Rome AARisen - a Byzantine AAR

[Nehekara]

When the Turks showed up, I half expected them to join the Mongols!
But then there's the whole Glorious Vengeance thing and all...
Anyway, the end of the Eternal War is sure to stir the balance of power up real good. Can Albrecht and his retinue protect the Thomasine Komnenids from the victorious Gabriel?

Looking forward to future updates!
(Oh, will we see more of Anthony Comnyn and his exciting adventures in the great North?)

[Siind]

Awesome update! I gotta say, I dont think Gabriel was very wise to go with Gaugamela style tactics against an enemy as infernally flexible as the mongols, but (since the mongols apparently havent read their Alexander) it all worked out in the end. Too bad for poor Alexios that he's propperly gonna be saddeled with the credit for killing Hulagu, I doubt that's gonna help his prospects for a long life.
As for Altani somehow I think she's gonna come out on top, she seems like that kind of a girl, maybe we gonna see a Nestorian Mughal empire a few centuries ahead of schedule?

Ok I know Im a busybody, but I just cant resist giving a go at these questions, sorry!

And how could the archers open fire so early?

The archers open fire at 300 yards, thats a bit outside the normal range for longbows using full up war-arrows, but the romans had this lovely little thing called a "sôlênarion" its basically a wooden tube used, with a bow, to fire small darts, it supposedly has a very long range. Theres no reason why they shouldn't have up-sized them to fit with a longbow, infact they almost certainly would have. Heres a pic if your interested: http://www.livinghistory.co.uk/homep...mpany/Dart.jpg

And how come the the flanking attempt of the Mongols was unsuccessful?

Because the romans refused their flank , not once but twice. Getting around that in the face of opposition isn't very easy at all, and more to the point it isnt quick, especially given that the roman infantry hit the mongols before they were in position.

And are the Mongol archers not superior to Roman cavalry?
The Mongols just need to keep a bit of distance to the enemy cavalry in order to kill them, while the Romans have to use melee.

Well BT did mention that the mongol army isnt excatly their A list, still your right, and if you notice it, the romans dont win any of the cavalry fights, except the one where the mongol heavy cavalry gets itself outflanked by the turks. The other fights arn't described, but we can assume that the mongols fall back only once its clear that the fight in the center is lost. Also the mongols are outnumbered.

[FlyingDutchie]

Great battle, really caught the suspense. Also, guess the Turcomans will return one way or the other. Speaking of the Mongols, hows Kublai?

And please stop Gabriel from opposing Albrecht and Alexios. I prefer effective men above gloryhounds...

[Deamon]

Holy smokes that was some update.

Alexios got some crazy mongol chick after him this is going to be fun.

[Hawkeye1489]

Good show as always BT. That update was EPIC! I am really starting to become a fan of our young Rigas ton Mesoptamion. Alexios is just another example of why the Thomasine line needs to be quickly swept under the rug for the Edessan Branch of the Komenids. Either way, excellent update and I shall be waiting for more of your masterpiece.

~Hawk

[armonistan]

That was so EPIC!

Greeks and Turks working together...how heartwarming!

Second

Very nice scene BT and thank you for not spilting the battle .

But my favorite part was where the Greeks and Turks came togther
(it almost makes up for our timeline )

[RGB]

Since it's my custom to pay attention to anything but the centrepiece, here's what I noticed:

1. Thus the hordes really splinter. I should go through your updates to make a mongol family tree, lest I get confused now.

2. Alexios showed himself well; will Gabriel feel threatened?

[Ksim3000]

Well BT, I have to say, that update certainly topped the cake for me! I really did get quite emotional during that battle and I did feel for Altani after she discovers that Hulagu has been killed. But I am glad that the Romans have had their first "real victory" against the Mongols (well it was mainly the Turks that saved the day! Go figure) after a string of Mongolian victories.

I did get emotional a bit when Alexios recalls never hearing the chant "Allah!" aside from in tales of Demetrious and Basil. That hit home to me - we've come along way since the early days. I guess that final "strike" by Sulieman II was "the last hurrah" in a way for the Turks.

Aside from my reviews, looks like I best get onto speculation now and questions!

Well, Gabriel is beginning to show his "true" colours in a way. No longer just the pompous ass but also an insane one. I really do feel had Sulieman not saved the day, Gabriel would have been slaughtered. But I could be wrong on that. It was an interesting plan that did confuse the enemy but also a fool hardy one. It would be kind of amusing if Gabriel saw himself as some kind of "God" of war that is indestructible eh? After all, the guy hasn't experianced any "real" defeats like his father has done. Its been pretty much victory after victory.

Which in turn leads into good favour with the army. It'll be interesting if Gabriel does march on Constantinople and removes Von Franken. We shall see.

I do like Alexios although in all fairness, he's not got that same "martial" streak such as Thomas II or Gabriel. Romanion needs good commanders in order to keep the Mongols at bay. They maybe down at the moment but they'll be back.

It'll be interesting to see what happens with Thomas III. I have a bad feeling that guy is going to trump all the other Thomases being complete bat s*it insane. Thomas IV shows some promise however as not going the way of the other three....

Btw I like the style you did previously for getting bits of story out of the way. I think its a good idea for when you need to move along with the plot.

Now I leave you with the usual love of your update and hope you get the next one out soon!

It'd be great if you ever got this published btw. Its more then just a simple AAR. Its something along the lines of Peter Jackson's "Lord of the Rings" in all fairness. An epic at that!

[Tommy4ever]

It'd be great if you ever got this published btw. Its more then just a simple AAR. Its something along the lines of Peter Jackson's "Lord of the Rings" in all fairness. An epic at that!

I was thinking that if you went back and did a bit of editing this could make an entire series of short books.

I have to say that I think they'd do alright. This is certainly more entertaining and better written than alot of the stuff you get on book shelves. Then again it would be very, very niche.

[Ksim3000]

I was thinking that if you went back and did a bit of editing this could make an entire series of short books.

I have to say that I think they'd do alright. This is certainly more entertaining and better written than alot of the stuff you get on book shelves. Then again it would be very, very niche.

I dunno really. It could have a similar sort of appeal such as HBO's series "Rome" and other historical series suited for the mainstream. After all, love, plots and wars would certainly attract a large viewing audience.

Actually, the series could very well be akin to something along the lines of Frank Herbert's "Dune". Its definitely got potential either way.

[Vesimir]

And this is just the first part!

I wonder if it would suprass the LOTR trilogy in pages... (If the AAR will go all the way to HoI of course.)

[Leviathan07]

Wow that was an epic battle!!! I was rooting for the Mongols, though

What's going to happen to the Turks now that the Mongol threat is gone? Sentimental reasons say they should be kept around - but on the other hand, Macchiavellan politics dictate that Suleiman and his last Mohicans, errr, Seljuks must be quietly strangled in their bathtubs lest Suleiman tries to reclaim his lost Sultanate. He only has a few thousand warriors left, but Persia is a large country and he might rally a large following. "Forced resettlement" i.e. exile far from Persia could be a palatable and more humane alternative. Maybe in the Egyptian deserts or in Mauretania... But they can't stay in Persia...

Also I am looking forward to the eventual showdown between the good Komnenids (Alexios), the two evil brothers and the spider von Franken in Constantinopolis...

[The_Archduke]

I want the Thomasine line to be swept away as much as anyone, but I don't think the Edessan Komnenids are the best candidates for the throne. The Davidic Komnenids in Spain have been uniformly awesome and are descended from Basil and Manuel. Clearly Nikephorus should rule over a unified Romanion. Gabriel has clearly started slipping into madness... perhaps it is time for Nikephorus to strike. I never believed him when he told Gabriel that he wasn't interested in the east.

[Hawkeye1489]

Well, the way things are developing (at least in the story) we may have it both ways. With Alexios' heirs the possible successors to the Spanish Komenids, an Edessan-Spanish dynasty would instantly rival the Thomasine dynasty, if not surpass them.

[General_BT]

The Death of Prince Alexios Komnenos
Young Demetrios' First Days
Meeting the Spiders
In the Kappadokian Hinterland
A Crossroads
The War Against Tripoli
Imperial Incompetence
The Start of the Komnenid Rebellion
Trapped Before the Walls
A Deal with the Devil



An Empire Gained, A Loved One Lost
The Arpad Princess
The Snake Strikes
A Damning Letter
The Empire Expands - Battle of Megiddo
MAP - Eastern Mediterranean in 1100 A.D.
The Hashashin and the Sultan
A Brilliant Young Mind



The Cyrenaican Gambit
The Turkish Storm
Brothers in Arms
The Daring Plan
War at Home and Abroad
Prepartions with the Normans
Boots on the Wind
The Battle of Mount Tabor
Stalemate
A Victory Soured by Loss



INTERIM #1 - Byzantine Mercenaries
INTERIM #1 - Byzantine Cavalry
INTERIM #1 - Byzantine Infantry
Death Roosts in the Great Palace
Recovery, Exile and the End
Exile and the Rise of Christophoros
The Cuman War
Nikolaios' Price
MAP - Europe, North Africa and the Middle East - 1110 AD



The Mistress of Spiders
Secrets Revealed
Spiders Eat Their Kin
Babies Can Break Plots
The Dark Price of Vengeance
Komnenid Family Tree #1
The Rus Come to Visit
The End of a Lion
MAP - Komnenid Family Holdings and the Empire in 1135 AD



Sorting Out the Succession
Power and Beni Halal
The New Komnenid Prince
The Norman's Gambit
Two Masters Play Their Game
Plots and Counterplots
Wisdom Versus Youth
The Stage is Set
Battle of Carthage
Salt and Water



An Embassy to Rome
MAP - The Eastern Med in 1141 AD
Bishops and Dukes
MAP - Italy in 1141
Papal Concerns
Lovers and Saints
The Way is Cleared
MAP - the Romanoi invasion of Italy
Bitter Enemies and Bedmates
Battle of Cannae
The Komnenid Family Tree #2
Some Battles Need No Swords



Young Princes, Old Plots
New Friends
Wolves of All Kinds
Fire and Ice
A History Lesson
MAP - A Campaign In Short
Picking Up the Pieces
Sulieman the Wise
Manuel Lurches West
INTERIM - If Emperors Were Gamers...
A Tale of Popes and Emperors
The Awkwardness of Youth
INTERIM - Art According to Rodrigo Jimenez
The Hunt
MAP - Europe, North Africa and West Asia in 1161



The Sultan Moves + INTERIM - Celebration!
The Fields of Tell Bashir
The Crisis
INTERIM - A Baby Born on the Steppe
INTERIM - Anatomy of a Defeat
The Secrets Inside Us
Father And Son Unite
Komnenid Family Tree #3
Plans and Dreams
INTERIM - the Apulian Army
The Master Arises
The Marches of Basil - Part One
A Stinging Defeat
The Marches of Basil - Part Two
Dreams of an Empire
Clash of Kings
The End of Zeno Komnenos
An Era Ends

[General_BT]

A Saintly Dream?
When in Rome...
Menorca
INTERIM - A Letter
Double Agents
The Spanish Assault
INTERIM - The Next Generation: Dramatis Personae
Battle of Niebla
Drogo Victorious?
Snakes Turned Out
INTERIM - The Men Who Were Kaisar
A Momentous Decision
INTERIM - The Themes of the Empire
Challenges in the Hippodrome
Imperial Rivalries



Mehtar's Dilemma
Mehtar and Thomas
Spain Divided
INTERIM - the birth of Alexios
Jealousy Comes Forth
By Such Accidents, History is Made
Momentous Decisions and Secrets
INTERIM - Themes of the Levant
David and Thomas
Heraklios
Mehtar Tightens the Noose
Quiet End to a Lion


Coronations of Blood
INTERIM - The Rise of Mali
The Plot Revealed
Christina of Dau
The Turkish War, and the Battle of Kirkuk
INTERIM - ACA Edition, The Rise of Genghis Khan
Fallout
Seduction
Lesbos
INTERIM - Great Houses of the Empire #1
INTERIM - Great Houses of the Empire #2
A Coronation in Barcelona
Retribution
Retaliation
Rome
Death and Rescue
Terror in Germany, Plotting at Home
Flames of Discord
Cry Havoc
INTERIM - The World in 1200


The Long Road to Hell
The Battle of Messina (LONG)
Christina's Gambit
The Road to Zaragoza
Two Brothers Come Circle
Setbacks and Sortmark
Demons and Angels
The Unraveling of Things
INTERIM - Business Problems East
The Crow's Question
Cleaning Up
A Concordat
The Marches of Thomas II




At Mount Tabor
A Frontier Meeting
INTERIM -- Thomasine Imperial Army #1
INTERIM-- Thomasine Imperial Army #2
Tabriz
Unhappiness in the Ranks
The Storm Breaks
An Overture to Sortmark
Plots and Counterplots
The Battle of Yaik
INTERIM - Imperial thematakoi
Tmutarakan and the Kazakh Steppe
The Clash of Empires
Battle of Neapolis Part I
Battle of Neapolis Part II
Battle of Neapolis Conclusion



Snakes of the Throne--the Stage is Set
Chaos and War
Alexios, Ferdows and Arnaud
Remnants and Blood
Mount Hymettus, According to a Student
Gabriel & Thomas
Oh no, not again...
A Partnership...
Gabriel's Oasis
Carthage and Plots
INTERIM - The Spanish Empire
Eleutherios
The Gang of Three




A Tragic Birth
Battle of Rayy
Distrust
INTERIM - Religion
The Hejaz and a Hohenstaufen
A Sharif's Lament
The Walls of Mecca
Tides of Woe
A Blow to the Head
End of an Era


HALFWAY INTERIM
The State of Western Europe
The State of the Middle East
The State of the Russias
The State of Central/Northern Europe
Some Music, and the Future?

[General_BT]

Hawkeye1489 – If little Andronikos inherits, that is exactly what’ll happen… he’ll have Spanish Komnenid blood from his mother and Edessan from his father. But that’s assuming Nikephoros doesn’t have an heir and the baby Andronikos lives…

The_Archduke – Undoubtedly that’s long-term probably in the back of Nikephoros’ mind…

Leviathan07 – That’s an interesting question. In normal peacetime, the Turks would either be marginalized (by making deals with their neighbors to keep them in line), or they would be “moved.” However, it’s probable that Gabriel’s mind isn’t focused on something like that, he’s instead thinking of Konstantinopolis. We’ll have to see where the Turks end up in all this. The lands they currently have are hardly a power-base, but they’re still a potential source for trouble in the future…

Vesimir – HOI? I have no idea if it’d go that far… I’m even thinking on what will happen after EU3 yet! What to do next’ll probably come up once we get to 1800 or so lol. And if Gabriel officially tries to establish a Christian/Muslim church, at least now,, don’t be surprised if the Orthodox Church would demand his removal…

Ksim3000 – Thanks for the huge vote of confidence! Unfortunately, the series won’t ever be published, because it’s already been published (posted on the internet, and per forum rules, technically Paradox property). However, I will say I’m slowly fiddling with my own writing on the sidelines. I’ve got the rough sketch of a story laying around, can’t say too much because, once again, of the publishing, etc. If I ever get time to finish it, and if it ever gets picked up, believe me, I think you all would love it though!

As for Gabby… is he insane, or just ridiculously casual in how he gambles? Someone truly insane would’ve have avoided battle with the Mongols for that long, but someone cautious wouldn’t have launched an infantry attack into the dust like he did. Hmm…

Tommy4ever – In terms of length, definitely. Its over 1000 pages in Word. As for the Mongols religiously, they’re going to be interesting in a hundred years!

RGB – I like your custom!

1) Well, here’s a brief, off the top of my head summary. Genghis in this timeline had six sons – Jochi, Ogedei, Chagatai, Tolui, Hulagu and Batu. Each got their own ulus on daddy’s death, and Ogedei became Great Khan. Jochi tried to overthrow Ogedei, got killed, and his ulus went to Batu. Ogedei had two sons, Berke and Ariq Boke, the latter of which is now Great Khan. Hulagu had two sons, Guyuk and Mongke, as well as Altani. Both Guyuk and Mongke predeceased their father, so the fate of Hulagu’s ulus (India and Central Asia) is up in the air. The other sons of Genghis had kids too, but they haven’t been categorized as they haven’t been relevant to the story yet…

2) Gabriel it’s safe to say already feels threatened by Alexios..

armoristan – I came this close to splitting the battle, and in the end, the main reason I didn’t was because I was tired and didn’t want to mess with splitting the music… so I went ahead and wrote the rest!

Deamon – Crazy Mongol chick bent on vengeance. Can’t forget the last part. And Altani’s not too crazy… compared with the Komnenids, at least!

FlyingDutchie – Kublai hasn’t shown up in the story. Yet. There’ll probably be at least a cameo for him down the line though…

Siind – First, that solenarion is amazing… I had no idea the Romans had access to such a piece of tech! Only problem I can see with it is that a dart still wouldn’t have the hitting power of an arrow, let alone a crossbow bolt. And thanks for the effort of replying to the reply as well… answers were spot on!

Nenekhara – Oh definitely. Gabriel’s got an army, but one that’s tired and wants to go home. Albrecht has his guile, while Nikephoros has his riches. Stage’s set for something big to happen. As for Andrew Comnyn, you’ll have to ask AP what he’s got in store for him!

Kirsch27 – Just cause I describe the sword in detail doesn’t mean Alexios is the one that ends up making it famous. Swords are heirlooms, and often stripped from the dead and become the heirlooms of their new owners…

TC Pilot – Oh, I don’t know who you’re talking about. And see? There’s a Bataczes in this world that isn’t a ruffian villain! :-p

Servius Magnus – Well, there was a Roman victory of the Mongols, but as the Romans are wont to do, that doesn’t necessarily spell the end of Roman versus Roman violence…

Fulcrumvale – Indeed. 3/4ths of the Mongol army escaped, Altani and Tokhtamysh are still alive to lead it. Altani as Khatun of the entire Empire? It’d take some Komnenid scale plotting on her part to do that… but the Mongol Empire isn’t immune to deviousness!

Cecasander – Kinda? The Turks completely saved the Romans at Amol! In the end, the Megaloprepis’s prophecy came true—the Turks did save Romanion. For now, at least… As for the Nestorians as a bridge, not necessarily between Christianity and Islam—Nestorians might be considered heretical by the Orthodox, but they are considered heathen by the Muslims, as they still believe in the divinity of Jesus. A better bridge they once served was between Christianity and Zoroastrianism possibly… at least according to their fellow Christians…

Nikolai – Nope, the first scene was from before the battle…

Qorten - Altani definitely has a new motivation in life, and vengeance… well…

von Sachsen – Hahaha! Knew someone would catch the rebel yell! For some reason whenever I heard the Soldier’s Chant I heard in my head people yelling the rebel yell over it. So I mixed it together that way!

asd21593 – Almost makes up for how much they dislike each other in our timeline!

Enewald – The archers opening fire that early was a medieval tactic—if you line up enough bowmen and tell them to shoot as far as they can in that direction, some arrows are going to hit targets. Gabriel’s idea wasn’t necessarily to cause casualties amongst the enemy, but to sow confusion. In the dust and poor visibility, there’s no way the archers could have aimed… so if arrows, even a few, are raining into the Mongol levy ranks, that’s bound to confuse them some. The Romans, as Siind pointed out, lost every cavalry battle save the Turkish surprise near the end… the Romans had far greater numbers, but the Mongol cavalry was far better, despite being outnumbered 4 to 1…


Well, you all might not have noticed (yet), but I just finished my big project for the first part of the week--redoing the table contents structure for the AAR, including lots of pretty new chapter pictures. Yes, I was bored, and yes, Photoshop was there to entertain me. I'm hoping the new layout is more visually appealing, and also cuts down the length of that poor page in the Inkwell!

[Leviathan07]

Wow that table of contents must have been a lot of work!! Amazing, I just spent half an hour browsing the older chapters.

I noticed there once was an update on mercenaries of the Byzantine Empire, from the times of the Megas. Pechenegs and peoples of the Vardar valley (Slavic Macedonia) were mentioned as more or less independent peoples. But that was when their lands were at the frontier of the empire... how have they fared in now? Vardar valley is by now deep inside the empire. I imagine the locals would no longer be independent... some chapters mentioned that the Balkans are nowadays in the hand of the Greek nobility. (Well connected magnates who turned the locals into peons I suppose...)

What is, generally speaking, the level of social and personal freedom in the Empire? My history books mention how since the time of Diocletian Roman Emperors often struggled to keep a balance between the powerful magnates who held sway in imperial politics, and the small holding farmers who paid most of the taxes and supplied (in good times) the manpower for the armies. The empire not being much of a democracy, the little man usually had no voice and under distracted administrations the magnates always found ways to buy local offices and generally screw the little man over as much as possible. This was mentioned as leading to phenomena of decline like the decay of the theme system (magnates buying up the soldiers' land and settling it with peons despite regulations saying soldiers' lands may not be sold), dwindling tax revenues due to magnates and the church being ruthless tax dodgers, as well as the general disorder and anarchy prior to the 4th crusade.

So where does Byzantium stand in this story? The Thomasine bureaucracy seems more distracted now than ever before, how close are the magnates to their dream of turning the Empire into a feudal anarchy?

[RGB]

I like the TOC.

Toqtamysh isn't a Chingizid, of course, but Orda-noyon was a prince IIRC. Not a very smart one, but a prince.

Altani's ulus is in trouble! Without a Chigizid male her legitimacy is all shot, Toqtamysh or no. Does she have a baby cousin to kidnap and rule in his name? 'Cause that would really help in the short term.

Unless you really plan on her going all Daenerys, but in that case she'd better have dragons.

[Leviathan07]

By the way, BT, if you want to get your intellectual property back you could always go and remove the story from this board by editing each update post and deleting the text. Theoretically Pdox retains ownership of everything they have backed up in their data base, but in practice they are not going to archive it all and will probably not hassle you ever. So for all intents and purposes you would be able to remove it from their reach.

Ofc that would mean we can't read it here any more o

But if you want to turn this into something bigger than an internet hobby that's totally your call. I would think about it if I were you. I would buy your book