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Thread: Against all Odds: The British Empire in World War Two

  1. #5901
    Lord of Slower-than-real-time El Pip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trekaddict View Post
    H&W, Vickers and the lot won't go bust any time soon.
    You under-estimate the ingenuity of the British trade union leadership. There is very little they cannot send bust when they put their minds to it.

    Excellent news from the Far East, things progress apace. Siam always struck me as fairly opportunist, so shouldn't be any problem there, I can easily see the leadership changing sides in the face of the Empire's advance. The French colonies however could go either way.

    If they think it's just a return to French rule, then is the Japanese alternative really any worse? Probably not, unless things have gotten really rough under Japanese management.

    Now if Britain says the area will get self-government ala the rest of the Empire that is a nice carrot and an improvement over Japanese (and indeed pre-war French) rule. But I doubt France will be all that pleased with losing Indochina and is setting of a massive rift with Paris worth the benefits in the East? I'd say yes, but British governments of all colours are prone to regrettable outburst of Francophilia so they may try and keep Paris happy.
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  2. #5902
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurt_Steiner View Post
    I always thought that the pic of the Commonwealth and Japanese officers when Singapore surrendered was misleading, because the Japs looked a bit haggard
    Well if The World at War is too be believed the Japs weren't expecting the British Surrender and were just about ready to give up themselves. Hence the haggered look. :P

  3. #5903
    British Unionist trekaddict's Avatar
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    zeppelin247&ViperhawkZ - Indeed the plan is to take South-East Asia first. Having British forces liberate places like Da Nang, Saigon and Dien-Bien-Phu has a certain ring to it.

    Kurt_Steiner - One more sign on how inadequate British leadership was...

    stevep - Well IOTL the Japanese had a remarkable talent of putting their feet in it and that hasn't changed here.

    El Pip - Well, H&W and Vickers aren't anything like British Leyland (Which btw won't exist ITTL) nor are they run by, with the word of one J. May, run by Communist Midlanders.

    What the British do with French Indochina is something I am mulling over for months now. There is a lot to say for either approach (and I intend to prevent anything like our Vietnam War happening there) so I might soon be forced to flip a coin.


    That said, I do believe that Churchill is far less of a Francophile ITTL. The French Army hasn't performed spectacularly well and neither has their Government been that co-operative. Giving them autonomy or a promise thereof would also be in keeping with British politics towards their own colonies.

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  4. #5904
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    Quote Originally Posted by trekaddict View Post
    zeppelin247&ViperhawkZ - Indeed the plan is to take South-East Asia first. Having British forces liberate places like Da Nang, Saigon and Dien-Bien-Phu has a certain ring to it.

    What the British do with French Indochina is something I am mulling over for months now. There is a lot to say for either approach (and I intend to prevent anything like our Vietnam War happening there) so I might soon be forced to flip a coin.


    That said, I do believe that Churchill is far less of a Francophile ITTL. The French Army hasn't performed spectacularly well and neither has their Government been that co-operative. Giving them autonomy or a promise thereof would also be in keeping with British politics towards their own colonies.
    Leaving Indochina in the hands of the weakened and angry France after the war is basically a guarantee of trouble in the future, and the S-E Asians would probably be less willing to fight someone with as good a track record as TTL Britain who is promising them independence from France and Japan. Whether in-universe politicians will find that to be the best route, I'm not sure. Especially if France-in-Exile has any sort of clout in the Allied decision-making process.
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  5. #5905
    British Unionist trekaddict's Avatar
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    I know! Hence my inability to actually decide the matter...
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  6. #5906
    well what's going to happen with the DEI btw I mean are they going to make any reforms

  7. #5907
    British Unionist trekaddict's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeppelin247 View Post
    well what's going to happen with the DEI btw I mean are they going to make any reforms
    Alas, that's still classified.
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  8. #5908
    Trekaddict

    With Thailand, OTL, from what I've read, the government were rather reluctant to jump either way and looking for support from Britain so they could reject Japanese demands, Unfortunately Britain was so thinly stretched and elements wished to avoid 'provoking' Japan that nothing was possible. Even so local elements at one of the Japanese landings in S Thailand put up stubborn resistance until ordered to surrender by Bangkok.

    I think its a bit different in the game with Thailand becoming a Japanese allies a couple of years before 41? However those with any information of how things are going are likely to be looking to jump ship. As you say the Japanese are probably well aware of such a danger. Furthermore, I don't think they 'did' allies, no matter what their propaganda said so the Thais probably have less leeway than the Hungarians and Romanians.

    However have to see how things develop.

    Steve

  9. #5909
    British Unionist trekaddict's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevep View Post
    Trekaddict
    I think its a bit different in the game with Thailand becoming a Japanese allies a couple of years before 41? However those with any information of how things are going are likely to be looking to jump ship. As you say the Japanese are probably well aware of such a danger. Furthermore, I don't think they 'did' allies, no matter what their propaganda said so the Thais probably have less leeway than the Hungarians and Romanians.

    However have to see how things develop.

    Steve
    This pretty much. The Thais will certainly try to change sides though it isn't sure they actually can do it.
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  10. #5910
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    I know you've stated that you would wish not to be involved in a Vietnam war ITTL but I had a fun thought today of a Bell Huey fleet swarming over a jungle canopy with the RAF insignia full of British soldiers armed with EM-2's and with door mounted Vickers machine guns.

    And now I don't know why but I felt compelled to share that image.

  11. #5911
    British Unionist trekaddict's Avatar
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    No Hueys because Bell, or what passes for it ITTL isn't available to the British ARmy and the EM-2 is a no-go because I dislike it's design.


    But indeed that picture is awesome.
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  12. #5912
    well obviously Britain is going to come out of this war with glory never seen before and its influence in Europe and Asia will be stronger than before and I wonder to try and deal with the Americans will they try to extend their influence in Latin America? Also just a random thought will there be a Falklands war ITTL

  13. #5913
    Lord of Slower-than-real-time El Pip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeppelin247 View Post
    well obviously Britain is going to come out of this war with glory never seen before and its influence in Europe and Asia will be stronger than before and I wonder to try and deal with the Americans will they try to extend their influence in Latin America? Also just a random thought will there be a Falklands war ITTL
    The British influence in South American was considerable in OTL, so TTL with the US gone Communist and the war not being so desperate (so presumably no fire sale of overseas assets) I can only imagine that influence being even greater.

    Which does lead to a couple of interesting questions, like whatever happened to the Mexican oil fields? With the US Commie I can only imagine the oil fields got force nationalised earlier, something I doubt the Empire took a warm view of. Did that end up with Mexico siding with their fellow hard lefties for protection? Or was the US so distracted internally the Royal Navy was able to shell the Mexicans into paying some compensation for their thievery?
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  14. #5914
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeppelin247 View Post
    Also just a random thought will there be a Falklands war ITTL
    Yes. Ohhhhhhh yessssss. Trek wrote a story about it on another site, though I forget the address. It's very spoiler heavy so I'll just leave it at that.
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  15. #5915
    what is the other site?

  16. #5916
    British Unionist trekaddict's Avatar
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    zeppelin247&El Pip - Mexico is already firmly in the American sphere, and thus the Royal Navy couldn't do much, however annoyed the senior service was.

    Save for British Honduras everything between the Rio Grande and the Panama Canal is basically all but in Commie hands already and the British know it, and even if they wanted to do something all resources (including that of MI6) are in the total War Effort.

    In South America proper on the other hand.... let's say everyone's favourite fictional Agent will find plenty employ down there.

    ViperhawkZ - Well, it did include the largest Carrier battle since "The War", a communist, massively American-supported Argentina and the worlds first (and last) Missile Submarine.

    zeppelin247 - Either in the members only Writers Section on alternatehistory.com, or on a blog called "Beyond all Odds", at both under the title of "Operation Tidespring".
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  17. #5917
    British Unionist trekaddict's Avatar
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    GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!


    I caught myself a Trojan (which wants me to believe that not only am I suddenly a T-Online customer but also that our authorities take fine payments through third party services and have a worse spelling than a five year old) that may or may not have eaten the next update. It was all nice and awesome, about the Polish Army liberating the first Polish Village!

    Thankfully I have a laptop to post this on and access the internet, but I'd rather grind for the 105mm gun in WoT than do emergency repairs on my desktop!

    If I have to set the entire system up again I will yell so loud...
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  18. #5918
    British Unionist trekaddict's Avatar
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    Yup, reinstallation of Windows is in order.....
    "That's right, Adolf. The British are coming." - The Eleventh Doctor
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  19. #5919
    Lt. General Raaritsgozilla's Avatar
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    Ew. But WoT is indeed a worthy distraction
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  20. #5920
    British Unionist trekaddict's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raaritsgozilla View Post
    Ew. But WoT is indeed a worthy distraction
    That it is. Once they add them I will get me some French and Japanese Tanks for teh lulz and then once they come a Mathilda II, A-34 Comet, the Tortoise and of course a Sexton.

    BTW, the advantage of one's kid brother having the same computer is being able to stea...borrow system driver CDs I lost ages ago... Up and running again. Things to do: VLC (for films and music), Open Office (for writing) and Trillian. (for chatting.)
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    "My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right." - Carl Schurz
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