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Thread: What if the Pope had 200,000 men? -- a Papal States EU3 1.3 aar

  1. #21
    academic outlaw Moderator safferli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBBD316
    Really impressive so far, will you be converting to Reformed?
    No, I had no plans for that... there is a little surprise down the road, though!

    Good idea, conquering Istanbul, I'll make a note of that.

  2. #22
    academic outlaw Moderator safferli's Avatar
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    Chapter 5: Heathen Conquests


    Well, a conquistador needs to find Terra Incognita! Priuli sets sail for the west coast of Africa, to a tribe known as the Congolese.





    Why Congo? Well, they are easy to get to, have only a few provinces and these have a high base tax value. I can't hope to annex the larger pagan countries (like the Incas) with just 8,000 cavalry and a mediocre leader without a larger tech advantage. I guess there are some on this forum who can, but that's wishful thinking for me! The Congolese have an additional advantage (for me, at least). Their lands are in a corridor, so that I can drive their beaten armies south, occupying their territory and none of their armies can re-take these lands. Annexation is inevitable.





    But no rest for the wicked! Priuli is immediately teleported over the Atlantic to lead a lone cavalry unit in Brasil, exploring the rich provinces of the Amazonas. The inland provinces contain gold, an excited Priuli writes to the pope!





    After some exploration, Priuli is getting restless. He points out that the tribe of the Creek, north american Indians, are rather weak and could be subjugated. Pope Clemens VIII agrees, but stresses the need for a legitimate reason to attack the heathen. Spies are sent to the capital of the Creek, sweet home Alabama.





    They fail to convince the Creek that the lands rightfully belong to the Pontifex of all Christians. Twice. Oh well, a lot of ducats down the drain. At least Rome has good sanitation... At least we weren't discovered, so our prestige stays high.





    Furious, Clemens VIII turns to his scholars in the universities. Again, they have come up with a brilliant idea: if the Papal States can have two national ideas, why stop there? Three is even better!





    Note the crippled Portugal. We won't be needing them, as we have our own forward bases for exploration now. We just need to keep this in mind, the weaker Portugal gets, the stronger Castille will be. What national idea to chose? "I want to do whatever I want!", screems the pope. Deus Vult it is, then, concede the scholars.





    Immediately, the Creek are DoWed for their insolence of killing our spies.





    The excitement of this new idea that he may attack anyone that doesn't follow the true faith was too much for Clemens VIII. He dies during a maniacal laughter fit. Innocentius VIII follows him, again an excellent ruler. These popes sure know their business! The war against the Creek is going well.





    Soon after, the first official act of Innocentius VIII is to accept the annexation of the Creek. Note the colonisation of Cuba, very rich provinces easy to colonise.





    The first nation has converted to the Protestant faith. Have a look in the log to see that it's Sicily, our vassal! What on earth where they thinking?

  3. #23
    academic outlaw Moderator safferli's Avatar
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    Distractions: Spread of Discoveries


    A little tip down the line: watch out for the spread of discoveries! After 50 years, your discoveries will spread to everyone in your tech group. This means, you only have 50 years to colonise the best spots, after which all hell breaks loose, as every single state in Europe and their grandmothers start colonising. This is what happened here. Aragon is colonising Puero Rico, The Teutonic Order is on one of those sugar islands, Austria is colonising Martinique.





    And I wanted those islands... What to do? use your spies to incite natives! The AI will never kill natives on purpose and those sugar islands have thousands of highly aggressive natives. As long as there are no troops in the province a single incite native action should kill the colony. Make sure you have a colonist and money to immediately claim the province for yourself! Then, kill the natives to avoid the same fate as the AI had.





    I needed to seal off Brasil for the AI, it was already colonising like mad. Those two inland provinces are gold provinces, so they are very valuable. Plus, once you get them, no-one can colonise further inland, as you have to have access to the province you are trying to colonise. This will give us a little breathing time. It's quicker to colonise those two inland provinces than to colonise the seven coastal provinces.

  4. #24
    Bravo.
    I tried a game as an Italian faction once(Urbino) and got my butt kicked. Glad to see someone else doing better.

    Tip noted. In my regular 1.3 game colonization seemed the province of a few factions but since downloading NA, "every single state in Europe and their grandmothers start colonising". Lucklily, in my latest game(as an Irish OPM), I'm one of those states weaseling off of the discoveries of others.

  5. #25
    academic outlaw Moderator safferli's Avatar
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    Just read your new aar, Zimfan. Good luck! It's true that it's (nearly) always the same states that colonise in 1.3: Aragon, Castille, Burgundy, the Italian states, Mecklenburg and Portugal/france/England of course. I've also seen the Teutonic Order and Lithuania colonise. Even more states colonise in NA?!? Well, I haven't bought NA yet and don't plan to in the near future. Though I heard a few good things about it, I'm quite happy with my 1.3.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by safferli
    Just read your new aar, Zimfan. Good luck! It's true that it's (nearly) always the same states that colonise in 1.3: Aragon, Castille, Burgundy, the Italian states, Mecklenburg and Portugal/france/England of course. I've also seen the Teutonic Order and Lithuania colonise. Even more states colonise in NA?!? Well, I haven't bought NA yet and don't plan to in the near future. Though I heard a few good things about it, I'm quite happy with my 1.3.
    Thanks, I'm happy whenever anyone reads my aar(feeds my overhealthy ego).
    Not sure if more people colonize in Na generally, but in my first NA game(with Catholic Church Mod) all those naitons and more have colonized, while I swoop in and grab rich provinces they've discovered. Bwahahahahaha!

    I've played pretty far beyond where my aar is so far, and I've had plenty of good luck, but more of the barely surviving in spite of myself kind than the build a great nation against all odds kind.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Zimfan
    Thanks, I'm happy whenever anyone reads my aar(feeds my overhealthy ego).
    I have pancakes, does your ego like pancakes?

    Some nice, early colonising, but why didn't you take colonial ventures to get more colonists a year?
    Getting a Casus Belli is often a lot easier than getting colonists (or missionaries or spies).

    Steckie

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    academic outlaw Moderator safferli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steckie
    Some nice, early colonising, but why didn't you take colonial ventures to get more colonists a year?
    Getting a Casus Belli is often a lot easier than getting colonists (or missionaries or spies).
    I chose Deus Vult as to be able to declare war on the pagans without losing stability. In my last Portugal game, I only took colonial ventures as 4th or 5th NI (can't remember exactly).

    My feeling is that one additional colonist per year will not outweigh the benefits of 30% overseas income, no need to invest money in stability or 10% inflation reduction. One additional colonist translates to an additional city every 10 years. Let's say (tax+production) income is 40 for that province (high base tax and sugar province). Viceroys gives you 30% additional tax income from all provinces every year! So you break even at slightly over 100 tax every 10 years, or 10 tax per year. That's just 5 overseas provinces with a workshop installed... I am oversimplifying, as the extra colonies will provide more income over the years, even as colonies (not cities). But still, I think Viceroys trumps Colonial Ventures any time. One exception: you need colonist fast to keep up with the AI and to grab all those good provinces.

    I usually put a single colonist in the provinces I like and want to have, then build up 1 or 2 provinces to city level. Lather, rinse, repeat. So all my colonies seem more impressive than they actually are!

    I hope this explains my reasoning a bit.

  9. #29
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    All those gameplay tips are very handy. Thank you.
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  10. #30
    Most excellent work. Certainly the Creek were truly audacious for not realizing the true authority that your Popes have in matters temporal as well as just spiritual... well, it seems in THEIR matters temporal, anyway. Good on conquering them. Deus Vult means that other unfortunate pagans are also on the chopping block. Hopefully you can get some more troops, and then take over the Incans for their rich reserves of gold! And to spread the True Faith to the heathen, of course.

    Oh, and the tips are great. Once I'm done with EUII games for mega-campaign use, I think I'll want to try some EUIII finally... I mean I did buy it after all :-D
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  11. #31
    Major Zauberfloete's Avatar
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    The popes power is truly spreading over all lands! Still the Holy lands must be liberated! Time for a new crusade eh?

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Steckie
    I have pancakes, does your ego like pancakes?
    Zimfan's ego: Mmmm...pancakes...

  13. #33
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    Excellent result, how is Europe looking?

  14. #34
    academic outlaw Moderator safferli's Avatar
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    Nil-the-frog: I'm glad the tips help you. I was thinking a bit more on the Viceroys vs. Colonial Ventures issue, and I believe that my reasoning is not entirely correct. The results stay the same, though: Viceroys gives money now, Colonial Ventures later. I'll need to think a bit more on this and then I'll post my ramblings...

    Corbett: Yes, more pagans are waiting for us to exert our authority over the souls -- and the body is a vessel for the soul! I'm glad this convinces you to try eu3, I was a little sceptical at first of eu3 (no historical events etc), but now I do believe that eu3 is vastly more fun than eu2 ever was.

    Zauberfloete: A new crusade is, indeed, planned. But the crusades of the middle ages have taught the popes one thing: if you want somthing done right, you'll have to do it all by your bloody self!

    BBBD316: An update on Europe is soon to come. You'll have to wait for my lunchbreak, though

  15. #35
    academic outlaw Moderator safferli's Avatar
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    Chapter 6: Papal Expansion and Delusions of Grandeur


    First off, by popular demand, a map of Europe in 1505. Take a look at that pretty scary French navy in Provence -- oh dear! That's 42 ships in Provence alone. My own main naval force was 35 ships at that time. It's barely visible in the outliner (or what's the name of that thing?)





    Bad news from the New World. Apparently, Great Britain has some ambitions of global hegemony as well, they are at war with Shawnee, a tribe that we have a truce with. Bother!





    We can't let this happen, those are good provinces and GB already has a very strong foothold in America. Breaking a truce will give us a massive stability hit of -5, so I' usually recommend waiting the five years till the truce expires. However, I decided to attack the Shawnee, taking the stability hit. That was too much for Innocentius VIII -- he died from a stroke and was succeeded by Leo X, another one of those marvellous popes.





    Note that the remains of the Shawnee have been annexed. This was a BB-costly war, as I had to annex individual pagan provinces for 1 BB each, otherwise GB would have snatched them from me without second thoughts. I also annexed the capital of the Shawnee for 5 additional BB points. Also, our stability is at -3 from breaking the truce. We can't declare war at this level of stability, so all our investments go into stability for the time being.

    Oh well, we still have some room left with our BB, so we secure military access from the Brits and move North. The Huron is the last native american tribe left in north America. Naturally, we attack them before the Brits can do so. Just for the Huron's own protection, of course.





    The result of the war was never in doubt. That's Burgundy, Portugal, Venice and Mecklenburg colonising various provinces in the screenshot.





    Resulting from all the new cultures we gained, the new pope Leo X completely forgot that Avignon was one of the founding provinces of the Papal States. Who has heard of those Occitans anyway? Didn't one of our predecessors call for a crusade against them? Well, good riddance, then... The caribbean is getting pretty crowded from all those colonisers, as you can see from the screenshot.





    Now for some updates on day-to-day problems an aspiring superpower has to deal with. The AI loves to incite natives, and that single spy action should be outlawed! It should give 20BB points and a casus belli for every state using that mean (except for us, naturally. We are the pope, after all). Aragon tricked the natives to attack our settlement in Pernambuco, only to place their own setters right after that! Incredible insolence! Well, we do the same, pay the natives to attack the settlement of Aragon and place our own setters right after the mission succeeds.





    Then, what on earth are those (supposedly neutral) Swiss thinking?





    We were allied once! What did I do to them? I even gave them an Italian province from the Venice peace deal!





    And again! Eat chocolate, you Heidi motherfu&%$ers!(Extra points for the one who can name that film quote) Just stay in your Alps and leave us alone!

    We'll finish this update with a look at our French (and Swiss) borders in 1512. France and Castille are fighting in North Africa and we are still allied with Burgundy. Mainz still bravely holds out as our vassal in the middle of the HRE!



  16. #36
    academic outlaw Moderator safferli's Avatar
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    Cliffhanger: Papal Self-confidence, Run Amok


    France is a strong enemy, even stronger as it is allied with Castille. But what do they say? A known enemy is better than an untested friend. It should be easier to deal with the French now, rather than wait 50 years fro them to become a true Great Power. France's stability is at -3, they are bogged down in a war in North Africa, I hope many of their troops are stationed there. Also, we are allied to Burgundy, they will open up a very effective northern front.

    First step: claim a province from France to gain a CB.





    Check. Now, declare war and wait for Burgundy to do the same.





    Check and -- wtf?!? Look at the log, Burgundy dishonoured our alliance! Why? It's the perfect time to attack France! It's the only damn reason I entered the alliance with Burgundy in the first place! Goddammit, lesson learned. Allies are rubbish, they drag you into wars you don't want to hold and when you decide it's a good idea to attack someone they just chicken out. Venice is the notably exception, as our vassal and ally they are doing a pretty good job of helping us out. Quite useful, they are.

    Our first move of the war is visible in the screenshot: Our main navy is moving out to attack the French navy to gain control of the Mediterranean. If we win that battle, we can bottle up the French troops in Africa (hopefully many of them) and sink all transports that try to ferry them across. This will make the fights in France easier. Or so the pope believes.

    But still, this is going to be a hell of a fight. It was close even with the help of Burgundy as a second front. Now it's just insane. I start to mint 100% of my treasury and recruiting new regiments. We'll need them.

    Coming tomorrow: are the Papal States doomed? Will they survive the onslaught of the combined French/Castille behemoth? Or has Leo X bitten off more than he can chew?

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by safferli
    [size=3] Check and -- wtf?!? Look at the log, Burgundy dishonoured our alliance! Why? It's the perfect time to attack France! It's the only damn reason I entered the alliance with Burgundy in the first place! Goddammit, lesson learned. Allies are rubbish,
    Wrong lesson! Better check your relations to ally, its stability and its relation to target before declaring war. Information is (and was) key to successful wars, I never got disappointed by a major ally.

    Regards

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  18. #38
    academic outlaw Moderator safferli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgon1988
    Wrong lesson! Better check your relations to ally, its stability and its relation to target before declaring war. Information is (and was) key to successful wars, I never got disappointed by a major ally.
    Well, The AI is keen to jump any country for minimal gains, I thought I presented the best opportunities for Burgundy to take a piece of France. Well, obviously the AI thought otherwise.

    Next time I'll check my alliance partner and only declare war at his leisure! Thanks for that tip!

  19. #39
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    Hah, teach the french how to do a crusade the right way! Against Castille!! Hmm...well the spanish will have one problem less or more, the Spanish Inquisition!!

  20. #40
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    Great AAR! I'm looking forward to see what happens with the war with France.

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