Would there be any interest in this?

[rcduggan]

yes, I would love that. I could add more tags to Vicky and make it even better (hard to do)... the possibilities are endless.

I think it's an awesome idea.

[P3D]

Definitely a GREAT idea.

It is very frustrating to see that the game experience could be improved with only a few line changes in the code - changes that the next patch won't contain.

[Dysken]

yes, I would love that. I could add more tags to Vicky and make it even better (hard to do)... the possibilities are endless.

I think it's an awesome idea.

Not to mention more POP types, more factories, more RGOs. *faints*

[BiB]

Cool idea.

[jordarkelf]

This is a very cool idea and I hope something comes off it. Unfortunately I have no real coding skills to speak off, so I won't be able to directly participate in this.

[hildoceras]

The main reason why I would have preferred, a "no strings attached" approach to the one chosen. Is not because I don't want to pay paradox 5 or 10 €, I would happily pay double that, just to get the source code. It's mostly because I fear that they will demand results, and a finished product.

the open question is the content of the contract between Paradox and SoandSo.
It must be legal in all the countries involved (knowing that Paradox has few lawiers outside Sweden and USA, I'd guess).
It must protect Paradox
It must protect the other part.
For instance, what happens if one of the parts disappears suddenly. Whose property is the work already produced or ceded ? What happens to its distribution ?

From info I got from a lead developer, in France it could be a contract between Paradox and a moral person (person representing a society, might be his own) as both an "apporteur d'affaires" (sort of broker, independant person bringing deals and getting a commission -on the sells on Gamersgate for instance-) and also as an outsourcer (to allow him to get code to transform it and produce another code when Paradox will still retain all rights).
Paradox would get the lion's share but it might still be interesting for the worker.

The problem would be the fiscal declaration of the worker, especially if he declares himself as a liberal profession, and also if his own actual job regulates the jobs he can takes outside his own.
But it's no longer Paradox' problem

[Fiendix]

yes lovely idea - there would be a couple of issues like NDAs for the people that test the "new" games - how would that work. I cant code but can test MP games?

[hildoceras]

I guess that the Paradox's NDAs are only on the source codes.
To test a new made game you'd have the programmer's NDA if any as you'd have only the executable program

[SwordOfJustice]

What a wonderful idea! As a former professional programmer who is now making a HOI2 mod, yeah I'm really interested. As long as the contract terms are decent, of course. From my point of view, I'd want some modest royalty to compensate for the many hours of work and also Paradox IP to be protected and them to be compensated as well. I'm a fan of Paradox and I want them to flourish as a company so they can keep making games I like.

I would sign up for it depending on the game system offered. But by the time I finish the Fallout mod for HOI2DDA I might have already expended all my passion and spare time for this kind of project. But certainly the idea is very appealing. The mod I'm doing would be well served by being able to change the source code at times, or at least looking inside it.

By the way, I see mods as real 'win-win' for Paradox as some of them do so much to enhance the enjoyment of the original game and extend it's 'game life'. For example, Magna Mundi was so appealing to me as a history buff that I went out and bought EU3 because of it. And it has not disappointed. PI spend so many man hours making a great, working game, and then the MM team spent that extra amount of time to add so much more historical detail.

I note with joy that there seemed to be additional attention paid by Paradox to modding support in EU3. Increasing support for modders in any new games released, through offering more control over the game behaviour and a more powerful event engine for example, can only be a good thing. It allows fans to make even more wonderful mods that add to the original game.

So this idea is simply the next step in that process. Very interesting and wonderful!! I hope it comes to pass in a successful form.

What would be the model for it though? Some ideas are better than others. Some would sell, some would not. With a mod, it's all free so anyone can try it out without obligation.

Maybe one of these fan made games could be offered for sale and if it did not sell, then be moved to a free public download as a mod? Or perhaps Paradox should screen applicants for this source code access? They could ask for a design brief, and only give the go ahead to solid proposals that might work out.

An open approach where anyone could sign up for it and make whatever they want would be the most creative, but how would the end result be distributed is the real question. I imagine there is a cost to host a product for sale via Gamersgate. Or do they just get a cut for each sale? If it's the latter, then I suppose there doesn't need be any screening, if someone makes something it can just be put up whether it's good, bad or indifferent.

Interesting stuff, Johan, really thinking 'outside the square'.


Cheers,
Sword

[ForzaA]

Whoa!

Now to determine what to vote
...I think I'll go with the safe vote (I need more time in a day, can someone release the source code for THAT please? ) and say "I look forward to this".

[leggbros]

I think this is a superb idea! Although I have almost not coding skills at all (almost), if a collaborative effort were to take place to improve vicky, I would like to submit my name to volunteer to be a beta tester, as I'm sure they would be needed in some capacity. Congrats Paradox, this is a very progressive idea and I applaud you for it.

[SkyElf]

Been a long time since I did any programing in college, C+, Cobal, could do research if I have the time.

[YodaMaster]

From info I got from a lead developer, ...

Are you sure I am only a lead developer?

I owned my company and part of its activities was software editing.

[Snake IV]

Most excellent!

This should boost the sales of old Paradox games for one thing. It should provide neat mods too.

Will this apply for Diplomacy? I have thought about the future of the Diplomacy community as of late. I have predicted the final death of the community for sometime this spring if something doesn't happen, and have thought to propose emmigration to my fellow stabbers. If Diplomacy can be inproved, it could at least be eaiser for us to get some old timers back, and propagating in DIplomacy circles for the version of the game will be possible.

[Doomtrader]

I need to say that the idea it self looks very promising and is really great. But I think that the community should be little less enthusiastic. I'm reading that some of the people would like to make some changes here and there, but I need to say that not too many people will pay for little more type of POPs or for little more TAGs. So the changes must be big ones.
I don't know which game's engines are going to be sold ( I don't think HoI2 will) but it's something bigger than modding. Who is going to play somehow updated Victoria if Victoria 2 is probably rigth behind corner.
Completly new games will have to be created. Is few tweaks here and there worth buying whole game? How many of EU 2 based games people are going to have? Five, ten, more? I don't think so. You will buy one or two and see that those changes are not worth it. Maybe some mods are going to be released with few lines of code allowing to do something. But are you willing to pay 5$ for AGCEEP if you can have it for free? I'm not.
If somebody will create a fantasy world based on hoi2 engine with dragons, elves, dwarves etc then I'm going to buy it. But it needs to be good one. At least as good as fantasy general and better than mentioned above FODD.

Don't count on making and selling small mods or patches. Paradox wants you to make new games for them (what I understand). So find two programmers, five graphic guys, five designers, five to ten researchers and two hundrets of betas and you can participate in the program. You can then make your own game.
I need to say it again. Idea is great and many kudos to Paradox for that but consider it.

[Foxbat]

Whoa, I wasn't expected that. I would love to work on some games based on HoI/HoI2(expanded map, improved naval/air battles, more of everything :drools: ) and waht's even better, I studied C/C++, thus I voted Yes, I'd like to join, and code my own game. Though obviously we need some info on what sorts of projects could we work on(only boosters and expansion packs? no brand new games, like Cold War strategy game, Vietnam strategy/tactics real-time wargame and e.t.c.?).

[hildoceras]

once you have the motor engine, your only limits are time and enough pizza to survive

[Pishtaco]

We would sell everything through gamersgate and own the copyright. All code developed would be accessible for those in the program.

We had the following assets.

* A game-engine that strategygames can be built in, with several version for various game-types.
* A distribution system where amount of sales is irrelevant for being distributed at all, that scales nicely.
* A large community of people that wants to make their own dreams come true.

I worry a bit about the financial side. I wonder what the community response will be to now having to pay for things that look like patches and mods.

And how will the pricing work? Will people be able to set prices for their own work? And if "all code developed would be accessible for those in the program", what's to stop someone else releasing your work for less money?

But assuming that happy solutions are worked out to things like this, I'm intrigued and possibly thrilled. Sign me up.

[Lord Ederon]

And if "all code developed would be accessible for those in the program", what's to stop someone else releasing your work for less money?

Contract?

[Pishtaco]

Contract?

Maybe, but it does look like there's a conflict between the code being accessible and others not being able to use it. I suppose it could work like this: simple changes are going to be re-used and will appear in cheap mods; but the contract does not allow modders to explicitly copy large chunks of code from each other, without permission. Perhaps this is what the relevant copyright laws already say.