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Thread: Succession Game discussion thread

  1. #1

    Succession Game discussion thread

    I have been member of the Civfanatics forums for a while, and I've always enjoyed reading Successions Games for games like CivIII and CivIV. So I was thinking why not try it with EU2?

    What is a Succession game?

    I've taken this from CFC:

    A succession game (SG) is a Single Player (SP) game played by a group of people.
    While playing the person must keep a timeline of the most important events that occur during his reign. When finished, he passes on a saved game to the next player (either by uploading it on the site or by mail) and posts the timeline in the game's thread so that other players are informed of what happened.

    Rules normally used:
    - 5 players.
    - 20 turns (in EU2 5 or 10 years)
    - 24h confirmation period (you have to say you’re playing; otherwise you’re skipped).
    - 48h to 72h (since the saved game was passed) to play the game (and post the timeline).

    (These rules can of course be changed)

    ---

    If you still aren't sure what a SG is, you can take a look at this example from CFC.

    The main problem with the SG in the example was the lack of rules and discussion. I will therefore add some more rules so the game won't get ruined/boring/whatever (see post #2).

    Anyone interested?

    So, is anyone interested in a SG? Anybody can join, but you must understand game basics and be able to discuss on goals etc. It is also important that you have time to play regularly, but it's possible to skip a turn of course.

    I haven't yet decided on what mod to use and what nation to play, so we could discuss and vote over this here.

    Mod

    Alternatives:
    AGCEEP 1.54 (<-- I vote for this one)
    Interregnum 1.03
    EP (latest version)
    Vanilla (no mod)

    No map mod will be used.

    Country

    We'll decide country after we've picked a mod. However, feel free to think about a suitable country we can play. It can be a bit hard to make a good choice, since we don't want it too easy (e.g. France or England) or too hard (e.g. Bosnia or Norway).

    Difficulty

    I vote for hard/weakling (might change it, as it depends on what country we choose)

    Player list (Roster)

    1. Olav
    2. Lordling
    3. Lurken
    4. Dell19
    5. Sir El'WoN
    6. Brian Roastbeef

    Reserve:

    Thrashing Mad

    ---

    I might have forgotten something, so just ask if something seems unclear! The thread is up and running: Kara Koyunlu's dash for Greatness
    Last edited by Olav; 10-12-2007 at 21:51.

  2. #2
    To secure a fun and well working SG, we need some rules/guidelines. I've taken this SG etiquette from CivFanatics (and edited it a bit so it fits in with EU2):

    SG etiquette

    Alpha: The quality of your report outweighs the quality of your play. We’re here to have fun, and, of course, winning is fun, but losing in style is preferable to a boring win. Remember, your report should be a new reply to alert other players.

    Bravo: Reports should be detailed, with plenty of screen shots and player commentary, explanations, musings, etc; an auto-log dump will not suffice. Overview shots of the empire are nice; have at least one overview shot in the political mapmode in your report. Also, take shots of events (not needed for random events). The style of your report is not important, you could write narrative/history book/gamplay, but remember to keep us informed of gameplay details.

    Charlie: Punctuality rocks! “24/48” means post a "got it" within 24 hours of when the last save was posted, and play within 48 hours of that ‘got it.’ Waiting 47 hours to ask for a skip is lame. Skips and swaps are fine, but try to let us know sooner, rather than later.

    Delta: Major game decisions (war declarations, religion swaps etc) should be arrived at via group consensus.
    1. If the team disagrees with you, either argue your case better, or do it their way. Do NOT just blow them off and do it your way because it's your turn.
    2. However, if there’s no consensus and you’re up, do it your way and explain why. Conversely, if someone else is up, don't whine when they do it their way.
    3. Similarly, overruling techs or city builds is rude and should be done via consensus, barring an emergency.
    4. In extraordinary situations, sometimes an opportunity presents itself that the group didn't foresee. If the consequences of it are great, players should stop, and refer the question to the group.

    Echo: Being a better player does not give you the right to belittle anyone else or their play. Other people are going to disagree with you on major decisions; get used to the idea, and play nice. If not, take your ball and go home.

    Foxtrot: Thread spam is good. Trash talking, poking fun, gentle ribbing, virtual noogies, and generally horsing around are all encouraged, but don’t be rude.

    ---

    Lots of rules there, but don't pay too much attention to them. I feel Alpha and Bravo are the most important ones. However, the etiquette lacks one important aspect IMO: SG's are about cooperative team play. You must be willing to discuss plans before and / or after your turn.

    We also need some guidelines for gameplay:

    Gamplay rules/guidelines:

    1. Our reputation is golden. Do NOT forceannex*. Also, try to avoid accumulate too much BB. Try to stay below 10BB in the 15th century. *Forceannexing is only allowed when there's group consensus.

    2. Don't cheat. Don't turn off Fog of War.

    3. Don't reload or play your turn again if you're doing mistakes, are unlucky etc. You can reload if the game crashes, of course.

    4. Don't lend money to the AI to get a CB.

    5. Try to keep inflation below 15%.

    6. Don't do other inhonorable stuff.

    Hmm, it was hard to think about guidelines for gameplay. Maybe I come up with more later on.
    Last edited by Olav; 10-12-2007 at 21:52.

  3. #3
    Perpetually Confused likk9922's Avatar
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    It looks very interesting, although I regret to say I won't be able to play.
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  4. #4
    You know I was a CivFanatics member too, years ago. Back in the heyday post-Civ II and in the anticipation of Civ III.

    Like I mentioned in the Livonian thread. I can't say that I have the time or AAR writing experience to join in on this, but I like the concept and will follow it closely.

  5. #5
    I'd like to play. Vote for AGCEEP, VH/Coward.

  6. #6
    lik9922 and Brian: Sorry to hear that. If time is the main problem, I could change the deadline for the confirmation period and the play/reporting period. And you don't need to have any AAR writing experience to join, you only need to know how to post pictures. Even if you don't have the opportunity to play, feel free to lurk around in the SG and give comments etc.

    Lordling: Nice to have you along! I'll wait a day or two and see if more people will join this before starting the SG.

  7. #7
    Just call me Yoda in private!
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    hard/weakling: good choice for AGCEEP.
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  8. #8
    looks promising, but I'm not sure I understand, what is the difference with the "finest warriors of the world" series ?
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Don Matito
    looks promising, but I'm not sure I understand, what is the difference with the "finest warriors of the world" series ?
    In the "Finest Warriors of the World" series, players didn't play the same nation continuously. Here we will play the same country from 1419 to 1819, provided that we survive, that is.

    Hmm, not much response here =/. What do you say, Lordling, should we wait for more players, or should we just start?

  10. #10
    Aww come on, people... nobody can jump into this? I know there's still a following for EU2, and this is a decent idea. A bunch of us, even those who aren't playing would really like to see this going, so there will be a following...

    Any idea what nation you guys want to play? Maybe the choice would influence people. Maybe keep the option to join open after the two (or hopefully more) of you get started? In the SG you linked to, they got started before everybody was sorted out...

    Actually, I'm looking at your time limits and they don't look too bad. I might even go in if you can get a couple more players. I'm hesitant to join in if I'd be playing every third turn, but maybe I could do every fifth or sixth. As it is now, though, I'd rather just stand on the edge than to rush in and not be able to keep my commitment down the line, particularly as the holidays are coming up...

    Otherwise, even if its just the two of you, I'll still give it a follow. You don't see a back and forth AAR every day either...
    Last edited by Brian Roastbeef; 04-12-2007 at 11:32.

  11. #11
    Thanks for the feedback Brian!

    Well, as it seems we'll settle for AGCEEP, I have been thinking of some nations to play. As I mentioned earlier, the nation we pick should not be too big, since there will be fewer challenges and the game may become boring. And the nation should not be too small either - we don't want to be annexed in 1420, do we? Here's the nations I've been thinking about: Muscovy, Kara Koyunlu, Savoy and Venice. Muscovy is perhaps to easy, but we're secured many wars.

    Nice to hear that you might join! Perhaps if you join in now, more people will follow suit

    Edit: Even if Lordling and I start now, people may of course join us when they want (as long as we need more players). On the other hand, if players due to certain circumstances can't play anymore, they could be skipped or leave the playerlist for a while and come back into the SG (if no one else joined in the mean time). So it shouldn't be a problem for the SG if you join now and skip/drop out when the holiday starts.
    Last edited by Olav; 04-12-2007 at 14:04.

  12. #12
    I've taken part in a couple of these for EUII before. We wrote AARs on them here (Milan) and here (Poland).

    Just a couple of points that might aid you. Don't set a strict list of players at the start. They always disappear at inconvenient times. Also I'd recommend using a vanilla version. Without it you run into lots of compatibility problems when people think they have the same versions of mods but don't etc.

  13. #13
    Well I'm not sure if I should have too much of a say sitting on the fence like this, but Savoy is a good nation to play. I know that at least in vanilla they have French and Italian cultures and can become something of a real powerhouse with a little patience and a lot of work. Never played them in AGCEEP; don't know if its any different.

    Venice might be fun too. The game you linked to at Civfanatics shows that you have to be careful with early expansion too, so we're guaranteed a challenge that will keep the AAR interesting. Italian, greek cultures, and I think a fair share of cores.

    If you tend toward what Wellington says and what you possibly indicated, and keep the player list loose, I might be more likely to be able to contribute on occasion. Though you don't want to leave yourself open to inconsistencies in the AAR dying by everybody suddenly begging off...

    I don't know if going AGCEEP could give you compatibility problems. I'd like to think AGCEEP is prolific enough on this forum that everybody involved could take the time to make sure to grab the latest version for a project like this.

  14. #14
    To be honest, I'd enjoy playing maybe the Byzantine Empire with the fantasy events turned on, although that tends to either end up as a Byzantine victory over the world, or annexation within the year.

    Regarding AGCEEP, I'm fairly sure I have the latest version (having downloaded it a few weeks ago), so I'm safe on that front.

    Personally, I'd like to play Kara Koyunlu or Venice - being part of the Muslim techgroup means you have to struggle to beat Europe later on, and Venice is a nation that struggles to beat the Ottomans once they get going. If we play Muscovy, we're going to end up with super-Russia, as Muscovy is wont to do when played by humans (Once the Horde collapses, all that remains is for you to obliterate them, and expand to Siberia), and Savoy has no real problems subjugating both France and Italy, given its cultures and capabilities (Sneak in during the closing act of the Hundred Years War and sneak away four or five Dauphin provinces? Easy.) in less than a hundred years.

    Venice, on the other hand, starts off with non-culture, non-religion island provinces, little in the way of land power, and a vast need for land power to combat the Ottomans. Or Hungary, if Hungary wins against the Ottomans, unlikely as that is.

  15. #15
    Thanks for the links, DoW! Skimmed through the Milan AAR, and it was an enjoyable read. Too bad it was discontinued though.

    Having a loose player list is a good idea. I think the SG will start with such a list, then. On the other hand, as Brian mentioned, there could be some consistency problems, as we're not sure when a new round should begin. Ah well, we'll find out how it works when the SG starts.

    As for compatibility problems, we didn't have any of that at the CFC SG, so I think we'll be fine here too (crosses fingers).

    Choice of country:

    Kara Koyunlu (I vote for this one)
    Byzantium
    Venice


    Alright, Savoy and Muscovy are dropped from the list and Byzantium is added due to reasons Lordling mentioned. I vote for Kara Koyunly - their starting point is very interesting, "trapped" betwen Ak Koyunlu and the Timurid Empire, with the Ottoman Empire lurking in the horizon. To overcome this threat will be an interesting challenge, in addition to that KK can form the Safavid Empire (another challenge which should be very doable).

    So, what is your choice?

  16. #16
    I've really only played European nations before, and, to be honest, any nation in Europe can be turned into a powerhouse of gargantuan proportions, even Venice, although it takes more work. And, as I rarely, if ever play Muslim nations (preferring to either play Indochinese nations or the ever-present European ones), I think I'll second Kara Koyunlu. I'm a bit busy right now, however, I should be able to scrape up some time for this by the weekend, at the very latest.

  17. #17
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  18. #18
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  19. #19
    Woo-hoo! Another player!

    Well, if you're scrapping Savoy and Muscovy, I wouldn't think you'd want to do Byzantium anyway. I've played several games as them. Its a good game; there are a lot of events in AGCEEP to make it interesting, but I'd kind of think that they'd be a similar scenario. The first guy or two would have his hands full, but once the imminent Ottoman threat is dealt with, the expansive number of cultures and having cores on pretty much everybody near you means that expansion can come a bit too quickly.

    I've never played Kara Koyunlu, don't remember the last time I played a Muslim nation, and am not too certain what to expect. Those are good things. My personal choice would still be for Venice, but since all of you guys that have been officially committed to this are trending Kara Koyunlu, I wouldn't dare stand in the way.

    I'm happy to see that you like the idea of a loose player list. In that case, once you get started put me down for a go in the first round, fourth turn or so. As long as it doesn't land on this weekend (which I doubt you'd play that fast) and before Christmas, it shouldn't be a problem. If I have a vote, its for AGCEEP at Yoda's recommended difficulty settings (Hard/Weakling), random events on, missions off. Might have a few worries of compatibility with people who come into it later, but hopefully it wouldn't take much to clear up. Just let me know whether you're getting "Base" or "Deluxe," as I don't have 1.54 yet, and would like to know which to download.

  20. #20
    Thanks for the warning, YodaMaster! I had completely forgotten about it. Since I already have the deluxe version, we'll use that one in the SG.

    There is plenty of room for you Lurken, so consider yourself enlisted! What difficulty do you prefer?

    Good to hear that you have time for a turn, Brian! You and Lordling have mentioned some good points of not picking European nations, however, if there will be future SG's, I think it will be a bit boring not being able to pick European nations due to "easy" difficulty. I guess we could add some special rules (like messing around with the domestic policies, not be able to DoW etc.) so we could get some challenges with European nations too.

    As for the playerlist, I'll split it into two: one for permanent players and one for visitors/temporary players. When the permanent players have played their turns in a round, the visitors could PM me or ask in the thread if they could play (which they certainly will be allowed to do ). Since you seem to the spokesman of the "visitors" Brian, does this sound like a good idea to you?

    Alright, since most of basics seems to be figured out, I'll start the SG in ~24 hours. The nation will be Kara Koyunlu, played with AGCEEP 1.54 deluxe, random events on and missions off. I'll wait for feeback from Lurken to decide difficulty. As for rules, I'll add them in post #2 in this thread. Finally, there's still room for other players, so shout out if you want to enlist.

    Edit: Updated post #2. Please have a look at it, and tell me if there's something wrong or something you disagree with. Updated the player list.
    Last edited by Olav; 05-12-2007 at 23:17.

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