The Glory of France (MMG2)

[GhostWriter]

i'm in ! !

i won't be able to catch up on the reading for a few days, but i have started reading...

[Myth]

Man, those English sure folded. I can probably imagine why though, since I had played a bit with the English with MMG2 (as I mentioned earlier, I can't play vanilla ). They're just hit by devastating event after devastating event in such a succession at the beginning of the game. I actually felt too straight-jacketed in it (another reason to wait for In Nomine! ). Seeing as I'm not any sort of EU3 veteran or an economist, all the unrest I'm assuming MMG2 forced on me absolutely murdered my economy. So I think the point is that I personally disapprove of MMG2, though that won't stop me from reading along with this

[Enewald]

Just annex all your vassals, then kick burgundy.

[edish1]

im playing the same game, and you folded to quickly. I asked for both Gascoigne and Calais and got both. My warscore was nothing, i didnt even Siege Calais. Then I restarted, again playing as France, and did the same thing in less than 6 months, but this time i had to siege Calais. NO BRITISH ON CONTINENTAL EUROPE!!!

[edish1]

Just annex all your vassals, then kick burgundy.

Im having a litte trouble doing that, they always stay on "maybe" and when they fail to understand the benefits, and say "no", the relations fall to below 150. Can i just pump out bribes, or does the amount of "good relations from bribes" fall if i do it to often?

[Irenicus]

Great AAR. Gameplay AAR at its finest; and honestly, there can never be enough France AAR's around, regardless of who's in charge, the Capets, the Valois, Louis-Philippe, or de Gaulle.

I wish you and your France well. May it prosper...and may it suffer from a big, big revolution someday! I want to see a revolutionary Europe!

im playing the same game, and you folded to quickly. I asked for both Gascoigne and Calais and got both. My warscore was nothing, i didnt even Siege Calais. Then I restarted, again playing as France, and did the same thing in less than 6 months, but this time i had to siege Calais. NO BRITISH ON CONTINENTAL EUROPE!!!

No worries, he can always kick 'em later after all. Besides, the English rarely gets powerful enough to resist France in the long run, not with the War of the Roses on them and the colonial days a century away at least. Calais isn't all that rich honestly -- it's not like Vlaanderen which would be worth an extended war for.

Besides, Burgundy might even do his job for him and take Calais on their own (they do have cores on it), and then he can go beat them up and steal it for France; or better yet, inherit it (and the rest of Burgundy sans the Low Countries) post-1500 free of bloodshed, if things are still the same as MMG1.

[Rensslaer]

Nice work with Gascogne, Coz!

Looking forward to seeing who your next enemy shall be...

Rensslaer

[coz1]

Fb-fb:

stnylan - Indeed, I believe these are some of the best advisors I've ever had. It seems I don't get too many 6 star fellas, so I'm going to use these as best I can.

TreizeV - Quite. France gives you a little bit of everything - in the middle of continental affairs but also generally a colonizer. Lot's of juicy vassals and plenty of opportunity to get into mischief with the Empire.

Zimfan - I do the same, though I may have to adjust that if the English decide to be a pain (and Portugal if they are allied.) As for the NI's, I believe they pretty much do the same as vanilla, though I could be wrong. Should have made a screenie or two with those.

dem61s - I am inclined to agree. The best way to make sure the Empire doesn't get one up on France is to keep up or better in land tech. But which land idea?

Lord Durham - Well there you go. Thanks for the small history lesson there, LD. Learn something new every day. I've never really studied that area of the world, so much of it is new to me.

GhostWriter - Wonderful to see you back and making the rounds a bit, GW. I hope the back is feeling better. This should be some easy reading so don't worry too much about getting behind. Thanks for jumping on board too. It wouldn't be a proper AAR without a GhostWriter comment or two.

Myth - You are certainly right about that. The Wars of the Roses pretty much takes England for a ride for the next decade or so. Hopefully I can capitalize on that.

Enewald - Easier said than done, my friend. See below.

edish1 - I want to play a little cautiously to start because I don't want too much BB. I was frankly surprised they'd give Gascogne up so easily so I would not have thought of asking for both. Besides, I'll likely use Calais as a bargaining chip when and if they invade again. As for vassals, you are right. That "maybe" is pesky. Sometimes they go for it, sometimes not. I've lost Provence as a vassal in the past after too many requests. But gifts will certainly pull those relations back up in short time. The question is, when do I start asking them to join in? In EUII it was 30 years for certainty. I think I'll start working on it around 1464 or so in this game. May be too short a time though. We'll see.

Irenicus - Thanks! Very good point on Burgundy too. While I'd like to try and remain friends with them in the early going, that never lasts very long. I have the feeling France will be tangling with Burgundy sooner rather than later.

Rensslaer - Thank you, sir. As for my next enemy, right now it's stability. I need to get it back over 0.

And I need to decide on another national idea. No other suggestions on that? I am leaning towards the land ideas, but the question remains, which one - Grand Armee, Military Drill or Battlefield Commissions?


Next update sometime over the weekend. Thanks to all for reading and commenting! I do appreciate it.

[ubik]

About NIs:

There are "families" of ideas In Magna Mundi that allow you to choose the advanced NI of that type. The advanced NI is more powerful than any other basic NI. The basic question is: Is specialization worth it?


If you want to specialize I'd sugest Elite Regiments (to see your enemies soldiers melt away on the battlefield) or Battlefield Commissions (this turns your leaders at +1 in every category AND will up your morale bonus from ideas to 130% - a good way to win most of the battles).

If you don't want to specialize, I'd recommend Merchant Adventures (to start playing the trade game for serious), National Bank (you can never go wrong with a 0.05 inflation reduction bonus!) or Espionage (if you fancy an idea that helps significantly in all the game aspects).

Cabinet can also be a good option as it helps a country to get advanced ideas in 3 different areas (check the table in the manual).

I strongly sugest you define an overall strategy for your NI picking or you'll regret it in 100 years time...



War of the Roses:

It may happen in several flavours. Sometimes it is very strong, others you'll almost never notice it. Most of the time will keep you occupied without never getting out of hand. However, it will put a significant strain to fight a war with France while the War of the Roses last.

We coded it because in May 1453 the stage was already set for the War of the Roses.

I suppose anyone who plays the mod cannot say it is staight-jacketing in any way. Due to the consequences of one's actions it is harder and grittier. But not more than that.

[coz1]

That's good advice, Ubik (but of course it is since you are among the fellows who brought us this mod.) To assist the other readers, I thought I'd pick a few of the relevent passages from the manuel:

Second, a new concept is introduced: specialization. Upon choosing
four National Ideas from a certain group, a new idea, previously
inaccessible, becomes available. These Ideas are more powerful than
any other single idea of the same field.

Which is pretty much what you said above. There's a handy little graph too to help:



I'd forgotten about Elite Regiments, but that sounds like a good one too. My strategy at the start at least is to build a powerful army capable of taking whatever challenge the HRE wants to throw at me, so the "Glorious Arms" specialization seems appropriate. I'll need it if I want some of those Burgundian provinces that are part of the HRE. Am I being too shortsighted and not thinking long range enough, I wonder?

[ubik]

No, not shortsighted.

But you are commiting to that single path up to the middle of the XVI century. France will be faced with some interesting oportunities in this time, colonization being the most important. Without the proper planning and supporting ideas you may end up with a crippled colonization, completely outpaced by the usual suspects.

Also important is the fact that it will be difficult to plan offensive wars in the colonies later as you'll have a significant disadvantage in the naval warfare versus England, Spain or Portugal. Even more so, big naval nations with CoTs will earn more from trade than nations without naval ideas. Up to 30% more.

In th end, you are establishing yourself as THE continental power. Nothing wrong with that. Only understand you are commiting mostly to a single path.

Be warned the new vassalization system will be giving you much more headaches than before. Speaking of the new vassalization system, the "Diplomatic Preparations" event concerns the meeting with your vassals where different policies for your domain will be discussed. France is the only country that starts with the House of the Highlords built as having 6 vassals without it would be an invitation for many internal problems early on.




Sugestion: Start making plans for the conquest of The Azores, Iceland or some place in Ireland.

[coz1]

I think I see what you are saying. I can focus on working towards the NI for Glorious Arms now but that will take up my next two NI slots (and a goodly amount of time) as opposed to picking say Cabinet and another helpful colonization NI to assist there (or naval to deal with enemy fleets.) I can always work towards Glorious Arms in later centuries, I suppose (since I already start with 2 of the 4 needed). And one can have more than one specialization as well, yes? At least I think that's what I understood from the manual.

Edit - OK, here are the NIs I'm looking at:

[Irenicus]

I think our vote would depend on whether you plan on colonizing a lot of places and/or try to dominate trade (as far as MMG allows...which is pretty restrictive) or not.

Personally though, I don't think Army NI's is a priority for France. You are, after all, the Queen of Europe. Even without the extra élan provided by more NI's you have the manpower and military might to squash any one opponent quite completely. Your only challenge to continental dominance is honestly a Holy Roman Empire led by a strong Austria and the amazing manpower bonus that they get as long as the Empire remains diverse. Oh, and the Turks, but that's another matter.

So it really depends on how you're going to get the economy that allows you to make full use of the French's military potential. Trade? Colonization? Production? France is such a well-rounded country that however you play it, there's always that sense that you're not fulfilling all its potentials. 12 idea slots are too low I say!

After all, you need to keep at least a spot for the epic win that is the Liberté, Egalité, Fraternité revolutionary idea. >_<

Though personally I love the idea that Cabinet provides potential for three specializations. The idea itself isn't all that spectacular (there are better things to choose from -- inflation reductions, more merchants, more colonists, better navy, etc.), but such versatility is very appealing.

One interesting note though: I think that if you're going to seriously colonize, you'll at least need a navy idea or two to keep up with the challenge of other naval-colonial powers, who'd most likely also pick a navy idea or two on their own.

[humancalculator]

You didn't do what I did playing my first major power as France in 1453. After 5 years of war with England, my econmy was in ruins, half of France in revolt, no allies, and then with all of England subdued I accidentally pressed "White Peace" . I learned more in those 5 hours than I did in the previous month I had played EUIII.

[edish1]

q1: The manual dictates that the most military loses will come from attrition, and after siegeing some swiss provinces i do see the point. So I choose Improved Foraging as my first NI. Maybe i have misunderstood the benefits, but -25% attrition sounds extremly powerful, especially as france wields great big armies in provinces with supplylimits down to 2, but noone is even metioning it here... Am I misunderstanding something?

Q2: I hate the damned HRE, each province i take is demanded back, with a accumulated 3 reputation hit for refusing. My pround france went from 0 rep, to 8 for 2 louzy provinces, then 2 Framed events, that took me to... 29! Max-rep was 22, then my advisor died and max went to 19. And then the whole world went to get some wine and cheese in Paris, Austria leading the way while whistling happily.... Any tips how to handle the HRE, they just hate my nation of Baguette-wielders. (Just got banished by the HRE... again)

MM2 is actually outstanding so far, I have NO chance whatsoever to accomplice anything...

[comagoosie]

Already I see some events of MM2. This is lookin good! and with your trade advisor maybe you can start trading

[dharper]

q1: The manual dictates that the most military loses will come from attrition, and after siegeing some swiss provinces i do see the point. So I choose Improved Foraging as my first NI. Maybe i have misunderstood the benefits, but -25% attrition sounds extremly powerful, especially as france wields great big armies in provinces with supplylimits down to 2, but noone is even metioning it here... Am I misunderstanding something?

It's -25% of your attrition, not -25% total. Or, to try and make it clearer, it means if you would normally suffer 5% attrition, you'd only suffer 3.75% with this idea...not a huge benefit, but it does add up over time.

Personally I vote for one of the economic ones; all three of the trading ones are a good bet if you're not planning on being too aggressive. I'd personally choose Merchant Adventures because it helps give you a better return for your limited money at the start of the game and it can help you later get Mass Colonization if you want it...which you will, if you want to dominate the New World. However, since BB reduces merchant chances, it may not do you much good if you plan on being aggressive soon. In that case, I'd go with Engineering Corps - with the new fort levels, having every single general be a +1 siege leader is worth its weight in gold!

EDIT: Which France starts with. Ahem. In that case, how about Battlefield Commissions? +1 leader shock is pretty spiffy too.

As others have said, I don't think you need to worry about your army at all right now; you're stronger than just about anyone! Plus, in theory you don't want to fight any wars anytime soon - at least not until you've gotten a better government so you can rid yourself of that administrative penalty. Otherwise adding provinces may make you fall behind the technology race.

Q2: I hate the damned HRE, each province i take is demanded back, with a accumulated 3 reputation hit for refusing. My pround france went from 0 rep, to 8 for 2 louzy provinces, then 2 Framed events, that took me to... 29! Max-rep was 22, then my advisor died and max went to 19. And then the whole world went to get some wine and cheese in Paris, Austria leading the way while whistling happily.... Any tips how to handle the HRE, they just hate my nation of Baguette-wielders. (Just got banished by the HRE... again)

My advice: fabricate claims whenever and wherever possible, it's the absolute easiest strategy in the empire. Failing that, absorb gradually and strategically - the emperor is much more willing to ignore a transgression if it's a first offense and you're only taking one province at a time, so if you can, conquer Lubeck and its COT or another rich province instead of trying to annex all of Brandenburg (say) at once. Failing everything else, consider abolishing the empire!

[Zimfan]

If you're still leaning towards the land NIs I like the Battlefield Commisions one, if for no other reason than the +1 to shock for generals. But then, I tend to have bad luck with them.

Military Drill looks good, too.

[ubik]

q1: The manual dictates that the most military loses will come from attrition, and after siegeing some swiss provinces i do see the point. So I choose Improved Foraging as my first NI. Maybe i have misunderstood the benefits, but -25% attrition sounds extremly powerful, especially as france wields great big armies in provinces with supplylimits down to 2, but noone is even metioning it here... Am I misunderstanding something?

Q2: I hate the damned HRE, each province i take is demanded back, with a accumulated 3 reputation hit for refusing. My pround france went from 0 rep, to 8 for 2 louzy provinces, then 2 Framed events, that took me to... 29! Max-rep was 22, then my advisor died and max went to 19. And then the whole world went to get some wine and cheese in Paris, Austria leading the way while whistling happily.... Any tips how to handle the HRE, they just hate my nation of Baguette-wielders. (Just got banished by the HRE... again)

MM2 is actually outstanding so far, I have NO chance whatsoever to accomplice anything...

a1: That is another interesting possibility. Your assessement you are already top of the piramid on land and thus going over to protect your current land assets is a valid point.


a2: Two words: Fabricate Claims.

[merrick]

Well done on handling the English war. No advice on the MMG NIs (not having played MMG), but they certainly look interesting.