It would be sweet if somewhere down the line there was an Aeonite Emperor. Not very likely, but one can dream.
Rome AARisen - a Byzantine AAR
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Servius Magnus - Considering the position of Byzantine Emperor is a semi-religious office, an Aionite Emperor would be a disaster. Likely he wouldn't hold onto the throne long once word of his conversion slipped out.
Siind - Exactly. Skepticism in CK doesn't lead to automatic excommunication down the line, there's just a threat of it.
Andie believes there is a God (hence the "I hate..." line), he just doesn't find God as honest and just as Roger Bacon. Even then, not liking God, he still can't bring himself to completely finish the phrase "I hate God." There are quite a few historians who would say that medieval cultural discourse was so saturated with religion that the concept of atheism as we understand it would be completely alien to someone from the Middle Ages.
Kirsch27 - True on the non-Christian points (see Servius Magnus above). Andie doesn't disbelieve, but he's definitely questioning the "God is Good, God is Just" mantra. That in and of itself isn't a killer--so long as he keeps those views private, or spins them as merely a "Christian struggling with his faith," a classic trope that would provoke more pity than anger if it is properly used by the Emperor. Now, if he runs into the Hagia Sophia during service, screaming that God is a liar and a thief, then we'd be in Gabriel territory.
Laur - Should Andie survive into adulthood, there's a good chance he's going to accelerate the process already going (which some of you have been noting)--scholars and thinkers of great note congregating in Konstantinopolis. In this timeline, the city is the center of an all-powerful empire, that covers the traditional origins of the Renaissance, as well as extensive regions known for both Christian and Muslim scholastic thought. I can't see any way, other than an ultraconservative crackdown by the Emperor, that intellectuals wouldn't want to travel to Konstantinopolis...
Vesimir - In CK terms, IIRC he was getting military training, like half of the Komnenid Emperors (Nikolaios, Thomas I, and Thomas III being the exceptions I think)
armoristan - Probably not, unfortunately. Aionism would mean civil war and Andie's likely death...
Fulcrumvale - There's definitely the same dynamic, save Ioannis seems more like rough and tumble Vataczes than suave and debonair Rodrigo, and Cecilia has much more fire and spit than Sophie when she was young. Will they have the same trajectory, however?
asd21593 - You never know. I could be kind to him just to mess with you all.
Hawkeye1489 - Like I said above, I can't see this timelines version of Constantinople not being THE center of learning in the Christian world, with scholars from all over traveling to the city. With that kind of intellectual capital running around town, it'd only be natural that quite a few "familiar names" to us would end up in key positions--Aquinas as the Patriarch's assistant, Roger Bacon as a tutor to the Emperor, etc. St. Dominic was a tutor at one point as well (to Thomas II when he was a child). I also can't see all the influence on using reason and faith together merely glossing the surface--it would likel have a profound effect on Byzantine thought.
Tommy4ever - The event tree is similar, yes. And it has the potential to be damaging, but its not a killer in and of itself. We'll have to see if the tree fires, and if so, how Andie handles things...
Enewald - Anastasia hates von Franken because she thinks he had a role in Alexios' death--that, and she's still bitter she was foisted on an old man so soon after her beloved husband's death. In short-she thinks Albie is a spider, a dangerous one, that needs to be rooted out of his web and chased from the government...
KlavoHunter - If Segeo is taken alive, he won't be alive for long, that's for sure! Next update will reveal whether that happens or not...
Leviathan07 - I think the Byzantine standard of blinding and castration would play a role in it as well, possibly before breaking over the wheel. Drawing and quartering (the Chinese method) is also an option...
FlyingDutchie - Nope, Konstantinos, like most of the dynatoi, keeps a home in Konstantinopolis for when he needs to visit the capital, and for his representatives to live, host events, etc., in his absence (keep up the name while he's in the provinces)...
RGB - Interesting point. People are giving him space alone, but just because they are (for example, letting him go hunting with minimal escort), doesn't mean he'd recognize it as such... he is only twelve! And the space he's being given simply might not be enough to satisfy him. It remains to be seen if this is just a preteen/teen drive for rebellion of sorts that will fade as age and wisdom grace our your Emperor, or if its something more deeply seated that could grow and become a problem later on...
Update outline is done, and there'll probably be music with it. In the meantime, I had an idea for an interim, and I'd like to solicit some opinions on it. Basically, hte idea is to have a series of "What If" scenarios, with small descriptions of what could have happened if certain tumultuous events had gone slightly differently. I need help, however, narrowing the list down--which is where you, the readers, come in! I thought we'd run the same procedure as before, everyone makes a list of five, their number one choice at the top, followed by two, three, etc. Somewhere down the line, I'll post the interim with the five options that were the most popular.
The options are:
1) What if Demetrios Megas had died in the Cuman War?
2) What if Christophoros had inherited from the Megas "unfettered" (aka no Manuel)?
3) What if Manuel had come through his assassination attempt unscatched?
4) What if Basil had died at Menorca?
5) What if Basil had lived longer (aka to the age of the Megas, 65)?
6) What if David had inherited from Basil?
7) What if Heraklios' bastardy had been discovered?
8) What if Thomas I had died at Kirkuk?
9) What if the future Thomas II, not Antemios, had died in that fire?
10) What if Thomas II had died at Neapolis?
11) What if Thomas II hadn't been wounded at Neapolis?
12) What if Bardas had died before Gabriel's first march on Konstantinopolis (aka, what would've happened if Gabriel had succeeded his father immediately)?
13) What would've happened if post-Mongol victory Gabriel had marched on Konstantinopolis?
Siind - Exactly. Skepticism in CK doesn't lead to automatic excommunication down the line, there's just a threat of it.
Andie believes there is a God (hence the "I hate..." line), he just doesn't find God as honest and just as Roger Bacon. Even then, not liking God, he still can't bring himself to completely finish the phrase "I hate God." There are quite a few historians who would say that medieval cultural discourse was so saturated with religion that the concept of atheism as we understand it would be completely alien to someone from the Middle Ages. Kirsch27 - True on the non-Christian points (see Servius Magnus above). Andie doesn't disbelieve, but he's definitely questioning the "God is Good, God is Just" mantra. That in and of itself isn't a killer--so long as he keeps those views private, or spins them as merely a "Christian struggling with his faith," a classic trope that would provoke more pity than anger if it is properly used by the Emperor. Now, if he runs into the Hagia Sophia during service, screaming that God is a liar and a thief, then we'd be in Gabriel territory.
Laur - Should Andie survive into adulthood, there's a good chance he's going to accelerate the process already going (which some of you have been noting)--scholars and thinkers of great note congregating in Konstantinopolis. In this timeline, the city is the center of an all-powerful empire, that covers the traditional origins of the Renaissance, as well as extensive regions known for both Christian and Muslim scholastic thought. I can't see any way, other than an ultraconservative crackdown by the Emperor, that intellectuals wouldn't want to travel to Konstantinopolis...
Vesimir - In CK terms, IIRC he was getting military training, like half of the Komnenid Emperors (Nikolaios, Thomas I, and Thomas III being the exceptions I think)
armoristan - Probably not, unfortunately. Aionism would mean civil war and Andie's likely death...
Fulcrumvale - There's definitely the same dynamic, save Ioannis seems more like rough and tumble Vataczes than suave and debonair Rodrigo, and Cecilia has much more fire and spit than Sophie when she was young. Will they have the same trajectory, however?
asd21593 - You never know. I could be kind to him just to mess with you all.
Hawkeye1489 - Like I said above, I can't see this timelines version of Constantinople not being THE center of learning in the Christian world, with scholars from all over traveling to the city. With that kind of intellectual capital running around town, it'd only be natural that quite a few "familiar names" to us would end up in key positions--Aquinas as the Patriarch's assistant, Roger Bacon as a tutor to the Emperor, etc. St. Dominic was a tutor at one point as well (to Thomas II when he was a child). I also can't see all the influence on using reason and faith together merely glossing the surface--it would likel have a profound effect on Byzantine thought.
Tommy4ever - The event tree is similar, yes. And it has the potential to be damaging, but its not a killer in and of itself. We'll have to see if the tree fires, and if so, how Andie handles things...
Enewald - Anastasia hates von Franken because she thinks he had a role in Alexios' death--that, and she's still bitter she was foisted on an old man so soon after her beloved husband's death. In short-she thinks Albie is a spider, a dangerous one, that needs to be rooted out of his web and chased from the government...
KlavoHunter - If Segeo is taken alive, he won't be alive for long, that's for sure!
Next update will reveal whether that happens or not...Leviathan07 - I think the Byzantine standard of blinding and castration would play a role in it as well, possibly before breaking over the wheel. Drawing and quartering (the Chinese method) is also an option...
FlyingDutchie - Nope, Konstantinos, like most of the dynatoi, keeps a home in Konstantinopolis for when he needs to visit the capital, and for his representatives to live, host events, etc., in his absence (keep up the name while he's in the provinces)...
RGB - Interesting point. People are giving him space alone, but just because they are (for example, letting him go hunting with minimal escort), doesn't mean he'd recognize it as such... he is only twelve! And the space he's being given simply might not be enough to satisfy him. It remains to be seen if this is just a preteen/teen drive for rebellion of sorts that will fade as age and wisdom grace our your Emperor, or if its something more deeply seated that could grow and become a problem later on...
Update outline is done, and there'll probably be music with it. In the meantime, I had an idea for an interim, and I'd like to solicit some opinions on it. Basically, hte idea is to have a series of "What If" scenarios, with small descriptions of what could have happened if certain tumultuous events had gone slightly differently. I need help, however, narrowing the list down--which is where you, the readers, come in! I thought we'd run the same procedure as before, everyone makes a list of five, their number one choice at the top, followed by two, three, etc. Somewhere down the line, I'll post the interim with the five options that were the most popular.
The options are:
1) What if Demetrios Megas had died in the Cuman War?
2) What if Christophoros had inherited from the Megas "unfettered" (aka no Manuel)?
3) What if Manuel had come through his assassination attempt unscatched?
4) What if Basil had died at Menorca?
5) What if Basil had lived longer (aka to the age of the Megas, 65)?
6) What if David had inherited from Basil?
7) What if Heraklios' bastardy had been discovered?
8) What if Thomas I had died at Kirkuk?
9) What if the future Thomas II, not Antemios, had died in that fire?
10) What if Thomas II had died at Neapolis?
11) What if Thomas II hadn't been wounded at Neapolis?
12) What if Bardas had died before Gabriel's first march on Konstantinopolis (aka, what would've happened if Gabriel had succeeded his father immediately)?
13) What would've happened if post-Mongol victory Gabriel had marched on Konstantinopolis?
My votes:
1. - 6. Because a reign of David would be a huge upset, and perhaps the BIGGEST what-if in RA's history.
2. - 2. Because a reign of Christophoros just sounds interesting.
3. - 10. Because Thomas II really could've died there. How would things have changed?
4. - 13. Because a big Gabrieline civil war would just be cool to see.
5. - 1. Why not? What if RA had ended up entirely different?
1. - 6. Because a reign of David would be a huge upset, and perhaps the BIGGEST what-if in RA's history.
2. - 2. Because a reign of Christophoros just sounds interesting.
3. - 10. Because Thomas II really could've died there. How would things have changed?
4. - 13. Because a big Gabrieline civil war would just be cool to see.
5. - 1. Why not? What if RA had ended up entirely different?
4) What if Basil had died at Menorca?
WHY: No Western Empire! Very interesting where the story would go if attempts at going west were stymied. Certainly no Seyfullah.
6) What if David had inherited from Basil?
WHY: On the contrary, a more "Western" Empire, perhaps a nicer one; a more chivalric culture. Totally different story.
10) What if Thomas II had died at Neapolis?
WHY: I'd have liked to see your Rome deal with an external defeat for a change; plus I'm Mongol-biased.
13) What would've happened if post-Mongol victory Gabriel had marched on Konstantinopolis?
WHY: Matching tagmata vs. tagmata? Are you kidding me? I'd have loved to see that.
11) What if Thomas II hadn't been wounded at Neapolis?
WHY: A different reason from 10; A more active Thomas II may have stemmed some of that sneaky von Franken dominance. Maybe we'd get a culture of hands-on Emperors instead.
WHY: No Western Empire! Very interesting where the story would go if attempts at going west were stymied. Certainly no Seyfullah.
6) What if David had inherited from Basil?
WHY: On the contrary, a more "Western" Empire, perhaps a nicer one; a more chivalric culture. Totally different story.
10) What if Thomas II had died at Neapolis?
WHY: I'd have liked to see your Rome deal with an external defeat for a change; plus I'm Mongol-biased.
13) What would've happened if post-Mongol victory Gabriel had marched on Konstantinopolis?
WHY: Matching tagmata vs. tagmata? Are you kidding me? I'd have loved to see that.
11) What if Thomas II hadn't been wounded at Neapolis?
WHY: A different reason from 10; A more active Thomas II may have stemmed some of that sneaky von Franken dominance. Maybe we'd get a culture of hands-on Emperors instead.
6) What if David had inherited from Basil?
8) What if Thomas I had died at Kirkuk?
11) What if Thomas II hadn't been wounded at Neapolis?
3) What if Manuel had come through his assassination attempt unscatched?
4) What if Basil had died at Menorca?
I vote for these
8) What if Thomas I had died at Kirkuk?
11) What if Thomas II hadn't been wounded at Neapolis?
3) What if Manuel had come through his assassination attempt unscatched?
4) What if Basil had died at Menorca?
I vote for these
13) What would've happened if post-Mongol victory Gabriel had marched on Konstantinopolis?
12) What if Bardas had died before Gabriel's first march on Konstantinopolis
6) What if David had inherited from Basil?
9) What if the future Thomas II, not Antemios, had died in that fire?
4) What if Basil had died at Menorca?
12) What if Bardas had died before Gabriel's first march on Konstantinopolis
6) What if David had inherited from Basil?
9) What if the future Thomas II, not Antemios, had died in that fire?
4) What if Basil had died at Menorca?
1 - 6) What if David had inherited from Basil
2 - 4) What if Basil had died at Menorca
3 - 13) What if post-Mongol Gabriel had marched on Konstantinopolis
4 - 9) What if the future Thomas II, not Antemios, had died in that fire
5 - 1) What if Demetrios Megas had died in the Cuman War
2 - 4) What if Basil had died at Menorca
3 - 13) What if post-Mongol Gabriel had marched on Konstantinopolis
4 - 9) What if the future Thomas II, not Antemios, had died in that fire
5 - 1) What if Demetrios Megas had died in the Cuman War
1-13) What would've happened if post-Mongol victory Gabriel had marched on Konstantinopolis?
2-12) What if Bardas had died before Gabriel's first march on Konstantinopolis (aka, what would've happened if Gabriel had succeeded his father immediately)?
3-5) What if Basil had lived longer (aka to the age of the Megas, 65)?
4-6) What if David had inherited from Basil?
5-10) What if Thomas II had died at Neapolis?
2-12) What if Bardas had died before Gabriel's first march on Konstantinopolis (aka, what would've happened if Gabriel had succeeded his father immediately)?
3-5) What if Basil had lived longer (aka to the age of the Megas, 65)?
4-6) What if David had inherited from Basil?
5-10) What if Thomas II had died at Neapolis?
TOP1:13) What would've happened if post-Mongol victory Gabriel had marched on Konstantinopolis?
2: 4) What if Basil had died at Menorca?
3: 9) What if the future Thomas II, not Antemios, had died in that fire?
4: 6) What if David had inherited from Basil?
5: 7) What if Heraklios' bastardy had been discovered?
2: 4) What if Basil had died at Menorca?
3: 9) What if the future Thomas II, not Antemios, had died in that fire?
4: 6) What if David had inherited from Basil?
5: 7) What if Heraklios' bastardy had been discovered?
1) What if Manuel had come through his assassination attempt unscatched?
2) What would've happened if post-Mongol victory Gabriel had marched on Konstantinopolis?
3) What if Thomas II hadn't been wounded at Neapolis?
4) What if Thomas I had died at Kirkuk?
5) What if David had inherited from Basil?
And you mean Manuel had military training?!
2) What would've happened if post-Mongol victory Gabriel had marched on Konstantinopolis?
3) What if Thomas II hadn't been wounded at Neapolis?
4) What if Thomas I had died at Kirkuk?
5) What if David had inherited from Basil?
And you mean Manuel had military training?!
5). Basil always had been one of my favourites. Perhaps he could have smoothed over the succession crisis between David and Thomas. Probably by sending Thomas to govern Imeretia or something like that.
6). David always strook me as a combination of Basil and Manuel. A great fighter and leader of man combined with talents for the darker sides of statecraft. Sounded like an ideal Emperor to me.
8). Off all the Emperors I disliked Thomas I the most (his character, not the way he was portrayaled). Yet he kept the Empire together with an iron fist, and he was a great conqueror. Would a successor be able to keep the Turks at bay? Would the East and the West be united earlier?
9). No Thomas would probably mean no Aionios and no Albrecht von Franken either.
13). Everyone loves a good civil war.
6). David always strook me as a combination of Basil and Manuel. A great fighter and leader of man combined with talents for the darker sides of statecraft. Sounded like an ideal Emperor to me.
8). Off all the Emperors I disliked Thomas I the most (his character, not the way he was portrayaled). Yet he kept the Empire together with an iron fist, and he was a great conqueror. Would a successor be able to keep the Turks at bay? Would the East and the West be united earlier?
9). No Thomas would probably mean no Aionios and no Albrecht von Franken either.
13). Everyone loves a good civil war.
1: What if Manuel had come through his assassination attempt unscatched?
2: What if Christophoros had inherited from the Megas "unfettered" (aka no Manuel)?
3: What if David had inherited from Basil?
4: What if Basil had lived longer (aka to the age of the Megas, 65)?
5: What if Demetrios Megas had died in the Cuman War?
Although it would be cool to see the "unproven emperors" Christophoros and David, I really would like the most to see more scenes with Manuel.
2: What if Christophoros had inherited from the Megas "unfettered" (aka no Manuel)?
3: What if David had inherited from Basil?
4: What if Basil had lived longer (aka to the age of the Megas, 65)?
5: What if Demetrios Megas had died in the Cuman War?
Although it would be cool to see the "unproven emperors" Christophoros and David, I really would like the most to see more scenes with Manuel.
* Out of the shadows a dark figure slowly emerges, still half shrouded in darkness. It looks left, then right, making sure no one is near and after a moment of hesitation it moves forward, revealing the gentle, smiling face of a Forum Lurker *
Hello
I don't think I've said anything here since Mehtar was getting ready to fight the Mongols, but I have been following the story closely. This is my favorite AAR, and the only one I still follow. Someone said earlier that you should pursue career as a writer and I agree wholeheartedly. You are a fantastic writer and this is one of the best stories (or maybe this should already be called a novel? ) that I have ever had the pleasure of reading. Congratulations!
Now, my votes are:
2) What if Christophoros had inherited from the Megas "unfettered" (aka no Manuel)?
This would be a critical juncture in Roman history. With no Manuel there would be no Basil and EVERYTHING would be different.
6) What if David had inherited from Basil?
Another critical juncture David didn't seem to be the nicest of people if I remember correctly but I think he would have made a very good Emperor. It would have also left the Eastern and Western Empires united and there would have been no "Loony Toons" either.
5) What if Basil had lived longer (aka to the age of the Megas, 65)?
9) What if the future Thomas II, not Antemios, had died in that fire?
10) What if Thomas II had died at Neapolis?
It's a very interesting idea you had, putting a series of smaller "What ifs?" in the middle of an epic "What if?". Made me laugh a bit when I first read the post.
* With the message done he quickly scurries back into the shadows, anxious that he has stayed in the open too long and that someone might come around and spot him. *
Hello
I don't think I've said anything here since Mehtar was getting ready to fight the Mongols, but I have been following the story closely. This is my favorite AAR, and the only one I still follow
. Someone said earlier that you should pursue career as a writer and I agree wholeheartedly. You are a fantastic writer and this is one of the best stories (or maybe this should already be called a novel? ) that I have ever had the pleasure of reading. Congratulations! Now, my votes are:
2) What if Christophoros had inherited from the Megas "unfettered" (aka no Manuel)?
This would be a critical juncture in Roman history. With no Manuel there would be no Basil and EVERYTHING would be different.
6) What if David had inherited from Basil?
Another critical juncture David didn't seem to be the nicest of people if I remember correctly but I think he would have made a very good Emperor. It would have also left the Eastern and Western Empires united and there would have been no "Loony Toons" either.
5) What if Basil had lived longer (aka to the age of the Megas, 65)?
9) What if the future Thomas II, not Antemios, had died in that fire?
10) What if Thomas II had died at Neapolis?
It's a very interesting idea you had, putting a series of smaller "What ifs?" in the middle of an epic "What if?"
. Made me laugh a bit when I first read the post. * With the message done he quickly scurries back into the shadows, anxious that he has stayed in the open too long and that someone might come around and spot him. *
I would like to throw another idea in your theoretical stew and that is "what would have happened if Thomas II didn't die at Mecca?". That's always been an interesting theory in my mind. Would the empire have remained more stable or collapsed sooner? Would Thomas II allowed Andronikos to inherit once he reaches old age? Etc.
Still, I will choose a few ideas.
Still, I will choose a few ideas.
Just to give everyone an idea of how the what ifs will look, I've prepared a bonus one: What if Basil and Genghis Khan met on the battlefield? I consider this a separate question from #5, chiefly because Basil living to 65 would have him dying in 1212, before the Mongol's arrival on the European stage, and concerns itself more with the succession and future trajectory of the Empire beyond the Mongols. This focuses solely on given a Mongol invasion as took place in the story, what would transpire, and what would the general outcome be...
Please keep submitting your requests, and I'll do a final tally next Wednesday night and announce what the final 5 choices were...
Please keep submitting your requests, and I'll do a final tally next Wednesday night and announce what the final 5 choices were...
Nice little 'what if' update there. I was initially quite sceptical about this idea but I quite like it now. Although I would prefer actual updates ....
None the less any of these will atleast satiate me until full updates can be made
None the less any of these will atleast satiate me until full updates can be made
