Indeed, holding ground has become very important now. "Not one step backward" and all that. It's almost as if Stalin himself has reached out to this alternate world from the real, historical one 
-
We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Why did they think you would land in Gibraltar, it wouldn't bring you any tactical advantage? That was stupid to think if they did. About aircraft yes i know that situation war started booth sides attacked at the same time and killed each other lol.
presumably if myth could land in gibraltar he could smash through spain and france and take germany from behind. possibly. or just cut north africa off (i cant remember who owns what in africa)
It's big friendly Equatorial Africa, no reason to cut it off.
In any, case Discomb would have to divert significant forces to crush that invasion and by the time they get back it might be over. Also, by opening Giblartar, theoreticaly Myth could invade and anex UK, which is an ally of Germany.
Btw, did you add a beach at Gibraltar? Because at least in Vanilla it doesn't have one.
He probably meant to land close to it, because the beach would be out in the Atlantic (that's where port is)
it doesnt have a useable beach in real life. he may not have had paratroops, who knows. but the rest of spain may be ripe for the picking.
Well, you know it's a good deception plan if people are debating its effectiveness as a real plan of action even after knowing it was just a deception plan Delex has it mostly right though, even if he puts it a tad bluntly
Delex: Discomb believed my Gibraltar distraction because in one previous game (where I was the US, he was the SU and another friend was Germany, those two allied against me) I used Gibraltar as my beachhead in Europe (since we had the same set up as this game, so it belonged to Equatorial Africa). Of course, the strategic situation was much different in that game than this one. And yeah, our air forces rather killed each other off. We each still had some planes left, but they were mostly hiding
To be honest, I'm surprised Gibraltar worked, and here's why: strategically, it doesn't make sense. Sure, it made sense in that other game where I was the USA. I needed access to Europe and gaining Gibraltar gave me access to the Med and thus the entirety of southern Europe. But as the SU, I already have that access, on a thousand mile long front between the Baltic Sea and the Black Sea. Until Discomb took it off me, I had Istanbul and could thus send my Black Sea fleet out into the Med and thus have access to all of southern Europe. I didn't need to go all the way to Gibraltar to hit Discomb in the rear: I could have landed in Greece, Italy, France or Spain if I had wanted to. In the north, I could have landed in Denmark, Germany or Poland from Riga. In the far north, I could have landed in Norway from Arkhangelsk. Assuming I had a naval transport arm worth speaking off, I already had access to most of Europe for flanking maneuvers on that scale.
Another reason why it doesn't make sense is because the war would be won or lost in the east. Any diversion to a landing somewhere is just that, a diversion. For Discomb, but also for me, and finally for no real purpose. Granted, I might be able to disguise my numbers and get Discomb to send a lopsided amount of troops to deal with the situation, but even then it probably wouldn't be much and probably come from different parts of Europe first and the real front second. Any loss for me in such an adventure might well prove permanent, with entire divisions or corps wiped out against the sea. That would both look bad, and probably be bad given the quality of my army is lower than that of Discomb's (even if it is better than that of his brother's, and bigger besides). Any loss for Discomb would be temporary, just another retreat deeper into Europe, and while he would also lose territory he had so much that he could safely lose entire countries without becoming unduly alarmed about his industrial situation or whatnot.
Also, Gibraltar doesn't have a beach.
BritishImperial: I did actually have paratroopers, but I completely forgot about them and never used them. If I had, it would have certainly been to drop onto Warsaw. It's most probably a good thing that I didn't use them there. I may have also used them instead to help shore up Bielsk, which would certainly have taken a bit of strain, however minute, off the 3rd Belarussian Front. Oh well, they in actuality sat out the war.o
trekaddict: Irrelevant. Ok, actually, I had my Black Sea fleet stuck in the Bosporus preventing the Germans from crossing it. My Baltic Sea fleet was hiding in Leningrad. The Germans had their fleet in the Mediterranean I think, and the British fleet (probably truncated by the removal of all level 1 ships) probably at Dover or some place. But remember, they'd never know a landing was happening until too late since they're just humans and not omniscient AI
I'll write an update for tomorrow, guys!
Delex has it mostly right though, even if he puts it a tad bluntly Delex: Discomb believed my Gibraltar distraction because in one previous game (where I was the US, he was the SU and another friend was Germany, those two allied against me) I used Gibraltar as my beachhead in Europe (since we had the same set up as this game, so it belonged to Equatorial Africa). Of course, the strategic situation was much different in that game than this one. And yeah, our air forces rather killed each other off. We each still had some planes left, but they were mostly hiding
To be honest, I'm surprised Gibraltar worked, and here's why: strategically, it doesn't make sense. Sure, it made sense in that other game where I was the USA. I needed access to Europe and gaining Gibraltar gave me access to the Med and thus the entirety of southern Europe. But as the SU, I already have that access, on a thousand mile long front between the Baltic Sea and the Black Sea. Until Discomb took it off me, I had Istanbul and could thus send my Black Sea fleet out into the Med and thus have access to all of southern Europe. I didn't need to go all the way to Gibraltar to hit Discomb in the rear: I could have landed in Greece, Italy, France or Spain if I had wanted to. In the north, I could have landed in Denmark, Germany or Poland from Riga. In the far north, I could have landed in Norway from Arkhangelsk. Assuming I had a naval transport arm worth speaking off, I already had access to most of Europe for flanking maneuvers on that scale.
Another reason why it doesn't make sense is because the war would be won or lost in the east. Any diversion to a landing somewhere is just that, a diversion. For Discomb, but also for me, and finally for no real purpose. Granted, I might be able to disguise my numbers and get Discomb to send a lopsided amount of troops to deal with the situation, but even then it probably wouldn't be much and probably come from different parts of Europe first and the real front second. Any loss for me in such an adventure might well prove permanent, with entire divisions or corps wiped out against the sea. That would both look bad, and probably be bad given the quality of my army is lower than that of Discomb's (even if it is better than that of his brother's, and bigger besides). Any loss for Discomb would be temporary, just another retreat deeper into Europe, and while he would also lose territory he had so much that he could safely lose entire countries without becoming unduly alarmed about his industrial situation or whatnot.
Also, Gibraltar doesn't have a beach.
BritishImperial: I did actually have paratroopers, but I completely forgot about them and never used them. If I had, it would have certainly been to drop onto Warsaw. It's most probably a good thing that I didn't use them there. I may have also used them instead to help shore up Bielsk, which would certainly have taken a bit of strain, however minute, off the 3rd Belarussian Front. Oh well, they in actuality sat out the war.
otrekaddict: Irrelevant.
Ok, actually, I had my Black Sea fleet stuck in the Bosporus preventing the Germans from crossing it. My Baltic Sea fleet was hiding in Leningrad. The Germans had their fleet in the Mediterranean I think, and the British fleet (probably truncated by the removal of all level 1 ships) probably at Dover or some place. But remember, they'd never know a landing was happening until too late since they're just humans and not omniscient AI I'll write an update for tomorrow, guys!
if you still poses turkey then try to build there naval base and immediately place there fresh units and naval transports lol
Deus Eversor: I do still possess Turkey, as my Black Sea Fleet is basically camping in the Bosporus to prevent the Germans from crossing (and indeed, I think the Germans left Istanbul to go fight in Ukraine or something). But why would I want to do something like that?
Update coming up!
Update coming up!
13 kilometers south of Grodno
May 24, 1942
Timoshenko strode back and forth in the cramped room that held his operations table and, of course, his myriad of maps. He was running on adrenalin now. He had been getting less than four hours of sleep for the past week and the war was only entering its most critical phase now. He was busy coordinating the Baltic and Belarussian Fronts as tightly as he could, to orchestrate a victory out of adversity and enemy armor. He could only imagine how Vasilevskij was feeling in Moscow; everything was riding on the battles being fought in Belarus, yet unable to influence them in any way whatsoever, to actually be able to sleep. Or not sleep, given the depth of worry that Vasilevskij had to suffer. Timoshenko shook his head, again he was glad that he was merely a Front commander and coordinator, rather than a strategist. The job was much simpler, and gave less time for critical introspection. And, of course, the stakes were not as high either.
Timoshenko ceased his pacing to turn to his maps. He could feel his hands shaking and dare not pick up his glass of water for fear of spilling it. The stakes were not as high for him as for Vasilevskij, but he too could feel a mass of pressure on his shoulders. If he let the Germans escape the encirclement, he could certainly count his career over and ending in some backwater post in the frozen far north. Fortunately, despite a poor start to the 22nd, it seemed that he need not worry. That day, the Germans overran Kowel. For several hours the situation looked incredibly grim. The 3rd Belarussian Front’s supplies were being routed only through Bielsk, but the Germans were moving south from Bialystok to occupy it. It seemed that the 3rd Belarussian might actually be fully encircled at last, and then probably destroyed. However, even as these worries were coming to light the situation was changing. The 2nd Belarussian Front was still applying pressure on Baranowicze and seemed likely to overrun it soon. The German defense had changed units and commanders at least twice, possible three times, in as many days.
The offensive battle for Baranowicze continuing, and the situation in Belarus at 1300 hours, May 22nd.
By the evening of the 22nd, the road at Rowne had been opened. The 3rd Belarussian was in no danger of encirclement. At the same time, the Germans were wasting their efforts, their strength and, most importantly, their time attacking the Soviet outpost at Lomza. Lomza was a salient, a small one at that, and nothing more. Given the central importance of Suwalki as a potential supply artery to the Germans at Bialystok, Timoshenko could not understand why the German forces at Torun were not attacking that instead. It was probably as heavily guarded, only six divisions or so, and much more important. Timoshenko was also bewildered by the Germans’ actions in central Poland, or rather their inaction. Thirty Anglo-German divisions stood at Lublin, and had attacked Brest-Litovsk earlier in the week. It had looked dangerous, but not fatal even if they won. Timoshenko why they had not instead attacked Bielsk as that was, again, a much more important region than Brest-Litovsk as it was a potential supply line for the German pocket. Von Kleist’s panzers, without much oil, could certainly not move nearly as quickly as Rommel’s, which were supplied directly from Berlin.
The battle for Lomza and the evolving situation in Belarus at 1800 hours, May 22nd.
The 23rd proved to be as eventful as the 22nd. Baranowicze fell to the 2nd Belarussian Front. The German pocket was split into two, with nine divisions trapped at Luniniec and another thirty at Bialystok. There were also twelve or so divisions withdrawing from Baranowicze toward Slonim. The German pocket was collapsing. This clear danger to its integrity seemed to have prompted the Germans to action again as they began assaulting Suwalki again in a desperate attempt to regain a line of supply. Unfortunately for them, by the time they began their assault Berzarin’s 1st Baltic Front had reached its environs and was putting up a fight. If they had begun their assault the previous day they would have routed Berzarin’s vanguard without much difficulty and would have been that much closer to capturing the town. The two mobile corps at Lomza had been defeated and were withdrawing toward Suwalki as well. The Germans at Kowel, nine divisions, began advancing toward Pinsk in an attempt to open a supply line through to Bialystok as well, via Slonim. Unfortunately for them, Slonim lay undefended. The 30 Anglo-German divisions at Lublin still stood idly as well, doing nothing but watch the drama unfold across the River Bug. Timoshenko also wondered by the Germans at Torun were not diverting themselves toward Suwalki, now that Lomza was as good as conquered.
Yet another battle for Suwalki and the transforming situation in Belarus at 2300 hours May 23rd.
Timoshenko balled his hands into hard fists, his nails biting into the skin of his palms, in an attempt to halt their shaking. The stress was eating into him, as was the lack of sleep and the reams of concentration he was enduring. He was suspicious of the Germans, they were doing far too little to save their spearheads. How large was their army, that they could afford to so easily throw away sixty mobile divisions? Timoshenko shook his head, perhaps he needed to sleep. Perhaps he was right to be suspicious. He was standing because of adrenalin, the rush of battle and campaign was being spiked by the heady feelings of triumph.
May 24, 1942
Timoshenko strode back and forth in the cramped room that held his operations table and, of course, his myriad of maps. He was running on adrenalin now. He had been getting less than four hours of sleep for the past week and the war was only entering its most critical phase now. He was busy coordinating the Baltic and Belarussian Fronts as tightly as he could, to orchestrate a victory out of adversity and enemy armor. He could only imagine how Vasilevskij was feeling in Moscow; everything was riding on the battles being fought in Belarus, yet unable to influence them in any way whatsoever, to actually be able to sleep. Or not sleep, given the depth of worry that Vasilevskij had to suffer. Timoshenko shook his head, again he was glad that he was merely a Front commander and coordinator, rather than a strategist. The job was much simpler, and gave less time for critical introspection. And, of course, the stakes were not as high either.
Timoshenko ceased his pacing to turn to his maps. He could feel his hands shaking and dare not pick up his glass of water for fear of spilling it. The stakes were not as high for him as for Vasilevskij, but he too could feel a mass of pressure on his shoulders. If he let the Germans escape the encirclement, he could certainly count his career over and ending in some backwater post in the frozen far north. Fortunately, despite a poor start to the 22nd, it seemed that he need not worry. That day, the Germans overran Kowel. For several hours the situation looked incredibly grim. The 3rd Belarussian Front’s supplies were being routed only through Bielsk, but the Germans were moving south from Bialystok to occupy it. It seemed that the 3rd Belarussian might actually be fully encircled at last, and then probably destroyed. However, even as these worries were coming to light the situation was changing. The 2nd Belarussian Front was still applying pressure on Baranowicze and seemed likely to overrun it soon. The German defense had changed units and commanders at least twice, possible three times, in as many days.
The offensive battle for Baranowicze continuing, and the situation in Belarus at 1300 hours, May 22nd.
By the evening of the 22nd, the road at Rowne had been opened. The 3rd Belarussian was in no danger of encirclement. At the same time, the Germans were wasting their efforts, their strength and, most importantly, their time attacking the Soviet outpost at Lomza. Lomza was a salient, a small one at that, and nothing more. Given the central importance of Suwalki as a potential supply artery to the Germans at Bialystok, Timoshenko could not understand why the German forces at Torun were not attacking that instead. It was probably as heavily guarded, only six divisions or so, and much more important. Timoshenko was also bewildered by the Germans’ actions in central Poland, or rather their inaction. Thirty Anglo-German divisions stood at Lublin, and had attacked Brest-Litovsk earlier in the week. It had looked dangerous, but not fatal even if they won. Timoshenko why they had not instead attacked Bielsk as that was, again, a much more important region than Brest-Litovsk as it was a potential supply line for the German pocket. Von Kleist’s panzers, without much oil, could certainly not move nearly as quickly as Rommel’s, which were supplied directly from Berlin.
The battle for Lomza and the evolving situation in Belarus at 1800 hours, May 22nd.
The 23rd proved to be as eventful as the 22nd. Baranowicze fell to the 2nd Belarussian Front. The German pocket was split into two, with nine divisions trapped at Luniniec and another thirty at Bialystok. There were also twelve or so divisions withdrawing from Baranowicze toward Slonim. The German pocket was collapsing. This clear danger to its integrity seemed to have prompted the Germans to action again as they began assaulting Suwalki again in a desperate attempt to regain a line of supply. Unfortunately for them, by the time they began their assault Berzarin’s 1st Baltic Front had reached its environs and was putting up a fight. If they had begun their assault the previous day they would have routed Berzarin’s vanguard without much difficulty and would have been that much closer to capturing the town. The two mobile corps at Lomza had been defeated and were withdrawing toward Suwalki as well. The Germans at Kowel, nine divisions, began advancing toward Pinsk in an attempt to open a supply line through to Bialystok as well, via Slonim. Unfortunately for them, Slonim lay undefended. The 30 Anglo-German divisions at Lublin still stood idly as well, doing nothing but watch the drama unfold across the River Bug. Timoshenko also wondered by the Germans at Torun were not diverting themselves toward Suwalki, now that Lomza was as good as conquered.
Yet another battle for Suwalki and the transforming situation in Belarus at 2300 hours May 23rd.
Timoshenko balled his hands into hard fists, his nails biting into the skin of his palms, in an attempt to halt their shaking. The stress was eating into him, as was the lack of sleep and the reams of concentration he was enduring. He was suspicious of the Germans, they were doing far too little to save their spearheads. How large was their army, that they could afford to so easily throw away sixty mobile divisions? Timoshenko shook his head, perhaps he needed to sleep. Perhaps he was right to be suspicious. He was standing because of adrenalin, the rush of battle and campaign was being spiked by the heady feelings of triumph.
either Discomb went to the toilet at that point, he's gone mad through lack of sleep and the strain of fighting you, or he's got a plan. 30 transport squadrons sailing to attack leningrad maybe?
i think now to crumble encircled units i think i would attack them as many times as possible
1) I don't know if you guys noticed, but we had been gaming for a couple weeks straight at that point, and we were ALL very very tired. I couldn't be assed to micriomanage my armies at all.
2) In Gibraltar, it's better to leave a couple divisions and surprise his diversion, rather than chase his cavalry all around spain and france.
2) In Gibraltar, it's better to leave a couple divisions and surprise his diversion, rather than chase his cavalry all around spain and france.
BritishImperial: It could be any of the above, knowing Discomb
Deus Eversor: That's a part of the plan, yes
Discomb: Likely excuses
I'll try to have an update for tomorrow!
Deus Eversor: That's a part of the plan, yes
Discomb: Likely excuses
I'll try to have an update for tomorrow!
Is there a little of Myth written into the character of Timoshenko, I wonder? Seems you both have spearheads to worry over. Yours might collapse just as well as his, perhaps...yet another telling battle over very familiar ground.
Seems you both have spearheads to worry over. Yours might collapse just as well as his, perhaps...yet another telling battle over very familiar ground.
coz1: Yeah, there is a bit of me in Timoshenko. Also, in Vasilevskij. Operations are easier, certainly, but strategy is more rewarding. I like both. And yeah, there's still every chance that the Germans will be able to break out.
Unfortunately, I worked a bit too hard on my dissertation yesterday so I didn't feel like writing an update for today. I'll do it for tomorrow!
Unfortunately, I worked a bit too hard on my dissertation yesterday so I didn't feel like writing an update for today. I'll do it for tomorrow!
Yes I had similar situation where I was USSR and was in a pretty stalemate war whit Germany and Italy (Not to mention that I had another front in Caucasus). We fought like half the year for the city Smolensk (Only once fallen to the Germans, but I was not yet as experienced at that time as I am now). Well I was kinda running low on manpower (Had some 400 left) and decided to attack Copenhagen, with the army which was protecting Finland (Per 3 divisions on coast). I secured it, pulled in troops from Brazil (The AI allied me, is possible) and Finland (I had carriers and Germany's fleet was not in the Baltic sea), so some 60 divisions kicked ass down Germany and Germany player pretty soon surrendered (In my AAR I have proposed this as a possible tactic for USSR to counterattack, but people wondering if this is a joke lol).