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Thread: The Setting Sun - Gotterdammerung, Japan 1944.

  1. #321
    I am the Law Sokraates's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoulStealer
    Or they may not close at all. I've noticed carriers tend to keep the rest of the fleet out of the battle in fair conditions. Sort of like destroyers being little more than damage soaks in an escort role. They just don't have the gunnery range. Of course, I could simply be thinking of an earlier version or way back to vanilla HOI 2.

    Doctrines might also be a limiting factor. I am uncertain of the position of his research.
    This is true, but a fleet without carriers (here: the British) will want to close at all costs. Carriers act as flagships and thus order their fleet to keep a distance, since that's their way of fighting.

    So if both fleets have carriers, they will fight at maximum distance. If a fleet has no carriers or if its carriers are destroyed, the next "strongest" shiptype takes over (battlerships, then light carriers, then battlecruisers, etc IIRC) and those will usually want to close the distance (except for light carriers).

    So here the British fleet will want to close the distance while the Japanese (with carriers) would want to fight from afar. Closing the distance usually works rather well even for fleets with inferior positioning (as seen in Rembles last AAR), so the British should be able to do so quickly.

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    Like many of you already said: It is important to hit this fleet before the real ship-to-ship engagement starts.

    What about the old japanese submarines. They are not very usefull any more I think. Why not send them for a kamikaze-fight? If they cause damage - very good. If they dont't cause damage - they wont need oil and supplies any more.

  3. #323
    Connavar - Trouble is only just beginning I think.

    Sokraates, Illumini, Nathan Madien, harezmi - An interesting naval discussion to be sure Osami and Yamamoto have devised a plan for the British fleet which will be explained in the monthly update that follows. As far as I know every ship contributes to defence and I haven't read blue emu's theory on CL's, he is probably right though as he tests things a lot before he explains a theory. Even if they don't it will still hurt my bombers a lot when they catch up to the British Battleships.

    The British fleet is missing one critical component. No CVL's. This should mean that it is unlikely that they would be able to close with a CTF. Should mean is not good enough for me to risk engaging it with my Carriers, especially as they have no escorts. They only need to get lucky once and its curtains for the IJN.

    Mangudai - The U.S. Transport fleet is one of my main targets as it renders the U.S. impotent in the Pacific if I can sink them all.

    Sheepguard - The current German situation will be in the update.

    Simon-1979 - The Kriegsmarine is actually in fairly decent shape for now. TACs are my favourite bomber by far as they are so versatile. Deciding to build them means a short term problem but long term they are definately needed.

    SouthCarolinian - I have the feeling the defences have only begun to be tested so far. Syria will cause untold problems

    Sokraates, Maj. von Mauser - You both get a cookie for spotting the Chinese Air Force

    bbcrackmonkey - Fighting the Soviets is a long term strategy. I will almost certainly lose and badly when they decide they want China. I will fight them every step of the way but shear numbers will give them too much of an advantage. Taking continental Asia is one thing, trying to set foot in the Pacific entirely another. They might leave a lot of their army in Europe though, in which case I might be able to do something.

    Winner - The forces in China are enough to stop the British, they cannot stop both them and the Soviets. The British will be the next target after China though and I hope to push them back into India at the very least.

    CCA - Thank you. Nukes will not be thrown by anyone. The only scenario where nukes are enabled is Doomsday for the AI. They can't nuke me so I won't nuke them.

    Hermann Steiner - The Subs are old but they can still make Transport fleets run away. This makes them very useful at stopping the Allies invading undefended islands. They are also fairly good at providing intelligence at times so I won't be throwing them away.

    Monthly update to follow ...

  4. #324
    Update (September 1st 1944)






    0000 Spetember 1st 1944.
    Imperial Palace. Tokyo, Japan.
    "Good morning your Highness, Gentlemen. We will start with Diplomacy today. Hopefully you have better news from Europe this month Foreign Minister." Hideki began the meeting.

    "Your Highness. Gentlemen, good morning." Mamoru began. "Unfortunately the news from Europe is not good."

    "Our European Allies are losing and badly. German forces continue to lose ground rapidly and their Armed Forces are being destroyed at an alarming rate. Romania is at the point of total collapse with Finland not far behind. The only bright point in the entire region is that the British have been almost contained in northern Italy. Both Soviet and Allied troops are no more than two weeks away from Berlin."

    "Current ground strength makes for particularly bad reading. Whilst our own forces are completely stable the same cannot be said for our allies. They lost one hundred and fourteen divisions in July but they managed to eclipse that by losing a further one hundred and fifteen in August. Japan is now the senior force in regards to ground and naval forces in the Axis. We can look forward to having the undivided attention of the Allies in the not too distant future. There is nothing else to add really.

    Our own trades are going as well as can be expected with some energy trades slowly reducing our losses. The Soviets cancelled all of their trades with us and I will attempt to restart those again during September. Venezuela is probably our best trading partner and is likely to remain so. I will continue to acquire any technology from our allies that I can before they totally collapse. That is all." concluded Mamoru.

    "Not the sort of start to the meeting I was hoping for and certainly bad news. Minister Kuniaki do you have any better news on the Intelligence front?" asked Hideki.

    "Your Majesty, Gentlemen. No major news just some standard intelligence updates, which are not particularly accurate but are the best I can provide without funding." replied Kuniaki.

    "The Soviet Union have acquired an additional twenty three factory complexes from their advance into Germany and the Balkans. Their industry is now almost as productive as that of the United States.

    The numbers are not all that accurate as they have definately not lost over one and fifty infantry divisions in a month. Their ground forces are still the largest in the World with no sign of any other Country closing the gap. Fortunately their Navy is still of little consequence."

    "The United Kingdom have also seen a small increase in their industrial output.

    Our intelligence is not good at all with regards to this enemy and the numbers are probably not even close in most cases. They show an increase of almost twenty infantry divisions and two armoured for ground forces. One extra bomber squadron. A gain of four Aircraft carriers and a loss of six Battleships. The Naval losses are easy to cross reference and they have not lost even one Battleship let alone six."

    "The United States have also gained some industrial output from captured territory. Slightly less than the Soviets but not by much.

    Their infantry strength has remained constant but apparently they built an additional ten armoured divisions. Its possible but not likely.

    The United States Navy has a constant number for Battleships and Carriers. As long as they built at least one Carrier these numbers are close to last month. The only major difference is the drop in smaller ships of forty two. We can verify a lot of these losses by checking our own reports on ships sunk. Their small ships are certainly taking a beating at the hands of both the Imperial Japanese Navy and Air Force.

    I have not included an up to date report on Nationalist China this month as it is really not worth noting. They are dieing and fairly quickly as I am sure our Armed Forces ministers will point out. We have captured most of their industry and they no longer pose much, if any threat.

    We should begin some technological advances this month but these will continue to be slow to arrive. Nothing further." concluded Kuniaki.

    "Thank you Minister Kuniaki. We shall move on to Armed Forces with a round up of the ground position first."

    "Your majesty, Gentlemen. Good morning." began Satoru. "The Minister for Intelligence provided an insight into the current situation in China but I will start with Burma."

    "Some reinforcements have now arrived on the Siamese border to improve our own situation a little. The only thing this will do is slow the British down as they still have far superior numbers and technology in the area. The terrain, and a nice move by the Yunnanese, are slowing the British down considerably. Once their forces are all mustered at the front though we shall be forced to withdraw again without further strengthening of our forces. This is not planned until China, both Nationalist and Communist, are destroyed. We wish to keep one strong front to conclude that war as quickly as we can before moving on to another."

    "The situation in China is very good. We captured the Nationalists capital during August and are currently advancing to improve our postion in the north. We should capture the Yunnanese capital within a week which may well force them to be annexed by their puppet master. Nationalist China has been completely isolated from its puppet regimes to the west and we are currently trying to increase the territory caught in the center by moving north to also surround Communist China. We can then crush both at once as we shrink the pocket.

    Advancing west into the mountains and marshes is going to take a very long time, several months at least, and this can be done after we occupy the center with a significantly smaller force. Air support should allow us to move almost unhindered once we begin this process.

    Six new infantry divisions have just become available and they will be moved to China to strengthen the east and south a little to enable us to reduce the pocket at a higher speed. We can only produce so many troops for now and these are all needed urgently in many places. We will soon have to look towards strengthening the border with the Soviet Union and this will require a fairly large deployment of troops. A strategy for slowing the Soviets down, should they decide to come our way, is being devised, but it is unlikely that we could stop them totally if they send the majority of their forces. We shall do all that we can of course.

    I will hand you over to the Chief of the Navy for a briefing on the Pacific and some loss reports." concluded Satoru.

    "Your Highness. Good morning Gentlemen. We are slowly winning the war of attrition in the Pacific but that will likely change once we become the only target for the Allies." Osami began.

    "There has been little change in territory over the last month with only some small gains in New Guinea for the Americans. They have continually attempted to make landings in the Marianas all of which ended in defeat for them. Their Transport fleet in particular is suffering huge casualties although they are now escorting these fleets to some degree. There is a chance that we could make some advances in the Pacific but it would be risky to try and do so.

    The United States Navy have almost no undamaged Carriers that we know of and some of their Battleships are also badly damaged. Yamamoto believes it could be possible for us to retake Wake Island, which is no longer defended, and possibly even advance into the Marshalls. Even if we did this we could not hold the islands gained as we are already stretched a little to thinly elsewhere. Making these advances now, while most of the United States Army is in Europe, is probably the only chance we will get for some considerable time.

    We did think about this option but it was decided to use the new divisions in China instead to hasten the end of that front. We will therefore continue to play a defensive game in the Pacific and hope to further our current success in the region.

    There is one piece of fairly bad news in the area. A very large British fleet has shown up between the Philippines and the Marianas. Its current heading places it heading for Saipan but we do not know its full intentions. It would be nice to sink this fleet but the only way we could do that is to use the entire Combined Fleet which is not possible at this time. Yamamoto will not engage this fleet with his own Battleships as it is likely to be far to bloody if he does. We do not have the capacity to replace our losses like the Allies do and so we will be content with causing what damage we can by using aircraft alone.

    Should a major invasion fleet also show up with this Battleship fleet then we will lose an island or two. Better to temporarily lose a little territory than risk losing most of the Imperial Japanese Navy.

    Losses for the last month have been very one sided and are as follows:

    Japanese Losses

    2 x Submarine Flotillas - 9 and 10 Sensuikantai.

    Siamese Losses

    1 x Light Cruiser.
    1 x Destroyer Flotilla.

    United Kingdom Losses

    3 x Transport Flotillas.

    United States Losses

    2 x Aircraft Carriers.
    4 x Light Carriers.
    1 x Heavy Cruiser.
    4 x Submarine Divisions.
    11 x Light Cruisers.
    2 x Destroyer Divisions.
    12 x transport Divsions.

    Intelligence estimated forty two American small ships losses. The actual number was thirty four. The loss of two more Aircraft Carriers, with several more damaged, is causing problems for our enemy. Still no sign of their Battleship fleets at all.

    Yamamoto wishes to move his own fleet to Indonesia this month as there has been an increase in naval activity through this area in recent weeks. Our Carrier fleet is still waiting for more escorts before it becomes a viable force but could use some of the small spare capacity on our Battleship fleets once those ships are repaired. Our tactics will remain unaltered for the coming month, concentrating on hit and run with superior intelligence provided by our aircraft. We have no intention of engaging in any major sea battles that could cause significant damage to our fleets. Nothing more from me.” concluded Osami.

    “Anything for the Imperial Japanese Airforce?” asked Hideki.

    “Your Majesty. Nothing much. We have begun the construction of additional Tactical bomber squadrons to increase our bombing capacity. These aircraft were chosen because of their flexiblity. Our naval bombers are beginning to suffer unacceptable losses and will need to rest soon. Nothing more.” concluded Jun.

    “Industry then please.”

    “Your Majesty, Gentlemen. Good morning.” began Ginjiro. “The bomber squadrons already mentioned will lead to almost no spare industrial capacity to reinforce damaged forces and certainly none to upgrade any. Additionally there will be no additonal supplies available for any type of offensive supply for the time being. Apparently you Gentlemen decided the aircraft are more important right now.”

    “Our Industrial output has increased slightly due to the capture of some Chinese factories. This will increase a little more as we make more of these facilities available.

    Stockpiles have improved, mostly due to the capture of Chongqing. Energy is still a major concern and continues to fall at a fast rate. Other resources have eased considerably and there are no real worries with any of them although oil is still low.

    Manpower is sufficient for our current production needs. We will begin research into a more advanced infantry division once spare research capacity becomes available, this means that we will probably only raise another twelve of our current model.

    Transport capacity is slightly strained as troops are redeployed to Burma and a few are also moved around China. It is considerably quicker to use trains than to march across most of China.

    Some new ships and troops are due in October, at which point I will switch the production to reinforcements and upgrades as I can. Nothing to add.” concluded Ginjiro.

    “Japanese forces appear to be the only ones within our alliance that have a superior fighting spirit. We shall take on the World if need be to ensure our continued survival as an independant Nation. Continue on with your excellent work Gentlemen.” Hirohito said as he stood and left his audience chamber.

  5. #325
    The Grand God of Fried Eggs Simon-1979's Avatar

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    well done!!!
    well what can I say besides that......oh the germans are really in deep whats it called" but it could be worse i guess....feb 45 and i think they are toast.....would mean by say april 45 you need those chinese finished....and be able to build up a looooong front against the USSR....urgh....you have to keep pounding those chinese!

    you made my day Remble - thanx!

  6. #326
    First Lieutenant Cpt Rossi's Avatar

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    Any thought of building forts across the top of Korea to hold the russians off.

  7. #327
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    By the look of things he can't really spare the IC for even one level of fortifications, unless they are already in the build qeue.
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  8. #328
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    I am glad you are taking a Conservative approach to your situation, Remble. There's nothing worse than losing expensive ships just for the sake of sand piles in the Pacific. The same goes for your air force. Don't bother with kamikazes, they just don't work.
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  9. #329
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    Mmm, it looks like Germany will be out of the war before Japan can defeat the China's... interesting...
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  11. #331
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    I agree with you Remble that Chinese are priority targets, It would be good if you'd manage to push them out of the war before Germany falls and massive Soviet numbers are moved to the eastern front.
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  12. #332
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    What is happening in Europe is a mixture of a tragedy and comedy, don't you think? Army Group Kurland is holding out like in RL, but without one single soldier! From what I've seen before, and what I see here, there's no event that makes Finland DoW Germany. Hmph!

    It would be good if the armies in China became ready for duty elsewhere, but there is one active front in Burma, one sporadic front in the Pacific, and one large future front in Manchuria and Mongolia. There's just too few troops to sit back and relax!

    Something tells me this would be a terrible AAR if it was so.
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  13. #333
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    It looks as if their Germans will soon have to change their taste from Sauerkraut to Borsh.

    If Yunnan is annexed by National China, it will take you quite some time to annex National China.

    Yunnan almost entirely consists of VP-provinces (except for the most south-eastern part). To make matters worse, Lashio is also a VP-province. So National China won't be annexed until you mount an offensive against the British.

    So much for the plan, to keep the warlords as buffer states. Murphy was right: A plan never survives contact with reality.

  14. #334
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    The race for Berlin is on ... I'll place my bet on the Yanks, the Red Bear might focus too much on the Balkan axis. I think the Brits will annex Croatia.

    I also hope that the Kriegsmarine will go to you mostly intact when the Germans are annexed; extra ships should help you a lot (if you can actually get them to Japan). Maybe try for a Military Access from Spain?

  15. #335
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    It might not be so bad if he could trigger the Chinese surrender event.

    trigger = {
    control = { province = 1235 data = JAP } # Nanjing
    control = { province = 1237 data = JAP } # Shanghai
    control = { province = 1238 data = JAP } # Hanzhou
    #lost_VP = { country = CHI value = 75 }
    lost_national = { country = CHI value = 85 }
    #lost_IC = { country = CHI value = 50 }
    NOT = {
    war = { country = SOV country = JAP }}
    random = 50
    }
    date = { day = 0 month = january year = 1936 }
    offset = 10
    deathdate = { day = 29 month = december year = 1947 }
    So unless Remble disabled that trigger he can make the Chinese surrender soon. It would allow him to annex all but Communist China and the farthest west warlord (if im not mistaken).

    So crush the Chinese into submission before Germany's gone.

  16. #336
    I've read your last amazing AAR, it took me some time as a non native speaker, but it was worth it. This AAR is also very good and you did a great job so far.
    I've never seen such a bad German AI. But it will also make it more exciting.
    I'll place my bets on the sowjets.
    Do you still need the Air Force in China? If not, you could use it against the RN Fleet.
    Why don't you build Militia as a cheap coast guard in provinces with hostile terrain?
    It could free normal INF for offensive operations.
    When you finsh China, is there a plan to make an invasion behind the british troops to cut them off from the supply lines?

  17. #337
    I am the Law Sokraates's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Panzer6
    It might not be so bad if he could trigger the Chinese surrender event.

    So unless Remble disabled that trigger he can make the Chinese surrender soon. It would allow him to annex all but Communist China and the farthest west warlord (if im not mistaken).

    So crush the Chinese into submission before Germany's gone.
    If the event is still active, the only condition missing seems to be the capture of 85% of National China's territory. But maybe the conditions have already been met and the event simply hasn't fired yet.

  18. #338
    Alien Space Bat PrawnStar's Avatar
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    It only just seems like your German AAR finished and here you are 17 pages into a new one!

    Fascinating as always and you're developing a nice sense of waiting for the hammer to fall when Germany goes down.

    Oh yeah, congratulations on having so much time on your hands

  19. #339
    First Lieutenant SoulStealer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sokraates
    This is true, but a fleet without carriers (here: the British) will want to close at all costs. Carriers act as flagships and thus order their fleet to keep a distance, since that's their way of fighting.

    So if both fleets have carriers, they will fight at maximum distance. If a fleet has no carriers or if its carriers are destroyed, the next "strongest" shiptype takes over (battlerships, then light carriers, then battlecruisers, etc IIRC) and those will usually want to close the distance (except for light carriers).

    So here the British fleet will want to close the distance while the Japanese (with carriers) would want to fight from afar. Closing the distance usually works rather well even for fleets with inferior positioning (as seen in Rembles last AAR), so the British should be able to do so quickly.
    Kind of what I was getting at. But you have to think that while it might be effective against that fleet, he wants to close with the American carriers with his battleships. Further, it is infinitely more fun watching him adapt to every crisis without ueberpwnz0r methods like huge carrier stacks versus battleship fleets.

  20. #340
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrawnStar
    It only just seems like your German AAR finished and here you are 17 pages into a new one!
    only Remble can get seventeen pages in three weeks...
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