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Thread: DV: Break free from wrong culture liege

  1. #1
    Crazy Crusader Kings Creator jordarkelf's Avatar
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    DV: break free mod

    Crusader Kings: Deus Vult introduces an annoying behaviour where independent counts and dukes pledge to quite illogical lieges, resulting in oddities like the count of Barcelona being a vassal of the King of Sicily, or all of North Africa pledging to Egypt.

    This event fixes that behaviour by allowing any vassal to break free from his liege if certain conditions are met.


    Rules to break free are:
    -Character must be a ruler
    -Character must be a vassal
    -Character must not be a bishop
    -Character must not be at war
    -Character must not be a loyalist
    -Character must not be rebellious (if you're already in a civil war -- fight it)
    -Character must not be ill, have pneumonia, or be seriously wounded
    -Character must not be friends with liege
    -Liege must not have immense values of prestige (5000+)
    -Liege must not be an emperor (trait)
    (Optional: -Liege must be AI. If you want to make sure YOUR vassals won't break free, remove the # sign to cheat)
    -For Catholics: Liege must not be the pope (very prestigious)

    Two of the following MUST be true:
    -The liege's capital must not be in the same region as the vassal's, or in a neighbouring area OR (duchies only the liege must not hold the "natural title" for the area
    -The liege's culture must be different from the vassals and not accepted (see below for details),
    -The liege's religion must conflict with the vassal's (catholic vs orthodox; sunni vs shiite; wrong religions; heretics)
    -The liege's government form must conflict: feudal lords will be unhappy with nonfeudal lords, republics will only accept Italy or Byzantium as a liege, and knight orders will always want to be independent.
    -The liege and vassal are rivals.

    An exception is made for muslims, here area by itself remains a valid trigger (since muslim cultures are much larger spread across the map than christian ones).

    You can still keep a huge empire together, but it will be far less likely that a random pledger will stay with his random liege for long.
    To keep a huge ahistorical together, try to make sure all your vassals are of your culture, that you hold the king titles of the areas, do not have too many count vassals (as a king), or be friends with vassals.

    Normal MTTH is 2 months, but there are multiple modifiers that decrease or extend this time. The further away a vassal is, the more likely he will break free. Likewise primary heirs and ruler children are much less likely to break free. Rivals are more likely, etc..

    Accepted cultures
    All cultures accept their own culture in their liege, as well one from the group. The groups are as follows:
    Scandinavian: Norwegian, Danish, Swedish
    Anglo: Anglo-Saxon, Scottish, English
    Celtic: Gaelic, Welsh, Breton
    Ugricbaltic: Finnish†, Prussian, Lettigallisch, Lithuanian, Mordvin
    Germanic: German, Dutch
    Frankish: French, Occitan
    Iberian: Castillian, Catalan, Portuguese
    Slav: Hungarian†, Bohemian, Wend, Croat, Serb, Bulgarian, Polish, Russian, Vlach
    Byzantine: Greek, Georgian, Armenian, Nubian
    Turkic: Turkish, Cuman, Alan, Pecheneg, Mongol
    Basque
    Arab
    Berber
    Persian

    † For game reasons. No need to educate me on the actual cultural or linguistic relationships.

    Additionally the following cultures accept the following additional culture(s) in their liege:

    English: Norman
    Italian: Occitan, Norman, German
    Occitan: German
    Bohemian: German
    Hungarian: German
    Dutch: French
    Catalan: Occitan
    Occitan: Catalan
    Alan: Georgian
    Georgian: Alan
    Norman: English, Italian, French
    Finnish: Sami, Swedish
    Persian: Arab
    Berber: Arab
    Sami: Finnish, Mordvin
    Mordvin: Sami
    Gaelic: Scottish, Norwegian
    Scottish: Gaelic, Norwegian
    Norwegian: Gaelic, Scottish
    Nubian: Arab
    Arab: Nubian

    The region check makes sure that if for example the king of Germany becomes English, his vassals will not break free as long as the capital remains in the German region. It should also prevent the HRE from breaking up too much.


    Once a vassal breaks free, the liege gets an event informing him so. The tooltip will display who broke free.
    Immediate repledging is prevented by a heavy relations hit.

    Installation (easy way): unzip the attached file over your DV install, overwrite events.txt when prompted.

    Advanced (for use with other modifications): unzip the break_free.txt event file into db\events and add the following to db\events.txt:
    Code:
    event = "db\events\break_free.txt"
    Also place the attached modtext.csv in your DV config folder (or add the following strings to an existing modtext.csv file).
    Code:
    EVT_1979080_NAME;Our liege has no natural right to rule over our lands. Perhaps we should declare our independence?;;;;;;;;;;X
    ACTIONNAME1979080A;Yes, break free;;;;;;;;;;X
    ACTIONNAME1979080B;No, loyalty is a virtue;;;;;;;;;;X
    EVT_1979081_NAME;Our vassal broke free!;;;;;;;;;;X
    With thanks to the Pdox forum users for inspiration and ideas.

    Region and area checks originally by Byakhiam for CK 1.05.


    NOTE: this event is included in DVIP.
    Attached Files

  2. #2
    Crazy Crusader Kings Creator jordarkelf's Avatar
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    If you're playing with DV vanilla, you won't have some of the above cultures. It doesn't really matter though, since the event will still work, just not as well. In DV vanilla Bretons are Franks for example, so they won't try to become independent. If you're playing with the Improvement Pack, Bretons have their own culture and will try to break free.

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  4. #4
    Endarkened Despot Lord Grave's Avatar

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    Does this work if you install it after you have started the game? I installed the mod when I noticed Duchy of Apulia as part of England, but the things only got worse with time. Now I have counties in western Asia Minor as vassals of King of Georgia and Principality of Trebizond with capital in Naples. The mod doesn't seem to be helping.

  5. #5
    Crazy Crusader Kings Creator jordarkelf's Avatar
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    LG: It should work. Keep in mind the checks: both wrong culture and wrong region must be true.
    IMHO it is perfectly logical for vassals in Asia Minor to pledge to Georgia (compatible culture, same rough area), but Georgia should not be able to hold on to Bulgaria.

    I can't do anything about the weird moving of demesnes. Trebizond probably conquered or inherited Naples, and since Naples is one of the richest provinces in the game it will move its capital there if it doesn't have any greek lands (or its ruler is no longer greek). If Treb has vassal in Anatolia it should lose them because of either this event, or one of the vanilla events, though.

  6. #6
    Crazy Crusader Kings Creator jordarkelf's Avatar
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    Checks updated:
    Either culture + region must now be false, or there must be a religious conflict.
    Sunnis will no longer like to be Shiite vassals, and vice versa; and similar for catholics/orthodox.

    Government type must also match.

  7. #7
    Lt. General L G's Avatar

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    This still relevant after the beta patch?

  8. #8
    Crazy Crusader Kings Creator jordarkelf's Avatar
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    Unfortunately very much so. Pledging is still out of control, more so than ever where muslims are concerned.
    Without these heavy checks, you will probably see unified muslim blocks from Spain to Persia since all arabs will join the same arab kingdom, and all turks the Seljuks.
    Not to mention that Apulia will pledge to England 9 times out of 10, Venice will snare up every independent italian, etc..

  9. #9
    Lt. General L G's Avatar

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    Alright downloading now, thank you very much.

  10. #10
    quote "-Ruler must not be rebellious (if you're already in a civil war -- fight it)"

    If you play as a count and you make a few decision in order to decrease your loyalty towards your liege, your are almost obliged to have the trait "rebellious".

    since in your mod "rebellious" counts cant declare independance, isn't this a big contradiction in your mod ? Or maybe there is something I have misunderstood...

  11. #11
    Crazy Crusader Kings Creator jordarkelf's Avatar
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    The rebellious trait allows several events that can turn you independent, either peacefully or through war.

    It is my hope that my break free event will fire before you get the rebellious trait (since you can only get my event if you are under an illogical liege), but if it takes longer and you're already rebellious, it is best to use existing events to take care of it.

  12. #12
    Crazy Crusader Kings Creator jordarkelf's Avatar
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    I've largely rewritten this event. For dukes, the king title of the liege is now taken into account, and I've revised the culture groups. I've also tried to make it less likely for counts to remain directly under kings.

  13. #13
    "GRRRR ME WANTS POLLS!" Biges's Avatar
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    EDIT: I'm sorry for posting here, next time I'll do it in the proper thread
    EDIT 2: Where is the proper thread?

    Well, what happened ... there is a small country between Kingdom of England and Kingdom of Wales. It often accepts vassalisation from one of two kingdoms and then thanks for breakaway event it breaks away. So a king just marches in and annexes the country. And gives it to another loyal vassal. And so on and so on...
    Furthermore I see no point on a country breaking away from its king, I'd take it a privilege to be directly under a king rather then a duke.
    I understand you are trying to correct something which could be corrected by Paradox... never the less I'm not sure it is perfect. But thanks anyway.
    Guess I'll have to mod your mod
    Last edited by Biges; 04-12-2007 at 14:04.
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  14. #14
    Crazy Crusader Kings Creator jordarkelf's Avatar
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    That's certainly not intended!
    Good points there...

    For an easy fix, look for # Counts directly under kings should break off faster and change the modifier from 0.5 (half) to 10 (ten times as long), which is what it was at before. I'll be making the same change in the next update, I noticed something similar for iberian counts

    //Edit: change uploaded. Counts are now far less likely to break free if their liege is a king, should prevent the behaviour described. I really, really hope that pledging will be fixed so counts will try to pledge to nearby dukes first.

  15. #15
    "GRRRR ME WANTS POLLS!" Biges's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jordarkelf
    That's certainly not intended!
    Good points there...

    For an easy fix, look for # Counts directly under kings should break off faster and change the modifier from 0.5 (half) to 10 (ten times as long), which is what it was at before. I'll be making the same change in the next update, I noticed something similar for iberian counts

    //Edit: change uploaded. Counts are now far less likely to break free if their liege is a king, should prevent the behaviour described. I really, really hope that pledging will be fixed so counts will try to pledge to nearby dukes first.
    Yeah, I'v already done that. But the problem is, it only changes the mean time to happen, not the fact itself. I think the easiets way would be for Johan to create some sensible pledging rules like that territories should either be directly connected or a certain maximum number of sea territories. Or somoe exemptions for the "Holy land". Also for the religious incompatibility, I believe in in some cases orthodox and catloci rulers/vassals would be able to live together. But it is for another disccussion, I that you for you solid work

    Maybe there should be placed more emphasis on the attributes of the ruler. So a strong monarch would be able to keep even "incompatible" vassals. But just my idea of not-so-experienced player
    Last edited by Biges; 04-12-2007 at 14:14.
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  16. #16
    Crazy Crusader Kings Creator jordarkelf's Avatar
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    I welcome any suggestions for further checks
    Currently I check a few attributes and traits, but there's still room for improvement.

    Most of the current checks are lifted from the existing realm duress events that make Holy Land vassals break off, modified by me to be somewhat less severe, and I have heavily modified the regions. Just for dukes though -- counts are much harder to check for, since whereas a duchy usually unambigiously belongs to one area and thus one kingdom (it's 100% obvious to me that the duke of Holland should not be a vassal of the King of Croatia unless this king is also Germany or France), I don't really know how to deal with counties pledging to kings.

    I still consider the current pledging in DV broken, since it allows countries to pledge to the lord of their neighbours -- so once Croatia starts picking up some random border Germans, its realm will stretch to the Netherlands before you know it.
    Currently pledging checks for one of the following: historical setup, friendship, similar culture or neighbours.
    I think that a change to two or more of that list will already fix it: Carinthia should be allowed to pledge to Croatia (direct neighbour), but Bavaria shouldn't immediately follow even though it then borders Croatia, unless it becomes friends with Croatia.

  17. #17
    I decided to get this mod after seeing (in my first game of DV I may add) every Rurikovic Prince in Russia pledge allegiance to the Roman Empire, and to no suprise the Prince of Kiev was Basileus within a few years. Something a bit wrong there.

  18. #18
    Buckler of Wales Drachenfire's Avatar
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    I have a question regarding some observations:


    When I am playing it seems that within 20 years all of Ireland pledges to Scotland ... for seemingly no reason. They do not see threatened by invasion... is this part of the pledging fix or what was occuring before?


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  19. #19
    Crazy Crusader Kings Creator jordarkelf's Avatar
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    Well it's part of the problem in vanilla, and now that I set Highlander and Irish to the same culture, culture is no longer a factor in breaking free. And Ireland is closeby Scotland, so that's not a factor to break free either.

  20. #20
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    This is indeed a very annoying problem..
    This mod will definitely be part of my next campaign. Indeed, I may just start a new one just for this.

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