+ Reply to Thread
Page 282 of 329 FirstFirst ... 182 207 232 257 272 280 281 282 283 284 292 307 ... LastLast
Results 5,621 to 5,640 of 6571

Thread: Against all Odds: The British Empire in World War Two

  1. #5621
    British Unionist trekaddict's Avatar
    200k clubHoI AnthologyArsenal of DemocracyDarkest HourHearts of Iron III
    Europa Universalis IV

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    The Dalek Empire
    Posts
    9,051
    Lord Strange Well we will see in the long run if this turns out to be a bad idea or not (Hitler is bound to take his rage out on everyone from RAF PoWs to Belgium) but two in-universe things made this possible: Firstly it's Mr. Gallipoli/invasion of the Balkans we are talking about and secondly the MoD figured that the opportunity to give the finger to Adolf whilst all of Germany was watching had to be used.


    Raaritsgozilla Originally my "German Fighter Pilot" Character was supposed to be Erich Hartmann, but he was discarded as both being clicheed and too young.
    "That's right, Adolf. The British are coming." - The Eleventh Doctor
    "My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right." - Carl Schurz
    Against all Odds: The British Empire in World War Two (ongoing) Last updated 09/22/14 Index - Index 2 - Index 3 - Knowledgebase -
    Inkwell Entry Visit the Dictionary!

    Possibly the world's most British German as awarded by El Pip here.

  2. #5622
    British Unionist trekaddict's Avatar
    200k clubHoI AnthologyArsenal of DemocracyDarkest HourHearts of Iron III
    Europa Universalis IV

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    The Dalek Empire
    Posts
    9,051
    Chapter 313




    “What about Shepard? He proved himself during Java.” the Canadian Prime Minister opined.

    Admiral Somerset, Royal Canadian Navy, thought about this proposal.

    “The People need a hero and Shepard is the best we've got, Sir.”


    “He is a tad junior, but the best Carrier Officer we have, and yes I do agree with your evaluation, Admiral.” King said.

    “I'll make the call. The Brits will certainly want to know about this.”

    And with that Captain Johnathan Jason Shepard, a native of Alberta, was bumped up on the promotion list and earmarked to command Battlegroup Able-Seven of Force A of the British Pacific Fleet.

    What made this force so special was that Able-Seven was a purely Canadian force. It's centrepiece, HMCS Vimy Ridge was Canada's first full-on Fleet Carrier and was about to be joined by HMCS Bonaventure, the first Carrier produced in Canada. The workers had worked triple shifts to get her ready, both to free up the slip for other construction (it was the largest slip in Canada and she had been in it for more than a year) and to get her out to the fleet.


    Admiral Cunningham was expecting a great counterattack of some sort to be carried out by the Japanese as soon as the weather was to their liking and he wanted every deck he could get. To that end and for political and propaganda reasons it had been decided that since the number of Canadian Cruisers and Destroyers was large enough, a purely Canadian Battlegroup was in order.

    Now it had needed a commander as it was supposed to operate independently when needed and because of this the Canadian Prime Minister and the Chief of Staff of the Royal Canadian Navy had met.


    The appropriate messages were made and the day after the Royal Air Force made the Austrian look ridiculous newly minted Rear Admiral Shepard was standing on the bridge wing of Her Majesty's Canadian Ship Vimy Ridge and felt the extra weight of his shoulder boards.

    That Vimy Ridge would be where he planted his flag, and he knew that her new Captain knew what he was doing but was he really ready for what was being dropped on him?

    Canada would be watching, as would the Admiral and the Admiralty in London and he had to perform.

    He took off the cap and ran a hand through his short ginger hair. Such was the lot of any Naval Officer.


    “Sir?”

    Shepard turned and saw an Able Seaman saluting to him.

    “What is it, Thompson?”

    “Message from the Bonaventure. She and her group are about to join us.”

    “Already?” Shepard asked himself more than anyone else.

    Bonaventure had barely finished Sea Trials and most of her pilots had been rushed through deck training at the centre north of Vancouver, but even so he hadn't really expected her for at least another two or three weeks. He would need to speak to her CO about it, but it was very likely that she was only half worked up and that her crew would need another two months of hard training before she could be considered really combat effective.


    Shepard stepped back inside the bridge and watched as the crew went about their work.

    “Admiral, message from Scout Four. They have Bonaventure, Spirit of Quebec and Spirit of Montreal at ten miles out.”

    “Acknowledge. And prepare a message to Bonaventure. Message reads: 'How did you get here so fast?'”

    “Aye, aye, Sir.”


    When Bonaventure lay a mile to starboard and Shepard saw through his binoculars that she was flying the new RCN Ensign and he had to admit, he approved of the design.

    But what he approved of even more were the ship itself, the crew going about their routines and the brand new and sparkling Seafires line up on her deck. An additional deck. However inexperienced, they would need it.



    ~**---**~



    When we left the small, out of the way supply base in Northern Australia I noted that Ian had insisted on buying several copies of the local rags. When I asked him about it he replied to me that considering we would spend at least a few months going back and forth there was no telling when we would next get some decent newspapers.

    Life on the Edgehill settled in during those days. We had learned her foibles and little eccentricities while crossing the Indian Ocean, but now things were about to get serious. Everyone had posted the last letters for at least several months, and I could see even then that Ian was missing his family at least as much as I missed my sister.

    We hopped from Island to Island, trying to keep out of everyone's way if possible though we were still spotted and queried by a scout from Bonaventure who luckily was convinced by our cover story of us being on our way to Port Moresby on New Guinea.



    Edgehill slowly moved through the northern perimeter of what were Allied-controlled territories on 5th February 1943. Felix had the deck tonight and he watched the arms of the clock creep towards 04:00. Two more hours then Takahashi would relieve him. Nip or not, the man had at least paid attention at Dartmouth, and that Academy was at least as good as Annapolis had been.

    The quiet night gave him ample opportunity to ponder the mission as he sipped on his tin cup of tea. (In Australia had had been surprised to find that he had lost his taste for Coffee)

    The holds of the ship were crammed full with ammunition, both for her own weapons and for the crates upon crates of small arms that had also been loaded. Why on earth the Australians had decided to keep producing the Owen Machine Carbine that had at one time been considered by the SAS instead of using the cheaper and easier to produce Sten like everybody else was something he didn't understand, but at least there had been lots of them.

    Going north to the Philippines wasn't what he had expected but such was the mission and hitting the Nips over the head from behind was the sort of work he had done in Europe against the Axis and truth be told, he considered himself to be quite good at it.

    Felix was sitting in the Captain's chair and inwardly complained not for the first time why the Japanese designed their merchant ships with so uncomfortable seats. Around him the ratings that made up the Bridge Crew tried to stay out of his way, they had learned long ago that at this time of night the Officer who was not only the brother in all but name but actually the CO's brother-in-law was grumpy but didn't bother anyone without cause.


    Felix at the same time heard the steps on the deck and could tell by the sound that it was Smith. The Ex-Marine or whatever he had been before the SBS carried himself in a way similar to what Felix had observed during the times he and Ian had worked with the SAS.

    “Permission to come to the Bridge?”

    “Granted.” Felix replied to the only semi-serious question.



    “What's the situation?” Smith asked. To get the information he needed he could just have entered the chart room without ever entering the bridge itself but Felix had quickly found out that for someone who was obviously hiding who he was Smith was remarkably chatty as long as things didn't touch his past or matters of duty.

    “We passed the three-mile limit of New Guinea an hour ago. Everything in front of us belongs to the sons of the sun.” Felix said with a sweeping gesture towards the forward bridge windows.”

    To his credit Smith didn't glance at the overhead pipes as if he expected a thousand Vals dive-bombing them.

    “Anything on the plot?”

    Felix glanced at the hatches to the bridge wings.

    “Lookouts report nothing.”

    Even though he knew the reasons for it, Felix deplored the lack of an RDF set that reduced them to lookouts. He shook his head as he realized how quickly the fleet had become used to and come to depend upon RDF.

    “Well then, I better get my men checked out on those Ozzie guns then.” Smith said and left the bridge again.

    What was the matter with that man? Felix couldn't help but wonder.





    +-+-+-+-+-

    Comments, questions, rotten Tomatoes?
    "That's right, Adolf. The British are coming." - The Eleventh Doctor
    "My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right." - Carl Schurz
    Against all Odds: The British Empire in World War Two (ongoing) Last updated 09/22/14 Index - Index 2 - Index 3 - Knowledgebase -
    Inkwell Entry Visit the Dictionary!

    Possibly the world's most British German as awarded by El Pip here.

  3. #5623
    Quote Originally Posted by trekaddict View Post
    “What about Shepard? He proved himself during Java.” the Canadian Prime Minister opined.

    Admiral Somerset, Royal Canadian Navy, thought about this proposal.

    “The People need a hero and Shepard is the best we've got, Sir.”


    “He is a tad junior, but the best Carrier Officer we have, and yes I do agree with your evaluation, Admiral.” King said.

    “I'll make the call. The Brits will certainly want to know about this.”
    Reminds me of a certain conversation about another Shepard. If this guy is anything like that, then victory is assured!
    Land of the Samurai - Character WritAAR of the Week | Of Their Own Accord - United States of North America AAR
    I, Alexei - WritAAR of the Week | Flight of the Eagle - German MDS AAR
    Spotlight ; United We Stand - European Union AAR - Favourite Narrative AAR { AARland Awards 2011 - Round 2 }

    Inducted into the Order of the Large and Intimidating Robert for I, Alexei : 31 - 1 - 2011
    TemplarComander's Cookie of Achievement

  4. #5624
    Pantomacatalasecesionanis ta

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Questing for the Black Shine...
    Posts
    17,992
    Blog Entries
    20
    It would be rather funny if Japan surrenders before Ian et al found an enemy ship
    "Pequeño Padawan Kurtizacoal, por qué me has salido tan cabrón?" - me dijo mi Maestro.
    Palo Dixit: posible Anticristo, vacalentacialanonanista, Culé y Salido que provoca manifas por donde pasa.
    Palo Dixit redux: Escatológico bipolar

    AARs en curso o acabados -Ongoing and finished HoI2 AARs-
    WritAAR of the Week:16-03-07/5-04-09/13-09-09/19-09-10/28-10-11 - Fan of the week 25-03-07/29-10-07/06-04-08/29-12-08/13-09-09 - Canonized 02-12-07 - Best Character WritAAR of the Week:03-04-09- Showcased 01-05-2010/10-12-2010 - Mi blog: Confesiones clandestinas: Crisis [Actualizado 25/10/2014]

  5. #5625
    Captain ViperhawkZ's Avatar
    Crusader Kings IIEU3 CompleteDivine WindFor the MotherlandHearts of Iron III
    HOI3: Their Finest HourHeir to the ThroneMagickaSemper FiVictoria 2
    Victoria II: A House Divided500k clubEuropa Universalis IV: Pre-order

    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Sault Canada
    Posts
    456
    Commander Shepard!
    “Whenever the Germans found the Canadian Corps coming into the line they prepared for the worst.”
    -British Prime Minister David Lloyd George

    1 Student
    Nationality: Anglo Canadian
    Religion: Atheist
    Ideology: Social Democratic
    Issues: Pro Military
    Militancy: 0 (+0)
    Consciousness: 9 (+1.63)

  6. #5626
    British Unionist trekaddict's Avatar
    200k clubHoI AnthologyArsenal of DemocracyDarkest HourHearts of Iron III
    Europa Universalis IV

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    The Dalek Empire
    Posts
    9,051
    TemplarComander Yes, it is of course an adaptation of the conversation between Ambassador Udina and Admiral Hackett at the beginning of Mass Effect 1. But alas, while Able-Seven will indeed kick some serious Japanese posterior, he's not Commander Shepard. After all there is no and won't be an HMCS Normandy.

    Kurt_Steiner Funny but unlikely.

    ViperhawkZ I am rebuilding my collection of ME1-ME2 imported saves that I lost when my System crashed and I had to wipe it. To get the maximum out of my Chars I began to frequent the Mass Effect wiki and not only found that Bioware is based in Alberta, Canada but also that both male and female Shepard are voiced by Canadians and are supposed to have a slight Canadian accent that totally escaped me as to me everyone north of the Mason-Dixon line sounds the same to me.

    That said, this Shepard is unrelated to that Shepard. They do share a name and both are Naval Officers, but there the similarities end.
    "That's right, Adolf. The British are coming." - The Eleventh Doctor
    "My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right." - Carl Schurz
    Against all Odds: The British Empire in World War Two (ongoing) Last updated 09/22/14 Index - Index 2 - Index 3 - Knowledgebase -
    Inkwell Entry Visit the Dictionary!

    Possibly the world's most British German as awarded by El Pip here.

  7. #5627
    Sergeant

    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Mission BC Canada
    Posts
    80
    trekaddict you know that canadians speak the most "generic" english in the world. which among other things leads to the americans poaching our news readers at every chance.

    seems you can also find the purest form of spoken french in the back country of quebec. fewest "foreign" phrases and words etc.

  8. #5628
    Captain ViperhawkZ's Avatar
    Crusader Kings IIEU3 CompleteDivine WindFor the MotherlandHearts of Iron III
    HOI3: Their Finest HourHeir to the ThroneMagickaSemper FiVictoria 2
    Victoria II: A House Divided500k clubEuropa Universalis IV: Pre-order

    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Sault Canada
    Posts
    456
    Quote Originally Posted by trekaddict View Post
    After all there is no and won't be an HMCS Normandy.
    No storming those particular beaches in this TL, eh? Shame. 'Cause if we named a ship after Vimy, then certainly Normandy is not unreasonable...
    “Whenever the Germans found the Canadian Corps coming into the line they prepared for the worst.”
    -British Prime Minister David Lloyd George

    1 Student
    Nationality: Anglo Canadian
    Religion: Atheist
    Ideology: Social Democratic
    Issues: Pro Military
    Militancy: 0 (+0)
    Consciousness: 9 (+1.63)

  9. #5629
    British Unionist trekaddict's Avatar
    200k clubHoI AnthologyArsenal of DemocracyDarkest HourHearts of Iron III
    Europa Universalis IV

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    The Dalek Empire
    Posts
    9,051
    Ehran What can I say, my experience with accents lies elsewhere.

    ViperhawkZ TTL there were others and will be other beaches to name Spaceships in epic SciFi RPGs after.
    "That's right, Adolf. The British are coming." - The Eleventh Doctor
    "My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right." - Carl Schurz
    Against all Odds: The British Empire in World War Two (ongoing) Last updated 09/22/14 Index - Index 2 - Index 3 - Knowledgebase -
    Inkwell Entry Visit the Dictionary!

    Possibly the world's most British German as awarded by El Pip here.

  10. #5630
    Monarchist Griffin.Gen's Avatar
    Arsenal of DemocracyHearts of Iron 2: ArmageddonCrusader Kings IIDarkest HourDeus Vult
    Europa Universalis 3Divine WindHearts of Iron IIIHeir to the ThroneEuropa Universalis III: In Nomine
    March of the EaglesEU3 Napoleon's AmbitionVictoria: RevolutionsSengokuVictoria 2
    CK2: Holy Knight500k clubEuropa Universalis IV

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Kaiserberg / Királyhegy
    Posts
    1,409
    What do you mean there won't be a HMCS Normandy? I'm really disappointed now, trek...

    ... Nah, I kid. I really love the reference. :'D

    Fan of the week 12/06/10, Thanks trekaddict!

  11. #5631
    Lord of Slower-than-real-time El Pip's Avatar
    Arsenal of DemocracyCrusader Kings IIDeus VultDivine WindHearts of Iron III
    Heir to the ThroneSemper FiSword of the Stars

    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Londonshire
    Posts
    4,821
    Blimey where did Canada hide that shipyard? Bonaventure's is going to be 30,000t standard load I'd guess, that's six times larger than anything Canada has ever built. Not to mention longer, wider and many other superlatives.

    The entire shipyard would have to have been built from scratch just for this job and that would be quite pricey, not to mention having to train up quite a few trades from scratch for all the odds and ends you get on large ships you don't have on smaller ones. Still this is uber-Canada so damn the expense hey?

    The Butterfly Effect: A British AAR - "An an insane project of terrifying detail". The finest slower-than-real-time AAR on the board. Updated 11th September Through adversity, to the sea(plane).

    Inevitable Defeat - Slovakia '44 - The award winning characters Tiso and Tuka attempt to save Slovakia from defeat and destruction. Winner of Two AARland Choice Comedy Awards - Round 4 2011 and Q2 2014. Critical Realisitic Security Advice! News! Hangovers! Just another day in Bratislava for T&T. Updated 14th September.

    Furious Vengeance - A 1944 UK AAR - My actual best work - Winner of the 2009 Iron HeAARt Award

    The other works

  12. #5632
    Captain ViperhawkZ's Avatar
    Crusader Kings IIEU3 CompleteDivine WindFor the MotherlandHearts of Iron III
    HOI3: Their Finest HourHeir to the ThroneMagickaSemper FiVictoria 2
    Victoria II: A House Divided500k clubEuropa Universalis IV: Pre-order

    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Sault Canada
    Posts
    456
    Well, if Canada has anything, it's coastline; sure they could find a location. It would be reasonable as Canada is probably expecting to build more Carriers in future (to go up against the American fleet) and with all the money sinking into the war, they can probably afford to sink a bit more.
    “Whenever the Germans found the Canadian Corps coming into the line they prepared for the worst.”
    -British Prime Minister David Lloyd George

    1 Student
    Nationality: Anglo Canadian
    Religion: Atheist
    Ideology: Social Democratic
    Issues: Pro Military
    Militancy: 0 (+0)
    Consciousness: 9 (+1.63)

  13. #5633
    British Unionist trekaddict's Avatar
    200k clubHoI AnthologyArsenal of DemocracyDarkest HourHearts of Iron III
    Europa Universalis IV

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    The Dalek Empire
    Posts
    9,051
    El Pip She was partially financed by the British who figured that it was cheaper than building it in Britain and then loaning it to the Canadians.

    The yard is located in the Halifax Shipyards and is the only berth in Canada that is even remotely large enough. Again, with quiet British aid and a lot of loaned specialits from Harland and Wolff whose job it alson was to train their own replacements.

    THe berth itself was build in the mid-30s to service 'large ships', i.e. to provide the RN with a yard large enough to take most of the British units on the other side of the Atlantic now that American yards were unavailable. Bonaventure is the first ship they built and she has been planned for damn near three years, almost immediately after the keel was laid for HMS Implacable herself.

    Admittedly I didn't think that up until I realized that a single-CV task Force would be pointless, but it does sort of make sense.


    Basically if a war between the Commonwealth and the Americans had broken out at the time the desicions were taken then the RN would have had at least one yard able to take ships along the lines of Warspite or Ark Royal. That pre-supposes that the Canadians would hold out long enough to be able to use the yard, but at the time this seemed likely as the American Army was a bloody shambles. So it's not that unlikely.


    ViperhawkZ Post-war the RCN will probably end up with duties similar to what the RN was for IOTL, i.e. Convoy protection most likely. Fleet Battles will be left to the RN.
    "That's right, Adolf. The British are coming." - The Eleventh Doctor
    "My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right." - Carl Schurz
    Against all Odds: The British Empire in World War Two (ongoing) Last updated 09/22/14 Index - Index 2 - Index 3 - Knowledgebase -
    Inkwell Entry Visit the Dictionary!

    Possibly the world's most British German as awarded by El Pip here.

  14. #5634
    Captain ViperhawkZ's Avatar
    Crusader Kings IIEU3 CompleteDivine WindFor the MotherlandHearts of Iron III
    HOI3: Their Finest HourHeir to the ThroneMagickaSemper FiVictoria 2
    Victoria II: A House Divided500k clubEuropa Universalis IV: Pre-order

    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Sault Canada
    Posts
    456
    Quote Originally Posted by trekaddict View Post
    ViperhawkZ Post-war the RCN will probably end up with duties similar to what the RN was for IOTL, i.e. Convoy protection most likely. Fleet Battles will be left to the RN.
    Don't get me wrong, I don't think a huge Canadian carrier fleet is likely. I'm saying that with two in the forties, the Canadians probably expect to build more.
    “Whenever the Germans found the Canadian Corps coming into the line they prepared for the worst.”
    -British Prime Minister David Lloyd George

    1 Student
    Nationality: Anglo Canadian
    Religion: Atheist
    Ideology: Social Democratic
    Issues: Pro Military
    Militancy: 0 (+0)
    Consciousness: 9 (+1.63)

  15. #5635
    Pantomacatalasecesionanis ta

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Questing for the Black Shine...
    Posts
    17,992
    Blog Entries
    20
    Silly sudden thought: Hitler must be raging mad because of the raid. He's going to want to take revenge at once...
    "Pequeño Padawan Kurtizacoal, por qué me has salido tan cabrón?" - me dijo mi Maestro.
    Palo Dixit: posible Anticristo, vacalentacialanonanista, Culé y Salido que provoca manifas por donde pasa.
    Palo Dixit redux: Escatológico bipolar

    AARs en curso o acabados -Ongoing and finished HoI2 AARs-
    WritAAR of the Week:16-03-07/5-04-09/13-09-09/19-09-10/28-10-11 - Fan of the week 25-03-07/29-10-07/06-04-08/29-12-08/13-09-09 - Canonized 02-12-07 - Best Character WritAAR of the Week:03-04-09- Showcased 01-05-2010/10-12-2010 - Mi blog: Confesiones clandestinas: Crisis [Actualizado 25/10/2014]

  16. #5636
    British Unionist trekaddict's Avatar
    200k clubHoI AnthologyArsenal of DemocracyDarkest HourHearts of Iron III
    Europa Universalis IV

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    The Dalek Empire
    Posts
    9,051
    He is, though I have yet to decide exactly what form that will take, or rather how I can write it without going against forum rules...
    "That's right, Adolf. The British are coming." - The Eleventh Doctor
    "My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right." - Carl Schurz
    Against all Odds: The British Empire in World War Two (ongoing) Last updated 09/22/14 Index - Index 2 - Index 3 - Knowledgebase -
    Inkwell Entry Visit the Dictionary!

    Possibly the world's most British German as awarded by El Pip here.

  17. #5637
    British Unionist trekaddict's Avatar
    200k clubHoI AnthologyArsenal of DemocracyDarkest HourHearts of Iron III
    Europa Universalis IV

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    The Dalek Empire
    Posts
    9,051
    Chapter 314


    4th February 1943



    Field Marshal Alexander, GOC Allied Forces Europe was bored to tears. Lieutenant Colonel Hackett, the head of his Operations and Planning department was a good planner and speaker, but almost seven hours of meetings could be wearisome, especially when one knew the plans that were being outlined by heart.

    That said, Hackett himself was not looking too fresh, but the voice of the Officer didn't show it.


    “To summarize Sirs,” Hackett said just as Alexander's attention focused on him again, “intelligence indicates that the deployments as outlined in section...”

    Alexander faded out again. Hackett had told him the almost exact same thing this morning and he knew that he wouldn't hear anything new for at least another thirty minutes.

    This particular meeting was an important one on the face of it, at least for the other Officers present. After all, the Allied campaign plan for 1943 was not something to be taken lightly, but Alexander, along with Generals Ritchie and Slim, Commanders of the 8th and 9th Armies and thus is two best Field Commanders knew this plan by heart. This didn't endear them to the commanders of the 5th, 6th, 10th and 11th Armies, but the 8th and 9th were the ones selected to conduct the assault on Vienna, not only by virtue of being the cream of the British Army but also because they were in the best position.

    They would not attack for another two months at least, but the attack on Nuremberg had worried him enough to move the meeting forward by two weeks. It might very well be that Hitler who reportedly was still ranting and raving occasionally almost a week later ordered some sort of early spring offensive.

    It even made some sort of sense, considering that the mud wouldn't come for at least another month, and Alexander wouldn't put it past the Austrian to order an immediate attack with no preparation at all. This just wouldn't do in the British Army, but these days there were few things that would surprise Alexander.

    The plan was simple in itself if looked at critically. In April when the worst of the mud had dried (at least in the lower reaches of Austria) 8th Army hugging the alpine slopes and the 9th farther south would go straight for Vienna.

    Rommel's counter-attack last year had driven any taste for intricate strategic or tactical manoeuvres out of the Allied High Command and thus it had been decided to just smash into the enemy lines and be done with it as quick as possible. The IGS had agreed, though for different reasons.

    In Aldershot the desire to get the war moving again had been the prime motivation, though Alexander suggested that there was some deeper issue at work. If anything, it would be good to break out into the European hinterland and get on with the bloody damn war without having to glue one eye to the Alps, half-expecting the unsporting enemy to come swarming down the apline passes.

    To that end both sides had long since blown them to Blightey and back, but he still worried. Having the Alps in the back was a problem all of it's own, considering that most, if not all of the supplies would have to move through Vienna until they were cleared. Not that it would be the first time the entire war effort depended on one harbour, and this time at least it were only the Northern Army Groups, the southern ones would be supplied through (and as far as possible from local factories in) Hungary and Romania.

    And then there was that Italian matter, the PM's newest hobby horse after an invasion of the Balkans. Now that this had been done with smashing success Churchill had immediately sought out another cause.


    But that was something that he wouldn't have to deal with for another few days.


    What would occupy his attentions and likely keep him away from a decent dinner were, as usual during at least one day in the first week of any month the French, reporting on their progress or lack thereof. While these days they were at least nominally under his command just to be part of the Allied supply infrastructure the French were de-facto fighting a parallel war in the Alps, and the best thing that could be said for it was that they were by now half-way to Marseilles from the Italian border and were at least tying down an increasing number of mostly German Forces.

    At the same time the French were by now almost totally reliant on British Equipment. Algeria, for all it's relative wealth in manpower[1] could not even provide small arms and ammunition for any sizeable Army. Due to this the French seemed to be slowly but surely come to understand that the Allies could do without them in a pinch, but they could not go on without the Allies. Alexander was convinced that the French would come to their senses eventually.


    ~**---**~




    After the surrender of King Victor Emmanuel III to the Allied Powers to prevent a German occupation of Rome the Kingdom of Italy just before Christmas 1941 the Italian Armed Forces were disbanded even faster than the Party and for more than a year Italy descended into a strange shadow status between existence and non-existence as a Nation. By virtue of their surrender the Italian Nation-state was not fully dismantled and rebuilt from the ground up as was later the case in Austria and elsewhere but still fell short of the status of Hungary, Romania and Bulgaria which had not only changed sides but begun to engage their former Allies on the field of Battle, thereby earning the right to keep their forces in the field.

    This was an option never really open to the Kingdom of Italy, by December 1941 the Regio Esercito had been reduced to little more than a shadow. The cream of the Italian Army had been destroyed by the whirlwind-campaign
    [2]the British and Allied Forces had conducted in Lybia and Ethopia, the Regia Marina had been sunk by an outnumbered and technically inferior British Mediterranean Fleet whose biggest advantage had been the British Old Empire Aircraft Carriers and crude RDF systems.


    In early 1942 the parts of Italy from Sicily up to and including Rome itself were handed back to the Italian Government, thus legitimizing it in the hands of the local populace, though the territories from a line a mile north of the Roman City limits up to the Gustav Line remained under Allied military Administration.

    To reorganize the Government along the lines 'strongly suggested' by the British, namely at the very least a parliamentary Republic if not a constitutional Monarchy along the British pattern the Italian administrative apparatus needed to be cleansed and any Government needed to be accepted and legitimized by the people. That this was only possible by some form of parliamentary democracy didn't even need to be discussed, but the King was hesitant to give up what remained of his powers.

    It was about the time the British entered the scene. Rumours about Italian attempts to fully re-establish the country had reached the ears of Field Marshal Alexander and by extension the political leaders of the Allied Pact in London and Algiers. It became clear quickly that whatever plans for post-war Italy that had existed before the unexpected fall of Fascist Italy had gone out the window.

    After a closed-doors meeting between Field Marshal Alexander, British Foreign Secretary Anthony Eden, the French Ambassador to Greece as the nearest French representative and three emissaries from the King's council. The Italians politely inquired under what circumstances Italy could regain full sovereignty in those areas not under Allied Administration or Axis occupation.

    Eden had conferred on this with Prime Minister Churchill and the French Government so he could state several deliberate and certain pre-conditions for a truly independent Italy: Firstly Italy would be allowed no Armed Forces whatever for as long as the European War lasted, something the French had insisted upon, secondly there would be a referendum on what form of Government the Italians wanted and thirdly Italy would renounce any territorial claims outside of 'core Italy' which was defined as all non-colonial territories before the annexation of Albania.

    But the biggest bomb was dropped when the French Emissary announced that the French Government would not accept any Government in which King Victor Emanuel III had any part, and insisted on this in spite of British and Italian efforts to convince them otherwise. This was news to the British and it has been speculated that it was part of a French effort to force either continued semi-occupation or a Republican Government on the Italian peninsula though this could never be really proven.

    Thus informed the Italian emissaries went back to the King who was informed of the situation. He was also informed that the French had insisted on his not being part.

    If the sources from inside the council can be taken at face value the King bade himself twenty-four hours to deliberate what he would do, if one believes the official French History of the war he fought tooth and nail against a Republican takeover, either way, on 11th May 1942 His Majesty King Victor Emanuel III of Italy abdicated in favour of his son who was at that time still recuperating from a would he had suffered in the final days of fighting around Taranto, using Radio Rome to send this message to the nation.


    Umberto II took the throne and the responsibilities mere hours later though there would not be an official coronation until 1943. As his first act the new King dropped all non-Italian titles (except for the Kingship of Armenia) and announced his intention to defer to the judgement of the Italians, no matter what they would eventually want to do.

    The plebiscite was held two months later on 5th July.


    Even though some of the most industrially active areas of Italy and a considerable part of the population where at the time either still occupied by the Axis or under Allied administration and thus barred from voting, the plebiscite eventually returned that 59% of the Italian people taking part wished to retain the monarchy under Umberto II. The circumstances of this would lead to a second plebiscite in 1946, though by then almost 78% supported the Monarchy much to the annoyance of the Republican Parties.


    It can be argued that the defeat in the war was the best thing that happened to Italy during the war, not only did the country suffer comparably little loss of life, the southern half of the country and several of the major northern cities also fell with little or no damage.

    That Italy also desired to re-enter the war on the Allied side however was not revealed to the British until January 1943.


    Excerpt from 'Twillight of Empire: A History of the Kingdom of Italy, Rome 1978[3]


    +-+-+-+-

    Comments, questions, rotten tomatoes?



    [1] I gave the French some additional off-map MP. When they surrendered they ironically had a higher manpowergrowth than when they didn't. I evened that out.


    [2] Remember, the term Lightning Warfare or Blitzkrieg was never coined ITTL.

    [3] The author is a convinced Italian Royalist. What he has written is correct in general though some of the details might be somewhat inaccurate...
    "That's right, Adolf. The British are coming." - The Eleventh Doctor
    "My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right." - Carl Schurz
    Against all Odds: The British Empire in World War Two (ongoing) Last updated 09/22/14 Index - Index 2 - Index 3 - Knowledgebase -
    Inkwell Entry Visit the Dictionary!

    Possibly the world's most British German as awarded by El Pip here.

  18. #5638
    Pantomacatalasecesionanis ta

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Questing for the Black Shine...
    Posts
    17,992
    Blog Entries
    20
    I like the fate of Italy. Perhaps in this way she might turn into a great nation.
    "Pequeño Padawan Kurtizacoal, por qué me has salido tan cabrón?" - me dijo mi Maestro.
    Palo Dixit: posible Anticristo, vacalentacialanonanista, Culé y Salido que provoca manifas por donde pasa.
    Palo Dixit redux: Escatológico bipolar

    AARs en curso o acabados -Ongoing and finished HoI2 AARs-
    WritAAR of the Week:16-03-07/5-04-09/13-09-09/19-09-10/28-10-11 - Fan of the week 25-03-07/29-10-07/06-04-08/29-12-08/13-09-09 - Canonized 02-12-07 - Best Character WritAAR of the Week:03-04-09- Showcased 01-05-2010/10-12-2010 - Mi blog: Confesiones clandestinas: Crisis [Actualizado 25/10/2014]

  19. #5639
    Trekaddict

    Good update and it highlights the difficulties TTL. Without the US and Soviets to add weight, especially since the Soviets are on the other side and the US less than friendly, its impractical for the Britain to go for the same unconditional surrender type conditions. Doubly so while the war is still ongoing, several former Axis allies have switched sides and there is probably a desire for more to do so. At the same time they need to de-fascifie the various states and seek to establish stable and civilised governments in places such as Italy, both for the local population and their own longer term interests.

    I wouldn't be surprised if Hitler did order some sort of revenge attack. Depending on the current strength of the Luftwaffe and development of the OTL V-weapons that could be by air or by land.

    Given the grand strategy rather than Vienna would it be better seeking to push through the Carpathians and into Poland say? It would mean an exposed salient but less difficult terrain and friendly population and would if successful mean that you could largely isolated Germany and Russia from each other. [Still learning slowly via AOD and don't know enough about the situation in you're campaign but while risky that might seem an option].

    Steve

  20. #5640
    Captain ViperhawkZ's Avatar
    Crusader Kings IIEU3 CompleteDivine WindFor the MotherlandHearts of Iron III
    HOI3: Their Finest HourHeir to the ThroneMagickaSemper FiVictoria 2
    Victoria II: A House Divided500k clubEuropa Universalis IV: Pre-order

    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Sault Canada
    Posts
    456
    I doubt that having a salient sticking out between the core enemy nations would be a terribly good maneuver - if you don't have your back to friendly territory, you'll need twice as many men, and a single weak point could trap thousands.
    “Whenever the Germans found the Canadian Corps coming into the line they prepared for the worst.”
    -British Prime Minister David Lloyd George

    1 Student
    Nationality: Anglo Canadian
    Religion: Atheist
    Ideology: Social Democratic
    Issues: Pro Military
    Militancy: 0 (+0)
    Consciousness: 9 (+1.63)

+ Reply to Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts