Tech Tree

[Foxbat]

I want to add one more SSN model, exclusive for USSR, researchable through Naval doctrines - Alfa class submarine, possibly available through events.
Why I want to include it? Because it was rather big achievement for naval technologies at the time it was produced and if I'm not mistaken, US wasn't unable to come up with something similar in terms of speed and automatisation.
What do you think? Yes or no?

[Dogget]

Yes, but what will be the chance this unbalance the game??

[Kretoxian]

I want to add one more SSN model, exclusive for USSR, researchable through Naval doctrines - Alfa class submarine, possibly available through events.
Why I want to include it? Because it was rather big achievement for naval technologies at the time it was produced and if I'm not mistaken, US wasn't unable to come up with something similar in terms of speed and automatisation.
What do you think? Yes or no?

Ok for me if the model list don't get (more) messed up.

Edit: And suggest some statistics for them because i'm going to need help with the naval unit's statistics.

[Foxbat]

Ok for me if the model list don't get (more) messed up.
Edit: And suggest some statistics for them because i'm going to need help with the naval unit's statistics.

It will require one new model: MODEL_29_12, to be added, that's all(and ofcourse events or something). As for statistics, I'll finish gathering soviet naval names and will take care of it, mkay?

Yes, but what will be the chance this unbalance the game??

How it will unbalance game?

[Kretoxian]

It will require one new model: MODEL_29_12, to be added, that's all(and ofcourse events or something). As for statistics, I'll finish gathering soviet naval names and will take care of it, mkay?

Oh ok, take your time.

[Foxbat]

Update for naval doctrines tech tree:

Brown Water Navy(dactivates CG, CGN, DD, CV, CVL, SSN)
 |
 +-> Littoral Surface Ship Focus(deactivates SLSF)
 +--> Submersible Littoral Ship Focus(deactivates LSSF)
 V
 50's Brown Water Navy(+5 SS/FRG MIN positioning +10 SS/FRG MAX positioning)
 |
 +-+-> 50's Littoral Frigates(+5 FRG MIN posit. +5 FRG MAX posit. -1000 range, +10 Morale)
 | +-> 50's Littoral Submarines(+5 SS MIN posit. +5 SS MAX posit. -1000 range, +10 Morale)
 V
 60's Brown Water Navy(+5 SS/FRG MIN positioning +10 SS/FRG MAX positioning)
 |
 +-+-> 60's Littoral Frigates(+5 FRG MIN posit. +5 FRG MAX posit. -500 range, +10 Morale)
 | +-> 60's Littoral Submarines(+5 SS MIN posit. +5 SS MAX posit. -500 range, +10 Morale)
 V
 70's Brown Water Navy(+5 SS/FRG MIN positioning +10 SS/FRG MAX positioning)
 |
 +-+-> 70's Littoral Frigates(+5 FRG MIN posit. +5 FRG MAX posit. -500 range, +10 Morale)
 | +-> 70's Littoral Submarines(+5 SS MIN posit. +5 SS MAX posit. -500 range, +10 Morale)
 V
 80's Brown Water Navy(+5 SS/FRG MIN positioning +10 SS/FRG MAX positioning)
 |
 +-+-> 80's Littoral Frigates(+5 FRG MIN posit. +5 FRG MAX posit. -500 range, +10 Morale)
 | +-> 80's Littoral Submarines(+5 SS MIN posit. +5 SS MAX posit. -500 range, +10 Morale)
 +-+
 | V
 | 90's Brown Water Navy(+5 SS/FRG MIN positioning +10 SS/FRG MAX positioning)
 |  |
 |  +-+-> 90's Littoral Frigates(+5 FRG MIN posit. +5 FRG MAX posit. -500 range, +10 Morale)
 |    +-> 90's Littoral Submarines(+5 SS MIN posit. +5 SS MAX posit. -500 range, +10 Morale)
 V
 Green Water Navy(activates DD, +25 DD MIN posit. +50 DD MAX posit., FRG/SS +2000 range, -20 Morale)

As always, comments and suggestions are more than welcomed.

P.S. I want to know, will we use off-map countries annexation for stats update on units? Because without it, all those range/stats improvement techs won't work.

[Kretoxian]

P.S. I want to know, will we use off-map countries annexation for stats update on units? Because without it, all those range/stats improvement techs won't work.

Nice techs, nice ideas.

It would be nice to do it, unfortunately i don't know how to make it

[The Great Duck]

Well,I think it would basically be 2 off-map countries like UN that would have AI events for annexing and releasing each other every few months.

[Foxbat]

It would be nice to do it, unfortunately i don't know how to make it

Well, both mod33 and Mod34 have this system and it works nicely. Maybe we can ask them to help us with it?
Basically, there should be two off-map countries(like UN in our mod), for example System and Update. Each two month System annexes Update via event and each two month Update is liberated via event.
So it works like this:
February 1st, 1955 -> System annexes Update
March 1st, 1955 -> Update is liberated from System
April 1st, 1955 -> System annexes Update
May 1st, 1955 -> Update is liberated from System
...

EDIT: doh, too slow

[Foxbat]

Blue water doctrine sub-branches(each one have additional two sub-branches):

+--------------------------------+
|Blue Water Navy                 |--------->[Nuclear navy techs]
| *Deactivates Brown Water Navy  |
| *+20 Max Org                   |
| *+20 Morale                    |--------->[Amphibious Assault techs]
+--------------------------------+
 |
 |      +-----------------------------------------+
 +----->|Carrier Warfare Focus                    |--->[Carrier Strike Force]
 |      | *Deactivates Surface Combat Group Focus |
 |      | *Deactivates Submarine Combat Focus     |
 |      | *+20 Max Org                            |
 |      | *+10 Morale                             |
 |      | *CV production cost -2 IC               |
 |      | *CVL production cost -1.5 IC            |
 |      | *DD production cost -0.8 IC             |
 |      | *CV production time -42 days            |
 |      | *CVL production time -25 days           |
 |      | *DD production time -15 days            |--->[Carrier Support Role]
 |      +-----------------------------------------+
 |
 |      +-----------------------------------------+
 +----->|Surface Combat Group Focus               |--->[Capital Ship Focus]
 |      | *Deactivates Carrier Warfare Focus      |
 |      | *Deactivates Submarine Combat Focus     |
 |      | *+15 Max Org                            |
 |      | *+15 Morale                             |
 |      | *CG/CGN production cost -1.2 IC         |
 |      | *DD production cost -0.8 IC             |
 |      | *FRG production cost -0.5 IC            |
 |      | *CG/CGN production time -20 days        |
 |      | *DD production time -15 days            |
 |      | *FRG production time -10 days           |--->[Support Ship Focus]
 |      +-----------------------------------------+
 |
 |      +-----------------------------------------+
 +----->|Submarine Combat and Support Focus       |--->[Sealine Interdiction]
        | *Deactivates Carrier Warfare Focus      |
        | *Deactivates Surface Combat Group Focus |
        | *+10 Max Org                            |
        | *+20 Morale                             |
        | *DD production cost -0.8 IC             |
        | *SS production cost -0.4 IC             |
        | *FRG production cost -0.5 IC            |        
        | *DD production time -15 days            |
        | *SS production time -12 days            |
        | *FRG production time -10 days           |--->[Decisive Interdiction]
        +-----------------------------------------+

Sub-branches:
Carrier strike force will provide bonuses for CV/CVN and DD/FRG. Also allows construction of SSN. (USA doctrine branch)
Carrier Support Role will provide bonuses for CVL and DD/FRG. Later allows to produce SSN(70's - Future) and CVN(90's - Future models) (UK/France doctrine branch)
Capital Ship Focus will provide bonuses for CG and DD/FRG. Later will merge into Brown Water Doctrine (Swedish navy)
Support Ship Focus will provide bonuses to DD and FRG. Later will merge with Sealine Interdiction. (PLA navy)
Sealine Interdiction will provide bonuses for SS and FRG. Great bonuses to convoy raiding efficiency. Later will merge with Support Ship Focus and allow production of SSN
Decisive Interdiction initially provides mediocre bonuses to SS/DD/CG. After invention of SSN, doctrine shifts to SSN/SSGN and DD/FRG focus. Allows production of CVS/CVL(60's - 70's) and later allows production of CV and BCGN. (Soviet doctrine branch)

[Foxbat]

Carrier Warfare Focus Sub-branches:

                                   +-------------------+
                                   |  Carrier Warfare  |
                                   +---------+---------+
                                             |
                         +-------------------+----------------+
                         V                                    V
+--------------+  +--------------+  +--------------+  +--------------+  +--------------+
|50's CG focus |<-|50's CTF focus|->|50's SSN focus|  |50's CVL focus|->|50's Escort f.|<-[Surface combat group]
+--------------+  +------+-------+  +--------------+  +-------+------+  +--------------+
                         |                  +-----------------+                        
                         |                  V                 |                         
                         |          +--------------+          |
                         |          |50's SS focus |          |
                         |          +--------------+          |
                         V                                    V
+--------------+  +--------------+  +--------------+  +--------------+  +--------------+
|60's CGN focus|<-|60's CTF focus|->|60's SSN focus|<-|60's CVL focus|->|60's Escort f.|<-[Surface combat group]
+--------------+  +------+-------+  +--------------+  +-------+------+  +--------------+
                         V                                    V
+--------------+  +--------------+  +--------------+  +--------------+  +--------------+
|70's CGN focus|<-|70's CTF focus|->|70's SSN focus|<-|70's CVL focus|->|70's Escort f.|<-[Surface combat group]
+--------------+  +------+-------+  +--------------+  +-------+------+  +--------------+
                         V                                    V
+--------------+  +--------------+  +--------------+  +--------------+  +--------------+
|80's CGN focus|<-|80's CTF focus|->|80's SSN focus|<-|80's CVL focus|->|80's Escort f.|<-[Surface combat group]
+--------------+  +------+-------+  +--------------+  +-------+------+  +--------------+
                         V                                    V
+--------------+  +--------------+  +--------------+  +--------------+  +--------------+
|90's CGN focus|<-|90's CTF focus|->|90's SSN focus|<-|90's CVL focus|->|90's Escort f.|<-[Surface combat group]
+--------------+  +------+-------+  +--------------+  +-------+------+  +--------------+
                         V                                    V
+--------------+  +--------------+  +--------------+  +--------------+  +--------------+
|  Future CGN  |<-|  Future CTF  |->|  Future SSN  |<-|  Future CVL  |->|Future Escorts|<-[Surface combat group]
+--------------+  +------+-------+  +--------------+  +-------+------+  +--------------+
                         V                                    V
                  +--------------+                    +--------------+
                  |Litttoral FRG |                    |  Future CTF  |
                  +--------------+                    +--------------+

[Foxbat]

Surface combat group branch(note that I have reduced amount of sub-branches to one):

                                        +-------------------+
                                        |   Surface Group   |
                                        +---------+---------+
                                                  |
                                                  V
                 +-------------------+  +-------------------+  +-------------------+
[Carrier Focus]->| 50's Escort Focus |<-|50's Surface Group |->|   50's SS Focus   |<-[Submarine Focus]
                 +-------------------+  +---------+---------+  +-------------------+
                                                  V
                 +-------------------+  +-------------------+  +-------------------+
[Carrier Focus]->| 60's Escort Focus |<-|60's Surface Group |->|   60's SS Focus   |<-[Submarine Focus]
                 +-------------------+  +---------+---------+  +-------------------+
                                                  V
                 +-------------------+  +-------------------+  +-------------------+
[Carrier Focus]->| 70's Escort Focus |<-|70's Surface Group |->|   70's SS Focus   |<-[Submarine Focus]
                 +-------------------+  +---------+---------+  +-------------------+
                           +-------------------+  |
       [80's Brown water]<-|Brown water conver.|<-+
                           +-------------------+  |
                                                  V
                 +-------------------+  +-------------------+  +-------------------+
[Carrier Focus]->| 80's Escort Focus |<-|80's Surface Group |->|   80's SS Focus   |<-[Submarine Focus]
                 +-------------------+  +---------+---------+  +-------------------+
                                                  V
                 +-------------------+  +-------------------+  +-------------------+
[Carrier Focus]->| 90's Escort Focus |<-|90's Surface Group |->|   90's SS Focus   |<-[Submarine Focus]
                 +-------------------+  +---------+---------+  +-------------------+
                                                  V
                 +-------------------+  +-------------------+  +-------------------+
[Carrier Focus]->|Future Escort Focus|<-|Future Surface Grp.|->| Future SS Focus   |<-[Submarine Focus]
                 +-------------------+  +---------+---------+  +-------------------+ 
                                                  V
                                        +---------+---------+
                                        | Future CVL Focus  |
                                        +-------------------+

Kretoxian, can I get positive or negative answer to that annexation-update thingie? It's quite important and some current air and future naval/air doctrines techs depend on that descision.

[Kretoxian]

Kretoxian, can I get positive or negative answer to that annexation-update thingie? It's quite important and some current air and future naval/air doctrines techs depend on that descision.

Nice techs.

About the annexation, i don't know, if it's going to slow down the game.... better not, the game is not running as fast as it should be and with 40 years of game it can become an endless pain.

However, was it so important?

[Foxbat]

About the annexation, i don't know, if it's going to slow down the game.... better not, the game is not running as fast as it should be and with 40 years of game it can become an endless pain.

However, was it so important?

Well, if we are not including it, any tech with unit stats modifiers(like +500/-500 range), won't work. This means, that air refueling and AWACS techs will be deleted from air tree and Brown water navy will lose it's main feature(range reduction).
As for lag, it usually creates 2-5 seconds freeze when annexing/releasing nation(same as in vannilla HoI), apart from that, I haven't noticed any real lag that can be blamed on that system(I'm speaking about Mod34 and mod33).

[Kretoxian]

Well, if we are not including it, any tech with unit stats modifiers(like +500/-500 range), won't work. This means, that air refueling and AWACS techs will be deleted from air tree and Brown water navy will lose it's main feature(range reduction).
As for lag, it usually creates 2-5 seconds freeze when annexing/releasing nation(same as in vannilla HoI), apart from that, I haven't noticed any real lag that can be blamed on that system(I'm speaking about Mod34 and mod33).

Oh wonderful then, i thought that it was general lag (continous). Then, yes go ahead and make it.

[Foxbat]

Then, yes go ahead and make it.

Unfortunately, I know nothing about event making, so it would be great if someone with actual knowledge done that.

[The Great Duck]

I will do them.

[Kretoxian]

I will do them.

Good, thank you, because i'm really busy lately with RL issues that practically can only work on the mod in the weekends.

[The Great Duck]

Well,this is basically it:

event = {
	id = 2900
	random = no
        persistent = yes
	country = TRA

	trigger = {
	AI = yes
        exists = PRI
	}

	name = "AI_EVENT"
	desc = "..."
	style = 0


        date = { day = 0 month = January year = 1955 }
        offset = 45
        deathdate = { day = 31 month = December year = 1995 }
	
        action_a = {
		name = "Ok"
		command = { type = inherit which = PRI }
	}

}
event = {
	id = 2901
	random = no
        persistent = yes
	country = PRI

	trigger = {
	AI = yes
        NOT = { exists = which = TRA }
	}

	name = "AI_EVENT"
	desc = "..."
	style = 0

        date = { day = 0 month = January year = 1955 }
        offset = 45
        deathdate = { day = 31 month = December year = 1995 }

	action_a = {
		name = "Ok"
		command = { type = independence which = TRA = value = 1 }
	}

}

[Kretoxian]

Well,this is basically it:

event = {
	id = 2900
	random = no
        persistent = yes
	country = TRA

	trigger = {
	AI = yes
        exists = PRI
	}

	name = "AI_EVENT"
	desc = "..."
	style = 0


        date = { day = 0 month = January year = 1955 }
        offset = 45
        deathdate = { day = 31 month = December year = 1995 }
	
        action_a = {
		name = "Ok"
		command = { type = inherit which = PRI }
	}

}
event = {
	id = 2901
	random = no
        persistent = yes
	country = PRI

	trigger = {
	AI = yes
        NOT = { exists = which = TRA }
	}

	name = "AI_EVENT"
	desc = "..."
	style = 0

        date = { day = 0 month = January year = 1955 }
        offset = 45
        deathdate = { day = 31 month = December year = 1995 }

	action_a = {
		name = "Ok"
		command = { type = independence which = TRA = value = 1 }
	}

}

Yes, thanks but why do you use the TRA and PRI tags? shouldn't they be U69 (United Nations) and U70 (European Union)?