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Rome AARisen - a Byzantine AAR

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America was not named after the person who discovered it, for it would have then been known as Columbia, but after the person who realized it was a different continent all together, Amerigo Vespucci.

As for Islam being weak, I agree that the lack of an Ottoman superpower would ease the pressure on the European Christian states. Vienna would be quite safe in this timeline, even though it might not develop beyond the size of a village. However, the inverse effect exercised by the resurgent Roman Empire on the muslim world might have accelerated the emigration and subsequent conversion of the peoples lying beyond the edge of the map. I wouldn't be surprised to see that the whole of subequatorial Africa practices a form of Islam, as does India, Indochina and Indonesia, while muslim explorers, traders and colonists might have established 13 colonies on the coast of Australia, colonies now enjoying a long period of "salutary neglect."
 
Laur said:
America was not named after the person who discovered it, for it would have then been known as Columbia, but after the person who realized it was a different continent all together, Amerigo Vespucci.
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Thanks for stating the obvious. But this timeline changed 400 years before New World was discovered, and 400 years of diversification it's highly unlikely that the same person will name America.
 
I personally don't like it when writers create a secret language for their stories, like naming tanks "barrels" and changing the names of continents to fit some alternate history. As a new reader, you are left confused and bewildered until a "grognard" inducts you into the secret language of this particular story... personally, as a long-time follower, I'd also dislike using nerdy and possibly clumsy terms in this thread. I don't need that much immersion, thank you very much... I can enjoy the story just as well without it.

And I'm sure BT can come up with a plausible reason why it would be named "America" in this story, too. He can change the explorer's name to Amerigo Vespudopoulos ;)
 
I personally don't like it when writers create a secret language for their stories
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Yes, it all ends up being a bunch of greek to most readers ;)

Leviathan07 said:
I don't need that much immersion, thank you very much... I can enjoy the story just as well without it.
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A good story should be immersive, certainly all the greek helps give this aar an excellent feel. And you can't claim "barrel" is terribly much more complicated for a new reader to figure out than all the banpantoloukomnenokratoli running around. :p
 
Carlstadt Boy said:
Thanks for stating the obvious. But this timeline changed 400 years before New World was discovered, and 400 years of diversification it's highly unlikely that the same person will name America.
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I'm afraid you misunderstood me so allow me to explain. Just as many other historical characters such as Friedrich Hohenstaufen or Thomas d'Aquinas managed to get themselves into the story, there's no reason why Amerigo shouldn't manage as well. And he shouldn't take much space - after all he only needs to have one line: "I don't think this is Asia"
 
Laur said:
after all he only needs to have one line: "I don't think this is Asia"
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Hopefully he's not standing next to a descendant of Thomas I Pope-slayer..."WHAT? Contradict Caesar?"*snick* exit Amerigo, pursued by bear

More seriously...when did the continental divisions get firmed up? How is Anatolia in the same continent as farthest Cathay?

Since Romanion spans Spain to Central Asia, might they instead push the Europe/Asia dividing line out a bit? When did the Urals become relevant?
 
Bagricula said:
When did the Urals become relevant?
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Western Europeans still thought of Russians as Asians until the 1500s at least, and didn't consider them fully European until Pyotr I Velikiy much later. Until the 1600s, Sibiria was not conquered by Russians, but was instead tribal and mongolian style society, and so I think yes 'Europe' could grow because of this, the whole Mediterranean might be considered Europe, as well as the Black Sea region, and Russia much earlier as well, but Persia and Transoxania don't seem to be overly greek, they are merging cultures and staying Asian. The Mongols are still in control of the Urals, so Russia won't become 'Europe' until later, still.
 
The continental divisions were fixed quite early, by Ptolemy or his contemporaries. They lived and worked in Alexandria, and divided the world thus:

- Africa was everything west of Alexandria (and the Nile)
- Asia was everything east of Alexandria (and the Nile)
- Europa was everything along the north shore of the Mediterranean.

Since clear demarcations were sought, the Africa/Asia border was quickly shifted to the Red Sea, and the Europa /Asia border was located at the Hellespont. The regions north of the Black Sea were called "Scythia" and I don't think they really ever fixed them as "European" or "Asian".

I don't think "Europa" exists as a cultural concept at this point. It's just a geographical term. "Europa" as a cultural concept was AFAIK invented by the renaissance. Philosophers re-read Thucydides, Herodot etc and chose to identify the Ottoman Turks as heirs to the Persians, and their own (Catholic) Christian culture as heirs to the Greeks, nobly fighting the alien and violent orientals.

Eventually I suppose this kind of split will come up again... it's more or less a constant of Eurasian history after all.
 
Interesting map. I see you went with the icons after all.

I´m actually surprised at the lack of attention to support ships. Does the navy hire them on an ad-hoc basis or must all marine ride on rowed ships.

As for White Slaves in the Americas - can´t really happen. The most productive regions are tropical, and whites (Christian, Muslim or Aionite) will die in frightening percentages for a good long while. They can petty much only maintain themselves as a colonial elite that does no agricultural work at all.
 
RGB said:
will die in frightening percentages for a good long while.
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Because the blacks brought over to the western tropics totaly didn't die in frightening percentages eh?
 
Update will be forthcoming when I get time to finish it. Right now a sick boyfriend and the ongoing "Snowpocalypse" (also known as Snowzilla or Snowtorious B.I.G.) storm yesterday are taking all of my writing time. I'll have more replies up then as well.

As a side note - freezing rain sucks! A half inch of ice under a pack of snow is the only thing that sucks more!
 
Hope it warms up where you are BT. It's sitting around the low 30's here, which, combined with the humidity, means were all sweating like there's no tomorrow. Trade weather? ;)
Also, the history-book update was really good! All of us here hope that you find time to update again.
 
General_BT said:
Update will be forthcoming when I get time to finish it. Right now a sick boyfriend and the ongoing "Snowpocalypse" (also known as Snowzilla or Snowtorious B.I.G.) storm yesterday are taking all of my writing time. I'll have more replies up then as well.

As a side note - freezing rain sucks! A half inch of ice under a pack of snow is the only thing that sucks more!
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Bah! In my experience with Americans, what you call bad weather and reason to not go to work is pretty lame stuff.:p

Lots of well wishes to the boyfriend though!
 
Interesting update. It looks like Andi, for all his efforts to crush the Princes, will have a serious succession crisis on his hands. One that might well start before his actual demise. Nikephoros is building a name for himself, but is likely suffering from leprosy. Manuel looks capable, but his status as a bastard will exclude him from inheriting, unless his true mothers heritage is revealed. Egypt seems to be biding its time, while Makrinokonemnos could become a powerbroker. And lets not forget Gottfried building an army and Shah Alexandros gaining a fearsome reputation. Andi needs a plan soon.

Looking forward for the Burgundian update. Combine the wealth of Flanders (cloth manufacturing in Bruges and Ghent), the upcoming rise of Holland (trade) and the Rhinelands resources and you will have a potential Renaissance superpower. If King Dietmar can reign in the rather unruly Dutch and Flemish citycouncils. The cities in the region are used doing whatever they like and will not look kindly towards a king trying to get in the way of profit. Still a united Bourgondië definetly has my interest.

On a sidenote, I would prefer some snow above the dreary monsoon that is the average Dutch winter.
 
There's something that's been bugging me since Safyia first appeared. From what I understand she's a bastard, and so she cannot inherit any claims to pass on to any child. If this is the case then Manuel's claim is no stronger than that of any imperial bastard.
 
Nikolai said:
Bah! In my experience with Americans, what you call bad weather and reason to not go to work is pretty lame stuff.
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Speaking as a person who still hasn't gotten done with all the shovelling that has to be done, I believe the 20 inches of snow that fell in the span of less than a day with 20-40 mph winds would qualify as bad weather.
 
FrozenWall said:
Because the blacks brought over to the western tropics totaly didn't die in frightening percentages eh?
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At the risk of sounding callous, not the same percentages if meant to settle, and we´re all understating what Trans-Atlantic plantation slavery was. It was a system designed to work the labour force to death. The Sub-Saharan populations, being more used to the climate and resistant to tropical diseases, lasted longest in the inhuman process. Attempts at enslaving and working the natives resulted in very quick depopulation, and attempts at white plantation slavery quickly failed for the same reason; hardier than the natives, the white workers were still very vulnerable outside their climatic zone.

The high-mortality sea transits would likely stay deadly to your hypothetical white slaves, compounded manifold by the trans-Saharan voyage that must precede it.

In other words, as horrible as it sounds, it makes no sense and if there are any large-scale slave plantations in the Muslim new world, they will likely be black. I´m jsut hoping there´s no reason for them to develop instead.
 
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