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Thread: Current Patch Information - 1.0.4.15 BETA

  1. #361
    Sergeant Michlo's Avatar

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    Nothing has changed, mate, no. I've got 4GB of RAM (until I can get my other 4 installed and working) and no other applications running besides my Avast anti-virus.
    Lord Michlo
    ~ Founder and protector of Clan Walker ~

  2. #362
    well I've only 1GB of memory and I have visual studio plus tons of other crap running at the same time and I couldn't reproduce the problem. However I did notice your attack fleet couldn't defeat 3 wimpy starbases. It turns out there's some bugs in the way electronics work--especially gravity wells--that was causing everything to miss. I've adjusted the way electronic effects are applied to fix the problem. I suppose it is conceivable that all those shots flying around and not hitting was consuming extra memory on your computer though I don't know how since LEI was only taking about 600MB on my computer...

    BTW did you know you had changed the difficulty level of the game you are playing?

    I'm uploading a new version in a few minutes...
    Current developer of Lost Empire: Immortals patches

  3. #363
    What are the differences between the AI levels? I.e. does a "very hard" AI get some bonus modifiers (research x2 or something similar that would make it better without the AI being more strategic)?

  4. #364
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sotho Tal Ker
    What are the differences between the AI levels? I.e. does a "very hard" AI get some bonus modifiers (research x2 or something similar that would make it better without the AI being more strategic)?
    1.0.4.4 changelog
    This patch has a completely reworked AI. The AI should now provide for challenging computer opponents.
    “Very Easy” and “Easy” computer opponents use the old AI.
    “Normal” opponents use the new AI but get no special bonuses or penalties
    “Hard” opponents use the new AI and get bonuses to scanner/fuel range, resource production, ship construction speed.
    “Very Hard” opponents use the new AI and get large bonuses to scanner/fuel range, resource production, ship construction speed. “Very Hard” opponents should be very difficult to defeat.



  5. #365
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    Quote Originally Posted by bman654
    MAM's & FI/BO - they can be increased. But for technical reasons, AI's *want* level-1 MAM's and level-1 weapons. If you increase the MAM level requirement, AI's will pick the fastest research path that will get them level-1 MAM's. There's nothing really wrong with this. It is just a slight inefficiency in the early AI gameplay.
    That doesn't make sense. What's it gonna do, mount MAMs on patrols? I never really liked it that you can mount MAMs and FI/BO Bays on ships smaller than frigates. Maybe this could be implemented, and the AI fixed to act accordingly?
    There are quite a few ineficiencies in the early AI. For example, it could use the colony ship to explore too. I think it also recruits battalions sometimes right in the 1st turn, it's really bad because it's hampering research and system development (especially with the 5 pop cost!). They're researching Nano Weaponry and high pressure storage in the 3rd turn or so, which is also a waste of research and slows down development. I've also seen it research Bureaucracy to level 3, which again is a waste - researching it early is good but in steps of 5, the increased efficiency of leaders is not worth it early on.


    There's no real strong reason to spend coding time validating designs of savegames for new mod values. Once you work out good mod values you should just start a new game.
    Well, last night I started a game with my modified files and I had made some serious changes to the colonization module. Turns out, my initial colony ship (default large) started with 150 pop, which was more than what my homeworld had I did not have to pay for any of it though, so I just got a free very developed system to start with.
    BTW, after using that colony ship to colonize a system, I could not delete the design, it kept telling me I had active designs of that kind - I didn't, the one I had was used up, and it was illegal so I couldn't really build more.


    I don't recall seeing anything about PM's not targeting patrols. But a battle only occurs if one of the fleets present is set to an offensive action (bombard,intercept,invade,eliminate). If everyone is set to Move then no battle occurs. And planet's don't have a setting so they can't force a battle.
    The minor was blockading my system (no construction, no reproduction, etc.). In the Battleview they were heading towards the planet, but that doesn't mean they actually attacked it. They had no planetary weapons anyway.


    Your crash has nothing to do with saving the game.
    I also had a crash. One day everything was working fine (4.13), the next I got the crashes, the next everything was fine again. Odd. I had nothing else running (except for Windows Explorer and Notepad). I had just started the game. There was nothing that justified it really.

    ----

    Some more stuff (4.13):


    MISC tab, CorruptionMax description should read between 0 and 100%, not 0 and 1.

    Is it possible to swap Race Abilities between different races? I want to swap the Horde's Garbage Consumers with the Tritons' Tough Skin. If possible, how can I do that? This seems to be hardcoded, which is a shame. There's no real race customization...

    The Frigate in the Triton Ancient Fleet has an EMP Ray. That component shouldn't be available to the Tritons, only to the Crystals.
    The Battleship also has an EMP Ray, which with the Battleship's -50% Electronics class mod means its efficiency is 0.5. What exactly does that mean, in terms of functionality of the device?
    Also, I'm not sure *1* Combat Drive in a Battleship is really very useful.

    Is it intentional that starmap explosions are no longer showing? For quite some time now. They helped pinpointing battle locations.

    Diplomats are all screwed up. If I set them all to one race, I'll get Influence Gain All (+1 for each Diplomat) for that race instead of their combined Influence Gain Single values - so IGA is actually worse than IGS in that it gives me X Influence to one race instead of X Influence to *every* race (where X is the # of Diplomats). That's not how it is meant to work.

    Battleview options (HP bars, damage display, ship role) could be remembered when loading a savegame.

    I think I got a strange behavior with te Immortal Artifact event (Thari Knowledge Gate). It seemed to show in the News window as a news headline the turn *before* it showed in the starmap's news panel. I might try to reproduce.


    The other day I tried a savegame from someone I can't recall, was posted to this thread a few days ago. There was a strange thing there. The Alkiths and the Megalanians were at war, but the Alkiths were Friendly towards the Megalanians, and the megalanians were Neutral towards the Alkiths...
    I also wondered why the Megalanians didn't expand to the lower part of their area. It was a Pinwheel galaxy IIRC.
    Last edited by .Iceman; 07-07-2008 at 10:42.

  6. #366
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michlo
    I'm actually feeling a little disheartened about the game now, I must say.

    Not only because of most of what Iceman pointed out, some of which I've wondered myself but also because it seems we are striving for that "one perfect way to play the game" and that is not what I want from a game.
    Hehe, not really, like it has already been pointed out.
    It's a shame though that the AI doesn't use Diplomacy (and that it is whacked, so that at least the human player could use it - and multiplayer games too). Or shields (if they were actually balanced).
    There is a lot of balancing to be done still. I'm addressing a lot of stuff on a mod I'm working on, I might post the changes I made some time. Unfortunately some things cannot be modded, like the (crappy) race abilities.
    With some improvements to key areas of the game like weapons, electronics, star bases, etc this game could really be awesome. Still it's a great game though.

    Using smaller galaxies is good. I never really liked the huge scope of the game. I told that to Pollux when beta started, and a few weeeks later they changed the default galaxy from a 5k spiral to a 600 star galaxy - don't know how relevant that is
    It's cool to play a gigantic galaxy once in a while, I just don't think it's "efficient". I like it controlled and personalized, but that's just me.

  7. #367
    That doesn't make sense. What's it gonna do, mount MAMs on patrols? I never really liked it that you can mount MAMs and FI/BO Bays on ships smaller than frigates. Maybe this could be implemented, and the AI fixed to act accordingly?
    Honestly it doesn't have to make sense to you. You didn't have to code it. There's a lot of interrelated moving parts in the AI code.

    There are quite a few ineficiencies in the early AI
    Yep. AI is still inefficient. There's alot more that can be done to improve it. But as it plays now, it whips Michlo's butt everytime. That means it provides a meaningful challenge to the average non min-maxing player. This is a marked improvement over the original. The min-maxxers can get a challenge by playing at a harder difficulty. I've already put tons of my free time into this and don't feel like continuing to tweak the AI ad infinitum. As far as High Pressure Storage goes - the AI's primary weakness is that it does not understand shapes...the shape of the galaxy or the shape of the nearby star systems spirals or whatever. A consequence of this is that it does very poorly when it is limited by fuel range or when its fuel range envelope is not essentially a big circle, ie there are places inside the fuel range territory that you cannot travel directly between without leaving fuel range for part of the trip. Thus the AI puts a high value on High Pressure Storage.

    I did not have to pay for any of it though, so I just got a free very developed system to start with.
    You mean to say that every empire got a free very developed system to start with.

    MISC tab, CorruptionMax description should read between 0 and 100%, not 0 and 1.
    Excel stores 0%-100% as 0-1

    The Frigate in the Triton Ancient Fleet has an EMP Ray. That component shouldn't be available to the Tritons, only to the Crystals.
    Yeah that's a bug.

    The Battleship also has an EMP Ray, which with the Battleship's -50% Electronics class mod means its efficiency is 0.5. What exactly does that mean, in terms of functionality of the device?
    Electronics mod has no practical effect on the EMP Ray

    Is it intentional that starmap explosions are no longer showing? For quite some time now. They helped pinpointing battle locations.
    We've been over this one before. AFAIK you are the only one that is not seeing them. Maybe someone else can speak up on the subject. FYI you know you can click on the news item and it will center the map on the battle right?

    Is it possible to swap Race Abilities between different races?
    You should be able to just change the column heading on the Bonus table in the DATA_RACES worksheet for each race to the ability you want. As long as the new ability you choose is spelled right and exists in the DATA_RACEBONUS sheet then it should work.
    Current developer of Lost Empire: Immortals patches

  8. #368
    Rōnin and Caput lupinum Anguille's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bman654
    Maybe someone else can speak up on the subject. FYI you know you can click on the news item and it will center the map on the battle right?
    I have seen them in my last games...at least the ones i've been playing the last 2 weeks...

    Cheers
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  9. #369
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    Quote Originally Posted by bman654
    You mean to say that every empire got a free very developed system to start with.
    Yes, the difference being I can choose an Inhabitable (to get the 150 pop instead of 75+), good system to colonize
    But I was just commenting, I wasn't saying it was an advantage to the human player.

    Excel stores 0%-100% as 0-1
    My point was that a "distracted" person might not use it correctly. That's all. It's not really important, just an observation. It's not like it's really hard to "fix"

    We've been over this one before. AFAIK you are the only one that is not seeing them. Maybe someone else can speak up on the subject. FYI you know you can click on the news item and it will center the map on the battle right?
    I did point out some of your snapshots where your battles did not produce an explosion though. Those you posted somewhere some time ago.
    And yes, I know that, but I might not want to actually go there, just locate the site visually. But anyway, not that important, if it's in fact only happening to me.


    You should be able to just change the column heading on the Bonus table in the DATA_RACES worksheet for each race to the ability you want. As long as the new ability you choose is spelled right and exists in the DATA_RACEBONUS sheet then it should work.
    Thanks! I'll give it a try.

  10. #370
    yeah I never replied but my snapshots did have the explosions. They are just hard to see when not animated since they are pretty small.
    Current developer of Lost Empire: Immortals patches

  11. #371
    Yup, I still see explosions where the fights happens.

    If you can't see them as well, maybe someone out there can figure a way to double the size of the explosion graphics so you can see better. I will admit, they are not very big, then again, I'm playing this game a lot more now, and mostly its in a more zoomed out mode.

  12. #372
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    Maybe that's it, I'll give it a try. They used to be huge. They even slowed the machine down considerably. Maybe they scaled them down because of that, and I don't notice them anymore...


    You should be able to just change the column heading on the Bonus table in the DATA_RACES worksheet for each race to the ability you want. As long as the new ability you choose is spelled right and exists in the DATA_RACEBONUS sheet then it should work.
    It worked, thanks!



    I got a new crash with 4.15...
    Could the crashes be related to trying to load a savegame that used a galaxy that was deleted from the Galaxies folder? Or if the bitmaps that were added to the patches were deleted? Just a thought, can't think of anything else.


    Electronics mod has no practical effect on the EMP Ray
    Maybe it could increase its efficiency with level, but be capped at 1? The electronics class mod could also affect its efficiency, so that to use the EMP Ray on Battleships (-50%), you'd have to research it beyond level 1. At least there would be a use for researching it beyond level 1.


    Did you check if the Trade Ports tech was increasing both the # of trade ports and their efficiency? That one is kinda hard to test, given that we don't have the formula.

    Also, the Biospheres tech is the only one that does not increase both # and efficiency. Maybe it could be made to do so, and change the base # of pop per Biosphere from 2 to 1? It would be more consistent at all levels. (the tech description would have to be changed back to include that, I have removed that part of the text - which makes me wonder if it wasn't intended for them to have both effects).


    ---

    I have those saves for the Cloning and Living Ships bugs. They also show that the Too Cold temperature display bug in System Overview is still around, and another bug with a fleet managing to plot a course to a system that is outside its fuel range.
    Last edited by .Iceman; 08-07-2008 at 11:01.

  13. #373
    yeah trade ports tech is affecting both things. removing bitmaps shouldn't cause a crash though it might cause the blue nebula to show up in the wrong locations. Removing the galaxy definition itself I don't *think* will cause a crash because it stores a copy inside the savegame file.
    Current developer of Lost Empire: Immortals patches

  14. #374
    When you put in the AI change and removed the ability to move into deep space, I noticed there might be an issue with the racial ability "thinks in 3 dimensions." After playing a couple turns, I realized I could not only intercept enemy ships, but also I could abandon movement orders and leave my ships idle in deep space. So I didn't post anything about it due to lack of testing time.

    Anyways, I'm posting now to ask if some of the players who have more time could verify that the AI is not exploitable by idling your fleet in deep space near target systems. (Possibly even ordering them to distant planets so they pass right by the target, then changing course to attack "without notice")

    Either way, I'm sure the game is far more enjoyable than it was back when I conquered the fully broken AI using nothing but small colony ships.

    Thx Bman654! Your changes are looking excellent and I am looking forward to getting the time to check them out.

  15. #375
    I am not sure what you mean. As it appears so far with about 170 turns, 10415 plays for starting up a game and saving a game so far. As for movement of a Fleet, you can stop any Fleet before it gets to a Star System by right clicking on it so there is no path any further. The path originally will be from star system to star system but sometimes I do stop my Fleets a turn or two before reaching the destination star system. (especially with the Ancient Fleet - as always have some problem (although its not as bad either seeing the Star System or your own Fleet - have problem seeing those annoying other AI Fleets with the initial running around changing fuel depots. - I have two "Intercepted" right now in the new game - journeyGalaxy900 (which is about too many stars compared to the way that I wanted it - more space difference between stars and holes in the galaxy like journeyGalaxy600, oh well) and I never can almost see what they have for engine speed and armor (hull structure) on the ship. Could be me, since it always has seem to be that way.)

    All in all, I suppose 104.15 is working, so far.
    (I don't really have all that much time to play and actually check things out.)The only thing I have seen is that only so many Troops will be made on a turn, and that may depend on Population and I am not sure if that varies or not right now. I have 1 Star System where I do not even see any Population, but there is some, but it took (and I don't think it is done yet) a long time to build 3 Troops, and I think I am still waiting for the fourth Troops. The only thing I can see about that is the fact that I do not actually really see a Population in that Star System, I keep looking for a population line or space and I can not get a count there as there is actually nothing there for the graphic. Unless I missed something, the Biospheres are like 7 out of a small number, so there not all that much population there in the first place. I have not tried to send another Colony ship to that star system just to see if I can "Colonize" it again. I doubt if any player can do that with the game.

    Well, 104.15 seems to work.
    The game is just played as it is though.


    (I like that though where I can change where the Fleet is going - like receiving new orders - I just do not know what the AI can do though. I think it is needed for the game - and for the AI to use it, the AI would have to re-evalute where the heck the Fleets are going- every turn then - but as a Player, sometimes I do that.)
    Last edited by Raion; 08-07-2008 at 19:29.

  16. #376
    @alyar: yeah you can do those things. I use the "target a far away planet then change course for sneak attack" tactic when playing SoTS. It's good fun. The AI *does* attempt to track incoming fleets even if they are not targetting a system. It just does a better job if it can tell where you are going. And of course you can fool it by changing directions. But such tactics work against humans as well.
    Current developer of Lost Empire: Immortals patches

  17. #377
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    Yep, definitely NO starmap explosions for me... any ideas why? I know for sure I had them before 1.0.3, can't recall with 1.0.3.x and they definitely disappeared in 1.0.4.x - could this have anything to do with some fix for the german version about the explosions.pps file or whatever it was?


    Story Line window
    History of the Immortals could, since it's doing nothing, at least show the Allegiance message when each race allies with an Immortal - so you can keep track in an easy way. Maybe also the Thari Artifact message, when it is triggered.

    I had a strange thing happen. Had the initial colony ship, modded, colonized a system. It had more pop than it could handle, so I got the Over-populated message. Pop was decreasing slowly, until something like 87/83. I then edited the Large Colony Ship design (which was used to create the colony), and removed all Colonization Modules in it (since I can't seem to be able to delete the design, says still in use even though I have none). When I checked the said colony, its pop read 53/83! Might not have been in the turn I edited the design, but really close, don't know if it's linked.
    Just commenting, as I was under the impression pop did not change abruptly.

    Colonized a system with a large colony ship. Farms were set to 20/6. Even though it's understandable that only 20 farms were built (instead of the regular 30) because of the low max (as Outpost), if I'd have set the system to Agricultural I'd get 20/24, which represents a loss of 4 farms. Not really very relevant in this case because it'd be a bad bet to set it to Agricultural, but this loss in much larger colony ships can be significant. I think it'd be better to let all improvements be built *always*, and then let them decay naturally *after* a system type is chosen (except those that have zero max - those could even partly converted to the other types).

    I accepted the 1st mission from Bythos, donated the minerals, they were taken from my stock. I then aborted the mission, but the minerals were not returned to my stockpile. Bythos went hostile anyway after ending the turn.

    Is Starvation reducing 2 pop per system, regardless of its population or its food balance? Just asking, that's the result I got.


    About the 2nd effect of the Biospheres tech (which doesn't exist, was supposed to be increasing the # of pop per bio), is there any chance it could be implemented, maybe as an option in the MISC tab? It would be really nice to have that when you set Pop per bio to 1, instead of the default 2.
    Last edited by .Iceman; 09-07-2008 at 10:27.

  18. #378
    Sergeant Michlo's Avatar

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    Iceman, are you sure you have "bloom" enabled? That would probably affect explosion views.
    Lord Michlo
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  19. #379
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    Yep, everything is enabled.

  20. #380
    Maybe the problem is with the explosions file I have though I don't know why. Try reinstalling from your original and save your explosions file then apply my patch and compare the new file to the old. I didn't change code anywhere near the explosion gfx.
    Current developer of Lost Empire: Immortals patches

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