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Weltkriegschaft

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El Pip said:
How did the Abwher become so competent when, historically, they had trouble making toast without burning the house down?
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Actually the Abwehr was more like a house with great chefs AND complete and utter dunces setting fire to the neighborhood trying to make lukewarm milk. I suppose the problem lied in the way people were recruited - a little too much co-optation, I'm afraid.
 
Kanil - Thank you and thank you!

canonized - Thank you very much. I don't see anything from you in PMs, though...

Kurt_Steiner - Aha! *reads summary on Wikipedia* Set in Cairo no less! I hadn't known.

El Pip - Thank you, and great to have you aboard :D .

Does anybody in Britain and France ever display anything that looks even a little bit like a brain cell? Because so far they've thicker than the offspring of a village idiot and a TV weather girl.
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I'm pleased to report that they do, eventually. And in fairness (to them), it should be noted that while there are indeed voices for reason in both countries, they just don't happen to be the ones in power.

Do the Germans ever suffer any bad luck, thus far it's all been good which is frankly getting a bit dull.
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Yes they do. Although admittedly much of what has gone on so far can be attributed to luck and Allied ineptitude, the same can be surely said of the OTL campaign in 1940. I do of course acknowledge a certain dramatic weakness in such luck, and kindly beg your patience in getting through it. If I were writing this solely from my own imagination I confess the Germans would have encountered more serious reversals, but alas I am bound by engine-generated results. Not to worry though, if it's reversals you're looking for, they're certainly in store.

How did the Abwher become so competent when, historically, they had trouble making toast without burning the house down?
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I suppose this can be attributed to a few factors. One, that the world is not yet (as of page 20) expecting the aggression from Germany that it was in OTL 1939. This mindset contributed to the success, for example, of Operation Chopin. Also, the Allied intelligence services opposing them were at this point still largely in their shriveled post-Great War state. Further, based on all available historical evidence this is still a couple years before the point in OTL at which Admiral Canaris, er, "lost his motivation" to be as effective and competent as possible. Of these three reasons, I'd say the third is perhaps the most decisive ;) .


Brad1 - Thank you. To clarify, while I was not consciously "power-gaming" I was not intentionally hindering myself either.

trekaddict - Yes and no. I certainly have done things to better fit the storyline, yet at the same time I've seen my role as primarily explaining what happened in-engine.
 
Ack, sorry, Atlantic Friend! You slipped in while I was writing.

Yes, yours is an apt analogy that brings out a fourth point. That many of the Abwehr's failures can be attributed at least in part to the meddling and willfulness of higher authorities.
 
TheHyphenated1 said:
Brad1 - Thank you. To clarify, while I was not consciously "power-gaming" I was not intentionally hindering myself either.
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Well there's your problem, until you deliberately make mistakes (or at the very least don't exploit the AI's problems) you'll always end up too successful.

Which is never a good thing for a story, constant success does sap the tension somewhat. Unless of course you aspire to be the new Tom Clancy *shudder*
 
El Pip said:
Well there's your problem, until you deliberately make mistakes (or at the very least don't exploit the AI's problems) you'll always end up too successful.

Which is never a good thing for a story, constant success does sap the tension somewhat. Unless of course you aspire to be the new Tom Clancy *shudder*
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Agreed. Although I sometimes did things because they were, IMHO, the British thing to do, or because I thought Churchill would have done it, and that included using Paras a few times, so I can't say I never exploited the AI, but I didn't make a habit of it though.


As for Mr. Clancy, I stopped reading his books after "Executive Orders".
 
El Pip & trekaddict - Fair points all. To clarify the clarification ( :rofl: ), though, I have endeavored not to exploit the AI in unrealistic ways. For example, multiple attacks to confuse the defense AI and force a mistake actually mirrors real tactics -- but leaving France undefended, confident that because of AI issues the Allies won't mount a successful D-Day, I would consider to be an unrealistic exploitation of the AI.

And taking a cue from your displeasure with Clancy, I'll be sure to scrap that Ford Trimotor into the Reichstag plotline I was getting ready to introduce... :p
 
TheHyphenated1 said:
El Pip & trekaddict - Fair points all. To clarify the clarification ( :rofl: ), though, I have endeavored not to exploit the AI in unrealistic ways. For example, multiple attacks to confuse the defense AI and force a mistake actually mirrors real tactics -- but leaving France undefended, confident that because of AI issues the Allies won't mount a successful D-Day, I would consider to be an unrealistic exploitation of the AI.

And taking a cue from your displeasure with Clancy, I'll be sure to scrap that Ford Trimotor into the Reichstag plotline I was getting ready to introduce... :p
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Agrees.

As for the Reichstag: did it burn as per OTL? If so you would have to have the tri-motor crash into the Kroll Opera anyway.

Oh and have the Pilot whistle the theme tune from "These Maginficent men and their flying Machines." That tune and that plane go awesome together.
 
Yes, the Reichstag did burn. But it's still standing and structurally (somewhat, dubiously, sketchily) sound. What with Welthauptstadt Germania being planned, though, as of July 1936 it's slated for destruction some time in the mid-1940s.

Which is probably about 2020 at the rate this AAR is going :eek:o .
 
TheHyphenated1 said:
I was thinking what a good topic might be -- at first I thought of something naval, but because we haven't really explored that much yet, and because Draco Rexus, Director and El Pip sadly don't seem to be readers, that might not be the most fruitful subject ;) .
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Best keep away from that subject, based on the brief naval related passages so far, and of course the epic luck of the Hun in this tale, I suspect it would consist of two 'well bronzed' Kriegsmarine ratings rowing to Scapa Flow, firing a Mauser at the nearest battleship then watching it ricochet through the entire Home Fleet, sinking everything, then leaving the sun light deprived, dirty, ricket ridden British sailors to drown.

I may, perhaps, have exaggerated slightly in that paragraph. But only a little.

Page 35, only a dozen to go.
 
Atlantic Friend said:
Actually the Abwehr was more like a house with great chefs AND complete and utter dunces setting fire to the neighborhood trying to make lukewarm milk. I suppose the problem lied in the way people were recruited - a little too much co-optation, I'm afraid.
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What does this make the French High Command?
 
El Pip said:
Unless of course you aspire to be the new Tom Clancy *shudder*
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I enjoyed Clancy's earlier works. I never finished Sum of All Fears or Debt of Honor (and haven't read anything he published later), but I remember Without Remorse as being pretty good.

Look on the bright side. He could be emulating Clive Cussler.

Faeelin said:
What does this make the French High Command?
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Historically realistic? :p
 
El Pip said:
Best keep away from that subject, based on the brief naval related passages so far, and of course the epic luck of the Hun in this tale, I suspect it would consist of two 'well bronzed' Kriegsmarine ratings rowing to Scapa Flow, firing a Mauser at the nearest battleship then watching it ricochet through the entire Home Fleet, sinking everything, then leaving the sun light deprived, dirty, ricket ridden British sailors to drown.

I may, perhaps, have exaggerated slightly in that paragraph. But only a little.

Page 35, only a dozen to go.
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Be fair now... Actually several things in his AAR were even less successful than in real life if you're going to weigh the two.



Eben Emael = less successful
Submarine campaign = nonexistant
the entire early part of the France campaign
Battle near Malta (a prominent naval example, which you did not mention!)


And as i've read, the health thing was generally true for the non-German nations in the thirties, specifically because the Germans emphasized health as a way of building up the nation.

But you're right, if you're looking for an AAR where Germany fails you've probably come to the wrong place.
 
SeleucidRex said:
But you're right, if you're looking for an AAR where Germany fails you've probably come to the wrong place.
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AARs in which the player fails as Germany are few and far between. Even Ayeshteni managed to succeed.
 
I'm not expecting Germany to lose, as mentioned an AAR where the writer's nation loses is rarer than a good recent Clancy novel (I too enjoyed his early stuff, but when he's bad it's horrific), just noting the prevalence of luck beating better equipped and more numerous, if very stupid and gullible, opponents.

Applying that to any naval battle between the Kriegsmarine and the Royal Navy, given the fact Germany has to win and will do so by it's ever present luck, would not be pretty. :eek:

Though I'll suspend judgement till I get to this naval battle by Malta, I'm still a good dozens pages behind so it could prove me completely wrong. Shockingly that has happened before! ;)
 
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TheHyphenated1 said:
Kurt_Steiner - Aha! *reads summary on Wikipedia* Set in Cairo no less! I hadn't known.
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I discovered this character by the performance done by David Soul in the TV adaptation and his wickedeness conquered my dark heart, couldn't help... :D
 
Another great update....like I should be surprised. Long reading....but well worth finishing every word.

Looking forward for the uprising rearing up to tie down precious British Troops in the interior of Egypt (Cairo and other cities), thus relieving the pressure on the Italian troops. I always thought that they should have been better fighters since they were descendants of the Roman Legions of past Glory. But alas, they were not.

KLorberau
 
All caught up! Huzzah, an excellent AAR sir.

Discount the less than positive comments, alas I'm better at critiques than compliments, though I am doing my best to correct that.

It may be a bit late but my guess on Loewengrube is;

Never happen as it would be an utter slaughter, even the Kriegsmarine must know that. The vast minefield idea is, frankly, a red herring and I hope the naval planners secretly know that, even if they can't admit so to their bosses.

If Britain is being invaded does anyone really think the Royal Navy would hesitate to use tugs, trawlers or even destroyers as 'one shot minesweepers' to clear a path for the fleet. Even with total tactical and strategic surprise it's at most 24 hours steaming time till the Home Fleet gets from Scapa to the Channel. Once even one battleship makes it there the invasion is all over, the supply line is severed and the German invaders get wiped out due to lack of ammo, supplies, reinforcement, etc.

Of course that assumes the AI keeps a hefty fleet in British waters and uses it like any realistic (or even very stupid) leader would. Sadly the AI does things that even the very worst conceivable government would never consider, so it's more than possible. It depends if you want to exploit the AI and game engine. ;)
 
Finally! Someone who agrees with me! Whenever someone tries to discuss the merit of an OTL or TTL Sealion with me I always say that the RN would sacrifice itself down to the last rowboat. :)
 
Faeelin said:
What does this make the French High Command?
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Hmm...apples and oranges ?

There was no co-optation in the French General Headquarters. You left Saint Cyr with an officer billet, and stuck to headquarter postings, and here you were. Case in point : Gamelin. It was a system that produced people good at repeating what pleased the upper echelons.

But if you look at the Abwehr, you find the worst and the best, really. The attempts to infiltrate Great-Britain were amateurish, they never caught a whiff that all of their agents had either been arrested or had been turned by the British... Even German generals were highly critical of the Abwehr's intelligence harvest.
 
El Pip (1) - Did I tell you that in 1947 Germany invents the Nuclear Bullet :eek: ?

Faeelin - Overconfident and unaware. Welcome aboard, by the way. Have you been reading all along?

dublish (1) - Reality stings, dublish. Nice to see your concertina wire wit directed at long-dead French generals rather than poor old Hardraade :p .

SeleucidRex - Certainly some aspects have been less successful. But I've tried to keep those things strictly a function of what would have actually been less successful in WTL vs. OTL, rather than just selectively handicapping things to approximate Germany's OTL "fail rate". You're right on about the health. El Pip is certainly free to make critiques, though. I acknowledge most of the things he's pointed out, actually, as inherent in my philosophy of AAR-writing (that is, crafting the narrative to fit the results rather than the results to fit the narrative).

dublish (2) - Even including the 1944 scenario :eek: !

El Pip (2) - Thanks for suspending judgment! It's true that the Italians haven't benefitted from Germany's, ahm, clear-headed leadership. It remains to be seen, though, how the Kriegsmarine will fare on its first outing. Suffice to say, I wouldn't be too worried about what you may be worrying about on that front ;) . Translated into AAR-terms, the stupidity and gullibility of the AI is accounted for by French tactical rigidity and poorly-coordinated operational direction. In contrast, Bayerlein's GGS provided excellent top-level vision during the campaign. The French were more numerous, but failed to concentrate and use their numbers effectively. Aside from armor, equipment was about even between the two armies.

Kurt_Steiner - Aha!

KLorberau - Why thank you! Glad you enjoyed it. The Italians actually aren't bad fighters man-for-man. As Rommel noted in OTL, referring to the Italians: "Good troops, bad officers. But remember that without them we wouldn't have civilization."

El Pip (3) - Thank you most kindly! I do welcome your thoughts and critiques of all stripes, and am glad to have you aboard! Interesting thinking about the minefield... Perhaps this would explain Raeder's dubious analysis to Schacht? You raise the valid point, though, that whether the planners see it or not, shuttling a couple thousand Rhine barges across the Channel against the opposition of the Home Fleet is beyond dangerous and arguably suicidal. Much will depend on the wisdom and foresight of the British government and Admiralty ;) .

trekaddict - Oh, I agree as well :D .

Atlantic Friend - Excellent points.
 
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