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Thread: Deus Vult Improvement Pack - Discussion

  1. #521
    Pure Evil Genius Jinnai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ulmont
    I confirm that I have seen the Sunni trait clear after a child finished an ecclesiastical education and became a Catholic.
    That's good. It solves some issues.
    Quote Originally Posted by ulmont
    IUnless the DVIP adds that event, I don't see it in the baseline code?
    That is still bad. While I think (though I can't be certain) heretic events were made to fire only for 16+ they might fire for child rulers. If so, they could fire for child-ruler counts and small duchies and they get removed.

    In either case, they still fire for adults and there are conversion events to non-Chrisitan religions which the vanilla game does not support heretic non-Chrisitans.
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  2. #522
    Crazy Crusader Kings Creator jordarkelf's Avatar
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    There is a special event that clears sunni or shiite from any non-muslim, just like there is an event that adds it to muslims without the trait.

    Heretics -- there's no special event that removes the heretic trait for converts. A general one cannot be written (at least, I see no way to), the child education event could be updated, but then you would lose any chance of raising a heretic by a heretic diocese bishop.

  3. #523
    Pure Evil Genius Jinnai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jordarkelf
    Heretics -- there's no special event that removes the heretic trait for converts. A general one cannot be written (at least, I see no way to), the child education event could be updated, but then you would lose any chance of raising a heretic by a heretic diocese bishop.
    Well generic one could be written for jewish, pagan and muslim courtiers with heretic trait to remove it.
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  4. #524
    Captain Hasimir Fenring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drachenfire
    Yes, me too. Every time I encounter the letter c followed by an h in Breton, there is an apostrophy between them. So I think Guyomarc'h is the most correct.

    So, the Count of Léon should be Guyomarc'h of the dynasty Léon yes? (Taking the dynasty name from his primary title yes?)
    yep, Guyomarc'h of Léon (or Guyomarc'h Leon in the DVIP), born in 1035. I think we could give him a low intringue since he was murdered in 1103.
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  5. #525
    Crazy Crusader Kings Creator jordarkelf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinnai
    Well generic one could be written for jewish, pagan and muslim courtiers with heretic trait to remove it.
    Maybe I missed something here. What exactly is the problem with non-christian heretics?

  6. #526
    Crazy Crusader Kings Creator jordarkelf's Avatar
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    Next version will be #9... still hope to get it out this weakend. Don't yell at me if I miss the date though... I'm really into my Oblivion game and it's often suddenly hours later than I thought


    I need your thoughts on an issue: I can use the trick discovered on this forum to give several countries (such as Jerusalem) a succession law that allows female inheritance, but this will cause an error message each time the scenario (or one of its save games) is loaded for each realm with an "invalid" law. The warning can be dismissed without issues, but occurs each time.

    There's basically three options here:
    1) Add the female succession, and just put in a warning about this error in the readme
    2) Do not include female succession at all, allowing the game to load without errors
    3) As #2, but provide changed country files in the DVIP so people can choose to use these files if they want female succession

  7. #527
    Field Marshal ulmont's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jordarkelf
    Maybe I missed something here. What exactly is the problem with non-christian heretics?
    I think the problem isn't with non-christian heretics per se, but that heretic Christians who convert to another religion should have the heretic flag cleared. This does beg the question: Why not have your religion-changing events clear the heretic flag?

  8. #528
    Crazy Crusader Kings Creator jordarkelf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ulmont
    I think the problem isn't with non-christian heretics per se, but that heretic Christians who convert to another religion should have the heretic flag cleared. This does beg the question: Why not have your religion-changing events clear the heretic flag?
    Ah, understood. That is something I can look into -- should not be too difficult to do. To make sure I understand it right:
    A catholic heretic who becomes orthodox (or something else) should have his heretic trait cleared in addition to his religion change?

    I can probably do this for the vassal conversion event, but I'd need to look into the child ecclesiastical education event. I don't want to clear the heretic trait for these students if the ruler or diocese bishop is heretic.

  9. #529
    Ordnung muß sein Supermoderator Veldmaarschalk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hasimir Fenring
    In fact, Guyomarch is purely a breton name. But I found 3 forms of Guyomarch:

    +Guyomarch (of course)
    +Guyomarc'h
    +Guyomark

    Personnaly I prefer the second one since it sounds more "brythonic" to me.
    I also can find these versions, here

    Guiomarc'h M (Redon has this as [Guihomarc])
    Guiomarch 1397
    Guyomarch 1479

  10. #530
    Pure Evil Genius Jinnai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jordarkelf
    Maybe I missed something here. What exactly is the problem with non-christian heretics?
    The game does not support them just like it doesn't support Sunni Catholics.
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  11. #531
    Buckler of Wales Drachenfire's Avatar
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    I recognize the Breton naming list as the one I compiled and offered in the more names list, and I based it off what I found on the Breton language learning forums of Kervarker.

    Guimarc'h is included... but without the apostrophy. I am sure Jord can edit that in for the generic names as well.

    Scottish/Irish Gaelic:

    What is the position on Scottish Gaelic in the scenario? I see most of Scotland is in standardized English names... including for generic naming list. Should this be looked at? I know we do not have a Scottish advocate in a long while. But as I know we have had a strong Irish and Scottish advocates in the past and do not see their corrections added here. Should we explore this?


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  12. #532
    Crazy Crusader Kings Creator jordarkelf's Avatar
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    Guimarc'h -- will get the apostrophe in the name list.

    Scots Gaels -- there was no clear consensus on the Scots in the old IP threads. There were a couple of suggestions:
    A) Let scottish represent a merged culture: change the scottish name list so it includes both gaelic ('Scotis') and scots ('Inglis') names. Obvious disadvantage is that there will be no logic to names at all this way.
    B) Represent gaelic by the irish tag (renamed to 'gaelic'), and add Scots gaelic names to the irish list. Apparently Scots and Irish gaelic were much closer in the CK timeframe, so this could very well be done as long as you don't mind a few Scots names in Ireland, and Irish names in scotland. Scottish remains the lowlander culture.
    C) Represent lowlander Scots by the saxon tag, and change scottish to a highlander (gaelic) culture only. Scots is after all nothing less than a further development of anglosaxon (old english), albeit the northern variant.

    Personally I strongly favour C, but I was just about the only one...

  13. #533
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    i favor C also.

    To expand upon my last point, traits still affect loyalty and there is no way to remove heretic from those groups nor is there any events supporting heretics in those groups.
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  14. #534
    Buckler of Wales Drachenfire's Avatar
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    *doh! We forgot our V-8 juice!*

    Look at the County of Leon! A Guimarc'h Leon, b. 1039, is already in place and heir of Morvan Leon! So all that is needed is to put to death Morvan in favor of his son Guimarc'h. All that is needed prehaps is the circumflex over the è in Lèon.

    Though I do understand the argument for lowland Scots being represented by Anglo-Saxon... I lean towards option B. But I could be moved on the issue. Lemme do research over the next few days and get some books out of the library. It simply would seem ... very odd to have Anglo-Saxon kings of Scotland IMO, more odd then option B.


    Edit: We have Euzon Penteur (Eudes, Count of Penthièvre) as Count of Penthièvre, however he was killed by Konan II back in 1062. The count of Penthièvre is Euzon's son Jefrez Penteur (he is alive in the county). This needs to be corrected.

    Edit 2: Alan Penteur (Alan the Red), son of Eudes, Count of Penthièvre and younger brother of Jefrez Count of Penthièvre, was William of Normandy's Breton commander at the battle of Hastings, and should be in Williams court. He was created first earl of Richmond following the Harrowing of the North (When the Saxon Earls of Northumbria and Merica, as well as Eric the Wild and their ally Bleddyn ap Cynfyn of Gwynedd allied against William). His brother Brient should also be placed in Willaim's court. He was briefly made Count of Cornwall (maybe we should make him so?) but rebelled against William in 1075. Prehaps Alan should be made a friend with William?

    Also: Brient is listed as the fourth son of Eudas. So this needs correction too.

    If it is possible following the eventual rebellion of Northumbria he should be made count of York (representing Richmond).
    Last edited by Drachenfire; 16-02-2008 at 13:22.


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  15. #535
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drachenfire
    *doh! We forgot our V-8 juice!*

    Look at the County of Leon! A Guimarc'h Leon, b. 1039, is already in place and heir of Morvan Leon! So all that is needed is to put to death Morvan in favor of his son Guimarc'h. All that is needed prehaps is the circumflex over the è in Lèon.

    Though I do understand the argument for lowland Scots being represented by Anglo-Saxon... I lean towards option B. But I could be moved on the issue. Lemme do research over the next few days and get some books out of the library. It simply would seem ... very odd to have Anglo-Saxon kings of Scotland IMO, more odd then option B.


    Edit: We have Euzon Penteur (Eudes, Count of Penthièvre) as Count of Penthièvre, however he was killed by Konan II back in 1062. The count of Penthièvre is Euzon's son Jefrez Penteur (he is alive in the county). This needs to be corrected.

    Edit 2: Alan Penteur (Alan the Red), son of Eudes, Count of Penthièvre and younger brother of Jefrez Count of Penthièvre, was William of Normandy's Breton commander at the battle of Hastings, and should be in Williams court. He was created first earl of Richmond following the Harrowing of the North (When the Saxon Earls of Northumbria and Merica, as well as Eric the Wild and their ally Bleddyn ap Cynfyn of Gwynedd allied against William). His brother Brient should also be placed in Willaim's court. He was briefly made Count of Cornwall (maybe we should make him so?) but rebelled against William in 1075. Prehaps Alan should be made a friend with William?

    Also: Brient is listed as the fourth son of Eudas. So this needs correction too.

    If it is possible following the eventual rebellion of Northumbria he should be made count of York (representing Richmond).

    Concerning Eudes/Eozen Penteur, I must disagree. According to my book, he died in 1079. I think we should also reduce Alan the Red and Jaffrez's fertility since they died heirless.
    Otherwise, I also found that the Gael dynasty should not be Norman but Breton.
    Last edited by Hasimir Fenring; 17-02-2008 at 01:50.
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  16. #536
    Buckler of Wales Drachenfire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hasimir Fenring
    Concerning Eudes/Eozen Penteur, I must disagree. According to my book, he died in 1079. I think we should also reduce Alan the Red and Jaffrez's fertility since they dies heirless.
    Otherwise, I also found that the Gael dynasty should not be Norman but Breton.
    I stand corrected. Once Konan II was poisioned to death in 1066 Eozen must have been released from his imprisionment.

    Can you list the name of your book? Including author and publisher? Maybe I can get an internet link to it via Oxford university or other universities online resources. So far I have found very little information on Brittany during the time we are looking for.
    Last edited by Drachenfire; 16-02-2008 at 20:47.


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  17. #537
    Captain Hasimir Fenring's Avatar
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    Here it is :

    La Bretagne féodale XIe-XIIIe siècle by André Chédeville and Noël-Yves Tonnerre, Ouest-France edition - 1987
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  18. #538
    Field Marshal ulmont's Avatar
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    Self-Friendships / Self-Rivalries

    We've noticed in our MP game that a rather large number of characters are friends or rivals with themselves (not sure exactly which events caused that).

    If you don't already have events to detect self-rivalry and self-friendship and clear it, it's probably worth adding two in.

  19. #539
    Crazy Crusader Kings Creator jordarkelf's Avatar
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    I don't know how to check for that... there is no "self" target or anything.
    I might be able to do it for rulers though. I'll see if I can get it to work for them at least.

  20. #540
    Pure Evil Genius Jinnai's Avatar
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    Event 5598 - mongol invasion events - needs to be removed. It may be responsible for some uber characters in DV. It's a legacy event from before the way children's stats were developed - and the way bastards stats were created (note this will be removed in my Horde & Timurid Mod which i'm making compatable with more kingdoms).
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