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Thread: Rome AARisen - a Byzantine AAR

  1. #5641
    Programer armonistan's Avatar
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    I don't mean to be rude, but...

    I am proud to say I recognized one of the pics in this (by far best) update (in a while)... Altair anybody

  2. #5642
    I really wonder if Andronikos would be remembered in the future, just like how people remembered Marcus Aurelius. The last Emperor of a golden age that was ended by his son/s.

    By the way, could we have some sort of update on what is going on in North Africa? I would really like to know if North Africa have managed to become a prosperous region and become the breadbasket of the Empire.

  3. #5643
    Quote Originally Posted by Kirsch27 View Post
    And @ vadermath, Yeah, Demetrios Megas had Nikolaios at the end, but this Demetrios will have plenty of competent advisors to aid him as well, and he doesn't seem like such a bad sort anyways, now that he's been chastised. The wealth of the Empire might tempt him back into his vices, but who knows? All I'm saying is that he seems relatively competent, and if drunkenness and lechery are grounds to bar somebody from the throne, then this just isn't the Komnenid Empire I know and love anymore.
    Well, he does seem quite...willing, but only time will tell if he's actually able and competent. One can plot and think all one wants, but once the time comes to actually do something, we'll see if he's Emperor material.

  4. #5644

  5. #5645
    Mare Ban al Olteniei Laur's Avatar

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    Yes, by the looks of it, it does seem like we are heading towards a second "Year of the Four Emperors." Will Alexandros play the role of Vespasian?
    "When I lead my army against Baghdad in anger, whether you hide in heaven or in earth, I will bring you down from the spinning spheres; I will toss you in the air like a lion. I will leave no one alive in your realm; I will burn your city, your land, your self.

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  6. #5646
    Second Lieutenant JackTheRipper21's Avatar
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    This is easily the best AAR I have seen, I started reading it a few months ago, and finally decided to buy Crusader Kings because of this. Anyway into the story itself my favorite enemy of the series was probably Drogo II Capet, if only because he has been the only European King to get his shit together and managed to play a successful chess master who seemed to match the Kommenids move after move for most the game only to slip up in the end of the game.

    As for the Emperors my favorite so far was Thomas I because in some ways I feel he was the most tragic out of all of them. He grew up in his fathers Basil's shadow who was seen as probably the greatest Roman Emperor ever, or if not that one of the best. Then even out of his sons he was the most ignored and marginalized. His first wife who he seems to actually like maybe even love? for the short time we see her and him together. Then she gets murdered by his best friend. He goes to Rome and tries to match the greatness of his father ,but always falls short. He fails to defeat Persia, and when he captures Rome it's not as a hero ,but as a madman. Finally you see him descend to madness as everyone he knows seems to betray him and revile him except for his friend, who he lashes out at. Then finally at the battle of Messinia he simply has nothing more to lose, and ends his life going down fighting and enters history only to be remembered as a monster by everyone except his one friend.

    Anyway other than that I love the writing since then, I'm on the update where you make the map of the various Europe States, and I really think I am going to like Taymiyyah and I bet he will have a big role in tearing the Empire to pieces.

    Edit:

    Okay I caught up in the story now to the final part... poor Capetian Empire you will be missed. Actually in some ways this may cause a reversal of French Fortunes in England. Especially if Hugues can implement the Gendarme system, the French might be able to push the Scots back, especially since they managed to seriously bog down the invading Romans.

    However this update also got me thinking about what might happen in regards to the new world (which for simplicities sake you should just name America, simply to avoid confusion on everyones part). Anyway the update got me thinking of the big potential colonizing powers and so far I really think there are four possibilities.

    1. Is the Scandinavians, especially if they reform their union and the fact they have already reached the New World before, so they even if its buried in old tales at least KNOW there is something across the Sea. Also since Sweden seems to be the dominating force of the Region, if the protestant reformation happens, the Swede's who were historically the original great power of the Protestants will likely be its sole proponent. So you might end up with a Protestant nation ruling the North Sea.

    2. France and it being absorbed/marginalized by the Empire pretty much dashed its chances of building a colonial Empire, however it did bring up the interesting possibility this timeline makes me feel the French Nobles after they force out the Roman Viceroy might be the ones to create a Magna Carta like document to control their King. Also its always possible once the Romans leave they might gain England and thus have better ports & access to the sea than they historically had.

    3. UK this is the other major possibility, even more so now that France got pwned by Rome. Depending on how the now displaced French King manages he can either accelerate the collapse of the French England, or he can successfully implement the Gendarmes push the Scots back, potentially out of England proper. Anyway depending on who wins, Britain is probably going to be in the best position to begin building a colonial Empire out of the Catholic Kingdoms.

    4. Spain and the Andalusian are probably in a better place than the Spanish historically were. They can probably colonize most of what Spain did with only potential interference from Mali, as long as the leaders dont look east and try to gobble up the divided Successor kingdoms of the Komenid Empire. Also they are really the only orthodox power in the race for taking the America.

    5. Mali are probably the most interesting simply because it is displaced Muslims carving an Empire out of the New World. Actually in some ways I would prefer if you play as these guys ,because it seems to be that African states according to the forums dont try to colonize, and Muslim Africans conquering South America and brining down the Inca Empire just seems filled with juicy alternate history.

    Overall the new world will probably be more of a powder keg than historically because, instead of just England/France/Spain being the big dogs duking it out for control you have five potential powers almost all of which have different religious and cultural backgrounds by this point. Personally I am rooting for Scandinavia, but I also for probably the only time ever wish the French luck because in this Universe they are so much more awesome.
    Last edited by JackTheRipper21; 14-02-2011 at 16:41.

  7. #5647
    Second Lieutenant Avalanchemike's Avatar
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    Just replying to say that for the few months I wasn't able to access the forums, I've been keeping up with this and (orgasming at) all the new updates.

  8. #5648
    voisin13 – Welcome to the AAR! Now you can join everyone else in the long line of waiting for the next update! (which is down below, so not much of a wait) Thank you for your praise! Which characters did you enjoy the most? What parts do you think need polishing?

    so, this last update is like setting the stage for a drama to come, and Andronikos looking with worry at Alexandros quite tells in what direction the drama will unfold.
    about characters I enjoyed reading, Manuel l was by far the most fascinating, an elusive shadow and grey emminence in the same time, so very byzantine in his actions, and with benefic effects in empire's long terms politics (adding Alexandria to the imperial demesne, managing to transfer power in a smooth, non-violent way, removing rebellious dynatoi and so on).
    and about parts that need polishing, well, the only thing that got into my attention was the repetition of the same (not so usual) word in the same phrase - somehow like I used the term "drama" in my first sentence of this reply; it diden't happen often, but there were a couple of times when it did - guess you were writing very fast, and with these huge updates it slipped your atention.

  9. #5649
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    I remember BT saying, he stopped playing "to win" around (or before) the time of the big war against the HRE and France. But did he ever say if he sticked to playing BYZ, or switched to another tag? If he switched, then the story should at some point follow not the human actions but AI actions as BYZ. That would probably lead to hilarious and bizarre results quite fast... like, losing 90% of his vassals and then Gavelkinding the realm, leaving the map of Europe splattered like a Jackson Pollock painting within just 20 or 30 years.

  10. #5650
    Eudaemon Bagricula's Avatar
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    Why doesn't Andronikos name Alexios as co-Emperor to Nikephoras? I don't quite get his preferences here.

    As I see it, we've got a stable of pretty close contenders personality-wise...none stand-out remarkably from the pack. All seem characterized primarily by their ambition and sense of entitlement.

    More important for succession is finding good helmsman of the state. Albrechts, Mehtars, and Sophies seem to be scarce on the ground. The Exarch seems fairly competent and doesn't have any obvious vices likely to damage the Empire, unless he is foolish enough to start aggrandizing his person publically. Syrenos seemed competent in the past, but his failure to eliminate the Exarch and his hamfisted stoking of the fires of civil war make me doubt his judgement.

  11. #5651
    Second Lieutenant Avalanchemike's Avatar
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    Syrenios is in cahoots with the Exarch.

  12. #5652
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bagricula View Post
    More important for succession is finding good helmsman of the state. Albrechts, Mehtars, and Sophies seem to be scarce on the ground. The Exarch seems fairly competent and doesn't have any obvious vices likely to damage the Empire, unless he is foolish enough to start aggrandizing his person publically. Syrenos seemed competent in the past, but his failure to eliminate the Exarch and his hamfisted stoking of the fires of civil war make me doubt his judgement.
    Well the Exarch is a Komnenos and likely has a family clan of his own. Given half a chance, he would probably try and usurp the throne for his lineage.

  13. #5653
    Honourable Saxon Thegn AlexanderPrimus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leviathan07 View Post
    Well the Exarch is a Komnenos and likely has a family clan of his own. Given half a chance, he would probably try and usurp the throne for his lineage.
    He's already attempting this--Alexios has already married his daughter, if memory serves, and he's actively trying to push Alexios into the purple.

  14. #5654
    The Exarch could only try to usurp the throne through Alexios and his future heirs; He could never officially place a Makrinokomnenos on the throne, seeing as Andie made them renounce the claims to the throne when they renounced the Imperial family name.

  15. #5655
    Eudaemon Bagricula's Avatar
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    Like AP said, the Exarch's future grandkids are already in line for the throne.

    Seems like a win-win for the Empire as Makrinokomnenos doesn't seem to have any tendencies towards costly foreign adventures, decentralization of authority, or overweaning ambition. He's played the game well-enough so far, no reason to think he wouldn't make a useful minister for the remainder of his life.

    Furthermore, this would weaken the dynatoi (essentially the most powerful branch would get gobbled up by the Imperial Kommenids...ah, mergers) and secure a stable wealthy base in the West from which Constantinople can both respond to instability in newly cowed France and face the Gabrielids with near full-strength.

  16. #5656
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avalanchemike View Post
    Syrenios is in cahoots with the Exarch.
    If that's so...then I've gotta say, it looks like the only reason for Andie to oppose Alexius would be pique.

  17. #5657
    Blasted Conniving Roman General_BT's Avatar
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    Bagricula – Well, there could be more than pique—Makrinokomnenos is from a rival branch of the family, one that has (if one follows Salic tradition) a more direct claim to the throne (all the way back to Manuel, the second son of the Megaloprepis, as opposed to Andie’s claim, which goes back through a daughter then into David’s line). Andronikos probably would assume that first, if Alexios inherits, Makrinokomnenos would move up into some ‘von Franken’ position, and that two, he’d use that newfound wealth and power to either turn Alexios into a figurehead, or outright usurp the throne. Andronikos might not Alexios also because he might assume that if the boy has joined Makrinokomnenos after some sweet talk now, what would keep him from being swayed about by other ministers in the future (Andronikos, of course, would never think that he could be hoodwinked or lured by his own ministers, of course ).

    There’s also the problem that Andronikos wants a co-Emperor for Nikephoros who won’t simply tonsure him and oust him altogether (Regardless of whether it’d be better or worse for the empire). Alexios is probably not such a prince.

    vadermath – Well, there’s the problem actually. They renounced the name Komnenos, but after Andronikos is gone, what would keep a Megoskyriomachos Makrinokomnenos from simply counter-renouncing, or claiming some technicality that made the agreement null and void? Other than an Alexios willing to sack his father-in-law from the position or worse…

    AlexanderPrimus – Yes, Alexios has already married Makrinokomnenos’ daughter—it was part of Andronikos’ sweetener to get the Exarch to win and win now.

    Leviathan07 – I’d stopped playing “to win” a long while back—about Basil’s time if not before. The Empire was literally so huge that if I’d pushed for it, a world conquest was unavoidable. Instead of outright conquering places, I did what I thought the Byzantines would do—I set up client kingdoms in Arabia, and Persia, and for a while Exarchates (in CK terms, also kingdoms) in Spain and North Africa. Then I had a fun time reconquering some of them.

    Oh, there’s also the choices of Theodoros (who we know very little about), or any of the people underage (Leo, Konstantinos, Andronikos, and Heraklios). The latter three aren’t likely going to assuage anyone’s fears from having a leper as an emperor though…

    Avalanchemike – Good to see you sir! Clean off your keyboard. If Syrenios is in cahoots with the Exarch, it would be an empire plot brewing right under Andronikos’ nose. Two Megoskyriomachoi, one in the East, one in the West, each with an Emperor under their thumb? Who knows, could be.

    viosin13 – I will admit, repetition of words is one thing I do occasionally, and it does come from the speed with which I finish the updates. I’m trying to work on it. Manuel, by general opinion I’ve heard from the readers (correct me if I’m wrong) is viewed as the best of the emperors so far for the reasons to you described—he kept the nobility in line, he ensured a smooth succession—even if he was partially a sociopath while doing so. I know he was probably my favorite emperor to write!

    JackTheRipper21 – Welcome to the story! Now there’s an interesting preference! Story-wise, Thomas is the perfect tragedy—if he’d had a little more fatherly attention, if he’d listened to his friend, if his first wife had still be around… the ifs are boundless. You’re one of the few that’s expressed a liking for that part of the story (I think amongst the rest of the readership he’s rather universally loathed). I almost wonder if Thomas in a different universe would have made a better hard-charging cavalry trooper than an Emperor—he wasn’t good at command, but he was awesome in hand to hand combat. Chances are he and the Empire both would’ve been far happier…

    Laur – Perhaps, though it might be five depending on which of them throw their hats in the ring, and which bide their time for a moment of weakness…

    TC Pilot – You just want to see the Komnenoi empire fail, in the hopes the Bataczes’ empire rise in its place.

    ray243 – I’m planning on doing a general world update right after Andronikos’ death, as well as probably a series of interims on the parts of the empire, so North Africa will get some spotlight then.

    armoristan – I’ve pillaged Assassin’s Creed multiple times for pictures! I think the first one was way way back when Hajnal assassinated Demetrios’ mother early in the tale…

    Morrell8 – The Mask. I like it! Consider your nickname for Nikephoros assimilated!

    vanin – Gottfried definitely has pockets deep enough and connections wide enough to raise a huge army on short notice, and he’s got imperial blood (for a different throne) to boot. Which way he will turn, and what he will do could have as much or larger an effect on the future as the dynastic struggle…

    Kirsch27 – While it’s true that the city is not the empire, it is the symbolic jewel, the living, beating heart. Thomas II was ousted from Konstantinopolis and regained the throne, but it took a long, bloody struggle. If four people with equal claims demand they have the throne, they are all going to be scrambling for the advantage of doing so from The City. And for every Emperor that has held the city despite The Mob, there’s an emperor who fell because the angry populace got their hands on him…

    As for Demetrios, militarily he did his finest work early on (pre-Seljuk war), and late in his reign (post-Nikolaios as co-Emperor). The Seljuk War was a victory (the Seljuks were fought to a standstill), but it was still a disappointment. The Cuman War was disastrous—Demetrios himself was captured in battle. We know stat-wise this Demetrios doesn’t hold a candle to his namesake (even in the martial stat—16 to 10), and his other stats are less than heavenly. As the first Demetrios showed, some fine backup can help on that front… but would this Demetrios choose fine backup is the question…

    Nikolai – There was a future teaser though, that said the Persians were in Konstantinopolis at one point. Could it be Alexandros? Or was it someone else?

    Vesimir – He’s in the city, but with only a small fraction of his men. Taking the empire from the inside like that would take significant planning and plotting. Unless Alexandros was absolutely sure ahead of time of how the populace was going to receive him, as well as plotted and planned with the heads of the tagmata stationed in and around the city, he probably wouldn’t risk making a coup attempt with only the portion of the his men in the parade. However, as we clearly saw, the crowd’s reaction has emboldened him. Barring something fantastic, if he reaches the city in war, chances are it’d throw its gates open and receive him as a hero…

    Qorten – The purple chances people sometimes, but if Demetrios goes back to acting the way he was, it’s likely he’ll either become a pawn of some nobles (they offer their daughters to him in return for outrageous favors), or the enemy of others (who are angry their daughters got deflowered). Neither is a good position for the emperor or the empire to be in, and chances are both would happen should his old habits arise.

    wolfcity – Sad face to the crashed computer. Well, you’re caught up, which as many of the readers will tell you, actually means you have to wait for your next update! Well, either a series of bad emperors (I’ve already alluded to one REALLY bad emperor, but the others could be decent) or a seriously declining empire that is past the ability of reform or renewal…

    Panjer – Constantinople the city, or Constantinople as in the throne? If the swords come out, both could be in peril.

    Enewald – I don’t care who gets what. I want the icing! Incidentally, this week for a friend’s birthday party I’m going to make a rainbow colored cake. If it turns out epic (or if it flops), I’ll post some pictures.

    cezar87 – No, we really don’t, other than he’s been eager to please his entire service in the Oikoi. That could mean he’s a poodle politically, or he could simply be a wolf in sheep’s clothing. Part of Andronikos’ trust of him is his undoubted missing Ioannis—Angelos has been his best friend and right hand man since they were children. Andronikos having to stay in the city and run the empire while Angelos is laid up sick in Ikonion is likely the longest the two have been apart since they were children. A visit would be in order…

    asd21593 – Four factions for co-Emperor. There can only be one!

    Zzzzz… – Cecilia had three kids—Demetrios (the eldest of them all), Nikephoros (the leper), and a daughter who died in childhood.

    RGB – I also love the delicious irony that the clergy will be demanding another Andronikos without knowing they’re demanding another skeptic… Whomever takes the throne is going to face some giant shoes to fill—Andronikos’ public image is stainless, his accomplishments huge. Nikephoros certainly won’t get a chance to fill those shoes—could his co-Emperor?
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  18. #5658
    Hmm, I wonder if Historians in the future would actually be able to discover that Andronikos is a sceptic?

    By the way, does everyone here think that it will be nice if we can create a wikia that document the entire AAR? At the moment, the sheer size of the story and the characters make it extremely hard for a fair number of readers to recall all the little details.

  19. #5659
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    Quote Originally Posted by ray243 View Post
    By the way, does everyone here think that it will be nice if we can create a wikia that document the entire AAR? At the moment, the sheer size of the story and the characters make it extremely hard for a fair number of readers to recall all the little details.
    Would be cool. Good luck finding people to do it.
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  20. #5660
    Quote Originally Posted by General_BT View Post
    vadermath – Well, there’s the problem actually. They renounced the name Komnenos, but after Andronikos is gone, what would keep a Megoskyriomachos Makrinokomnenos from simply counter-renouncing, or claiming some technicality that made the agreement null and void? Other than an Alexios willing to sack his father-in-law from the position or worse…
    Sure, but should a Makrinokomnenos usurp the throne (whilst counter-renouncing his Komnenid renouncement), he'd give a valid reason for all the other Komnenid branches out there to take back their Komnenid names, which would automatically give them a claim to the throne. That would be capable of sparking a ridiculously epic and chaotic civil war (in which every Komnenid branch would fight for its own claims) which would ruin the Empire completely. No, I think even Phillipos realizes that between that, and ruling through an Alexios puppet, the latter is both far simpler and far less expensive.

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