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Thread: What if the Pope had 200,000 men? -- a Papal States EU3 1.3 aar

  1. #101
    academic outlaw Moderator safferli's Avatar
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    Persia attacked the Mamluks and gained lots of territory in that war. They also gained from Najd, who signed a separate peace with Persia. What's the point of being in our alliance, declaring war on your own and then not waiting for us to sort things out, he Najd?





    Well, we make peace with Oman, vassalising them.





    Then a white peace with Persia is signed, as we have no better idea what to do to them.





    Venice meanwhile refuses to become incorporated into the Vatican Empire. Drat, and we had a "maybe" chance even! But take a look at that Burgundy army. It's large, but only at 50% strength...


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  2. #102
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  3. #103
    It's only obvious that you should declare yourself the Roman Emperor. Surely you could fabricate a claim to the whole of the western empire? I mean it's not like the Donation of Constantine was actually legitimate..
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  4. #104
    academic outlaw Moderator safferli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pikeman85
    It's only obvious that you should declare yourself the Roman Emperor. Surely you could fabricate a claim to the whole of the western empire? I mean it's not like the Donation of Constantine was actually legitimate..
    Ah, but we are, of course, above such political matters. Only interested in the spiritual well-being of our subjects...

    Naturally, salvation can only come in the hands of the one true Church.

    No update today, but I'll post this little tidbit for your viewing pleasure:

    Chief Papal Archiver Corbett had meticulously compiled records of all Burgundian political movements since the dawn of time. At many meetings he had informed the Pope that Burgundy had failed to come to our help in the First Papal-French war. The world had since forgotten this, but the Papal Archiver never forgets. Using a claim on a province has pretense for war, Corbett was allowed to deliver the declaration of war to the Burgundian king in 1561.


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  5. #105
    General chefportnen's Avatar
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    I can see the look on the Burgundian king right now...:

    "Sire, the Pope has declared war on us!"

    "Hmm, too bad for him! He must know that resistance is futile!"

  6. #106
    academic outlaw Moderator safferli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chefportnen
    I can see the look on the Burgundian king right now...:

    "Sire, the Pope has declared war on us!"

    "Hmm, too bad for him! He must know that resistance is futile!"
    We'll see about that!

    Work has kept me busy, but the Burgundian War will be dealt with tomorrow. And probably a day or two more, even...
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  7. #107
    I'm honoured to be able to give the swine notice of their imminent termination. Soon they shall know fear! They've no alliance to weasel out of, this time...
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  8. #108
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    nice
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  9. #109
    academic outlaw Moderator safferli's Avatar
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    Chapter 23: The Burgundy War: Resistance is Futile


    The declaration of war had been given to the Burgundian king. Immediately, Papal troops that had amassed along the borders moved into Burgundian territory.





    According to the Leo X Doctrine, battles would only be fought with superiority in at least three of the four battle-winning factors: numbers, technology, officers and terrain. Papal officers were battle-hardened veterans of the various Papal-French wars and had additional experience in fighting muslim and pagan armies. The Pope was confident his officers would at least be on par with the lucky Burgundian corps. Papal troops had a disadvantage in numbers, but only on paper. The Burgundian king had more regiments, but these were only at half-strength, depleted from the constant wars. Additionally, the Papal Army had far more cavalry regiments than the Burgundian king could even dream of. With the upgrading of the cavalry units to Latin Caracolle standard, the cavalry units were far superior to the Burgundian counterparts. Additionally, morale was high from being able to fight for the Pope. Terrain was the only critical aspect of this war. All troop movements had to go via the south of Burgundy, multiple attacks were not possible. Naval movement to the rich Dutch provinces needed time and an attrition-prone Atlantic passage. But once the ships were on the Dutch coast, military access with Great Britain meant that friendly harbours were present. Once the Papal troops had secured the southern (French) part of Burgundy, they were free to roam the rich provinces. Rich provinces also meant little attrition. Three and a half of the four aspects of war were satisfied and the war went well.

    After winning the battle of Bourgogne, the armies were spread to follow the survivors and secure the southern holdings. Burgundian armies on Papal soil were located and a 2-to-1 cavalry detachment was sent to drive the Burgundians off.





    You lose some battles...





    And you win some battles. Devastatingly so!





    Our teleporting conquistador Ovidio Chiogga was sent to drive the Burgundian king Charles III and his army off Papal land. Even though Charles III has nine regiments more than Chiogga, we have a numerical advantage.





    Chiogga loses that battle, that's what happens if you let conquistadors do a general's job! He inflicted very high casualties, though. If we "lose" 3 or 4 more of battle like this one, we've won the war!





    Sea battles are not noteworthy. Burgundy has only a few single-ship flotillas in the Mediterranean to blockade our ports. Our home fleets crushes them easily, even without admirals.





    A new general is promoted from the prestigious Latsina family. He is the cream of the new Papal officer stock!





    And he is sent immediately to fight the Burgundian king in Dauphiné. The last remaining foreign army on Papal soil.





    Will Latsina win? His morale is rather low -- the troops do not trust him yet. Find out tomorrow, in the next update!
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  10. #110
    General chefportnen's Avatar
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    Oh he'll win. With a roll of 8 and 4 shock, it's kinda hard not to win, especially considering the new Latin Caracolles.

  11. #111
    academic outlaw Moderator safferli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chefportnen
    Oh he'll win. With a roll of 8 and 4 shock, it's kinda hard not to win, especially considering the new Latin Caracolles.
    That's what I call "Tempting Fate"! (See this quotation page, scroll down to "SIX MEETINGS BEFORE LUNCH")
    Last edited by safferli; 02-11-2007 at 10:36.
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  12. #112
    academic outlaw Moderator safferli's Avatar
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    Chapter 24: Tempting Fate


    Tempting fate, as I said. Latsina loses the battle of Dauphiné.





    We are not overly concerned. Burgundian losses were devastating, and we can just send in the next army to fight Charles III. Which we do. Iulius Panaro is sent to fight the Burgundian king. The same general that lead the initial advance and first battle of this war.





    The war is not only fought in Europe. In North America, we lose control over the province of Connecticut to the Burgundian troops. A minor set-back. We are besieging Narraganset and additional troops are available to combat the small Burgundian colonial army.





    But we win in our Brazilian colonies. The Burgundian armies are already wiped out and we proceed to gain the last remaining foreign colonies in Brazil without opposition.





    Problems in Valenciennes. Our army is losing the battle and additional reinforcements from Burgundy are already on their way! Geography is coming to Burgundy's aid, as we cannot move our armies as freely as we would like. To get to the northern provinces, we need to pass through all of the southern provinces -- which takes time and attrition.





    Santo Amaro, the last province in Brazil falls. It even has a CoT! Yummy.





    Then, disaster strikes. Tempting fate... Pius III dies and a new pope is elected. After years of excellent popes, the new one is... what's the correct euphemism here? Vegetable? Not the sharpest knife in the box? Somewhat of a dangerous intellect?





    In any case, Xystus IV is terrible. His Dip 3 rating the the worst that could happen to us. We need to check our badboy rating... phew! 32,85. That was lucky. And far too close a shave!





    We now have no room for further conquests and province gains. What to do? If we make peace with the Burgundians now, everyone and their mother in Europe will jump all over them and gain their provinces. Well, we'll just keep on fighting.
    Last edited by safferli; 18-02-2008 at 14:38.
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  13. #113
    academic outlaw Moderator safferli's Avatar
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    We win the second battle of Valenciennes.





    And the first European province falls into our hands: Lothringen.





    This is a peace offer I call insulting. Burgundy's colonies are lost, the capital and homelands are under siege, nearly all of Burgundy's provinces are under siege, the few armies that are left are no match for the trained and disciplined Papal troops. And they offer a White Peace?





    Instead of answering to that insult, we take Vlaandern. The probably single best and richest province in the game. At least in Europe.





    Hungary and Montenegro, Burgundy's allies, chicken out. We let them, no point in staying at war with them. Perhaps Burgundy will wake up and offer a decent peace deal.





    And there it is! The opportunistic AI again! Aragon is attacking Burgundy. Also, a map of the Caribbean for your viewing pleasure.





    Then things get strange... Chimu warns us. Silly children. Also, our war against Burgundy is all but won. All provinces are under siege and only a single enemy army left. Aragon has attacked Castille. Tststs... Those are Catholic provinces! We had an eye set on them!





    Then, the Hedjaz attack us. Those backstabbing traitors! So it's back to war with the Hedjaz and the Mamluks again. Our armies present should be able to fight those Muslims. We just teleport a few generals to the new front.





    Silly Hedjaz, after 15 days the city of Mekka falls. The eleventh crusade was a success!


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  14. #114
    academic outlaw Moderator safferli's Avatar
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    Ok, the aar has caught up with my actual game now. As you can see, this is a turning-point for the game. My badboy is just under the maximum and I can annex the Hedjaz (giving me Mekka) and gain a few provinces from Burgundy. This will surely put me over the bb threshold and start the bb wars.

    I never planned for the game to be like this. My first goal was to survive, the second goal was to grab whatever presented itself. It is my second EU3 game so far, I have never played a WC, neither did I ever go over the bb-max. I have no idea if I can pull off a WC -- it's difficult and there are still huge lands left over to annex. England and China can probably put up a good fight, too. And I heard it was boring. Besides, writing a good aar on a WC is difficult, as it's basically one battle after the next.

    So, I decided to present the aar and let you, the readers, decide in which direction the Papal States will continue. I see a few possibilities:
    • Wait 1 or 2 years for the bb to drop, then claim two rich provinces from Burgundy (probably Vlaandern and Santo Amaro, the CoTs). Then, continue as before.
    • As above, but use the turmoil of wars as an excuse to switch to Prostestant faith. By reading another Papal States aar I found out that this is possible. I never thought it would be, but it's true, the Papal States can convert. This would be fun, and send me into troubles -- less stability, nearly all provinces wrong religion penalty, no Papal controller benefits (ouch...) and few missionaries. On the plus side, I get the Conquest of Rome event
    • Annex the Hedjaz and get as many provinces possible from Burgundy. This will start the bb-wars and set me on a WC track. Don't know if I'll succeed, though. War exhaustion is quite high already and my stability is only -1.
    • Same as above, but wait for the war exhaustion to drop first.
    • Your own ideas
    • A combination of the above
    I'll wait a week or so, to give you time to present action plans. At the moment, I am leaning towards the stay under the bb-threshold, but convert to Protestant option, but I'm open to suggestions!

    I do hope the aar was entertaining so far and perhaps a bit educational. It's a little straightforward, but compensates with lots of pictures
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  15. #115
    General Lordban's Avatar
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    Now dare and take three provinces
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  16. #116
    academic outlaw Moderator safferli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lordban
    Now dare and take three provinces
    I don't That's why I am giving the readers the say in this game -- I can blame you if I mess up!
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  17. #117
    I say: Annex Hedjaz, let Burgundy keep all it's provinces.
    Than wait for at least 20 years before declaring war yourself and get your BB below 20.
    After that it's your own choice.

  18. #118
    Major MJAnderson's Avatar
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    Who do you have available to release as vassals?

    I would annex Hedjaz, take as many provinces from Burgandy you can before it gets carved up and release some less productive/high stability cost vassals to get your BB back down. Guarantee Burgandy so others will leave it alone or as a way to get some free CBs against the vultures waiting to attack.

  19. #119
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    I once converted to protestant as The Papal State, it isn't as exciting as I

    had expected. Right now I'm trying my luck as The Papal State starting in the

    1600's. I own Tuscany, Parma, Mantua, Santee, Oregon, Cape, and modern

    day Luoisiana, Mississippi, and Arkansas all in the first 3 hours.

  20. #120
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    The most important question in my opinion is whether you intend to assert some form of control over Mecca (ie. annex or vassalize Hedjaz). In the middle of the Reformation, and after the Ottomans have become the accepted masters of Constantinople, seizing Mecca or controlling it indirectly is a powerful message from the Papacy - powerful enough to earn it very long grudges.

    I know this is neither a narrative nor a history-book AAR, but for the sake of consistancy, if you're going to make such a bold move, you might as well accept the consequences and face a few BB wars. Whether you end them a few years later in appeasing white peaces or use them as a pretext to start on WC is up to you

    On the other hand, if you're willing to take white peace with Hedjaz, then perhaps you should wait a little until your BB drops below 32.00 and make peace with Burgundy in exchange for Bearn, getting rid of the irritation. You'll want to lie low at that point - you're already going to get into enough wars to keep your Papal Empire well fed because of high BB and ownership of other powers' cores.
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