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Thread: Deus Vult Improvement Pack - Discussion

  1. #741
    Crazy Crusader Kings Creator jordarkelf's Avatar
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    MARK

    Veld, thanks a lot for these additions and corrections

  2. #742
    Captain Hasimir Fenring's Avatar
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    I found an error in the 1066 scenario. Maybe I've been misunderstood:

    Anna Rurikovich (mother of king Philippe) is the second wife of Raoul de Valois (the first one is unknown). She married him when she was 45 or something. Then she can't be the mother of Raoul's children: Simon, Alix-Adèle and another daughter IIRC. BTW Alix-Adèle should be rename into Alix (but she is sometimes known as Adèle ).

    Small question for you Djord' : what do you think of my proposal to rename "Capet" dynasty into "de France" dynasty?
    Audaces fortuna juvat

  3. #743
    Crazy Crusader Kings Creator jordarkelf's Avatar
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    You're saying they married around 1050, so the first three children of her should have no mother set. Did you mention this before and have I forgotten it, or did I misunderstand you?

    Alix-Adèle -- the hyphenated name is there because she was referred to as both names, just like Mariam-Martha Bagratuni in Macedonia, and a few other characters.

    Capet vs De France -- I prefer keeping Capet as it was the real dynastic name (as much as we can say they had one). "De France" is a style.


    Thanks for the promo in your signature

  4. #744
    Captain Hasimir Fenring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jordarkelf
    You're saying they married around 1050, so the first three children of her should have no mother set. Did you mention this before and have I forgotten it, or did I misunderstand you?

    Alix-Adèle -- the hyphenated name is there because she was referred to as both names, just like Mariam-Martha Bagratuni in Macedonia, and a few other characters.

    Capet vs De France -- I prefer keeping Capet as it was the real dynastic name (as much as we can say they had one). "De France" is a style.


    Thanks for the promo in your signature
    1) yep, no mother set for Simon, Adèle-Alix and the other girl. I surely didn't explain myself enough clearly.

    2)ok, it just sounds too long for me.

    3) Capet is not a real dynastic name.

    -It was Hughes I's nickname. There are several explanations about it. According to Patrick WEBER (who wrote a book called Les rois de France), it refers to the monastry of Saint Martin de Tours, which one was hold by a laïque abbot, Hughes himself. In this monastry was kept a relic, the CAPE of Saint Martin.

    -Capet wasn't used by any member of the dynasty until 1792. Most of the time, members of the dynasty were known as members of the "de France" 's dynasty. Like Isabella DE FRANCE who married Edward II of England.

    -During his trial in 1792-1793, Louis XVIth was treated like a normal citizen. Then, the revolutionnaries had to find him a normal family name. They unearthed Hughes' old nickname (CAPET) because he was the founder of the dynasty. See the second paragraph, here

    Hope I convince you
    Audaces fortuna juvat

  5. #745
    Crazy Crusader Kings Creator jordarkelf's Avatar
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    Aha, but see "Edward II of England"? Same deal. In-game he is called "Edward Plantagenet", but "nobility needs no last names". If you would ask him his name, he would no doubt call himself "of England", since Plantagenet is the name later applied to the dynasty.

    The same goes for Isabelle de France -- she was a member of the House (or dynasty) of Capet.

    If the Capetians had ever lost the French throne the new dynasty would style itself "of France", and the Capetians would use a new style (if they had held any power). This happened in fact when the Valois line took over, which was a cadet branch of the Capetians which named itself after their holdings in Valois. And again when the Bourbon line took over, another cadet branch which began in Bourbon.


    In CK you play the dynasty, not the country. And since the dynasty can easily lose its lands, the dynastic name -- or the closest thing to it -- is the only logical name.

    I'm thus not convinced

  6. #746
    Captain Hasimir Fenring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jordarkelf
    Aha, but see "Edward II of England"? Same deal. In-game he is called "Edward Plantagenet", but "nobility needs no last names". If you would ask him his name, he would no doubt call himself "of England", since Plantagenet is the name later applied to the dynasty.

    The same goes for Isabelle de France -- she was a member of the House (or dynasty) of Capet.

    If the Capetians had ever lost the French throne the new dynasty would style itself "of France", and the Capetians would use a new style (if they had held any power). This happened in fact when the Valois line took over, which was a cadet branch of the Capetians which named itself after their holdings in Valois. And again when the Bourbon line took over, another cadet branch which began in Bourbon.


    In CK you play the dynasty, not the country. And since the dynasty can easily lose its lands, the dynastic name -- or the closest thing to it -- is the only logical name.

    I'm thus not convinced
    Nevermind, I tried the best I could !
    Last edited by Hasimir Fenring; 10-03-2008 at 18:57.
    Audaces fortuna juvat

  7. #747
    Crazy Crusader Kings Creator jordarkelf's Avatar
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    WIP DVIP version next changelog:

    Database:
    *) Upper Brittany renamed to Breton March
    *) Province 276 has been renamed to Hedmark
    *) Some dynasties renamed to localized versions
    *) Welsh naming list revised
    *) Porhoet dynasty renamed to De Porhoët
    *) Base income of Apulia and Consenza swapped
    *) Great number of Finnish dynasties added
    *) Buchanan dynasty added to Scotland
    *) Huntington dynasty renamed to Huntingdon
    *) Many Hungarian dynasties added
    *) Added a few Cornish dynasties

    1066:
    *) First three children of Raoul de Valois have lost Anna Rurikovich as their mother
    *) Restored nickname of Vladimir Monomakh
    *) Corrected errors in Scottish ruling dynasty and swapped some children's traits
    *) Verdun is now French as is its dynasty. Missing children added.
    *) Sundgau reassigned to Verdun
    *) Added the extended family of Drogo de Brevere
    *) Brient Penteur is count of Cornwall
    *) Robert de Conteville moved to Exeter (repr. Mortain)
    *) Characters added to Boulogne, Guines, Eu
    *) Gallo Bretons (re)turned into French and returned their original names
    *) Pedro Froilaz shares his father's dynasty
    *) Added missing characters to Capua
    *) Added the county of Lecce (repr. Brindisi)

    1187:
    *) Scots king William is now called The Lion, his dead brother Malcolm 'Virgo'.
    *) Baldwin of Utrecht is now Boudewijn
    *) Vikings of Orkney have their cognomen and claims on Western Isles
    *) Added several characters to Western Isles
    *) Added bastard son of John Lackland
    *) Added several minor nobles to England
    *) Linked up the dynasties of Flanders and Upper Lorraine
    *) Returned several Gallo Breton nobles to French culture and returned their original names
    *) Oultrejordain is ruled by Stephanie de Milly. Law has been changed to semisalic.
    *) Added multiple characters to the De Milly family of K. of Jerusalem
    *) Added county of Embriacos in Beirut repr. Jebail/Giblet
    *) Moved Joscelin de Courtenay to Safed and gave him his wife
    *) Spanish knight order has the right setup again

    1337:
    *) Ilkhanate setup revised
    Last edited by jordarkelf; 14-03-2008 at 17:43.

  8. #748
    The Closer Supermoderator Veldmaarschalk's Avatar
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    Some more suggestions

    1187 scenario Flanders

    1. Rename the dynastie to 'd'Alsace'

    2. Add a bastard-son to the current duke of Flanders, he should be named Thierry

    http://genealogy.euweb.cz/lorraine/lorraine11.html#D2

    C3. [2m.] Ct Philip of Flanders (1168-91), Cte de Vermandois, Regent of France, *ca 1143, +at Acre 1.7.1191; 1m: 1159 Cts Mabile de Vermandois et de Valois (+28.3.1183); 2m: VIII.1183 Matilda=Theresa of Portugal (*1157 +6.5.1218)
    D1. [illegitimate] Thierry of Flanders; m.1203 N, "le Damsel de Chypre", dau.of Issakios Dukas Komnenos, Emperor in Cyprus
    http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/FLAN...#_Toc182042959

    THIERRY de Flandre (-after 1207). Thierry was one of the leaders of the Flemish contingent in the Fourth Crusade. Villehardouin records that "Comte Philippe de Flandre's son Thierry" left with the fleet from Flanders and arrived at Marseille end-1202[366]. William of Tyre (Continuator) names "Bauduins chevalier d'Amienz qui estoit parent de l'empereor" when recording his departure on crusade and marriage at Marseille in 1203[367]. According to the Continuator of William of Tyre, when he arrived in Cyprus, Thierry requested Aimery I King of Cyprus to transfer the island to him, by right of his wife, but he was expelled and left for Armenia[368]. Villehardouin records that "Emperor Henri" placed "his nephew Thierry de Flandre" in charge of a company at Constantinople to fight against the Bulgarians in Jul 1207[369]. m (Marseille 1203) as her second husband, --- Komnene "la Damsel de Chypre", divorced wife of RAYMOND VI Comte de Toulouse, daughter of ISAAKIOS Dukas Komnenos ex-Emperor of Cyprus & his first wife --- of Armenia [Rupenid] ([1177/78]-after 1204). She is referred to as "fille de l'empereor de Chypre" by William of Tyre (Continuator) when he records her presence at Marseille where she met and married her husband en route to the Crusade[370].

    Code:
     character = {
    	id = { type = 10 id = 118712591 }
    	name = "Thierry"
    	gender = male
    	dynasty = { type = 12 id =428 }
    	father = { type = 10 id = 12591 }
    	country = FLAN
    	religion = catholic
    	culture = Frankish
    	birthdate = { year = 1170 month = january day = 1 }
    	dna = "57320111366003"
    	attributes = {
    		martial = 8
    		diplomacy = 3
    		intrigue = 8
    		stewardship = 3
    		health = 5
    		fertility = 7
    	}
    	traits = {
    		bastard = yes
    		reckless = yes
                             crusader = yes
    		tough_soldier = yes       
    		
    	}
    }
    3. Also add a bastard-son of the previous duke (Thierry I)

    http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/FLAN...#_Toc182042959



    9. GERARD d'Alsace dit de Flandre (-1206). The primary source which confirms his parentage has not yet been identified. Provost at Bruges. Chancellor of Flanders. He was a member of the Regency Council which was established in [1202] during the absence of Baudouin IX Count of Flanders on Crusade[415].
    Code:
    character = {
    	id = { type = 10 id = 118712592 }
    	name = "Gérard"
    	gender = male
    	dynasty = { type = 12 id =428 }
    	father = { type = 10 id = 12590 }
    	country = FLAN
    	religion = catholic
    	culture = Frankish
    	birthdate = { year = 1147 month = january day = 1 }
    	dna = "57022005126005"
    	attributes = {
    		martial = 3
    		diplomacy = 10
    		intrigue = 7
    		stewardship = 4
    		health = 5
    		fertility = 4
    	}
    	traits = {
    		bastard = yes
    		wise = yes
    		scholarly_theologian = yes
    	}
    }
    4. The ruling families of Upper-Lorraine and Flanders (de Lorraine and d'Alsace) are currently unrelated. If you want you can add the 2 or 3 missing links. It doesn't do anything for gameplay, so I don't really know for sure if we should esthablish this link

  9. #749
    Crazy Crusader Kings Creator jordarkelf's Avatar
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    I like to have the links, if they exist.

  10. #750
    The Closer Supermoderator Veldmaarschalk's Avatar
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    1066 scenario

    I. Count of Lincoln

    Drogo de Brevere is the count of Lincoln in 1066, not much can be found of him. Only that he came from Flanders and that he was married to a niece of William the Conquerer. The name of this niece is unknown just that she was probably a daughter of an uncle of William. Who was also named William (Guillaume) and who had died in 1054. Drogo and wife had a son named Richard.

    In the game Drogo has the Norman culture and alltough he came from Flanders I would let him keep him that culture. Because if you give him Dutch culture, his children will most likely get Dutch names, which just doesn't sound right.

    I would therefor like to suggest the following

    1. Add the uncle of William the Conquerer to the game

    Code:
    character = {
    	id = { type = 10 id = 1100403 }
    	name = "William"
    	gender = male
    	dynasty = { type = 12 id =752 }
    	father = { type = 10 id = 248 }
    	country = c108
    	religion = catholic
    	culture = Norman
    	birthdate = { year = 1020 month = january day = 1 }
    	deathdate = { year = 1054 month = august day = 28 }
    	dna = "87770213040602"
    	attributes = {
    		martial = 8
    		diplomacy = 7
    		intrigue = 7
    		stewardship = 7
    		health = 7
    		fertility = 7
    	}
    	traits = {
    		temperate = yes
    		intricate_webweaver = yes
    	}
    }
    2. Give him a daughter, which I have named Eleanore (a common Norman female name). Since adding her and her son, will make the son high in he heirs-list of the king of England I would also suggest to make her a 'bastard'. There was no chance that this son would ever be considered a candidate for the throne. At least that is my opinion

    Code:
    character = {
    	id = { type = 10 id = 1100404 }
    	name = "Eleonore"
    	gender = female
    	dynasty = { type = 12 id =752 }
    	father = { type = 10 id = 1100403 }
    	country = c061
    	religion = catholic
    	culture = Norman
    	birthdate = { year = 1041 month = january day = 1 }
    	dna = "87030213000602"
    	attributes = {
    		martial = 4
    		diplomacy = 6
    		intrigue = 4
    		stewardship = 7
    		health = 7
    		fertility = 7
    	}
    	traits = {
    		proud = yes
    		bastard = yes
    		martial_cleric = yes
    	}
    }
    3. And finally their son Richard

    Code:
    character = {
    	id = { type = 10 id = 1100405 }
    	name = "Richard"
    	gender = male
    	dynasty = { type = 12 id =749 }
    	father = { type = 10 id = 170 }
    	mother = { type = 10 id = 1100404 }
    	country = c061
    	religion = catholic
    	culture = Norman
    	birthdate = { year = 1060 month = january day = 1 }
    	dna = "87060221030610"
    	attributes = {
    		martial = 4
    		diplomacy = 4
    		intrigue = 4
    		stewardship = 4
    		health = 7
    		fertility = 7
    	}
    	traits = {
    		coward = yes
    		court_education = yes
    	}
    }
    EDIT

    4. Forgot the marriage for Drogo and Eleanore

    Code:
    marrige = {
    		primary = { type = 10 id = 170 }
    		secondary = { type = 10 id = 1100404 }
    		startdate = { year = 1058 month = january day = 1 }
    	}

  11. #751
    The Closer Supermoderator Veldmaarschalk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jordarkelf
    I like to have the links, if they exist.
    Add a father to Matthieu

    Code:
    character = {
    	id = { type = 10 id = 12581 }
    	name = "Mathieu"
    	gender = male
    	dynasty = { type = 12 id =715 }
    	father = { type = 10 id = 118712601 }
    	country = UPLO
    	religion = catholic
    	culture = Frankish
    	birthdate = { year = 1119 month = january day = 1 }
    	deathdate = { year = 1176 month = december day = 4 }
    	dna = "25218498964680"
    	attributes = {
    		martial = 5
    		diplomacy = 6
    		intrigue = 5
    		stewardship = 4
    		health = 8
    		fertility = 6
    	}
    	traits = {
    		proud = yes
    		flamboyant_schemer = yes
    	}
    }
    Add a father to Thierry

    Code:
    character = {
    	id = { type = 10 id = 12590 }
    	name = "Thierry"
    	gender = male
    	dynasty = { type = 12 id =428 }
    	father = { type = 10 id = 118712602 }
    	country = UPLO
    	religion = catholic
    	culture = Frankish
    	birthdate = { year = 1100 month = january day = 1 }
    	deathdate = { year = 1168 month = january day = 1 }
    	dna = "91607175673183"
    	attributes = {
    		martial = 8
    		diplomacy = 4
    		intrigue = 7
    		stewardship = 4
    		health = 7
    		fertility = 4
    	}
    	traits = {
    		proven_accountant = yes
    	}
    }
    And add these two characters

    Code:
    character = {
    	id = { type = 10 id = 118712601 }
    	name = "Simon"
    	gender = male
    	dynasty = { type = 12 id =715 }
    	father = { type = 10 id = 118712602 }
    	country = UPLO
    	religion = catholic
    	culture = Frankish
    	birthdate = { year = 1080 month = january day = 1 }
    	deathdate = { year = 1139 month = april day = 19 }
    	dna = "25048401964603"
    	attributes = {
    		martial = 5
    		diplomacy = 6
    		intrigue = 5
    		stewardship = 4
    		health = 8
    		fertility = 6
    	}
    	traits = {
    		zealous = yes
    		scholarly_theologian = yes
    	}
    
    }
    
    character = {
    	id = { type = 10 id = 118712602 }
    	name = "Dietrich"
    	gender = male
    	dynasty = { type = 12 id =715 }
    	country = UPLO
    	religion = catholic
    	culture = Frankish
    	birthdate = { year = 1055 month = january day = 1 }
    	deathdate = { year = 1115 month = april day = 23 }
    	dna = "83965356059917"
    	attributes = {
    		martial = 7
    		diplomacy = 5
    		intrigue = 5
    		stewardship = 7
    		health = 5
    		fertility = 5
    	}
    	traits = {
    		tough_soldier = yes
    	}
    
    }

  12. #752
    The Closer Supermoderator Veldmaarschalk's Avatar
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    1066 scenario

    II. County of Cornwall

    1. Drachenfire already made a request once to make Brient de Penteur, count of Cornwall in 1066. I would like to support this request.

    http://genealogy.euweb.cz/bretagne/bretagne3.html#EB

    E3. Brien de Bretagne, was given Cornwall
    http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/BRIT...#_Toc172797236

    BRIEN [Brient] de Bretagne (-maybe 14 Feb ----). Guillaume de Jumièges names "Brian fils d'Eudes comte de la petite Bretagne" recording that he defeated the sons of Harold II King of England[504]. Said to have commanded a band of Bretons, with his brother Alain, at the battle of Hastings 1066. Appointed Lieutenant in south-west England by King William I. He defeated the sons of King Harold II near the river Taw in Jun 1069[505]. Probably deposed after the rebellion of Ralph de Gaël in 1075. "Geoffrey count of the Bretons called Boterel" donated property to the abbey of Saint-Florent, Saumur with the consent of "all his brothers namely Brientius comes Angliæ terræ, and Alan Rufus his successor and another Alan who was called Niger, this third succeeded him in the kingdom" by charter dated to [1084][506]. He lived the remainder of his life as a semi-invalid in Brittany[507].
    http://www.mittelalter-genealogie.de.../cornwall.html (in German)

    [2] Nach 1066:
    Zum earl von Cornwall wurde wahrscheinlich 1066 Brian (ein junges Mitglied des Herzogs-Hauses der Bretagne) erhoben, der eine Truppe von Bretonen bei der Schlacht von Hastings geführt hatte. 1068 zog König Wilhelm der Eroberer durch Cornwall, 1069 mußte Brian einen Aufstand der Söhne des Harald Godwinsson im westlichen Landesteil niederschlagen. Doch beteiligte sich Brian 1075 an der Revolte des Ralph de Gael gegen König Wilhelm. Daraufhin wurde ihm sein earldom entzogen, und er verließ England.
    2. Since this would leave Robert de Conteville without a county, I would suggest to make Robert count of Exeter. Due to the lack of the county of Mortain in the game

  13. #753
    Paradox Unofficial Poker Brat Drakken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinnai
    And probably won't because it's quite cumbersome, even more than Divine Shadow's mod.

    So there is nothing in your mod that improves the "so-called" pledging issue?

    Truth be told, I have just started to play DV regularly, so perhaps someone could explain me what this so-called issue actually is.

  14. #754
    Crazy Crusader Kings Creator jordarkelf's Avatar
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    The problem is that DV constantly raises relations on each load, and since relations are a major factor in pledging, you end up with all muslims pledging to the same lord, christian realms blobbing all over the map, etc..
    My "fix" is an event that tries to fix the situation after the fact, but to really solve it you need to run Wiper's tool before each load.

    More and better info here/

    I don't think I'm exaggerating if I claim this is the #1 issue in DV.
    Last edited by jordarkelf; 10-03-2008 at 22:31.

  15. #755
    Crazy Crusader Kings Creator jordarkelf's Avatar
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    MARK

    Just in case you're wondering -- the above is a reminder to myself to what point I checked the thread and have implemented the changes. The WIP changelog in my sig posts more details on what has already made it in and should always be up-to-date.

  16. #756
    The Closer Supermoderator Veldmaarschalk's Avatar
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    1066 scenario

    III. County of Boulogne

    Count Eustatius II, had at least one 'bastard' son, who was named Godfried (or Godefroi or Geoffroy)

    http://genealogy.euweb.cz/crus/boulogne.html#G

    B5. [illegitimate] Godfrey, lord of Carshalton, went on the First Crusade; m.before 1086 Beatrix de Mandeville
    http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/NORT...#_Toc182712965

    GEOFFROY (-after 1100). The primary source which confirms his parentage has not yet been identified. Murray[121] suggests that Geoffrey may have been born legitimate because (1) his descendants were known as "de Boulogne", (2) he married well, and (3) he was given the first name of his father's older brother. Murray further suggests that, if this is correct, he would have been Comte Eustache's son by Godgifu of England, whose marriage may have been annulled for consanguinity, which would have resulted in the bastardisation of their children. Geoffroy was mentioned in a writ of William I King of England dated [1066/71]. Lord of Carshalton. He held the manor of Coton, Cambridgeshire from his father in 1086[122]. He was in Palestine in 1100. m ([1076/1085]) BEATRIX de Mandeville, daughter of GEOFFREY [I] de Mandeville & his first wife Adelais ---. The primary source which confirms her parentage and marriage has not yet been identified. Geoffroy & his wife had [three] children
    :

    Code:
    character = {
    	id = { type = 10 id = 1100415 }
    	name = "Godfried"
    	gender = male
    	dynasty = { type = 12 id =308 }
    	father = { type = 10 id = 20142 }
    	country = C075
    	religion = catholic
    	culture = dutch
    	birthdate = { year = 1041 month = january day = 0 }
    	dna = "15012111013300"
    	attributes = {
    		martial = 5
    		diplomacy = 5
    		intrigue = 5
    		stewardship = 5
    		health = 5
    		fertility = 6
    	}
    	traits = {
            	bastard = yes
    		martial_education = yes
    	}
    }
    This of course means that there will be two Godfried of Boulogne.

    IV. County of Guines

    The count of Guines, misses his brothers and sisters dearly

    http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/NORT...#_Toc182712969

    (BTW, should they really be Norman ? There are descendants from Vikings, but I think making them Dutch or Frankish would also be an option)

    Code:
    
    
    character = {
    	id = { type = 10 id = 1100385 }
    	name = "William"
    	gender = male
    	dynasty = { type = 12 id =102 }
    	father = { type = 10 id = 41230 }
    	mother = { type = 10 id = 41231 }
    	country = C074
    	religion = catholic
    	culture = norman
    	birthdate = { year = 1044 month = january day = 0 }
    	dna = "60023970439510"
    	attributes = {
    		martial = 5
    		diplomacy = 6
    		intrigue = 7
    		stewardship = 6
    		health = 5
    		fertility = 7
    	}
    	traits = {
    		honest = yes
    		naive_wirepuller = yes
    	}
    }
    character = {
    	id = { type = 10 id = 1100386 }
    	name = "Reinel"
    	gender = male
    	dynasty = { type = 12 id =102 }
    	father = { type = 10 id = 41230 }
    	mother = { type = 10 id = 41231 }
    	country = C074
    	religion = catholic
    	culture = norman
    	birthdate = { year = 1051 month = january day = 0 }
    	dna = "60023910429515"
    	attributes = {
    		martial = 5
    		diplomacy = 7
    		intrigue = 5
    		stewardship = 5
    		health = 5
    		fertility = 4
    	}
    	traits = {
    		ecclesiastical_education = yes
    		shy = yes
    	}
    }
    character = {
    	id = { type = 10 id = 1100387 }
    	name = "Adela"
    	gender = female
    	dynasty = { type = 12 id =102 }
    	father = { type = 10 id = 41230 }
    	mother = { type = 10 id = 41231 }
    	country = C074
    	religion = catholic
    	culture = norman
    	birthdate = { year = 1040 month = january day = 0 }
    	dna = "60020210429515"
    	attributes = {
    		martial = 3
    		diplomacy = 5
    		intrigue = 3
    		stewardship = 7
    		health = 5
    		fertility = 7
    	}
    	traits = {
    		generous = yes
    		scholarly_theologian = yes
    	}
    }
    character = {
    	id = { type = 10 id = 1100388 }
    	name = "Beatrice"
    	gender = female
    	dynasty = { type = 12 id =102 }
    	father = { type = 10 id = 41230 }
    	mother = { type = 10 id = 41231 }
    	country = C074
    	religion = catholic
    	culture = norman
    	birthdate = { year = 1047 month = january day = 0 }
    	dna = "00090206119506"
    	attributes = {
    		martial = 5
    		diplomacy = 5
    		intrigue = 5
    		stewardship = 5
    		health = 5
    		fertility = 7
    	}
    	traits = {
    		energetic = yes
    		suspicious = yes
    		harelip = yes
    		fortune_builder = yes
    	}
    }
    V. County of Eu

    The current count of Eu, Robert Hasting did have 2 other sons and 1 daughter. His eldest son was named Raoul, which if we stick with the Norman culture should be Ralph. But Ralph for some reason didn't become the next count of Eu. So I have made him young then William

    http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/NORM...#_Toc160529792

    Code:
    character = {
    	id = { type = 10 id = 1100378 }
    	name = "Ralph"
    	gender = male
    	dynasty = { type = 12 id =540 }
    	father = { type = 10 id = 6820 }
    	mother = { type = 10 id = 6821 }
    	country = C096
    	religion = catholic
    	culture = Norman
    	birthdate = { year = 1044 month = january day = 1 }
    	dna = "15500404127915"
    	attributes = {
    		martial = 4
    		diplomacy = 6
    		intrigue = 6
    		stewardship = 4
    		health = 3
    		fertility = 5
    	}
    	traits = {
    		merciful = yes
    		honest = yes
    		clubfooted = yes
    		martial_cleric = yes
    	}
    }
    character = {
    	id = { type = 10 id = 1100379 }
    	name = "Robert"
    	gender = male
    	dynasty = { type = 12 id =540 }
    	father = { type = 10 id = 6820 }
    	mother = { type = 10 id = 6821 }
    	country = C096
    	religion = catholic
    	culture = Norman
    	birthdate = { year = 1047 month = january day = 1 }
    	dna = "01500406010317"
    	attributes = {
    		martial = 5
    		diplomacy = 4
    		intrigue = 8
    		stewardship = 4
    		health = 6
    		fertility = 7
    	}
    	traits = {
    		proud = yes
    		reckless = yes
    		flamboyant_schemer = yes
    	}
    }
    character = {
    	id = { type = 10 id = 1100380 }
    	name = "Amburga"
    	gender = female
    	dynasty = { type = 12 id =540 }
    	father = { type = 10 id = 6820 }
    	mother = { type = 10 id = 6821 }
    	country = C096
    	religion = catholic
    	culture = Norman
    	birthdate = { year = 1051 month = january day = 1 }
    	dna = "15500404017901"
    	attributes = {
    		martial = 5
    		diplomacy = 5
    		intrigue = 6
    		stewardship = 5
    		health = 5
    		fertility = 7
    	}
    	traits = {
    		court_education = yes 
    	}
    }
    The site also lists a Armand de Mortain as son of Robert Hasting, but when you follow this Armand you will see that something can't be right there, since Armand is then listed as having sons who were born in 1020/1025.

  17. #757
    Captain Hasimir Fenring's Avatar
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    Al

    Before 9.2, some requests about Gallo dynasties:

    -all the members of the Penteur dynasty should be french since this dynasty is a branch of the "de Rennes" dynasty. Then, "Penteur" should be turn into "de Penthièvre". All characters names should also be translate: Eozen = Eudes, Alan = Alain etc...BTW, french form of Jaffrez is not Geoffrey but Geoffroi (rename Geoffroy Grenonat)

    -the Porhoet dynasty should be gallo and then renamed into "de Porhoët". According to wiki, the choice of children names reveals the french origin of the dynasty: Eudes, Gauzlin.

    -Kerne and Leon dyansties should remain breton.
    Audaces fortuna juvat

  18. #758
    Captain Hasimir Fenring's Avatar
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    Still in Hasting scenario:

    minor issue in county of Compostela: Pedro Froilaz, son of count Froila de Trastamara, don't share the same dynasty name.

    ==> give him his father's dynasty name: de Trastamara (id20059)
    Audaces fortuna juvat

  19. #759
    The Closer Supermoderator Veldmaarschalk's Avatar
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    Lets move on to another part of the Norman world, southern Italy.

    VI. County of Capua

    1. I would like to suggest to increase the base-income of Capua (province 997) with 1, so that it becomes 2. And to balance it, to reduce the base-income of Consenza (province 337) with 1, so that it becomes 1. Capua belonged to the more important cities of Southern Italy, together with Naples, Salerno and Benevento. Capua was also its own 'princepality'. Consenza wasn't (AFAIK) not important at all and a real backwater.

    2. The current count of Capua did have some more brothers

    http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/NEAP...#_Toc174874010

    Rainulf, whose wife is unknown

    Code:
    character = {
    	id = { type = 10 id = 190111152 }
    	name = "Rainulf"
    	gender = male
    	dynasty = { type = 12 id =676 }
    	father = { type = 10 id = 1150 }
    	country = c997
    	religion = catholic
    	culture = Norman
    	birthdate = { year = 1034 month = january day = 1 }
    	dna = "08041803043916"
    	attributes = {
    		martial = 7
    		diplomacy = 4
    		intrigue = 6
    		stewardship = 5
    		health = 5
    		fertility = 4
    	}
    	traits = {
    		chaste = yes
    		knowledged_tactician = yes
    	}
    }
    Rainulf had a son named Richard and one named Robert

    Code:
    character = {
    	id = { type = 10 id = 190111153 }
    	name = "Richard"
    	gender = male
    	dynasty = { type = 12 id =676 }
    	father = { type = 10 id = 190111152 }
    	country = c997
    	religion = catholic
    	culture = Norman
    	birthdate = { year = 1054 month = january day = 1 }
    	dna = "08040205040209"
    	attributes = {
    		martial = 5
    		diplomacy = 4
    		intrigue = 6
    		stewardship = 5
    		health = 5
    		fertility = 8
    	}
    	traits = {
    		martial_education = yes 	
    	}
    }
    character = {
    	id = { type = 10 id = 190111154 }
    	name = "Robert"
    	gender = male
    	dynasty = { type = 12 id =676 }
    	father = { type = 10 id = 190111152 }
    	country = c997
    	religion = catholic
    	culture = Norman
    	birthdate = { year = 1056 month = january day = 1 }
    	dna = "08000513040211"
    	attributes = {
    		martial = 3
    		diplomacy = 3
    		intrigue = 7
    		stewardship = 6
    		health = 5
    		fertility = 6
    	}
    	traits = {
    		ecclesiastical_education = yes	
    	}
    }
    The 2nd brother of count Richard was Robert or Roberto. The question is, should we already make him Italian culture and give him the dynastie-name 'di Lucera' or should we keep him as a Norman ?

    I have given him Italian culture but kept his family-name 'Drengot'
    Code:
    character = {
    	id = { type = 10 id = 190111155 }
    	name = "Roberto"
    	gender = c997
    	dynasty = { type = 12 id =676 }
    	father = { type = 10 id = 1150 }
    	country = c997
    	religion = catholic
    	culture = italian
    	birthdate = { year = 1040 month = january day = 1 }
    	dna = "01000516020205"
    	attributes = {
    		martial = 5
    		diplomacy = 4
    		intrigue = 7
    		stewardship = 4
    		health = 5
    		fertility = 6
    	}
    	traits = {
    		arbitrary = yes
    		martial_cleric = yes
    	}
    }
    Roberto was married to Gaitelgrima of Salerno, who already is in the game, move her to Capua

    Code:
    character = {
    	id = { type = 10 id = 1129 }
    	name = "Gaitelgrima"
    	gender = female
    	dynasty = { type = 12 id = 100336 }
    	father = { type = 10 id = 1116 }
    	mother = { type = 10 id = 1117 }
    	country = c997
    	religion = catholic
    	culture = italian
    	birthdate = { year = 1032 month = january day = 1 }
    	dna = "77135689384202"
    	attributes = {
    		martial = 5
    		diplomacy = 5
    		intrigue = 5
    		stewardship = 6
    		health = 4
    		fertility = 2
    	}
    	traits = {
    		trusting = yes
    		naive_wirepuller = yes
    	}
    }
    Roberto and Gaitelgrima had 2 sons, Guglielmo (or William if he keep them Norman) and Enrico (or Henry)

    Code:
    character = {
    	id = { type = 10 id = 190111156 }
    	name = "Guglielmo"
    	gender = male
    	dynasty = { type = 12 id =676 }
    	father = { type = 10 id = 190111155 }
     	mother = { type = 10 id = 1129 }
    	country = c997
    	religion = catholic
    	culture = italian
    	birthdate = { year = 1052 month = january day = 1 }
    	dna = "01000512050201"
    	attributes = {
    		martial = 7
    		diplomacy = 4
    		intrigue = 4
    		stewardship = 4
    		health = 4
    		fertility = 4
    	}
    	traits = {
    		martial_education = yes 
    	}
    }
    character = {
    	id = { type = 10 id = 190111157 }
    	name = "Enrico"
    	gender = male
    	dynasty = { type = 12 id =676 }
    	father = { type = 10 id = 190111155 }
    	mother = { type = 10 id = 1129 }
    	country = c997
    	religion = catholic
    	culture = italian
    	birthdate = { year = 1054 month = january day = 1 }
    	dna = "01090515020219"
    	attributes = {
    		martial = 3
    		diplomacy = 5
    		intrigue = 5
    		stewardship = 7
    		health = 6
    		fertility = 6
    	}
    	traits = {
    		court_education = yes 
    	}
    }
    The marriage between Roberto and Gaitelgrima

    Code:
    marrige = {
    		primary = { type = 10 id = 190111155  }
    		secondary = { type = 10 id = 1129 }
    		startdate = { year = 1052 month = january day = 1 }
    	}

  20. #760
    The Closer Supermoderator Veldmaarschalk's Avatar
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    VII. County of Lecce

    My final suggestion for today. I would like to propose to create the county of Lecce, which should stand for the 'county of Brindisi' (which is in the Lecce-province)

    Count of Lecce, should be Geoffrey (or Godfrey) de Conversano. Now according to Wikipedia he only became count of Brindisi in 1068, but that is close enough to 1066 to make it 'good enough'. Since it will allow people to play a Norman dynastie in Sicily that is not a 'de Hauteville' (though they are related to the 'de Hauteville')

    First the dynastie should be added

    Code:
    dynasty = {
    	id = { type = 12 id = 1534100098 }
    	name = "de Conversano"
    	province = { }
    }
    Then the father and mother of Godfrey, Emma de Hauteville and Odo de Conversano

    Code:
    character = {
    	id = { type = 10 id = 19111153 }
    	name = "Emma"
    	gender = female
    	dynasty = { type = 12 id =678 }
    	father = { type = 10 id = 1120 }
    	mother = { type = 10 id = 10008 }
    	country = APUL
    	religion = catholic
    	culture = Norman
    	birthdate = { year = 1019 month = january day = 1 }
    	deathdate = { year = 1060 month = january day = 1 }
    	dna = "01025338020001"
    	attributes = {
    		martial = 4
    		diplomacy = 6
    		intrigue = 6
    		stewardship = 5
    		health = 4
    		fertility = 4
    	}
    	traits = {
    		intricate_webweaver = yes
    	}
    }
    character = {
    	id = { type = 10 id = 19111154 }
    	name = "Odo"
    	gender = male
    	dynasty = { type = 12 id =1534100098 }
    	country = APUL
    	religion = catholic
    	culture = Norman
    	birthdate = { year = 1000 month = january day = 1 }
    	deathdate = { year = 1055 month = january day = 1 }
    	dna = "01040238020002"
    	attributes = {
    		martial = 4
    		diplomacy = 6
    		intrigue = 6
    		stewardship = 5
    		health = 4
    		fertility = 4
    	}
    	traits = {
    		intricate_webweaver = yes
    	}
    }
    Then Geoffrey or Godfrey

    Code:
    character = {
    	id = { type = 10 id = 19111155 }
    	name = "Godfrey"
    	gender = male
    	dynasty = { type = 12 id =1534100098 }
    	father = { type = 10 id = 19111154 }
    	mother = { type = 10 id = 19111153 }
    	country = c345
    	religion = catholic
    	culture = Norman
    	score = { gold = 25 prestige = 100 piety = 100 }
    	birthdate = { year = 1036 month = january day = 1 }
    	dna = "01000238020015"
    	attributes = {
    		martial = 6
    		diplomacy = 3
    		intrigue = 6
    		stewardship = 4
    		health = 5
    		fertility = 8
    	}
    	traits = {
    		knowledged_tactician = yes	}
    }
    And his children

    Code:
    character = {
    	id = { type = 10 id = 19111158 }
    	name = "William"
    	gender = male
    	dynasty = { type = 12 id =1534100098 }
    	father = { type = 10 id = 19111155 }
    	country = c345
    	religion = catholic
    	culture = Norman
    	birthdate = { year = 1055 month = january day = 1 }
    	dna = "01000238130001"
    	attributes = {
    		martial = 6
    		diplomacy = 5
    		intrigue = 3
    		stewardship = 5
    		health = 6
    		fertility = 8
    	}
    	traits = {
    		cruel = yes
    		martial_education = yes
    	}
    }
    character = {
    	id = { type = 10 id = 19111159 }
    	name = "Tancred"
    	gender = male
    	dynasty = { type = 12 id =1534100098 }
    	father = { type = 10 id = 19111155 }
    	country = c345
    	religion = catholic
    	culture = Norman
    	birthdate = { year = 1056 month = january day = 1 }
    	dna = "01040238130000"
    	attributes = {
    		martial = 4
    		diplomacy = 4
    		intrigue = 4
    		stewardship = 9
    		health = 6
    		fertility = 8
    	}
    	traits = {
    		forgiving = yes
    		court_education = yes
    	}
    }
    character = {
    	id = { type = 10 id = 19111160 }
    	name = "Altrude"
    	gender = female
    	dynasty = { type = 12 id =1534100098 }
    	father = { type = 10 id = 19111155 }
    	country = c345
    	religion = catholic
    	culture = Norman
    	birthdate = { year = 1057 month = january day = 1 }
    	dna = "01040238130008"
    	attributes = {
    		martial = 4
    		diplomacy = 4
    		intrigue = 8
    		stewardship = 4
    		health = 6
    		fertility = 8
    	}
    	traits = {
    		just = yes
    		indulgent = yes
    		naive_wirepuller = yes
    	}
    }
    character = {
    	id = { type = 10 id = 19111161 }
    	name = "Alexander"
    	gender = male
    	dynasty = { type = 12 id =1534100098 }
    	father = { type = 10 id = 19111155 }
    	country = c345
    	religion = catholic
    	culture = Norman
    	birthdate = { year = 1058 month = january day = 1 }
    	dna = "01060238010010"
    	attributes = {
    		martial = 3
    		diplomacy = 4
    		intrigue = 7
    		stewardship = 4
    		health = 6
    		fertility = 8
    	}
    	traits = {
    		ecclesiastical_education = yes
    	}
    }
    character = {
    	id = { type = 10 id = 19111162 }
    	name = "Sybilla"
    	gender = female
    	dynasty = { type = 12 id =1534100098 }
    	father = { type = 10 id = 19111155 }
    	country = c345
    	religion = catholic
    	culture = Norman
    	birthdate = { year = 1059 month = january day = 1 }
    	dna = "01060838010210"
    	attributes = {
    		martial = 5
    		diplomacy = 7
    		intrigue = 4
    		stewardship = 4
    		health = 6
    		fertility = 8
    	}
    	traits = {
    		ecclesiastical_education = yes
    	}
    }
    As his wife is listed a Sichelgaita, a daughter of Roger. To me that can only be Roger de Hauteville (count of Reggio and Messina) but Roger doesn't have a daughter with that name, so I am not sure who she is and if she really is the mother of the children of Godfrey.

    The ages of the children are based on their later history. The sons were notorious rebels against Roger Borsa and his youngest daughter Sybille married Robert 'Curthose' duke of Normandy in 1066.

    Adding this county would also mean of course modifying the

    1066_scenario.eug
    1066_scenario_titles.inc
    1066_scenario_counties.inc
    files

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