Deus Vult Improvement Pack - Discussion

[Drachenfire]

Reuploaded it -- the only update is an altered country.csv with a few changed country colours.
I never noticed before that just about all crusader kingdoms except Jerusalem used the same fugly gray, so I picked a few new colours for them.

I will download when I return from work! Cant wait to see it... this and your other mod.

By chance, might you consider having K.o. Wales as Imperial purple (Purple connects the Welsh with their ancestors... the Romano-Britons, the Brythoniad)... or a Green? Personally I prefer purple. And then have slate grey for the duchy of Gwynedd?

Understandable if you dont, I can change them in game.

[jordarkelf]

Green would conflict with Ireland, unless you mean the green Poland uses -- but I can make it Purple.
Gwynned can be turned grey, I don't think another duchy in Britain uses the colour.
I'm also looking into giving Georgia a new colour, its current light blue is the same colour as the Ilkhanat. Maybe red (like Denmark).
I'm building an all-duchies scenario now (just like the all-kingdoms scenario I used to make the screencap here), once I've it ready colour comparison will be easier.

[Veldmaarschalk]

Have you edited the scenario files with another text-editor ? Since when I open it with Wordpad some files (1066_characters f.e.) look weird.


Radulf/Ralph de Gael (id 5650) , count of Norfolk and his son Ranulf (id 5652) both have Norman culture, I think they should have Breton culture

Ralph the Staller

Ralph de Guader


Also Robert (id 142) the first son of William the Conquerer had as nickname 'Curthose' while the 3rd son, William (id 146), had as nickname 'Rufus'

[jordarkelf]

I'm still using the same editor, Notepad++. I may have accidentally saved it as Unix format though.

[Koson]

Which culture tags are free to use in IP7? I usually play the county of Salerno and like to make them "Lombard" - since my usual tag picks of "iberian" or "celtic" were already used I tried assigning "templar" to "lombard" but after making all the changes in-game it shows as culture "none" so I assume that although present in world_names.csv "templar" as a culture tag was not implemented.
So, is there a culture tag still free to use along with IP7 or are all taken?

[Veldmaarschalk]

Which culture tags are free to use in IP7? I usually play the county of Salerno and like to make them "Lombard" - since my usual tag picks of "iberian" or "celtic" were already used I tried assigning "templar" to "lombard" but after making all the changes in-game it shows as culture "none" so I assume that although present in world_names.csv "templar" as a culture tag was not implemented.
So, is there a culture tag still free to use along with IP7 or are all taken?

The only tag that isn't used and that also can be used (Norse, Templar, Teutonic, Hospitaller are hardcoded culture tags that can't be reused) is the 'None' tag.

It functions just as any other culture-tag, you can rename it in world_names.csv.

It is a 'light' culture and the sprite is the 'turkish' troop-sprite.

There is one small 'problem' with the 'none' tag, it is used in the game for units that are created by events, like when you go on a crusade and you get a event that gives you 'volunteers' those volunteers will have the 'none'-tag as culture. But that is just a minor thing.

[Koson]

Thanks!

[tombom]

I'm building an all-duchies scenario now (just like the all-kingdoms scenario I used to make the screencap here), once I've it ready colour comparison will be easier.

I actually made a claim scenario generator ages back - not sure if it still works right.

[jordarkelf]

Hey nice. If it still works, that'll save me some time

//Edit: Works perfectly! Nice, this gives me an easy way to see which duchies and kingdoms need their colours revised. I've already spotted at least four cases where neighbouring duchies have exactly the same colour.

[jordarkelf]

Mass-edit of country.csv complete, now no two neighbouring duchies or no two kingdoms share the same colour.
This means that many nations now have changed colours, which is especially visible when the big realms such as Germany begin breaking up.

Download here, place directly into the Crusader Kings/db folder.
It will also be in the next version of the DVIP (but isn't yet in the zip).

As always suggestions welcomed. I have attempted to minimize use of German brown/green and Imperial Purple as much as possible, but they have been used in some places where all other colours were already used.

One thing that's hard to check is how duchy colours mesh with kingdom and muslim colours, if you notice any obvious clashes please let me know.

[Brother Onion]

Warwick now includes Gloucester
GLOU is now Salisbury

i noticed in worldnames.csv that both GLOU and WARW are named "Salisbury"

is WARW supposed to have a different name?

[Hundhedning]

About the swedish royal dynasty in 1066:

The scenario starts out with Erik Stenkilsätten as king. In-game, he has three brothers: Halsten, Inge and Håkan, all of whom were to become King of Sweden at one time or another. (Håkan is likely identical with Haakon the Red, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haakon_the_Red ) .

In 1080, the brother-in-law of King Inge Stenkilsätten, Sven (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blot-Sweyn) , rebelled against him and allied with the remaining pagans of Sweden, thereby deposing Inge in half of Sweden for a few years. Sven is represented in-game by Sven Kolsson Sverkerätten, the Duke of Östergötland. I suggest that Sven should be pagan, not catholic, that he is given a claim on the throne of Sweden and that Inge start the game as married to Sven’s sister. Her name would be Maer or Helena, depending on which source you believe.

EDIT: Also, the Duke of Uppland (Erik Anundsson of Munsö) should probably be pagan. He is in all likelihood supposed to be Erik the Pagan, the pagan candidate to the throne after king Stenkil died in 1066. He and Erik Stenkilsätten fought a brief civil war on the issue where they both perished (I'm not sure that Erik the Pagan should be the grandson of Emund Olofsson, though).

[jordarkelf]

Yeah, WARW is supposed to be Warwick. I must've forgotten to change that back.

[jordarkelf]

Deus Vult has become so unstable on my system (even with all mods removed) that I can hardly play 6 months before a CtD happens. I am putting this mod on hold until we get a patch, or I get my patience for it back.

[Drachenfire]

I know your taking a break from moding because of the crashes, but can you look into this for possible next update?

As I was looking up the history of Norway, I stumbled upon this artical which points to the ruling dynasty in the 11th through 14th centuries more correctly should be Hårfagreætta.

I have not studied Norweigen history, but it seems that the Hårfagreætta dynasty is a cadet branch of the Yngling

[Drachenfire]

Additionally:

I think that Phillip Capet, King of France, should have a claim on Duchy of Normandy. Also, there should be a rivalry between him and William de Normandy, king of England.

[Veldmaarschalk]

I know your taking a break from moding because of the crashes, but can you look into this for possible next update?

As I was looking up the history of Norway, I stumbled upon this artical which points to the ruling dynasty in the 11th through 14th centuries more correctly should be Hårfagreætta.

I have not studied Norweigen history, but it seems that the Hårfagreætta dynasty is a cadet branch of the Yngling

I wouldn't make those changes based on just to Wiki-articles. The people (my guess Havard) who came up with the Yngling name for the game, know probably much more about Norwegian history then we do.

I think that Phillip Capet, King of France, should have a claim on Duchy of Normandy. Also, there should be a rivalry between him and William de Normandy, king of England.

Why should he have a claim ? William was the rightfull ruler of the duchy of Normandy, Philip had no claims on it at all. The French kings were weak at that point and they were not more then the 'first among equals'. A French king couldn't just revoke titles from his vassals, just because he felt like it.

And in game sooner or later the French and English kings will start a war over Normandy.

[Rogan de Auria]

About the Iberian Peninsula:

1. Culture:
I have seen Duchy of Galicia culture is the same of Portugal in this mod
good work! much better than calling it "Castilian"
...but, the correct name for this culture is "Galician-Portuguese" although I understand it's too damn long to put it in the game

2. Military Orders:
In the 1187 scenario Calatrava county is set as part of the Almohad Empire but with a "castilian catholic" ruler. The "castilian catholic" ruler is ok but it didn't belong to the Almohads nor to the Castilians, it was the home of the military order of Calatrava, a spanish knightly order similar to that of the Templars -but not as powerful-.
I don't know if it is possible, or even a good idea, to put new military orders in the game, but this are the Iberian ones:
"Order of Calatrava" (in Calatrava province) with it`s fellow branches of "Order of Alcantara" (same name as the province too) and the portuguese "Order of Aviz" (home in Evora).
The "Order of Santiago" (castilian, homed in Cuenca, not in Santiago) was in the XIII century the most powerful.
The XIVs Orders of "Montesa" (in Valencia, aragonese branch of "Calatrava") and the portuguese "Order of Christ" (a templars branch).

It's interesting to note that in the game the Alcantara and Calatrava shields are those of the Military orders of the same name, not a family or county heraldry.

3. Santiago de Compostela and the way of Saint James:
Santiago de Compostela was one of the most sacred places for christianity during middle ages, second only to Jerusalem and Rome.
I don't know how it's implemented in DV but in CK "Santiago de Compostela" (the "Compostela" province) was not a primary target for crusading.
In real life it was never taken by the moors (although it was looted by "Al-Mansur"), but if this had happened it would be for sure the main target in the whole Iberian peninsula, despite all economical and political interest.

ps: very good mod

[Drachenfire]

I wouldn't make those changes based on just to Wiki-articles. The people (my guess Havard) who came up with the Yngling name for the game, know probably much more about Norwegian history then we do.



Why should he have a claim ? William was the rightfull ruler of the duchy of Normandy, Philip had no claims on it at all. The French kings were weak at that point and they were not more then the 'first among equals'. A French king couldn't just revoke titles from his vassals, just because he felt like it. Anyway, Hårfagreætta is the modern Norweigian name for they dynasty that ruled during the CK era. We've used less precise sources in the past.

And in game sooner or later the French and English kings will start a war over Normandy.

I am not an expert in Norweigen history, but it seems legitimate to me. It doesnt matter to me either way though. I do like the Hårfagreætta name better though, it seems more specific and precise. Harvard may have been wrong himself anyway, or may not have seen the Hårfagreætta name.

In light of the absence of female succession in any form, I am uncertin how much I would trust Paradox neutrality in the game.

I would give the French King claim against Normandy to facilitate a potential historical conflict between England and France. However, this may be solved by the rivalries.

There should be some reflection of the fact that the French kings always demanded that the English king do homage for Normandy and later Anjou. Having a claim or rivalry in this regard would suffice for this imo. If there is a rivalry in place maybe this would indeed best reflect the situation... I havent played long enough to see how rivalries play out exactly.

[Veldmaarschalk]

I would give the French King claim against Normandy to facilitate a potential historical conflict between England and France. However, this may be solved by the rivalries. There should be some reflection of the fact that the French kings always demanded that the English king do homage for Normandy and later Anjou. Having a claim or rivalry in this regard would suffice for this imo.

In 3 out of 4 games France and England will go to war, even without rivalries or claims at the start of the scenario. So I don't think there is a need for this.