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Changelist thus far follows, note that this is not yet available for download, nor final. I will release a v7 when I feel it is ready, no sooner.

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Changelist for IPV7:

Database:
Moray now Mountain terrain
"Of Canossa" dynasty now "di Canossa"
Added a number of Welsh & Breton dynasties
Brittany is now split in two duchies: Lower Brittany (BRIT) and Upper Brittany (ELRI)
Duchy of (Welsh) March (MADA) added
Warwick now includes Gloucester
GLOU is now Salisbury
Country.csv and Province.csv tweaked for improved cultural setups
Event bugfix: Events 7024/5 "My lord, should we burn this building to the ground?" will now remove a building from the defender, not the attacker...

Graphics:
Improved Welsh CoAs by Drachenfire & Gigau
Altered CoA for GLOU
New CoAs by Jordarkelf & Gigau

1066:
Gave the di Canossas of Toscana Italian names
Names corrected of nobles in Seleukeia and Melitene
Daughters added to county of Melitene
Duplicate Cynan Aberffraw removed
County of Shrewsbury (+Chester) now ruled by the Saxon Eadric the Wild
Grand alliance created between the northern Saxons and Gwynned
Rivalries added between southern Welsh
Rivalries added for William the Conqueror and Eadric the Wild
Rivalry added for Lübeck/Mecklemburg
Rivalry added for Uppland/Sweden
Lowered loyalty of the northern Saxons to make them even more likely to rebel
Added Hereward the Wake to Lincolnshire, he has a claim on it (represents Isle of Ely), is friend of Morcar Leofricson, and rival of Willy the Conker

1187:
Gwynned split up between duchy of Gwynned (Perfeddwld) and county of Gwynned
Powys' dynasty now Mathrafal
Deheubarth's dynasty now Dinefwr
Deheubarth no longer an English vassal
Konstanza of Brittany now has a Breton name. For playability reasons her dynasty is set to that of her son.
Jerusalem now ruled by Queen Sibylla. For playability reasons her dynasty is set to that of her husband.
Baldwin II and Melisende of Jerusalem added
Extended Folk of Jerusalem's family: added his first wife, her father, and made Sybille d'Anjou his daughter. This links Jerusalem to the Angevins as well as Philip of Flanders.
Angevin ancestor is given the bastard trait to prevent possible inheritance of Jerusalem by England (gameplay fix)
Added Gerard II van Wassenberg and his dead son Gerard (brother of Otto I, husband of Ida) to Gelre. Birthdate corrected
Boulogne now ruled by Countess Ida (since 1173). Both her former marriages added
County of Guines now ruled by Arnaud (lover of Ida countess of Boulogne)
Added the De Rethel dynasty to the provine of Reims (family of Baldwin II of Jerusalem), linked them to Armenia
Stephen of Armenia is now called Stepané
Reims now ruled by Manasses de Rethel (representing county of Rethel); Marie Capet returned to Champagne (was still regentess for Henri in early 1187)
Corrected data for Empress Maud and her father Henry I so they actually appear in the dynasty
Added Henry I's dead son William Adelin, as well as William's wife Matilda-Isabella d'Anjou
Henry II FitzEmpress' bastard William now is of the "de Longespée" dynasty
Merged two instances of Henry the Young King
Linked Henry the Young's wife to correct character, added their stillborn son William. Made Henry's wife Marguerite almost infertile.
Brittany now a vassal of England, not France -- Konstanza ruled as regentess for Geoffrey's son Arthur, who was at the time expected to come to the throne of England as well.

1337:
Trebizond is now a kingdom again
 
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jordarkelf said:
I think I actually have that CoA in wood texture somewhere... but isn't that essentially the CoA of Dreux (France) with a Breton canton? Robert Capet was, as his last name reveals, a member of the French royalty.
Indeed it is Pierre de Dreux 's CoA, but we can see in the canton the oldest form of Brittany heraldy : the plain hermine.
duc-10.jpg


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About the Marches, since you want to use them, what are the provinces included in the Duchy ? Tourraine, Anjou and Maine ?
Rennes and Nantes can't be called Marches by Bretons as they are capitals of their Duchy !

I think rather than Marches, we can use the Basse-Bretagne and Haute-Bretagne (west and east) or in Breton Breizh Izel and Breizh Uthel (or Haùtt-Bertaèyn in gallo) which are linguistic regions.
 
About the Marches, since you want to use them, what are the provinces included in the Duchy ? Tourraine, Anjou and Maine ?

That would mean that there won't be a duchy of Anjou ? And Anjou was a real (and important) county/duchy in the middle ages, while the Breton March would be a 'fantasy' one, at least for the CK-era.
 
Bruit Bleu said:
Yes indeed, that's why I don't agree with the use of carolingan Marches.

Ah, sorry misunderstood you :) I would keep the duchy of Brittany as it is, during the CK-era it always was one political entity. The Breton March ceased to exist long before CK starts.

I also wouldn't make Brittany into a (creatable) kingdom, IMHO it doesn't improve the game, but just adds a small easy to create kingdom for the human player.

But if you really want to add it then here is a map of the kingdom

Brittany.jpg
 
Current proposed setup is as follows:

Brittany proper:
-Penthievre
-Leon
-Cornouaille
-Vannes
Breton March:
-Rennes
-Nantes

Incidentally this matches exactly the linguistic/cultural boundary of Breton/Gallo.

Warwick:
-Gloucester
-Warwick
Welsh March:
-Hereford
-Chester
-Shrewsbury
Salisbury:
-Salisbury
-Bristol

Here I had to be arbitrary, since England doesn't have many duchies like Europe does. Since the introduction of a Welsh March made Warwick into a one province duchy I added Gloucester to it, and the remainder thus became Salisbury again.


Breton Kingdom -- I can see all the arguments for and against, but in its current form (Brittany+March) it is six provinces -- larger than Navarra and equal to Wales. Plus it removes a large "none" area, and allows a way for Breton independence.

I like the idea of using local names -- Breizh (Breton) for the west duchy and Bertaèyn (Gallo) for the east one?

Welsh March can be renamed to just "March" -- the title was after all "Earl of March".
 
I like the idea of using local names -- Breizh (Breton) for the west duchy and Bertaèyn (Gallo) for the east one?

Wouldn't that be a bit inconsistent ?

Bayern is called Bavaria, Vlaanderen is called Flanders, Ulaid is called Ulster and so on.
 
Veldmaarschalk said:
Wouldn't that be a bit inconsistent ?

Bayern is called Bavaria, Vlaanderen is called Flanders, Ulaid is called Ulster and so on.
Just a bit.
Most other marches have been removed from the game in patches though -- we no longer have the Spanish or Italian march.

"Welsh March" or "March" was in use for the entire CK timeframe, but unfortunately I don't know of a proper Breton division until far outside the CK timeframe, when Brittany has long become irrelevant.
 
Veldmaarschalk said:
Wouldn't that be a bit inconsistent ?

Bayern is called Bavaria, Vlaanderen is called Flanders, Ulaid is called Ulster and so on.


I am with Veld on this, it should be rendered in English, for consistancy. Are we not hoping these changes are added to the official DV release sometime in future? If we use local names this may prevent inclusion in an official patch.

I dont mind "Duchy of the March," as the March's location is on the Welsh border.
 
I think rather than Marches, we can use the Basse-Bretagne and Haute-Bretagne (west and east) or in Breton Breizh Izel and Breizh Uthel (or Haùtt-Bertaèyn in gallo) which are linguistic regions.


This is a good point by Bruit Bleu, prehaps rather then the Breton March, it should be East Brittany and West Brittany ? Though I would love to use native languages, I think for consistancy we should use the standarized English for the titles.
 
jordarkelf said:
Lower and Upper Brittany?


Even better yes! But, from a Duke of Brittany's prespective, what would be Lower and Upper? lol. But yes, this is a much better and consistant form.
 
The case for Brittany as a "kingdom"


As we know, we are limited to only three tier levels to represent the various political realities of feudal Europe, and game mechanics will not allow for more subtle diplomacy and inter-realm conflict (vassels of a lord waring against each other, without the leige coming down too hard). Additionally, we recognize that these various levels also grant additional abilities the higher level one achives, a count has less ability then a duke, and a duke less ability to maneouver then a king.This begs for them to be a recreatable "kingdom-tier," giving the "player of" wider room to play.

Through out Brittany's history, what ever the actual title of its primary ruler, its diplomacy and internal governane has reflected that of a de jure and de facto Soverign nation. Using their geographic position, the rulers of Brittany (weather or not they were ethnic Bretons themselves) successfully played the powers of England and France off of each other. They were able to sucessfuly do this well until the 15th century, when a forced marriage between Ann of Brittany and the French king and then his heir ment that Ann's own heir was also the French king. So Breton independence remain de jure a political reality, well throughout the CK time frame, dispite various periodes when it became a satalite of England (1187 Battle of Hattin Scenario) or France (1330's scenario).

This was also the history of Scotland, and even the Welsh principalities until their conquest in 1283.

However, given game mechanics, the player of Brittany rarely has the opportunity to represent this historic position, because in his current tier level he is unable to garner any "ducal prestige," or gather much other additional provances.

The answer is to simply raise the tier level to the next highest level, thereby allowing the Breton player to further reflect history. This will mean that any player of France will have to watch his western flank, as they did have to historically. There is a reason why France wished to expand and subject Brittany under its influence.

If the question is weather or no this would represent an "easy crown" for France or England, there are various other "eacy crowns" out there. This move does not lessen France at all, as Brittany is outside of the K.o France taged provances. And allowing any player of... or even a.i to create and recreate the title allows for the French player to expierence the same threat on its flanks, as England has to with Wales and Scotland.
 
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jordarkelf said:
Just translations :)

Basse = Lower, Haute = Upper. So Lower would be the west, Upper the east (the march).


In the words of Mary Poppins... its "practically perfect in every way!"
 
With this argument all important duchies should be made kingdoms, Flanders, Provence, Toulouse in France. Saxony, Bavaria, Lorraine in Germany, Genoa, Veneto, Lombardy, Tuscany in Italy, all the Russian princepalities.

Most of the time these 'nations' followed their own foreign polices and acted independent from their liege. Brittany isn't special at all. Flanders f.e. played of the kings of France, England the Emperor against each other and the count was a very important man.

Brittany in the CK timeframe was never a kingdom nor was its ruler ever treated as a king in the CK timeframe.


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Another point, in the new characternameslist, is see that there Roger Borsa is a character name. 'Borsa' was a nickname of Roger the first son of Robert. Just like Robert had the nickname 'Guiscard' or his brother had the nickname 'Iron Arm'.
 
Brittany is far more comparable to Bohemia than Flanders.
Like Bohemia, Brittany was a powerful duchy with a culture quite different from its overlord, and like Bohemia, its status shifted between independent and vassal many times.

Arthur II for example divided Brittany in 8 duchies in 1309 -- something he hardly could have done had he considered Brittany a mere Duchy.

Only because his son died childless in 1341 did Brittany eventually become a mere part of France. Had Yann III had sons, Brittany would likely have remained independent, as it wouldn't have become tied up in the Hundred Years War.

Brittany's status in 1066-1341 thus is more like that of Wales or Bohemia in the same period -- it is a duchy that is more powerful than other duchies, but not quite a kingdom.
Unfortunately there is no "grand duke" or "minor king" tier, so Brittany will need to be either represented as a duchy belonging to no kingdom (the method chosen until now in the IP), or a kingdom in its own right like Wales or Bohemia. Making it a part of France (CK/DV vanilla) is 100% wrong no matter what.

I feel more for making it a kingdom -- I've played a while with it in, and I've not yet seen the AI create it even though it holds all provinces, so it isn't that easy. It's just slightly easier than Denmark, and as hard as Wales.

Your examples are flawed except for Veneto and the Russians by the way. And Venice *is* a kingdom level tag in all scenarios -- but can't be recreated, just like Navarra. I considered making Brittany nonrecreatable, but I believe that had Brittany ever fully broken ties with France, it would have remained until it was conquered -- this means kingdom level to me.

The Russian kniazes don't need to be king level since there are no powerful kingdoms directly neighbouring them. If only we had another tier!
 
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Veldmaarschalk said:
Another point, in the new characternameslist, is see that there Roger Borsa is a character name. 'Borsa' was a nickname of Roger the first son of Robert. Just like Robert had the nickname 'Guiscard' or his brother had the nickname 'Iron Arm'.
Ah, gotcha. I thought it was a name, not a nickname. Will be removed.
 
Arthur II for example divided Brittany in 8 duchies in 1309

Are you sure that he created 8 'duchies' ? The wikipedia article speaks of 'battles'.

Who were the dukes ? How long did those duchies exist ?
 
"Battle" is just like "Graviate" a mediaeval subdivision higher than county, but lower than king/prince/etc..
Ergo, the second tier, implying the title above them is the third tier -- or rather that pesky "archduke" tier we'd need.

I don't have info on who became lords over them, but they lasted until the Breton War of Succession.