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Thread: Tribal Escape MicroMod

  1. #1
    Major Amob_m_s's Avatar
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    Tribal Escape MicroMod

    TRIBAL ESCAPE MICROMOD (TEM)
    The three tribal government types (despotism, democracy, and federation) are in vanilla EU3 a closed circle- they cannot convert to any other government type. This frustrates many players, as these governments have significant drawbacks, notably extreme technological backwardsness.

    The common solution for this problem is for players to modify their game files so that "Tribal Despotisms" can convert to "Despotic Monarchies." However, this does not model accurately the significant upheaval that the abandonment of tribal mentality would bring to a society. In other words, it's too easy- one might even call it a cheat.

    This micromod is a side project of mine aiming to allow for a realistic transition from tribal to nontribal societal structures. Basically, the transition works in five stages:

    ----------------------------
    Stage one- Tribal government----------------------------
    Stage two- A strong monarch begins reforms, but this causes great upheaval. Revolts and low stability are common. Note that the nation is still "tribal" type now.
    ----------------------------
    Stage three- The monarch (or a decent successor if the original died) succeeds in forcing through his reforms. While some revolts remain to be mopped up, the government is now a "Semitribal" type, in which tribal ties are still important on a personal and cultural basis, but the government now has broader power over the nation as a whole. Stability issues begin to resolve themselves over time, and the nation returns to a period of normalcy.
    ~~
    An alternative occurs if the leader dies, and his heir is weak. The reforms could fail, so the nation would remain in it's original tribal type, and even worse stability issues would result.

    ---------------------------
    Stage four- A strong monarch sees the surviving tribal ties, though weakened, as a threat to the progress of the nation. He initiates reforms aimed to eliminate most tribal differences. Another period of rebellion and instability must be weathered.
    ---------------------------
    Stage five- The monarch or a strong successor succeeds, and the tribal affiliation becomes insignificant. The nation becomes a normal, non-tribal state, unified after years of struggle.
    ~~
    Should a mediocre successor inherit the throne while the time of testing is still underway, the nation may remain semitribal, and have some serious stability issues for years to come.
    ~~
    Should a poor monarch succeed the reformer before the reform is completed, the nation may crash back into tribalism, and horrible trials of instability await.

    ----------------------------

    After some or all of these stages are completed, a few other events may occur for certain groups to further "modernize" them. There are two basic types here- religious and scientific.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Religious events can begin to take place once a nation is Semitribal, but are far more likely when they completely escape tribalism. They come in two forms- Christianicization and Pagan Reform. Christianicization offers an event chain by which pagans can convert to Christianity, first as "Protestants" (yes, I know this isn't completely accurate, just bear with me for a moment). Then the Pope gets a chance to invite them into Catholicism, which they can accept or decline.
    ~~
    Pagan Reform events give Pagans another option- to add structure and heirarchy to tribal churches in order to create a well-defined religion. Animists can become Pantheonic, and Shamanists can become Mystic religion. These new religions are annex = no, so that Christians can't steal land anymore. Both Christianicization and Pagan Reform create a good deal of strife for a short time in the nation.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Scientific Renaissance events give nations that have completely escaped tribalism a chance to catch up a bit in technology. Once a "renaissance" has begun, (this isn't too common,) the nation will from time to time get "Discovery" events, adding money to a certain research field, speeding progress in that area. Less likely are events which raise the tech group of Renaissance nations, allowing for faster tech growth in all areas. Again, don't expect to see overpowered tribal nations, as these events are not too common, and also require successful completion of the entire government reform chain. It simply means that some tribal nations will not be as woefully underpowered as their neighbors, and may stand a chance of resisting European expansionism for some time.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The paths to nontribalism:

    Tribal Despotism -> Semitribal Monarchy -> Feudal Monarchy
    Tribal Federation -> Semitribal Confederation -> Noble Republic
    Tribal Democracy -> Semitribal Republic -> Administrative Republic


    This micromod is not yet completed, but I would like to get some volunteers for playtesting, as well as some feedback on my ideas before I release it.

    Also note that this is not my top priority at the moment. I am a part of the Ribelanto minimod team, and as such must devote most of my modding time to that project. However, sometimes I get bored with my Ribelanto duties (synthesizing the work of other modders) and work on this project instead, so it shouldn't be *too* long until this is completed.



    For anyone who reads code, here's a section of my work to sample:

    Code:
    #This event puts a nation into the "tribal reforms" stage.
    
    country_event = {
    
    	id = 79000
    
    	trigger = {
    		OR = {
    			government = tribal_despotism
    			government = tribal_federation
    			government = tribal_democracy
    		}
    		NOT = { 
    			OR = {
    				has_country_modifier = TEM_tribal_reform 
    				regency = yes
    			}
    		}
    		OR = {
    			adm = 6
    			mil = 7
    		}
    	}
    	mean_time_to_happen = {
    		months = 240
    
    		modifier = {
    			factor = 0.9
    			adm = 7
    		}
    		modifier = {
    			factor = 0.8
    			adm = 8
    		}
    		modifier = {
    			factor = 0.8
    			mil = 8
    		}
    		modifier = {
    			factor = 0.9
    			dip = 7
    		}
    		modifier = {
    			factor = 1.1
    			NOT = { dip = 5 }
    		}
    		modifier = {
    			factor = 1.1
    			NOT = { advisor = statesman }
    		}
    		modifier = {
    			factor = 0.9
    			stability = 1
    		}
    		modifier = {
    			factor = 0.9
    			stability = 3
    		}
    		modifier = {
    			factor = 1.2
    			NOT = { stability = 0 }
    		}
    		modifier = {
    			factor = 1.2
    			religion = animism
    		}
    		modifier = {
    			factor = 1.1
    			religion = shamanism
    		}
    		modifier = {
    			factor = 0.9
    			infantry = 10
    		}
    		modifier = {
    			factor = 1.3
    			AND = {
    				NOT = { infantry = 2 } 
    				NOT = { cavalry = 2 }
    			}
    		}
    	}
    
    	title = "Government Reformations"
    	desc = "Our nation- a term used loosely- consists of many feuding tribes. This fact has held back our progress significantly. Now, a strong leader has emerged who could lead our nation into a period of unprecedented unity and growth. This centralization, however, will surely be difficult to achieve, as traditionalists will resist with all of their force. Should these reforms be attempted, a time of testing lies ahead. However, if successful, a new government, stronger and more unified, may emerge."
    
    	option = {
    		name = "Fight for Progress"
    		ai_chance = { factor  = 45 }
    		stability = -4
    		manpower = -750
    		add_country_modifier = TEM_tribal_reform
    		random_owned = {create_revolt = 2}
    		random_owned = {create_revolt = 1}
    	}
    	option = {
    		name = "Remain Traditional"
    		ai_chance = { factor = 55 }
    		stability = -1
    		prestige = -10
    	}
    				
    }
    
    # This event changes a nation in the "Gov't Reformations" stage to a semitribal government. This is the despotism->monarchy event
    
    country_event = {
    
    	id = 79001
    
    	trigger = {
    		AND = { 
    			government = tribal_despotism
    			has_country_modifier = TEM_tribal_reform
    			ADM = 5
    		}
    	}
    	
    	mean_time_to_happen = {
    		months = 70
    
    		modifier = {
    			factor = 0.9
    			ADM = 7
    		}
    		modifier = {
    			factor = 0.8
    			ADM = 8
    		}
    		modifier = {
    			factor = 0.9
    			MIL = 6
    		}
    		modifier = {
    			factor = 0.8
    			MIL = 8
    		}
    		modifier = {
    			factor = 0.7
    			stability = 0
    		}
    		modifier = {
    			factor = 0.7
    			stability = 2
    		}
    		modifier = {
    			factor = 1.2
    			NOT = { stability = -2 }
    		}
    		modifier = {
    			factor = 1.3
    			AND = {
    				NOT = { infantry = 2 } 
    				NOT = { cavalry = 2 }
    			}
    		}
    		modifier = {
    			factor = 0.9
    			infantry = 10
    		}
    		modifier = {
    			factor = 0.9
    			cavalry = 5
    		}		
    		modifier = {
    			factor = 0.8
    			cavalry = 10
    		}	
    	}
    
    	name = "Succeeding Reforms"
    	desc = "The time of reform has been a success. Despite many challenges, the country has pulled itself together under a new, more stable, semi-tribal government. Now, although a man's tribal or clan affiliation matters greatly, on a nationwide scale government pays less attention to such differences. The country is settling down, but there will still be some revolts to mop up."
    
    	option = {
    		name = "Excellent"
    		ai_chance = { factor  = 100 }
    		government = semitribal_monarchy
    		stability = 1
    		clr_country_modifier = TEM_tribal_reform
    		random_owned = {create_revolt = 1 }
    	}
    }
    Last edited by Amob_m_s; 05-01-2008 at 21:10.
    AAR: Rise of Tahuantinsuyo (Inca) Hegemony in America. Abandoned; the final update is up, taking it to 1522.

    Mod Projects: EU3 Tribal Escape Micromod (TEM) , EU3 Modifier Tweaks Experiment , The HoI Alternative History Pack


    Hope is the strongest liquor.

  2. #2
    I like your ideas of making it harder to transition from tribal to non-tribal governments but i have a few concerns. Forgive me if any of my comments bother you, its just my opinions. So far this would be the only tribal mod that makes it difficult to change from tribal (that i know of), so this will be a good thing.

    Other than the Inca (and possibly aztecs), I dont know of any pagan nation that historicly made a 'modern' or improved type of government. As you probably know, the Inca had a very organized and complex government by the time they had thier civil war and war with Spain. This, as you probably know, was done with no european contact. Most other pagan nations that I know of (historicly), seem to prefer to remain with thier roots, as they were. most of them saw no need to change (IMO). I believe it is plausible to have other pagan nations do what the Inca did but I think it should be uncommon. The major factor for government change, IMO, should be due to the stress, plagues, and wars caused once pagans meet non-pagan nations. All of these things would force the pagan nations to change in some manner to exist, therefore government change is much more plausible when pagan nations meet non-pagan nations.
    so, my main point here is that I think the events need to rely heavily on whether or not the pagan nation has nearby non-pagan nations.

    I must say you shed some light on some of the sillyness of my events in Terra Nova. Right now, I have events that simulate the plagues that happen soon after a pagan nation meets a non-pagan nation. These events change the government also. As you point out, these government changes should not always work. So, I am going to eventualy try to rework the events so that there is chances of the pagan nations reverting back to tribalism for at least a generation (50 years). anyway, thanks for this idea.

    When you feel this mod is ready to be listed in the master mod list, let me know in that thread. please also let me know if you stop working on this mod so i can move it to a inactive section in the list.

  3. #3
    Spur of Percheron Geoffrey's Avatar
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    I have my reservations about making the transition too difficult, and I agree with Darken about making it too easy (as it is in Deconstructed today). But I have to say that I'm really liking the transitional government thing. I'm going to have to see how this comes out as I just may want to steal it.
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  4. #4
    General kolmy's Avatar
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    You may want to look at this, it may be a nice help.
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  5. #5
    Field Marshal jdrou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darken
    Other than the Inca (and possibly aztecs), I dont know of any pagan nation that historicly made a 'modern' or improved type of government.
    What about non-pagan tribals like mameluks, qara koyunlu, ethiopia, crimea, etc.?
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  6. #6
    Major Amob_m_s's Avatar
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    Thanks for the feedback, everyone.

    DARKEN: You're right, I anticipate tweaking the AI preferences on all the events after playtesting. They are intentionally high right now so that I can see the effects of the events on the AI- while turmoil is good, I don't want "End of Tribalism" events to create free-for-all land grabs by the neighbors.

    As for your concern about pagan nations, I may increase the modifier factors for pagan nations: Right now they slightly decrease the chance of pagans undergoing such changes, but I may need to make it even rarer.

    GEOFFREY: You're welcome to use as much as you like in your mod, and tweak whatever you want to make these events easier or harder.

    KOLMY: Thanks for the link. His work is quite similar to mine, it seems, but I wanted an even more challenging transition- a leader who wanted to anull tribalism would have had to fight tremendous odds, and really be quite a genius to pull it of. (Examples being Pachacuti Earth-Shaker for the Inca, Chinghis Khan for Mongolia, the respective leaders of the Iroquois tribes who compiled their constitution, etc.)

    JDROU: This is why the pagan religions are modifiers- so that non-pagans can undergo the events, and are even more likely to have them, as a strong, non-nationalistic religion can influence them towards order. (To clarify- while paganism did not necessarily impede progress, it tended to be nationally unique; the Incas were the only worshippers of their exact pantheon, and so on. Christianity and Islam, on the other hand, transcended nationality, thus there was a pull by this greater organization for internal organization within the nations.)
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    Hope is the strongest liquor.

  7. #7
    General kolmy's Avatar
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    A nice idea would be having a concept of society, which would work more or less the same as the national identity, but a little more complex. For example, two similar societies, if they both find each other, it's easier for them to trade ideas (and other stuff, like technology, culture and even religion, but specially the government ideas). This is quite historical, see the example of Japan, the Meiji Restoration, where Japan changed his government to match his European counterparts and therefor, get benefits from it.

    [EDIT] And remember, the change of government it's also tied to a technological development, so you might want to connect those two somehow. And also to religion, making it possible to convert to a annex = no pagan religion (this should be tied to the government anyway, but Paradox made it that way ), or even to a Christian religion.
    Last edited by kolmy; 02-01-2008 at 23:15.
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  8. #8
    Major Amob_m_s's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kolmy
    And also to religion, making it possible to convert to a annex = no pagan religion (this should be tied to the government anyway, but Paradox made it that way ), or even to a Christian religion.
    An excellent idea. I haven't done anything to simulate this yet, but I think now I will. Something like this:

    When you complete the Second Stage of my reform system, you get a "Internal Reform" country flag. You then have a chance to get a small religious reform event chain- one unlikely to happen when still semi-tribal, but much more common if you complete the government reform chain (ie get to Feudal Monarchy/ Noble Republic/ Admin Republic). Having a temple in your realm would increase the chances, as that is a sign of religious organization which can be built off of. The result of these reforms would make your nation into either the "Pantheonic" (Animist) or "Mystic" (Shamanist) religion (working name) which represent highly organized religions under a well-defined theological code. These would be annex = no, as to have them would require both higher gov't organization (at least semitribal) and higher social reform.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I've also been considering another idea:

    I will release the version I've talked about so far in this thread, as it will be the easiest to incorporate into a mod. However, there will also be a version which has history file changes- ie Incan Empire would be a Semitribal Monarchy from the start, as this more closely describes their government. I may also include a couple country-specific event chains, such as an Iroquois Constitution chain that would allow the Iroquios (if they meet historical conditions) to move to a Semitribal Confederation without so much upheaval.

    I'll need to playtest before I do this, but I may also boost the revolts to be even stronger and make reforms more likely to fail than the code in the OP has- right now it seems that although the AI may have some trouble, a human player would easily be able to handle the upheaval. I really want it to be a challenge, as it would have been IRL, so more revolts and stability costs may be on the way. Again, if I playtest it and find that they are already challenging, then I obviously won't do anything.
    Last edited by Amob_m_s; 04-01-2008 at 20:00.
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    Hope is the strongest liquor.

  9. #9
    Major Amob_m_s's Avatar
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    Here's another small teaser (Now expanded):

    Code:
    	name = "End of Tribalism"
    	desc = "These trying years of reform have been a success. Despite near destruction, 
    our nation has pulled together like never before. While there is still a little mopping up to do, 
    the major violence is over. We are now free of the hindrances of tribalism, and ready to grow as a new nation. 
    Great possibilities are open now- we could reform our religion, or perhaps hit a technological rennaisance. The sky is the limit."
    
    	option = {
    		name = "Brilliant"
    		ai_chance = { factor  = 100 }
    		government = feudal_monarchy
    		stability = 2
    		clr_country_modifier = Semitribal_Reform
    		add_coutry_flag = Escaped_Tribalism
    		random_owned = {create_revolt = 1 }
    	}
    }
    
    ## Later on in the code...
    
    	name = "Failed Reforms"
    	desc = "The reforms have failed. No progress has been made, and the stability of the country 
    has been disturbed for nothing. The best that can be said is that our previous reforms were not undone- 
    we remain semitribal. All that is left to do now is rebuild and wait for the situation to improve."
    
    	option = {
    		name = "Oh No!"
    		ai_chance = { factor  = 100 }
    		stability = -2
    		clr_country_modifier = Semitribal_Reform
    		random_owned = {create_revolt = 3}
    		random_owned = {create_revolt = 2}
    	}
    }
    
    ## Skipping ahead again...
    
    	name = "Totally Failed Reforms"
    	desc = "Disaster has struck. The reform movements started under previous rulers 
    created instability in our nation. Now, a poor ruler has come along, and the nation is 
    crashing down around him. Old tribal divisions are reawakened, and revolts ravage the countryside. 
    We are heading into a dark age, in a worse situation than we were to begin with. Truly, this is a time for lamentation."
    
    	option = {
    		name = "Heavens Help Us!"
    		ai_chance = { factor  = 100 }
    		government = tribal_democracy
    		stability = -6
    		clr_country_modifier = Semitribal_Reform
    		add_country_modifier = Failed_Tribal_Reforms
    		manpower = -1500
    		random_owned = {create_revolt = 3}
    		random_owned = {create_revolt = 3}
    		random_owned = {create_revolt = 3}
    	}
    }
    Last edited by Amob_m_s; 04-01-2008 at 22:08.
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    Hope is the strongest liquor.

  10. #10
    Major Amob_m_s's Avatar
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    I'm on a roll today.

    Religious sneak peek:

    Code:
    	name = "Christianity Moves In"
    	desc = "With Christians on our borders, missionaries have been infiltrating our nation for some time. They usually had little
    success, but now a particularly clever bunch has arrived. Groups of citizens have formed to worship this man-god, Jesus, and this has
    upset our religious leaders. They demand action. Our choices are to permit freedom of religion- this would anger the priests but keep 
    the people happy- to slaughter the dissidents - this would anger many but satisfy the priests - or embrace this new, structured religion, 
    
    and hope for good relations with the white men."
    
    	option = {
    		name = "Allow them to worship."
    		ai_chance = { factor = 25 }
    		innovative_narrowminded = -1
    		stability = -1
    		random_owned = { base_tax = -1 }
    	}
    	option = {
    		name = "Crush the heretics."
    		ai_chance = { factor = 60 }
    		innovative_narrowminded = 1
    		stability = -1
    		random_owned = { create_revolt = 2 }
    	}
    	option = {
    		name = "Convert to Christianity"
    		ai_chance = { factor = 15 }
    		stability = -3
    		religion = protestant
    		add_country_modifier = pagan_christian_converts
    		random_owned = {create_revolt = 3}
    		random_owned = {create_revolt = 3}
    	}
    
    ##########################
    ...later on...
    ##########################
    
    	trigger = {
    		tag = PAP
    		any_country = { has_country_modifier = pagan_christian_converts }
    	}
    	
    	mean_time_to_happen = {
    		months = 2
    	}
    
    	name = "New Converts"
    	desc = "A pagan nation in far-off lands has been introduced to the Word of the Lord. However, they have not embraced 
    Your Holiness's rule, but their own interpretation of Christ. It may be that they simply fear we would not accept them in our Church. 
    Shall we invite them to join in the Catholic- the Universal- Eucharist?
    
    	option = {
    		name = "We are all God's children"
    		add_country_flag = invite_pagan_converts
    	}
    	option = {
    		name = "Their sins are not forgiven"
    	}
    
    ###################
    ...and after that...
    ###################
    
    	name = "Invitation from the Pope"
    	desc = "We have converted to Christianity, but we have not yet embraced the rule of Rome. By Europeans, we are 
    considered Protestant. But now the Pope invites us into the Catholic Church. He tells us that he shall pardon us for our sin of 
    paganism, if only we acknowledge Rome's religious authority.
    
    	option = {
    		name = "This is excellent"
    		clr_country_modifier = pagan_christian_converts
    		add_country_modifier = Pagan_Catholic_Converts
    		religion = catholic
    		random_owned = { create_revolt = 1 }
    	}
    	option = {
    		name = "No, thank you."
    		clr_country_modifier = pagan_christian_converts
    		add_country_modifier = Pagan_Protestant_Converts
    	}
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    Hope is the strongest liquor.

  11. #11
    General kolmy's Avatar
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    I just gotta say that saying that certain nations had a "tribal" government it's kinda offensive. For example, the Incas were much more than a tribal country, some sort of monarchy, or the Aztecs, which were a tributary state with a no-hereditary autocrat. I'm not saying that their governments should allow covert to a normal government, but make the "tribal" group more accurate. It's just a case of name, and as this addresses this government issues, making the names other than "tribal something" seems fine.

    [EDIT] Your events have few revolts. A reform like this should provoke a great tumult, even a civil war in the country.
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    Major Amob_m_s's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kolmy
    I just gotta say that saying that certain nations had a "tribal" government it's kinda offensive. For example, the Incas were much more than a tribal country, some sort of monarchy, or the Aztecs, which were a tributary state with a no-hereditary autocrat. I'm not saying that their governments should allow covert to a normal government, but make the "tribal" group more accurate. It's just a case of name, and as this addresses this government issues, making the names other than "tribal something" seems fine.
    I was considering Incas and Aztecs "semitribal"- in local matters and personal relations, a person's tribal heritage did matter for these states. However, the government was not divided by tribe, so they aren't completely tribal.

    As far as what "Semitribal" means in-game, you basically have toned-down tribal effects. IE, rather than a 50% research reduction, you only get 30%. After playtesting, I may tweak this.

    Quote Originally Posted by kolmy
    Your events have few revolts. A reform like this should provoke a great tumult, even a civil war in the country.
    You're concern is valid, but I'd point out that you haven't seen everything. The events also give country modifiers, which dramatically increase revolt risks for the duration of the transition. (7% at the moment, probably higher after playtesting). My real problem as a modder is that in-game, I make sure that my RR stays as low as possible, and so I've never seen the kind of revolts that I'm trying to create here in my own experience- thus, I don't know exactly what RR value I need. Input here would be helpful.
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  13. #13
    General kolmy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amob_m_s
    I was considering Incas and Aztecs "semitribal"- in local matters and personal relations, a person's tribal heritage did matter for these states. However, the government was not divided by tribe, so they aren't completely tribal.

    As far as what "Semitribal" means in-game, you basically have toned-down tribal effects. IE, rather than a 50% research reduction, you only get 30%. After playtesting, I may tweak this.
    I was just saying that the term "tribal" it's kinda offensive, just suggesting a name change, not a pratical in-game change.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amob_m_s
    You're concern is valid, but I'd point out that you haven't seen everything. The events also give country modifiers, which dramatically increase revolt risks for the duration of the transition. (7% at the moment, probably higher after playtesting). My real problem as a modder is that in-game, I make sure that my RR stays as low as possible, and so I've never seen the kind of revolts that I'm trying to create here in my own experience- thus, I don't know exactly what RR value I need. Input here would be helpful.
    Well, I gotta say, 7% it's nothing. I guess it's counted as actually just 7% (so, 7 in 100, which it's extremely low), although I'm not sure. I don't know which value would be correct, but if you increase the number and intensity of revolts, it would be more simple.
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  14. #14
    Major Amob_m_s's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kolmy
    I was just saying that the term "tribal" it's kinda offensive, just suggesting a name change, not a pratical in-game change.
    I don't know, I never really saw anything offensive in it. I mean, it's just describing that in a "Tribal" government, the nation is actually many tribes unified by a weak overarching leadership and loose racial bonds. It doesn't imply unintelligence or anything, it just means that it's not a unified nation.

    Well, I gotta say, 7% it's nothing. I guess it's counted as actually just 7% (so, 7 in 100, which it's extremely low), although I'm not sure. I don't know which value would be correct, but if you increase the number and intensity of revolts, it would be more simple.
    I was under the impression that it's checked per month, in which case this means each province revolts once per year. If it's checked yearly, then it is woefully weak- revolting once every 13 years is way too long. I may still kick it up a notch (or a few notches) but I think if you count 7% plus the major stability hit will probably mean at least +4% total RR, that means once every 9 or ten months each province revolts. For a small state this wouldn't be too problematic, I suppose, but for, say, the Incas with 15 provinces it could cause havoc- at least one revolt every month and two in some months.

    Then again, if they're small revolts I will kick it up, so that large states get 2-3 revolts a month and small ones get a revolt every month or two.
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  15. #15
    Major Amob_m_s's Avatar
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    [EDIT] Nevermind, I answered my own question.

    Okay, question: I'm done with the coding, etc., and now am in my playtesting stage. However, I'm getting a CTD every time I start a game. A brief proofread found no glaring structural errors (ie missing a {,},", or closing ") but I did notice a discrepancy between my events and vanilla events- for all the vanilla events I looked at, the country modifier addition line is always followed by a duration line, such as

    Code:
    option = {
    add_country_modifier = Hanseatic_League
    duration = 5000

    As you can see above, my events don't have this. I really want them to be permanent until removed, but if I have to I can add very long durations so that the only way they come off during the timeframe is by event. If the "duration" line is not necessary, I don't want to go through and add it to all my events, though. My question is: Do I need this "duration" line?



    EDIT: Nevermind, upon frther looking it seems I DO definitely need to use brackets, so...... add_c_m = { name = xxx duration = 1234 }
    Last edited by Amob_m_s; 06-01-2008 at 03:53.
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  16. #16
    I don't play games. Fijj's Avatar
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    I'll check it out and see whats up.

    Note I have no mod experience, only editing and crap. But whatever, maybe if I tinker with this, I can accually be a good modder or a decient one at least.

  17. #17
    Major Amob_m_s's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fijj
    I'll check it out and see whats up.

    Note I have no mod experience, only editing and crap. But whatever, maybe if I tinker with this, I can accually be a good modder or a decient one at least.
    Okay, is it OK if I email you the mod? I don't want to have a huge post here by putting it all up; the above were just little section, and have been changed since posted. Just PM me with your email, if it's alright.
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  18. #18
    Hello Amob_m_s,


    I am very interested in your work on this area!

    Please let me know if you need a playtester, I would probably like to fold your mini-mod into a combo-mod I am cooking up if that would be ok with you?


    Regards,


    Jay

  19. #19
    General kolmy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amob_m_s
    I don't know, I never really saw anything offensive in it. I mean, it's just describing that in a "Tribal" government, the nation is actually many tribes unified by a weak overarching leadership and loose racial bonds. It doesn't imply unintelligence or anything, it just means that it's not a unified nation.
    But the Incas were indeed unified, but I guess they were the only ones (I only know about Central and South America history, did the Iroquois reached a similar level of development?)

    And would you tie this to tech development? Because the reforms made to the government also allowed a new degree of technological advancement.
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  20. #20
    Major Amob_m_s's Avatar
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    DataJ: I could definitely use playtesters. The events in this mod have intentionally long Mean Times To Happen, so it requires a lot of testing time to see if they are occuring at the frequency I want. And feel free to include it in your combo-mod, that's what it's for.

    kolmy: As I said above, I am considering doing two versions: the current one, which is much more of a modders' resource than an actual mod (It's meant for inclusion in a larger work that actually makes major changes). Once I have this working, I may (if I have time) go on to a broader scale. Right now it just allows for the possibility of escaping tribalism; in this theoretical, larger mod, I would try to put this into historical context. Therefore, the Incas would begin as a semitribal monarchy, and with their size all they'll need is a good ruler and some luck to fully escape tribal influence.

    The Iroquois formed a semitribal government (probably) during the EU3 time period: While a small group of historians argues that their Confederate government was formed in the 1100s, most think the "Gayanashagowa" (Constitution) was written between 1450 and the early 1600s. I'd put the historical date for this at around 1525-1550, having them change from Tribal Federation to Semitribal Confederation. Under this Constitution (which inspired parts of the US constitution, pretty impressive for a bunch of so-called "savages") five (later six) tribes were ruled by one government, the Haudenosaunee (their name for their entire people, rather than the French name "Iroquois") in matters pertaining to the nation as a whole. The tribes handled local matters independently, much as former chiefs could retain domestic control of their villages after the Inca conquest, but matters of more than local importance were not handled tribally.

    (In an ironic twist, the United States, the "Champions of Freedom," were later to destroy the de facto power of the Iroquois, despite the Iroquois believing much more strongly in equality for all (including women, foreigners, etc) and freedom than the US, and even deported some to Oklahoma Indian Territory.)

    I'm still considering whether or not to make the Aztecs a semitribal monarchy or not. They certainly ruled with a strong central government, but I don't know enough about the role of tribal alignment in Aztec politics to decide. Were positions of power limited to the those of Aztec descent only, or was there a government by many of different tribes, acting as one regardless of the ethnic difference?
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