I am beginning to wonder, if you get another poor DIP monarch, if it might be worthwhile to force-vassalise Aragon, and then DA them later.
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Feedback time
comagoosie Someone in Europe will blob, it has to be built into your expectations
robou Italy is pretty good value for the BB, certainly better than a collection of random North African wool provinces.
safferli It's entirely possible you've caught me out, since I can't prove to myself what I think the answer iso
In the back of my mind I was thinking Louis Wu (Larry Niven's Ringworld) but it might be a Poul Anderson character (The sentiment sounds as if it could be Nicholas Van Rijn but the phrase doesn't sound quite right). My Sci Fi collection is currently in boxes in my parent's attic - all three thousand or so novels.
stnylan That's a good point I'm trying hard not to think about. A second poor diplo monarch would be a real nuisance as I want to take the diplomatic route with Portugal, Sicily and Aragon.
Enewald I've just realised that Aragon was at war when I trying for the alliance there, diplomatic endeavours go better when the target is at peace. I should have paid more attention to the detail.
Thanks to everyone who has viewed. Please comment, even if only to say why you don't particularly like it, I'm sure my writing and style can improve.
The pace will slow once the holiday weekend is over but I certainly hope to manage three updates a week.
comagoosie Someone in Europe will blob, it has to be built into your expectations
robou Italy is pretty good value for the BB, certainly better than a collection of random North African wool provinces.
safferli It's entirely possible you've caught me out, since I can't prove to myself what I think the answer is
oIn the back of my mind I was thinking Louis Wu (Larry Niven's Ringworld) but it might be a Poul Anderson character (The sentiment sounds as if it could be Nicholas Van Rijn but the phrase doesn't sound quite right). My Sci Fi collection is currently in boxes in my parent's attic - all three thousand or so novels.
stnylan That's a good point I'm trying hard not to think about. A second poor diplo monarch would be a real nuisance as I want to take the diplomatic route with Portugal, Sicily and Aragon.
Enewald I've just realised that Aragon was at war when I trying for the alliance there, diplomatic endeavours go better when the target is at peace. I should have paid more attention to the detail.
Thanks to everyone who has viewed. Please comment, even if only to say why you don't particularly like it, I'm sure my writing and style can improve.
The pace will slow once the holiday weekend is over but I certainly hope to manage three updates a week.
Update 7
There are many ways of looking at this, for example it’s worth an extra 18 ducats a year census tax or 5% better conversion chances. I prefer to think of it as positive proof of diplomatic failure, with Portugal annexed this wouldn’t have happened.
Berber accepted
A point to merrick for seeing this coming.
01/01/1487 A year of diplomacy, gifts are sent to Sicily, relations +11 to 68 and annexation is requested of Portugal. BB is 2.34 and will all be gone in 3 years – 0BB would be another sign of things going badly. To no great surprise Portugal rejects, I’ll keep on trying. Also troop numbers are being built up. If Portugal does accept I’ll suddenly be very exposed.
12/10/1487 Mamluks annex Tripoli. New neighbours, well that’s always a worry isn’t it. What if they like loud music and wild parties with say 30 thousand guests spilling over into my backyard?
28/12/1487 Conversion of Fez fails, again.
Relations with Portugal are back up to +183 – that’s take 4 diplomats and 85 ducats. BB is 1.52.
01/01/1488 Slider move, I’m now fully narrowminded, even Angelina Jolie wouldn’t tempt me to stray (Opinions on the value of this particular outcome are mixed).
15/02/1488 England offer alliance, which I accept. Relations are 0 with no RM. I forgot to take a screenie because some sandwiches and a cup of tea turned up at the same time.
01/10/1488 BB falls to 0.93, Portugal is now ‘Maybe’.
Have it! I might have a celebratory small sherry, I’m so happy I can even face the prospect of spending quality time with my girlfriend (You know, watching TV you don’t like).
Portugal annexed
BB is 11.93 – I’m now Papal Controller as a result of Portuguese activity, BB reduction is -1.05 a year
I've gained 11BB but i can only see 9 provinces. So where are the other provinces? Well I’ve got some colonies showing up on the outliner, time to check the tax records. Always trust the taxman even if the mapmakers appear clueless :rofl:
The new lands - including the 'hidden' bits
03/11/1488 Sicily DOWs Tuscany, I dishonour – I don’t want Stab costs to get away from me.
In the next few months I get alliance offers from Corsica, Lithuania, Riga, Naxos, Pommerania, Sweden and Genoa. No thanks, I’m waiting for Aragon to finish fighting in Sicily’s war then I’ll try there again. I still want a high diplo King even if Juan V has come good in the end.
The new colonies
There are taxpayers out there and I’m going to find them. I’ve had to recruit an explorer and now my fleet will sail to Brazil pick up my colonial cavalry, return to New England, team up with a conquistador and start poking around.
30/12/1490 Gafsa converts
01/01/1491 Conversion in Ifni fails
01/04/1491 Aragon, now at peace, rejects another alliance proposal. The Aragonese Regency Council is A/D/M 6/9/8, I want one of those!
This is what I get instead…
Juana
Update 7
There are many ways of looking at this, for example it’s worth an extra 18 ducats a year census tax or 5% better conversion chances. I prefer to think of it as positive proof of diplomatic failure, with Portugal annexed this wouldn’t have happened.
Berber accepted
A point to merrick for seeing this coming.
01/01/1487 A year of diplomacy, gifts are sent to Sicily, relations +11 to 68 and annexation is requested of Portugal. BB is 2.34 and will all be gone in 3 years – 0BB would be another sign of things going badly. To no great surprise Portugal rejects, I’ll keep on trying. Also troop numbers are being built up. If Portugal does accept I’ll suddenly be very exposed.
12/10/1487 Mamluks annex Tripoli. New neighbours, well that’s always a worry isn’t it. What if they like loud music and wild parties with say 30 thousand guests spilling over into my backyard?
28/12/1487 Conversion of Fez fails, again.
Relations with Portugal are back up to +183 – that’s take 4 diplomats and 85 ducats. BB is 1.52.
01/01/1488 Slider move, I’m now fully narrowminded, even Angelina Jolie wouldn’t tempt me to stray (Opinions on the value of this particular outcome are mixed).
15/02/1488 England offer alliance, which I accept. Relations are 0 with no RM. I forgot to take a screenie because some sandwiches and a cup of tea turned up at the same time.
01/10/1488 BB falls to 0.93, Portugal is now ‘Maybe’.
Have it! I might have a celebratory small sherry, I’m so happy I can even face the prospect of spending quality time with my girlfriend (You know, watching TV you don’t like).
Portugal annexed
BB is 11.93 – I’m now Papal Controller as a result of Portuguese activity, BB reduction is -1.05 a year
I've gained 11BB but i can only see 9 provinces. So where are the other provinces? Well I’ve got some colonies showing up on the outliner, time to check the tax records. Always trust the taxman even if the mapmakers appear clueless :rofl:
The new lands - including the 'hidden' bits
03/11/1488 Sicily DOWs Tuscany, I dishonour – I don’t want Stab costs to get away from me.
In the next few months I get alliance offers from Corsica, Lithuania, Riga, Naxos, Pommerania, Sweden and Genoa. No thanks, I’m waiting for Aragon to finish fighting in Sicily’s war then I’ll try there again. I still want a high diplo King even if Juan V has come good in the end.
The new colonies
There are taxpayers out there and I’m going to find them. I’ve had to recruit an explorer and now my fleet will sail to Brazil pick up my colonial cavalry, return to New England, team up with a conquistador and start poking around.
30/12/1490 Gafsa converts
01/01/1491 Conversion in Ifni fails
01/04/1491 Aragon, now at peace, rejects another alliance proposal. The Aragonese Regency Council is A/D/M 6/9/8, I want one of those!
This is what I get instead…
Juana
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Diplomacy 6 - it could be better, but mostly it could be a lot worse. Perhaps she'll manage to ensare Aragon for you.
Good going taking Portugal though.
Good going taking Portugal though.
PrawnStar said:
1- It was luck of the draw whether Portugal accepted annexation at any one time.
2- By the way, perhaps it would be a good strategy to blockade the Ottoman Empire? If you control the Sea of Mamara, between you and Austria destroying them would be a simple task.
Feedback time
stnylan Diplo 6 isn't great agreed but I'm quite a bit bigger than Aragon so that should be enough. As for Diplovasselising England, I'll just have to pray to the Gods of the RNG.
Enewald Portuguese colonies have a Castilian settler on the way as a matter of priority - a point to bear in mind is that if the colony becomes a city in the first twenty five years you'll get the RR due to the residual nationalism.
robou You may have noticed I was quite pleased at that point
comagoosie Glad you liked the line!
Carinthium Agreed it's luck of the draw but the Diplo rating of your monarch (Along with your BB) is a huge influence. Quite simply I believe that the annexations of both Navarre and Portugal would have occurred several years earlier and the BB cost would have been paid down faster.
Against the Ottos - Blockading the straits is a good idea but I'm poor at naval war - I keep forgetting fleets and losing them to attritiono. I don't expect to fight the Ottos anytime soon - experience suggests that my 'No Turboannex' house rule will mean I need to fight them in the region of 15 times once the BB wars start.
stnylan Diplo 6 isn't great agreed but I'm quite a bit bigger than Aragon so that should be enough. As for Diplovasselising England, I'll just have to pray to the Gods of the RNG.
Enewald Portuguese colonies have a Castilian settler on the way as a matter of priority - a point to bear in mind is that if the colony becomes a city in the first twenty five years you'll get the RR due to the residual nationalism.
robou You may have noticed I was quite pleased at that point
comagoosie Glad you liked the line!
Carinthium Agreed it's luck of the draw but the Diplo rating of your monarch (Along with your BB) is a huge influence. Quite simply I believe that the annexations of both Navarre and Portugal would have occurred several years earlier and the BB cost would have been paid down faster.
Against the Ottos - Blockading the straits is a good idea but I'm poor at naval war - I keep forgetting fleets and losing them to attrition
o. I don't expect to fight the Ottos anytime soon - experience suggests that my 'No Turboannex' house rule will mean I need to fight them in the region of 15 times once the BB wars start.The benefit would be that you could allow Catholic Austria to make gains in the Balkans, prevent the Ottomans from getting as far as Vienna as they often do, and simply do so by stationing a large enough fleet in the Sea of Mamara and landing troops on the weaker side.
Carinthium The Otto's aren't a big issue - they are in a world of pain with Persia in Anatolia. Austria is Catholic now but who knows how they might stray. Also they probably won't convert the Orthodox and Muslim provinces - so few AI countries do much in the way of conversions.
Of course the real reason not to worry is that I'm going to take it all myself! Sauron mode on LOL
Update probably tomorrow, the text is ready but the screenies need uploading and an old friend who only makes it over from New York once a year just rang up to say he's on his way round.
Of course the real reason not to worry is that I'm going to take it all myself! Sauron mode on LOL
Update probably tomorrow, the text is ready but the screenies need uploading and an old friend who only makes it over from New York once a year just rang up to say he's on his way round.
Update 8
09/04/1491 Aragon offers a Royal Marriage, accepted relations to +184
10/04/1491 Venice warns Aragon. This is interesting; an Aragonese/Venetian War opens Italy up for diplomatic realignment. Hopefully the screenshot makes that clear, both Ancona and Siena are Aragonese and Tuscany is an Aragonese Vassel. Mantua is a Venetian Vassel.
Italy
29/04/1491 Aragon enters a Military Alliance with Tuscany, three days before I can send another diplomat
01/05/1491 Production 4 – I’m ahead of time by 4 years but Production 5 is only 11 months away so I’ll keep going.
02/05/1491 Royal Marriage with Sicily relations to +49
03/06/1491 Sicily offers an alliance – accepted, relations at +64. Gifts cost 10.4 ducats and they have a diplo 3 King
Burgundy declares war on England
I honour the call hopefully (that’s a word I fear may get used a lot soon) I won’t actually have to do too much fighting.
09/08/1491 Sicily gets a new King; this one is also diplo 3!
Algiers declares!
More War – naughty of them – BB is only 8.80 and falling at 1.25 a year right now, yes 1.25 a year!
10/10/1491 Austria accepts White Peace with England – Alliance leader to Alliance leader – my nine galleys sank two Austrian galleys in the Med. The explorer has a zero manoeuvre rating but three for shock
Sicily drags me into another war
Another minor war – the stability drop is unwelcome but judged a diplomatic necessity.
17/02/1492 Morocco is annexed – BB at 11.28
01/03/1492 Production 5
02/04/1492 Venetian troops storm Savoy and Sicily as alliance leader vasselises. This makes Sicily even more valuable as a vassel – money is needed for the diplomatic offensive.
03/05/1492 Royal Marriage with England, a diplomat to Sicily produced a 2.4 point improvement in relations – wasteful, diplomacy works better in peace time.
08/05/1492 Peace, cores and cash. Unlike Morocco I have no core on Algiers; the BB cost to annex is too steep. I only annexed Morocco because my BB is falling so fast and I have no vassels right now.
Peace in North Africa
Gains and technological progress.
Key relations, Aragon +174, Sicily +68 and England +13
16/07/1492 Aragon gets a new king – diplo 9! Relations go to +199 after a new RM.
28/12/1492 Conversion of Kabylia fails.
01/06/1493 Production 6, Stability recovery next (+1 to +2)
02/01/1494 Ifni is converted
18/01/1494 Relations with Sicily are raised to +200
04/03/1494 Another new King in Sicily – this one is diplo 4, a vasselisation attempt is still on.
02/04/1494 Sicily rejects vasselisation, relations now +170
06/11/1494 Relations back to +192, 4 diplomats at 11.2 each!
Sicily accepts vasselisation
01/03/1495 Aragon still isn’t interested in an alliance.
Here’s a tease of a screenshot – what have I found?
Update 8
09/04/1491 Aragon offers a Royal Marriage, accepted relations to +184
10/04/1491 Venice warns Aragon. This is interesting; an Aragonese/Venetian War opens Italy up for diplomatic realignment. Hopefully the screenshot makes that clear, both Ancona and Siena are Aragonese and Tuscany is an Aragonese Vassel. Mantua is a Venetian Vassel.
Italy
29/04/1491 Aragon enters a Military Alliance with Tuscany, three days before I can send another diplomat
01/05/1491 Production 4 – I’m ahead of time by 4 years but Production 5 is only 11 months away so I’ll keep going.
02/05/1491 Royal Marriage with Sicily relations to +49
03/06/1491 Sicily offers an alliance – accepted, relations at +64. Gifts cost 10.4 ducats and they have a diplo 3 King
Burgundy declares war on England
I honour the call hopefully (that’s a word I fear may get used a lot soon) I won’t actually have to do too much fighting.
09/08/1491 Sicily gets a new King; this one is also diplo 3!
Algiers declares!
More War – naughty of them – BB is only 8.80 and falling at 1.25 a year right now, yes 1.25 a year!
10/10/1491 Austria accepts White Peace with England – Alliance leader to Alliance leader – my nine galleys sank two Austrian galleys in the Med. The explorer has a zero manoeuvre rating
but three for shock Sicily drags me into another war
Another minor war – the stability drop is unwelcome but judged a diplomatic necessity.
17/02/1492 Morocco is annexed – BB at 11.28
01/03/1492 Production 5
02/04/1492 Venetian troops storm Savoy and Sicily as alliance leader vasselises. This makes Sicily even more valuable as a vassel – money is needed for the diplomatic offensive.
03/05/1492 Royal Marriage with England, a diplomat to Sicily produced a 2.4 point improvement in relations – wasteful, diplomacy works better in peace time.
08/05/1492 Peace, cores and cash. Unlike Morocco I have no core on Algiers; the BB cost to annex is too steep. I only annexed Morocco because my BB is falling so fast and I have no vassels right now.
Peace in North Africa
Gains and technological progress.
Key relations, Aragon +174, Sicily +68 and England +13
16/07/1492 Aragon gets a new king – diplo 9! Relations go to +199 after a new RM.
28/12/1492 Conversion of Kabylia fails.
01/06/1493 Production 6, Stability recovery next (+1 to +2)
02/01/1494 Ifni is converted
18/01/1494 Relations with Sicily are raised to +200
04/03/1494 Another new King in Sicily – this one is diplo 4, a vasselisation attempt is still on.
02/04/1494 Sicily rejects vasselisation, relations now +170
06/11/1494 Relations back to +192, 4 diplomats at 11.2 each!
Sicily accepts vasselisation
01/03/1495 Aragon still isn’t interested in an alliance.
Here’s a tease of a screenshot – what have I found?
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Well, it's not a bad thing in itself (it also gives you manpower from the Berber provinces), and with luck you'll keep it long enough to help with the conversions.PrawnStar said:
Well done on finally landing Portugal. Do they still have the bug where you don't get to see the colonies you just annexed?
Feedback time
Enewald Scottish colonies have potential, they're allied to France, who has a CB on my ally England - so I might get the chance to seize them.
robou & stnylan Thanks, I much prefer diplomacy for 'in religion' expansion - it's more efficient.
merrick It's true, Berber as an accepted culture does help, I'd like to get the conversions before too long as I'll lose the accepted cultures in time.
Portugal, yes there were some unknown provinces after the DA, sorry I thought I'd mentioned that I'll go back and tweak the post.
comagoosie That particular succession war was very silly, an OPM against Venice, Aragon and Castile. I did absolutely nothing, I'd like Sicily to DA and gain the province before I DA Sicily.
Update coming shortly...
Enewald Scottish colonies have potential, they're allied to France, who has a CB on my ally England - so I might get the chance to seize them.
robou & stnylan Thanks, I much prefer diplomacy for 'in religion' expansion - it's more efficient.
merrick It's true, Berber as an accepted culture does help, I'd like to get the conversions before too long as I'll lose the accepted cultures in time.
Portugal, yes there were some unknown provinces after the DA, sorry I thought I'd mentioned that I'll go back and tweak the post.
comagoosie That particular succession war was very silly, an OPM against Venice, Aragon and Castile. I did absolutely nothing, I'd like Sicily to DA and gain the province before I DA Sicily.
Update coming shortly...