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Hasimir Fenring said:
Djordarkelf, I found some errors concerning county of Belgrade 1066:

+the count Theodoulos (id20488) have a wrong dynasty name. Instead of Syraneres, he's known as Theodoulos Synadenos (the dynasty already exists, id:101141).

+Although he's single in CK, IRL he married Euphrosyne Botaneiates (id90034).

+together they got a daughter called Teophano. She's present in CK She's the wife of Geza Arpady duke of Nytra and her id is 481. In CK Teophano haven't got any parents.

+otherwise, I haven't find any mention of their son Nikephoros (id90035) present in CK :confused: Dunno if you should delete him.

BTW, when will the next DVIP version be available?

Good catches!

I think Jord is awaiting the info on the Gaelic/Scottish updates before release. I am working towards downloading them right now! lol. He can release what ever he has already and get the Scotland set up correction on the following release if he would like.
 
Earl of Buchan

C041 Buchan


1187 Éua ingen Garnait (Éva daughter of Garnait) (of the Buchan dynasty) should be Countess of Buchan. She inherited Buchan after her father Garnait, Earl of Buchan died in about 1174. I do not know her age however, recommend age 29ish (16 years old at 1174, plus 13 years to 1187)

She married Colbán . Possibly a junior member of the Buchan clan, but equally possibly from Fife, as both he and his son Furgas held strong connections there. One does not exclude the other, however. I have no age on him however.

Add their son Furgas Buchan , born about 1074ish.



County of Buchan in 1337 seems correct.


I recommend Buchan as Gaelic in culture for all three scenarios.
 
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Earl of Mar
C042 - Mar


1066 - Seems correct, but make the Count Martachus (and his wife Grouch) and his son Gratnarch as Gaelic culture.


1187 Gilchrist of Mar should be made Gaelic in culture here, and his name changed to the Gaelic Gille Críst of the Mar dynasty. Weather or not we make Mar as Gaelic or Scottish is debateable, as the costal area is English speaking while the interrior is Gaelic speaking.



1337 Seems correct, however I recommend that Earl Thomas be retaged to an as yet created dynasty known as Gilcrist. His ancestor gave rise to that branch from which Thomas decended.


*Marr should be Scottish Gaelic in culture for 1066. It is debateable weather it is Scottish Gaelic or Scottish in 1187 (map demonstrates costal area as English speaking, interrior as Gaelic), Scottish in 1337

*Gilchrist should be one of the Scottish culture names that appear in the Scottish culture zones (Lowlands). Gille Críst as a sirname in the Gaelic cultural zones (Highlands)
 
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Earl of Angus

C043 - Angus

1066 seemingly correct... change the of Angus dynasty name to the Gaelic Aonghas for this scenario.

1187 Change the name of the ruler Gilbride to Gaelic Gille Brigte, and retag him to the Aonghas dynasty name. All of his sons should also be rendered into their Gaelic form, as they are represented on Wikipedia as of Gaelic culture at this time.

1337 Seems correct, no changes


Scottish Gaelic culture in all three scenarios (the map demonstrates most of Angus was Gaelic speaking at this time.
 
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Earl of Atholl

C044 - Atholl

1066 - Seemingly correct, change dynasty name to new dynasty Dùn Chailleann

1187 - incorrect set up: Máel Coluim was earl of Atholl between 1153/9 and the 1190s. He married Hextilda, the daughter of Uchtred Waltheof, Anglo-Saxon baron of Tynedale. Their son was Henry of Atholl. Henry is in game currently as Earl of Atholl... but he doesnt seem to have become Earl until the 1190s when his father died. In the game they are tagged to the Dunkeld dynasty... however I feel they are well enough removed from the Royal dynasty to take the name of their primary seat of Atholl. They should be retaged to Atholl. Máel Coluim should be of Gaelic culture while his son be of Scottish culture.


1337 seemingly correct


Atholl should be Scottish Gaelic in culture in all scenarios, as the map here demonstrates a mostly Gaelic speaking Atholl for the entire periode.
 
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Earl of Argyll

C045 - Argyll


1066 - Correct as far as I can tell.

1137- Dynasty and culture should be rendered into Gaelic... Mac Dhomhnuill rather then MacDonald.

1337- Correct, however debatable weather Colin Camebell should be rendered as Gaelic in culture or as Scottish culture. The Camebell clan were very influencial in Gaelic Scotland, which would imply that they were themselves sympathic to the Gaelic cause. If we change him and the dynasty name to Gaelic, it would be Colin Caimbeul.


Argyll should remain Scottish Gaelic in culture in all scenarios according to this map.
 
Earl of Moray

C040 - Moray
Duchy: MARA (double check this though)

1066- Correct ruler, but his name should be rendered as Máel Snechtai mac Lulaich, and of Gaelic culture. His sister, husband, their children should all have the (Scottish) Gaelic culture. The Loarn dynasty should be Loairn dynasty... more Gaelic version according to Wikipedia as the Cenél Loairn, clan of Loairn.

1187 - Do not think this is correct. According to Wikipedia Moray was merged with the Scottish Crown between 1147 to 1314. However, there is a Dutch culture William of Moray as Count of Moray in the game. I do not know why this is so, would recommend his removal until we know the reason why. I think I know why, possible ancestor of the Sutherland Clan.

1337 - correct


Moray should remain Scottish Gaelic culture through-out all scenarios.
 
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Earl of Galloway

C050 - Galloway

1066- I can find no evidence that Galloway was ruled by Maldred of Atholl in 1066. However, if he were, he should be made Gaelic in culture. In 1065 it was ruled by Echmarcach mac Ragnaill, who was killed by his ally Guttorm Gunnhildsson when they were raiding Gwynedd.

1187- ruled by Lochlann, Lord of Galloway. However he seems to have also been known as Roland. As this map demonstrates that Galloway was split between Gaelic and Inglis speakers... and is demonstrated by the two names of Lochlann.

1337- Correct

According to the map, It is debatable weather Galloway should be Gaelic or Inglis in 1187 and 1337, depending on which part of Galloway one looks at.
 
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Earl of Carrick

C049 - Carrick

1066- Unknown rulership, taged to the king of Scotland. The Galwegian Gaelic culture should be represented by Gaelic culture

1187- Correct, Duncan should be Scottish culture.

1337- Correct, this should be a case of female inheritance here.

The Galwegian Gaelic culture should be represented by Gaelic culture in 1066, debateable for Scottish in 1187 and 1336.
 
Earl of Strathclyde

C047 - Strathclyde


1066- Correct, recently conqured by Máel Coluim III mac Donnchada, King of Scotland. In 1066 it should be of Gaelic culture

1187 - Uncertin... but aquiesence to what is in place. Scottish culture in 1187

1337- merged with the Scottish crown.

Gaelic culture in 1066, Scottish culture in 1187 and 1337
 
Earl of Fife

C046 - Fife

1066- Was the seat of the Royal Family of Dùn Chailleann /Dunkeld at Dunfermline/ Dun Phairlin. Fife should be the capital of Scotland in 1066. In 1066 it is of Gaelic culture.

1187- Fife is listed under Duncan II, Earl of Fife However, Dumfermline remained the capital of Scotland until 1437 when it was moved to Edinburgh. Initially I was torn as to weather or not make Fife the capital in 1187... as there is a clear Earl of Fife. On the other hand... that same earl could simply be represented as a courtier. Considering this... I think we should make Fife the capital in 1187.... make Duncan II as a courtier in the king's court at Dunfermline.

Title holder and coutiers Scottish culture in 1187.

1337 - Duncan IV MacDuff, Earl of Fife. However, as it would be another 100 years before Edinburgh would be made the capital... I recommend making Fife again the capital of Scotland this scenario. Make Duncan MacDuff as a courtier in the king's court with a claim on Fife.

Fife Gaelic culture in 1066, Scottish in 1187 and 1337
 
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Earl of Ross

C039 - Ross

1066- no clear information on title holder

1187- Wiki has Ross merged with the Scottish crown. However, it also has Adam MacHeth as Earl of Ross. I am in favor of keeping them in place, as they dominated Ross until the 12th century. The dynasty should be renamed Mac Áedh rather then MacHeth, and be made Gaelic culture. Adam's son should be given the Gaelic name of Cináed rather then Kenneth.

1337- Ruled by the Gaelic family Ros (Gaelic for Ross). The correction here is the dynasty name should be Ros, and William should be rendered in the Gaelic Uilleam . Uilleam's wife should also be Gaelic as Màiri Óg MacDomhnaill.


Ros should be Gaelic in all scenarios.
 
Earl of Sutherland

C038 - Sutherland

1066- No clear record of title holder. However, Wiki states
Sutherland dates from the era of norse rule over much of the Highlands and Islands, especially in the north and west, which was perhaps at its zenith in the early 11th century, when Sigurd the Stout was jarl of Orkney. Suðrland was then land to the south of, or in the south of, Norse Caithness. As a Scottish county, however, Sutherland also includes land which is to the west of the county of Caithness.
No recommendation as to change in set up here. However, it could be reasoned the region should be of Norse-Gaelic or Norweigan culture.

1187- Recommend changes: Sutherland Clan 's third chief Hugh de Moravia should be made count of Sutherland, and be made Gaelic culture. Hugh de Moravia (Hugh of Moray) .... possibly be translanted into Gaelic ((Hew?)) Moireibh.

1337- Hugh de Moravia's grandson William Strathbogie is Count of Sutherland... but he should more correctly be tagged to the de Moravia family. This was a Gaelic family however the sources are written in English... I would favor the Gaelic Uilleam Moireibh (William of Moray)

Sutherland should be either Gaelic or Norweigan in 1066, but Gaelic in 1187 and 1337.
 
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Western Isles

C035 - Western Isles


1066- No changes

1187- Reginald MacDonald and family should be of Gaelic culture, and the dynasty name should be MacDhomnhaill. Reginald should be rendered as Ragnall mac Somhairlidh of clan MacDhomnhaill.

His sons are Ruadri, Dhomnhaill, Dubhghall

**The succession law here should be semi-salic consangunity... as they divided the "kingdom" between each other. Raudri got Argyll, Dhomnhaill got what we call the Western Isles, and I do not see what Dubghall got yet.

**In the Improvement Pack he should remain as Duke of the Western Isles.... in the More Kingdoms mode he should be King of Mann and the Isles.

1337- In 1337 Eion should be Gaelic and of the MacDhomnhaill
 
Lothian, Berwick

1066: No changes .... should be made Anglo-Saxon (Inglis) Culture to represent Northumbrian English

1187 and 1337: Scottish Culture

*The capital should be moved from Lothian to Fife for all scenarios.


Dùn Chailleann / Dunkeld
Fort of the Caledonii

*The Royal Family should be rendered as Gaelic... and the dynasty name should be in Gaelic as Dùn Chailleann in 1066. It was not for almost 60 years before David I of Scotland... who suffered from a bad case of Anglophillia, would promote Normanization of Scotland.

In 1187 the Royal Family in the lowlands should hold the Dunkeld English version of the name... and be of Scottish culture.

Cathness: Norweigan culture in 1066, Gaelic in 1187 and 1337.
 
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Cultural set ups at scenario starts (based off of this map of Scottish language dominance in 1400)

1066:

Gaelic (representing both Scottish, Irish, and Galloweigan Gaelic):


Ross, Moray, Sutherland, Argyll, Buchan, Mar, Atholl, Angus, Fife, Strathclyde, Galloway,

Inglis (Anglo-Saxon)

Lothian, Berwick

Norweigan:

The Western Isles, Cathiness, Orkney, Cumberland, Cerrick

1187

Gaelic:

Ross, Moray, Sutherland, Argyll, The Western Isles
Cathiness, Buchan, Angus

*possibly Galloway and Cerrick (Depending on how you read the map)

Scottish:

Lothian, Berwick, Fife, Strathclyde, Mar, Cumberland

*possibly Galloway and Cerrick (depending on how you read the map)

1337

Same as 1187, but possibly adding to Scottish, depending on how you read the map:

Galloway, Cerrick, Angus, Buchan, Atholl
 
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Any cultural event change shifting to Scottish culture should only effect the lowland cultures... excluding the Highlands:

Ross, Cathiness, Sutherland, Argyll, The Western Isles, and possibly Atholl.
 
For generic dynasties, as we proposed, will be split between the Highlands and Lowlands.

The Highlands will have generic dynasty names as rendered in (Scottish) Gaelic. The Lowlands will have generic dynasty names as rendered in Scottish (Anglized).

With this plan, I shall divide the two like so:

Gaelic Scotland:
(Will always get Gaelic rendered generic dynasties)

35 Western Isles
36 Orkney
37 Caithness
38 Sutherland
39 Ross
45 Argyll

Scots Scotland
(Will always get the Scottish (Anglizied) generic dynasty names)

41 Buchan
42 Mar
43 Angus
44 Atholl (I am conflicted with this one)
46 Fife
47 Strathclyde
48 Lothian
49 Cerrick
50 Galloway
51 Berwick
 
good catches Drachenfire ! ;)

Now it's my turn to propose some modifications !

Recently, I started a game with county of Monteferrato (1066) and I found some weird things:

Guiglielmo di Montferrato(id7732), heir and son of count Oddone (id7730) is 26 but his mother, Constanza de Savoie (id7731) is 31 :wacko: I thought it was a simple error in her birthdate... But in fact, there are lot of errors concerning this dynasty:

+in 1066, count Oddone di Montferrato (id7730) was not married. Moreover, I haven't found any mention of a high "coefficient" of consanguinity. His father didn't marry his sister/cousin AFAIK, he married a "Waza". So I think his inbred trait should be removed.

+his wife in CK, Constanza de Savoie (id7731) wasn't born yet in 1066 ! IRL she wasn't the daughter of Amadeo I de Savoie (id1178). Her parents were Amadeo II de Savoie (id1184) courtier in county of Savoy and her mother was Jehanne of Geneve (id10080).

+Oddone's son, Guiglielmo was born after 1066.

So there is some work for you Djordarkelf:

1) "delete" Constanza de Savoie (id7731)
2) "delete" Guiglielmo di Montferrato (id7732)
3) remove Oddone's inbred trait
4) although Jehanne of Geneve (id10080) is very young in CK (13 or 14 IIRC), give her her husband Amadeo de Savoie (id1184)
5) BTW, I think it would be more correct to rename the "de Savoie" dynasty in "di Savoia ". It sounds more italian and then more historical.

EDIT: new modification. It concerns "of Geneve" dynasty (id100239). It would be more correct to give her his german name: "von Genf"
 
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This list was compiled with information origionally compiled by Ayeshteni (Jehanne's Footstool) for an earlier project he was involved in. In that project, they created all of Scotland as Gaelic. Ayeshteni detailed the specific province each Clan name came from... so there is authinticity here.

In our project... we are dividing the Gaelic Highlands from the Scottish lowlands. Some of the above names appear in one or another form on either side.

Special note: Be sure to check for duplicate ids, these ids are currently in the game and in use. I added ADDID to those duplicate generic names.


Gaelic Scotland:
(Will always get Gaelic rendered generic dynasties)

35 Western Isles
36 Orkney
37 Caithness
38 Sutherland
39 Ross
45 Argyll
40 Moray




Code:
dynasty = {
	id = { type = 12 id = 3100 }
	name = "MacLeòid"
	province = { 35 38 39 }
}
dynasty = {
	id = { type = 12 id = 3101 }
	name = " MacDhomhnuill"
	province = { 35 39 40 45 }
}
dynasty = {
	id = { type = 12 id = 3102 }
	name = "MacDubhSithe"
	province = { 35 38 39 }
}
dynasty = {
	id = { type = 12 id = 3103 }
	name = "MacNeill"
	province = { 35 39 }
}
dynasty = {
	id = { type = 12 id = 3104 }
	name = "MacAoidh"
	province = { 36 37 38 }
}
dynasty = {
	id = { type = 12 id = 3105 }
	name = "MacCoinnich"
	province = { 38 39 40 }
}
dynasty = {
	id = { type = 12 id = 3106 }
	name = "Mac na Ceardadh"
	province = { 36 37 }
}
dynasty = {
	id = { type = 12 id = 3107 }
	name = "MacFingon "
	province = { 38 39 }
}
dynasty = {
	id = { type = 12 id = 3108 }
	name = "MacGrigair"
	province = { 45 }
}
dynasty = {
	id = { type = 12 id = 3109 }
	name = "MacDhughaill"
	province = { 45 }
}
dynasty = {
	id = { type = 12 id = 3110 }
	name = "Gunn"
	province = { 36 37 38 }
}
dynasty = {
	id = { type = 12 id = 3111 }
	name = "Mac an Rothaich"
	province = { 40 }
}
dynasty = {
	id = { type = 12 id = 3112 }
	name = "MacNeacail"
	province = { 38 39 }
}
dynasty = {
	id = { type = 12 id = 3113 }
	name = "Ceiteach"
	province = { 37 38 }
}
dynasty = {
	id = { type = 12 id = 3117 }
	name = "MacPhearsain"
	province = { 40 }
}
dynasty = {
	id = { type = 12 id = 3119 }
	name = "Friswal"
	province = { 40 }
}
dynasty = {
	id = { type = 12 id = 3127 }
	name = "MacAmhlaidh"
	province = { 45 }
}
dynasty = {
	id = { type = 12 id = 3128 }
	name = "Caimbeul"
	province = { 45 }
}
dynasty = {
	id = { type = 12 id = 3129 }
	name = "Camshron"
	province = { 40 45 }
}
dynasty = {
	id = { type = 12 id = ADDID }
	name = "Grannd"
	province = { 40 }
}
dynasty = {
	id = { type = 12 id = ADDID }
	name = "Stiubhart"
	province = { 45 }
}
dynasty = {
	id = { type = 12 id = ADDID }
	name = "MacLachlainn"
	province = { 45 }
}
dynasty = {
	id = { type = 12 id = 3138 }
	name = "Craigies"
	province = { 36 37 }
}


Scottish Scotland
These are Scottish (Anglized) generic dynasty names.

41 Buchan
42 Mar
43 Angus
44 Atholl
46 Fife
47 Strathclyde
48 Lothian
49 Carrick
50 Galloway
51 Berwick

Code:
dynasty = {
	id = { type = 12 id = 3114 }
	name = "MacBean"
	province = { 41 42 }
}
dynasty = {
	id = { type = 12 id = 3115 }
	name = "MacIntosh"
	province = { 41 43 }
}
dynasty = {
	id = { type = 12 id = 3116 }
	name = "MacGillivray"
	province = { 41 44 }
}
dynasty = {
	id = { type = 12 id = ADDID }
	name = "MacPherson"
	province = { 44 }
}
dynasty = {
	id = { type = 12 id = 3118 }
	name = "Barclay"
	province = { 43 44 }
}
dynasty = {
	id = { type = 12 id = ADDID}
	name = "Fraser"
	province = { 44 }
}
dynasty = {
	id = { type = 12 id = 3120 }
	name = "Ramsay"
	province = { 48 51 }
}
dynasty = {
	id = { type = 12 id = 3121 }
	name = "MacDuff"
	province = { 46 48 }
}
dynasty = {
	id = { type = 12 id = 3122 }
	name = "Lindsay"
	province = { 46 48 51 }
}
dynasty = {
	id = { type = 12 id = 3123 }
	name = "Bruce"
	province = { 46 48 49 50 51 53 }
}
dynasty = {
	id = { type = 12 id = 3124 }
	name = "Kennedy"
	province = { 47 49 }
}
dynasty = {
	id = { type = 12 id = 3125 }
	name = "Douglas"
	province = { 48 49 50 51 }
}
dynasty = {
	id = { type = 12 id = 3126 }
	name = "Ferguson"
	province = { 49 50 }
}
dynasty = {
	id = { type = 12 id = ADDID }
	name = "MacCaulay"
	province = { 47 49 }
}
dynasty = {
	id = { type = 12 id = ADDID }
	name = "Campbell"
	province = { 45 47 }
}
dynasty = {
	id = { type = 12 id = ADDID }
	name = "Cameron"
	province = { 44 }
}
dynasty = {
	id = { type = 12 id = 3130 }
	name = "Gordon"
	province = { 41 42 43 }
}
dynasty = {
	id = { type = 12 id = 3131 }
	name = "Skene"
	province = { 42 43 }
}
dynasty = {
	id = { type = 12 id = 3132 }
	name = "Grant"
	province = { 41 42 44 }
}
dynasty = {
	id = { type = 12 id = 3133 }
	name = "Wallace"
	province = { 47 49 }
}
dynasty = {
	id = { type = 12 id = 3134 }
	name = "Stewart"
	province = { 47 }
}
dynasty = {
	id = { type = 12 id = 3135 }
	name = "MacLachlan"
	province = { 45 }
}
dynasty = {
	id = { type = 12 id = 3136 }
	name = "Baird"
	province = { 48 49 51 }
}
dynasty = {
	id = { type = 12 id = 3137 }
	name = "Oliphant"
	province = { 44 46 }
}
dynasty = {
	id = { type = 12 id = 3139 }
	name = "Livingstone"
	province = { 48 }
}
dynasty = {
	id = { type = 12 id = 3140 }
	name = "Forbes"
	province = { 41 42 43 }
}
dynasty = {
	id = { type = 12 id = 3141 }
	name = "Armstrong"
	province = { 50 53 }
}
dynasty = {
	id = { type = 12 id = 3142 }
	name = "Johnston"
	province = { 50 53 }
}
dynasty = {
	id = { type = 12 id = 3143 }
	name = "MacInnes"
	province = { 50 53 }
}
dynasty = {
	id = { type = 12 id = 3145 }
	name = "Strathbogie"
	province = { 44 }
}
}
 
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