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There Will Be War

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Anyway, losing Innsbruck, if it happens, is the least of my worries right now...
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Glad to hear that.

I hope, as the good christian you are, your biggest worry is to bring christianity to the 4 corners at the world, even at sword point.

Since Iberia is controlled by the Seljuks, i ask support from all christians against this menace! Whoever agrees to take on this most noble, and holy task, will be granted extra fiefs! The ones taken from the infidels, of course (outside of Iberia, mind you).

We must free the holy city of Byzantion!
 
Oh, indeed. We are to supply troops and money to the most powerful king in Christendie; and in exchange, of his gracious mercy, we are to be granted whatever scraps he chooses not to take up. Outside Iberia, indeed.
 
The Seljuks control some of the richest provinces in the game. Bagdad, and Byzantion are just 2 out of many. Besides that, there are a lot of Kingdoms in their realm. Kingdom of Armenia for example. A very easy way to get rid of your liege, if you want to.

Money? I didnt ask money. You can easily use your vassal's troops to do the butchery. Of course if you use your own troops and go into debt, i might aid you get out of it.
 
BurningEGO said:
As for editing the provs... Well, the last time it hapened to me i didnt bother since the moors stole it from me, and i didnt waste prestige claiming the province they stole. However, i did waste 150 prestige now, reputation, and money for nothing. I dont ask money to be given back, nor reputation to be reduced, since it is at 0, but cant you, at the very least, give me the prestige lost?

As BinTravkin explained early, this is clearly a bug on the game. How can we do nothing in regards to it? If you are just too busy, or just too lazy to edit the save, give it to me and i will edit the province back to me. Certainly everyone can understand that this is fair. What wouldnt be fair would be wasting 150 prestige, some reputation (specially when you are facing a civil war), and cash in transporting troops across the sea, plus their maintenance, to get a single province, which, in the end, is stolen by the AI, which did not even send a single men to fight the county i was at war with.
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O.K., I have a serious problem with this edit. It's an annoying sittuation, yes, but sometimes you are diplomatically outmanuevered, even by the AI.

FinnN said:
If you look at what I wrote I'm suggesting that if you think you're in danger because of the game speed then you should ask for it to be reduced in advance of a problem arising. The only way the Turks (or any other AI) could be a danger is if they have a large land border with you - in which case you should be asking for the game speed to be reduced anyway (in the massively unlikely event that it is at AN in the first place). You don't need a crystal ball or supernatural powers to figure that one out.
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So because Georgia is in the middle of a sea of Seljuks, I should ask for the game to always be slow? I have to say, this seems alot more selfish a request than pausing in the rare occurence that sea actually declares war...

I'm willing to try playing with a no-pause rule, though I'd like to make the counter-suggestion that instead we still allow pauses, but a player must declare that it is them pausing, and be ready to justify their pause, should fellow players want answers. I think the upshot of this would be to encourage people to only pause in emergencies, as getting a reputation as a pauser isn't going to endeer one to the other players...

But maybe I'm being too positive about human nature.

fasquardon
 
fasquardon said:
So because Georgia is in the middle of a sea of Seljuks, I should ask for the game to always be slow? I have to say, this seems alot more selfish a request than pausing in the rare occurence that sea actually declares war...
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Well we already always play at slow or below normal so it's a bit of a straw man really. If we're at those speeds I see no reason to pause at all.

Have fun
Finn
 
Ok, first, about the edit: I've already refused to do it, so no worries there.

Second, about the pausing: We usually play at BN or even Slow, just to avoid lag. At these speeds it should not be necessary to pause even to deal with a DOW. What's the AI going to do in the few days that can pass while you mobilise your troops? It only takes two seconds to press 'grand mobilise'. Pausing when DOWed is of purely psychological usefulness. There is anyway a certain amount of realism in having to deal with events as they happen, without being able to take time-outs.
 
King of Men said:
Second, about the pausing: We usually play at BN or even Slow, just to avoid lag. At these speeds it should not be necessary to pause even to deal with a DOW. What's the AI going to do in the few days that can pass while you mobilise your troops? It only takes two seconds to press 'grand mobilise'. Pausing when DOWed is of purely psychological usefulness. There is anyway a certain amount of realism in having to deal with events as they happen, without being able to take time-outs.
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Hayup, personally I don't have a problem with taking a minute or two to organise your armies, after all, the real Crusaders did their wars in real time. My main objection with making a hard rule against pauses is mostly my general aversion to having too many rules...

fasquardon
 
King of Men said:
Hmm! I must say I'm finding fasq's AAR quite fascinating. Nukes going off on empty mountainsides, angelic visitations, apparent knowledge of the future... What's happening here?
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Hah-hah, good to see someone's been paying attention to their American history then...

fasquardon
 
BurningEGO said:
The Seljuks control some of the richest provinces in the game. Bagdad, and Byzantion are just 2 out of many. Besides that, there are a lot of Kingdoms in their realm. Kingdom of Armenia for example. A very easy way to get rid of your liege, if you want to.

Money? I didnt ask money. You can easily use your vassal's troops to do the butchery. Of course if you use your own troops and go into debt, i might aid you get out of it.
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Ah, this is the traditional gambit of promising land you don't own for support in a war. Glad to see historical plausibility being maintained.

As I indicated last session, I'd be quite interested in joining an anti-Seljuk coalition. I should indicate, however, that I intend to rigorously persue the Bagratuni claim to Armenia.

fasquardon
 
fasquardon said:
My main objection with making a hard rule against pauses is mostly my general aversion to having too many rules...
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I agree, and there wasn't a rule to stop pausing until some started doing it last session despite everyone else screaming at them to stop. I'm opposed to creating rules just for the sake of it, but if something happens that we don't want repeated then a rule is worthwhile, if only to record that people are in agreement that it's not appropriate behaviour.

Have fun
Finn
 
fasquardon said:
Ah, this is the traditional gambit of promising land you don't own for support in a war. Glad to see historical plausibility being maintained.

As I indicated last session, I'd be quite interested in joining an anti-Seljuk coalition. I should indicate, however, that I intend to rigorously persue the Bagratuni claim to Armenia.

fasquardon
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I am sure Imperial troops will be happy to support any serious venture against the Turks.

S+S+G+G
 
FinnN said:
I am sure Imperial troops will be happy to support any serious venture against the Turks.
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What, no children's crusade?

FinnN said:
S+S+G+G
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What does S+S+G+G mean?

fasquardon
 
It only takes two seconds to press 'grand mobilise'.
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Who in God's name uses that anyway. The AI can refuse to mobilize their host. If you muster their forces manually, they cant say crap.

As for the pause to notify the GM to slow down the speed if you are at war... Well, i remember ocasions when we were at AN. I remember a lot of folks asking it to slow it down, as i did since i was at war. Surely if it is at Slow it is already slow enough. BN might be a problem however, depending on the scale of the war.

Last session i had lots of problems. I had to send gifts to my disloyal vassals, i had to fight in north africa, i had to fight in iberia, and in sicily, while trying to find ocasional brides and fighting vassals that just decided to declare indepedence out of thin air. All at the same time.

I do have confidence in my skills to manage several fronts at the same time as in EU, but frankly speaking i had big problems doing such last time, till we slowed down.

--------------------------

As for the silly of excuse of Crusaders doing their war in real time... I cant stop laughing, really. In real life one day isnt one second, either, mind you. As for historicity... Georgia owning parts of Byzantium? Norway controlling Sweden by 1100? England controlled by a scotish monarch? Ahem... If you want history, please, leave CK and go search some other game, for everyone at this stage know that CK is totaly ahistorical.

And as for being selfish for asking the speed to be reduced... Frankly, in all games, i repeat, all games i have played, produced by paradox, be it HOI, Victoria, EU, the game is always slowed down when there is something really big hapening, like a war. You seriously cant expect players to manage their country at war at the same speed they were managing it in peace.
 
BurningEGO said:
As for historicity... Georgia owning parts of Byzantium?
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Like, say, Trebizond?

Norway controlling Sweden by 1100?
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As opposed to Denmark controlling England in 1030, for example?

England controlled by a scotish monarch?
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Ever heard of James I and VI?

You seriously cant expect players to manage their country at war at the same speed they were managing it in peace.
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Nor do we. Going down a notch when a war happens is fine. It's pausing we object to. It takes a max of ten game days to say "Slow down please, big war!" and have Anders respond. Nobody is going to get conquered in ten days.


And by the way, what is with the mouth on you? Are you really incapable of conducting a discussion in a serious, moderate fashion, without constantly implying that everybody else in it is an idiot for not agreeing with you? You keep throwing around terms like "silly", "crap", "leave CK and go play some other game", "Who in God's name" whenever somebody happens to have a different view from yours. This does not contribute to a pleasant atmosphere. Kindly stop doing so.
 
BurningEGO said:
Who in God's name uses that anyway. The AI can refuse to mobilize their host. If you muster their forces manually, they cant say crap.
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That's just it though - you can either (a) spend time mobilising by hand, or you can (b) call grand mobilisation, or you can (c) use the tactic of pausing in order to avoid ever having to do a grand mobilisation. Isn't what you're suggesting the very definition of an exploit - abusing the interface to completely get around a game mechanic?

I'm happy if the game stays at BN, slow is a bit tedious but I'm OK with that too. Allowing pausing when we feel like it though just opens a whole can of worms, in my opinion anyway. It should be more difficult to control a massive spread-out multiple-title kingdom, if it's no harder to control one than a small compact one then there's something wrong.

Have fun
Finn
 
BurningEGO said:
As for the silly of excuse of Crusaders doing their war in real time... I cant stop laughing, really. In real life one day isnt one second, either, mind you. As for historicity... Georgia owning parts of Byzantium? Norway controlling Sweden by 1100? England controlled by a scotish monarch? Ahem... If you want history, please, leave CK and go search some other game, for everyone at this stage know that CK is totaly ahistorical.

And as for being selfish for asking the speed to be reduced... Frankly, in all games, i repeat, all games i have played, produced by paradox, be it HOI, Victoria, EU, the game is always slowed down when there is something really big hapening, like a war. You seriously cant expect players to manage their country at war at the same speed they were managing it in peace.
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You realise you've just misinterpreted everything I said? And been rather rude to boot? I would consider it a favour if you'd actually pay attention to what I say.

fasquardon
 
Hmm, I must have missed your Children's Crusade then...

fasquardon said:
What does S+S+G+G mean?
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FinnN said:
Wouldn't you like to know! :p
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That is why I asked :p

fasquardon
 
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