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Capibara said:
Since your current ruler isn't good for trading, but has nice military traits, you should try to start a war and take a province or two as well as some ducats.

The Germanic powers look fairly fractued, if your last few SSs' of Northern Europe are to be belived. You should sweep up and annex/vasilize and gain terroitroy.

Watch out for your BB :rolleyes:
 
Enewald said:
Both!
Würzburg and Österreich!
That would kill trade for few years- giant stability hit, badboy +4 for DOWing (the Swiss doesn't have CB), conquering provinces would also destroy reputation. With 3 Diplomacy Stadtholder that is not good idea. Rememeber that we don't want to lose our merchants.
 
I say war on the Italian provinces with fellow weak enemies! They are quite close to you. And as for the BB and so on you can just hope that when diplo 3 stadzholder dies you gat a really good one. Each leader does what they think's best.
 
ProffessorEGADD said:
I say war on the Italian provinces with fellow weak enemies! They are quite close to you. And as for the BB and so on you can just hope that when diplo 3 stadzholder dies you gat a really good one. Each leader does what they think's best.
Venice is an ally, France has core on Lombardia and war with France is something we want to avoid. Savoy has long border with France, Burgundy and Provence (propably soon will become part of France). Long border = bigger chance of their DOW.
Besides we don't know who Milan and Savoy are allied to. Wait for Venice to drag Swiss into a war in Italy.
 
Ocular I think you'll enjoy the next update, at least in terms of what Switzerland tries to accomplish. :)

Enewald Unfortunately I played the turn before readin your post, so the vote was still ahead for Wurzburg. There's still a possibility of dowing Austria next turn, though...

ProffessorEGADD Funny you should suggest that, considering one of the last wars of the turn I just played.

Tycho's post has got me thinking. His concern about Switzerland's southern neighbors' allies is exactly right. Milan and Savoy, as well as several of the smaller Italian nations, have alliances with various stronger nations (including Tuscany, which is carving a mini empire for itself in central Italy). Of course, none of you would know that which makes it harder for you to give instructions to Switzerland. I'm starting a writeup right now for the turn I just played. After I'm done, either tonight (this morning technically, it's rather late here :p ) or tomorrow I'll put together a report on Switzerland's neighbors, their allies, etc.
 
Session #3, in which Switzerland marches against the world in the name of neutrality, and bullies several small nations.

An office in the Swiss military headquarters in Bern:

General von Noname: Aide, draw up a declaration of war against Wurtemburg.

Aide: Yes sir, a DOW against Aus...did you say Wurtemburg? I thought we were marching against Austria to teach them a lesson about warmongering.

General von Noname: We were, but a meeting of the Tagsuntzag showed some ambivalance about doing so, as Austria is large and, quite frankly, frightening. Plus, their war of aggression against Poland is over, and their ally Hungary lost several territories, so the Stadtholder decided they had learned their lesson.

Aide: But why Wurtemburg?

General von Noname: Intelligence reports show that they have dropped one of their small German allies, likely refusing to defend them form aggression. Such an act requires them to be taught a lesson.

Aide: What ally was it?

General von Noname: Our spies...lost the papers on their former ally, but we do know they once had two and now only have one.

Aide: Maybe it was the ally that betrayed their alliance?

General von Noname: Of course not, now stop asking meaningless questions and start on that declaration!

Aide: *sigh* Right away, sir.



And thus the great Swiss-Wurtemburg war of 1474 began. Swiss allies Venice and Lorraine joined the war, while Wurtemburg only had Ansbach to rely on. The Swiss armies under the command of Stadtholder Stefan took an unusal tact, allowing Wurtemburg to siege Swiss provinces while they chased Ansbach's armies out of Lorrainse and cornered and destroyed them in Baden.



After a short siege Ansbach fell and they were forced to become a vassal and pay a tribute to Switzerland.



Venice then moved its armies into Switzerland to fight off the armies of Wurtemburg there, while Stefan marched into Konstanz and took it. In the end he was able to negotiate the handover of Konstanz to Switzerland and the vassalization of Wurtemburg. Swiss armies had proved their military prowess and taken their first step towards making all of Europe neutral by conquering it.



The next several years were spent recovering Switzerland's stability and searching for new alliances. Eventually an alliance with Bavaria was forged.



In 1477 a new Stadtholder, Alfred Brugger came into office. He was an adequate diplomat and administrator, but a poor general compared to Stefan. Nonetheless, he would lead Switzerland through far more wars than Stefan ever had. After less than a year into his term he had decided that Stefan was right. For Switzerland to become a force for neutrality she needed the respect of the major nations, something only attainable by becoming a nation powerful enough to bend others to its will. In December of 1477, he proclaimed what was to become known as the "Swiss Paradox", that to create peace in Europe in the future war now was required. That same month war was declared on the Palatinae and Alsace.





What Alfred didn't know was that Saxony, jealous of Switzerland's rise, had guaranteed one or both nations attacked. Using this guarantee as an excuse, they joined the war. On paper the Swiss alliance had the advantage in troop numbers, but Saxony would be far more active in helping its allies than the Swiss allies were in helping Switzerland.



After months of hard fighting Alsace and the Palatinate were vassalized, but at a great price. Saxony had defeated Bavaria and carved up their nation, taking Schwaben and Niederbayern. Venice attempted to help the Swiss armies, but things came to a standstill in southern Germany. The Swiss alliance was hampered by a lack of manpower, while Saxony's king had become the Holy Roman Emperor, and they seemed to have unlimited reserves from which to draw more soldiers.



It was decided a new tactic was needed. Although a poor commander of individual battles, Stadtholder Alfred proved quite adept at long term war planning. He knew to get any kind of peace with the Holy Roman Emperor a breakthrough was needed. Carefully avoiding Saxon armies, he marched to the capital of Saxony itself, taking it in a siege assault.



After several attempts at a white peace, it was realized that the leader of the Holy Roman Empire would require some sort of token payment to be able to end the war without losing face, especially after both the nations they tried to protect had been vassalized. So Switzerland offered to end the vassalization of Ansbach and pay some 50 ducats, gained in tribute from Alsace, to end the war. All in all Switzerland came out one vassal ahead, and managed to stand up to the Holy Roman Emperor. Desipte some frustration over a two year war resulting in so few gains, Stadtholder Alfred decided things had not gone too badly.

 
The next couple years were peaceful, as had been the years between the last two wars. Stability recovered, gifts were sent to the allies of Switzerland, and under the able management of Stadtholder Stefan Swiss merchants again dominated the trade center of Venice.

Unlike the previous period of peace, however, the rest of Europe was in turmoil. To the west, France ad just about finished gobbling up the minor duchies that had been within it's borders, and decided to go after the nation of Aragon, quickly overrunning it.



To the north the Saxon king had died, and his successor was apparently so unpopular that not a single Elector voted for him, instead making the King of Hesse the new emperor.



The most interesting news, however, came from the east. After threatening Europe for many long years and conquering much of the territory of the Mamluks the Ottomans appeared to be reaping what they had sowed. Virtually their entire nation was overrun, with the Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth occupying their European and Anatolian provinces and the Mamluks attempting to retake their lost provinces in Egypt. Things became so bad for the Turks that their nation declared bankrupty. Given how powerful Poland and Lithuania already were many were ambivalent about their victories over the Ottomans.





In 1483 Stadtholder Alfred commited what is perhaps the most controversial set of acts in his first term. First he declared war on Genoa. Nobody was surprised as the Swiss people had begun to become used to periodic wars. However, Alfred saw an opportunity when Bavaria, reduced to one province after trying to help against the Saxons earlier, dishonored their alliance, giving Switzerland a casus belli against them. Ignoring Genoa, which did not have military access through the northern Italian states to reach Switzerland, Alfred declared war on Bavaria.

Unfortunately, Saxony had been guaranteeing Bavaria's independence and, seeing a chance to humiliate their enemies the Swiss, joined the war against them. Swiss armies proved competent, quickly taking Munich and forcing Bavaria to accept annexation, then fighting the Saxons to a standstill.



Fighting erupted between Swiss and Saxon armies all over southern Germany, with neither side getting an appreciable edge. This time, however, Saxony did not have the infinite manpower offered by being Holy Roman Emperor. After a year of fighting they decided it was not worth the trouble and offered a white peace to Switzerland.





Their northern front secure, Alfred turned his armies towards Genoa and quickly overwhelmed Genoese forces, making Genoa yet another Swiss vassal.

 
Alright, with another ten years (well, 12, I ran a bit over. :eek:o ) done it is time to do another report for the Tagsuntzag. This one will include more information, to help the members determine the best course for Switzerland.

A map of Switzerland and her neighbors.



Diplomatic situation of non allied neighbors:

Northern Italy
Savoy - Allied with Milan and Modena
Milan - Allied with Mantua, Savoy, and Tuscany

Germany and Austria

Austria - Allied with Corfu, Naxos, and Hungary
Salzburg - Allied with Poland (mentioned because if it weren't for their alliance with juggernaut Poland they'd look like a good target).
Saxony - Allied with Brandenburg and Hesse (the current HRE).

Pretty much all small German states are allied with one or two other minors in the region.

Switzerland is allied with Lorraine, Venice, and Wurtermburg. Vassals include Genoa, Wurtemburg, Alsace and the Palatinate, with all but Wurtemburg rejecting alliances.

Switzerland's internation reputation is tarnished, as other nations shockingly do not believe in our attempt to bring peace to Europe through annexation. It is not too bad (around 7.0), but does hurt our trade considerably. Our nation does have a lot of rpestige in Europe, and we rank as one of the most successful nations.



Now for the domestic report. Our nation sadly has only low quality advisors, although they are still a help in several areas, especially our artist.



Tax income has exploded, largely thanks to money from vassals, which defrays the cost of our losing our trade somewhat. Still, Switzerland is not as rich in its glory days of trade. With no new cores, the census tax remains at about 26 or so ducats a year.



Our national idea and sliders.



As always the fate of the Swiss nation is for you to decide, members of the Tagsuntzag.
 
hmm... bext time vasslize the saxons... and fight till the bitter end. :)
no giving ups!
Never pay tribute... it is so humiliating... :(
or not really, but still. :)
 
Good job getting Genua as a vassal, that's a CoT waiting to be annexed! :) I'd second comagoosie, you need to lose a few of your bb points.

If you want to do a bit more warmongering, I's suggest a German minor allied with one or two other. That's three vassals for you and easy targets!
 
comagoosie That's a good idea. Although vassals are providing a significant portion of Switzerland's tax revenue the nation is still not making nearly as much money as they had in their trading hey day in session one.

Enewald Probably should have. Both times I fought them I hadn't really expected to, as they turned out to be guaranteeing a nation I attacked. The first time their status as HRE scared me, and the second time I wanted to annex Munich and turn back south. Next time it will have to be a fight to the death.

safferli Thanks, my eventual hope is to get a core on the province before diploannexing them but we'll see what happens. I thought I was picking on small minors when the Saxons guarantee brought them into two wars. :wacko: Will have to be more careful next time.

I could let my bb go down and get back into trade for a while, aiming to diploannex some of those vassals.
 
Zimfan said:
Diplomatic situation of non allied neighbors:

Northern Italy
Savoy - Allied with Milan and Modena
Milan - Allied with Mantua, Savoy, and Tuscany

Germany and Austria

Austria - Allied with Corfu, Naxos, and Hungary
Salzburg - Allied with Poland (mentioned because if it weren't for their alliance with juggernaut Poland they'd look like a good target).
Saxony - Allied with Brandenburg and Hesse (the current HRE).
Leave them for future - those alliances are too strong for our mighty army.


Zimfan said:
Pretty much all small German states are allied with one or two other minors in the region.
That's the target's for future expansive wars, but now we should wait.

Zimfan said:
Switzerland is allied with Lorraine, Venice, and Wurtermburg. Vassals include Genoa, Wurtemburg, Alsace and the Palatinate, with all but Wurtemburg rejecting alliances.
How big are armies of our allies? Are our relations with Venice and Lorraine good? We dragged them into several wars, they had little profit of.
Zimfan said:
Switzerland's internation reputation is tarnished, as other nations shockingly do not believe in our attempt to bring peace to Europe through annexation. It is not too bad (around 7.0), but does hurt our trade considerably. Our nation does have a lot of rpestige in Europe, and we rank as one of the most successful nations.
At least we have 5 adm Stadtholder - and 6 diplomacy will help us become honourable soon.

Zimfan said:
Tax income has exploded, largely thanks to money from vassals, which defrays the cost of our losing our trade somewhat. Still, Switzerland is not as rich in its glory days of trade. With no new cores, the census tax remains at about 26 or so ducats a year.
Do we have any workshops? And do we have any merchant left after the wars?
Zimfan said:
As always the fate of the Swiss nation is for you to decide, members of the Tagsuntzag.

comagoosie said:
calm down a bit, and let your BB fall and your manpower replenish. Then your trading biz will do great!
I agree. Fighting wars with no manpower is a very bad idea. /wait for BB to go down and focus on trade.

What about research? Is our technology outdated compared with other countries? Or the opposite?
 
have you started making guarantees and warnings to all smal countrys in germany and lombardy?

with that the wars will come on its own..
you should keep an eye on savoy, to get your big claim in italy, all lombard provinces can be under mighty swiss rule.. with 2 cots with accepted culture..

maybe you can diplo vassal/annex venice with the money from the smal wars.

if you get the 2 southern saxon provinces in bavaria, you should have stopped austrias movement to germany even before it has begun.. of course you should not give them military acces

burgundy will be a bigger problem.. but you know this..
if you move your border in germany as far to northwest as possible you maybe can avoid a burgundy blob..
keep relations up with them :rolleyes:


oh, and try to vassal france of course :)

good luck
 
The Stadtholder's Aide quickly shifts through a stack of papers on his desk to search out the information Councilmen Tycho requests.


Tycho said:
How big are armies of our allies? Are our relations with Venice and Lorraine good? We dragged them into several wars, they had little profit of.

Lorraine has an army of 11,0000, all infantry. Venice has about 10,000 infantry and 2,000 cavalry.


Do we have any workshops? And do we have any merchant left after the wars?

We have a workshop in all four provinces, having built three, and Munich having had one when we annexed it.

We have no more merchants in any cots. One is on the way to Venice, and we get 4.8 merchants each year.

I agree. Fighting wars with no manpower is a very bad idea. /wait for BB to go down and focus on trade.

Indeed, not only is our manpower terribly low, but we need 2000+ soldiers to fill up our army and only gain 157 a month.

What about research? Is our technology outdated compared with other countries? Or the opposite?

Our technology is fairly mediocre. We no longer have a large trade tech advantage, and are average in government and production. Land and Naval, both at one, are behind most nations who have reached two in both already. The only good news is that we are very near the next level in land, trade, production, and, less importantly, navy.
 
Under Stadtholder Stefan we only received a single diplomat a year, so it was difficult, but we did warn many of our neighbors. Now we are getting nearly three and should be much more able to keep relations with neighbors and warn potential enemies.

Military access with Austria had been sought fairly early to increase relations and, since they have fought rebels for us in Konstanz from time to time, we had never thought of negative consequences. Perhaps as you say it is time to rethink our granting of access.

etepetete said:
have you started making guarantees and warnings to all smal countrys in germany and lombardy?

with that the wars will come on its own..
you should keep an eye on savoy, to get your big claim in italy, all lombard provinces can be under mighty swiss rule.. with 2 cots with accepted culture..

maybe you can diplo vassal/annex venice with the money from the smal wars.

if you get the 2 southern saxon provinces in bavaria, you should have stopped austrias movement to germany even before it has begun.. of course you should not give them military acces

burgundy will be a bigger problem.. but you know this..
if you move your border in germany as far to northwest as possible you maybe can avoid a burgundy blob..
keep relations up with them :rolleyes:


oh, and try to vassal france of course :)

good luck
 
Poland is pretty scary looking, along with their ally Lithuania. I'm not sure what to think about it. On the one hand they've kept Austria in check. On the other, they just occupied every single Ottoman territory. I'm worried about how much they'll get from a peace deal.

ProffessorEGADD said:
ha ha, very good updates. Nice to see that the Swiss are branching out a bit. Also Poland looks like it may become a major power...