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Armageddon Consolidated China Improvement Pack

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How do you trigger the Fading Sun Event as Communist China? Isnt that the only way for Cummunist China to gain Manchuria by event? (Other than the soviets giving it to Mao) I cant see how you could play historially and win the CHinese Civil War as COmmunist China in a 36' GC.
 
Hail of Nails said:
So can someone tell me again, why does Guangxi declare war on you in 1936?

I can't seem to find any info on it, except the Central Plains War some years before. Can I get any more context into that event? It would be appreciated.
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The Japanese reinforced their Kantogun in May/June 1936, in violation of their previous "treaties" with China. The leaders of Guangxi were pissed that CKS did not grant their troops permission to march north to fight the Japanese, and did so anyway. After no real fighting, they resolved their differences amicably when Guangxi realized that they had no chance of winning against CKS (and had better things to do than kill each others' troops when Japan was eying them hungrily).
Scippio said:
How do you trigger the Fading Sun Event as Communist China? Isnt that the only way for Cummunist China to gain Manchuria by event? (Other than the soviets giving it to Mao) I cant see how you could play historially and win the CHinese Civil War as COmmunist China in a 36' GC.
Click to expand...
You have to replace CHI and take all the VPs that CHI needs to take in the north.

Even if NatChi gets Fading Sun, CHC will still rise up in some provinces. If all goes historical, SOV should give you Manchuria... but that scarcely happens.
 
mib said:
Even if NatChi gets Fading Sun, CHC will still rise up in some provinces. If all goes historical, SOV should give you Manchuria... but that scarcely happens.
Click to expand...

I've always felt there should be a regular 1945 GC (not a DD senario) with an emphasis on events and AI for the fall of Japan and the chinese civil war, including an event to trigger the soviet invasion of Manchuria. There are too many issues with doing so historically from 36'.
 
Scippio said:
I've always felt there should be a regular 1945 GC (not a DD senario) with an emphasis on events and AI for the fall of Japan and the chinese civil war, including an event to trigger the soviet invasion of Manchuria. There are too many issues with doing so historically from 36'.
Click to expand...

I agree. I just don't think the HoI engine has the capability of modeling the intricacies of the Chinese Civil War. Anyway, it's fun to play with alternate histories, isn't it? :p
 
If I have time I actually want to do a what-if scenario about a Japan that did not surrender (either because they took the bomb hits and sucked it up or because the bombs were duds or because Truman didn't want to use them). ;)
 
Just a comment. Was playing as Japan and had pushed china back pretty far, I was likely going to annex them in the next few months.

I got some event with three choices, top one was puppet, bottom one was take all the land for myself.

Anyways- I took all the land for myself. The problem is that ALL my units were shot up into the redeployment pool and sent to my capitol. Communist China was suddenly enlarged, and recieving aid from the Soviet Union.

So now I have a SECOND powerful china shoved into my completely undefended land. I have to ship over 90 divisions BACK to china and position them on the far western border - what gives?

Is there anyway to fire that event -without- shoot troops to the redeployment pool?
 
Edit the event to make China give military access to Japan. Somwehere in event 3814 (or is it 3815?).
 
If I remember my history correctly, wasn't there an attempted military coup in Japan around the day right before they surrendered to prevent Japan from surrendering to the Allies? It failed due to the lack of coordinating and them not being able to find Hirohito's speech to his people on the film. That would be historically plausible under Japan taking the hits and continuing to fight.
 
Kavok said:
How the heck do you guys beat Japan as NatChi? I can't ever seem to gain anything on them.
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There are a number of strategies which lead easily to Japan's downfall. The one I use is rather simple, assuming you take care of the starting dissent and Guangxi crisis in a timely manner. I start a 3x99 infantry build in late 36, along with 1 HQ to be completed before MP Bridge. Remaining IC goes to upgrades and reinforcement.

You can either form a defensive perimeter behind the front, allowing Shanxi to fall or you can fortify the north and advance from within Shanxi. The one drawback of allowing Shanxi to survive is being unable to Strategically Redeploy within Shanxi lands, but it's not a major obstacle in my experience. All troops are to be stationed in the 4 northern border provinces. The instant the war starts, order a coordinated assault on Changde.

When the "United Front" event fires, military control all the allies and use their troops to fortify the beaches. Use CHC troops to fight in the north because they are excellent quality with good leaders.

I think the prevailing tactic is to allow the Japanese to advance into encirclement traps and then annihilate them, but I just brute-force them out of Manchuria.

Some general tips:
  • Always use synchronized offence so that your troops arrive as one force, or they will be driven back piecemeal.
  • Try to avoid command limit penalties (use the HQ wisely) and cycle out "tired" troops with fresh ones before the battle is lost.

On normal/normal this leads to the Fading Sun event around July or August of 1938 leaving you plenty of time to build a superpower.

(disclaimer: this is merely my strategy and not the strategy!)
 
Kavok said:
How the heck do you guys beat Japan as NatChi? I can't ever seem to gain anything on them.
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Take it slow, beating Japan in December 1937 just isn't fun.

I usually don't do the encircling trick, even though I frequently recommend it to newbies. :p I prefer to encircle Japanese troops in Manchuria, instead. That way I can wipe out 70+ divisions instead only 10-something. :p
 
I'm still losing :(

Its 1938. I have something like 100+ divisions on the japanese border, and my coastline is secure.

I'm just in a constantly loop of them advancing 3 divisions and me encircling then running.

They've gained land, but I haven't.
 
mib said:
Take it slow, beating Japan in December 1937 just isn't fun.
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Oh, but it is...gives you almost two years to consolidate and mass on the Indian / Burmese / Vietnamese borders before the fun really starts.

It's amazing how much better the Italians perform in Africa if the UK is distracted in India.
 
Kavok said:
I'm still losing :(

Its 1938. I have something like 100+ divisions on the japanese border, and my coastline is secure.

I'm just in a constantly loop of them advancing 3 divisions and me encircling then running.

They've gained land, but I haven't.
Click to expand...
Are you utilizing your warlords' troops? Once you give them some vital techs their troops are very useful for coastal garrison and second-line troops. If all else fails, just produce more INF! :p
ulmont said:
Oh, but it is...gives you almost two years to consolidate and mass on the Indian / Burmese / Vietnamese borders before the fun really starts.

It's amazing how much better the Italians perform in Africa if the UK is distracted in India.
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I dunno, I would very much prefer a struggle of epic proportion against Japan spanning a decade or more. A life-and-death struggle against Japan is much, much more satisfying than kicking British/French/Soviet backsides. :)
 
Something I noticed:
Both in your mod and in vanilla the extended cores of Mengkukuo have been removed (all of Mongolia). Oddly enough they have even larger claims in the other GCs.
Are they too ahistorical or was this just an oversight by Paradox?
Anyway, here are the cores used in the other GCs:

MEN = {
date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1936 }
expirydate = { day = 30 month = december year = 1954 }
minimum = {
1208
}
extra = {
#normal cores
1385 1398 1207 1386 1439
#mongolia
1420 1434 1419 1436 1437 1438 1399 1385 1404
#siberia and TT
1418 1520 1384
#extra stuff in china
1273 1272 1274 1206 1209
}
capital = 1206
}

I also moved the capital to Kalgan because thats what the description said :D
Here is a screenie of the complete thing:


Also two questions:
1. Do you have plans to portray more of the Sino-German cooperation? An ahistorical continuation perhaps?

2. And is there any way to ally with China when playing as Germany?
 
Graf Koks said:
Something I noticed:
Both in your mod and in vanilla the extended cores of Mengkukuo have been removed (all of Mongolia). Oddly enough they have even larger claims in the other GCs.
Are they too ahistorical or was this just an oversight by Paradox?
Anyway, here are the cores used in the other GCs:

MEN = {
date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1936 }
expirydate = { day = 30 month = december year = 1954 }
minimum = {
1208
}
extra = {
#normal cores
1385 1398 1207 1386 1439
#mongolia
1420 1434 1419 1436 1437 1438 1399 1385 1404
#siberia and TT
1418 1520 1384
#extra stuff in china
1273 1272 1274 1206 1209
}
capital = 1206
}

I also moved the capital to Kalgan because thats what the description said :D
Here is a screenie of the complete thing:


Also two questions:
1. Do you have plans to portray more of the Sino-German cooperation? An ahistorical continuation perhaps?

2. And is there any way to ally with China when playing as Germany?
Click to expand...

will research mengkukuo historical claims

1. yes, but alt-hist has a lower priority on my todo list

2. 200 relations and a whole ton of luck. i usually just neville it.
 
Mib, I'd like to know how you define field marshals? The Nationalist Army had no field marshals(元帥), instead they divided generals into two classes, the first-class(一級上將) and the second-class(二級上將). I suppose we should let these first-class generals represent field marshals? Chiang Kai-Shek, the special-class general(特級上將), should be a special case, since he was the only one who got promoted to that high, therefore using his position to represent field marshal seems to be a bad idea.

I am currently working on the spreadsheet you sent me. Also I have a question about the column "would defect"...Defect to whom? The PLA? The Japanese? Or both?
 
clanjay1989 said:
Mib, I'd like to know how you define field marshals? The Nationalist Army had no field marshals(元帥), instead they divided generals into two classes, the first-class(一級上將) and the second-class(二級上將). I suppose we should let these first-class generals represent field marshals? Chiang Kai-Shek, the special-class general(特級上將), should be a special case, since he was the only one who got promoted to that high, therefore using his position to represent field marshal seems to be a bad idea.

I am currently working on the spreadsheet you sent me. Also I have a question about the column "would defect"...Defect to whom? The PLA? The Japanese? Or both?
Click to expand...
Good to hear! I've also been working on the generals, but mainly from the top up. (army group commanders and above). Would defect to Japanese. Defect to CPC has another tab, simply named "Communist?"

IIRC NatChi starts with more than just CKS as a FM... some other old guard guy does as well (name escapes me ATM).

Mj Gen 少將
Lt Gen 中將
Gen 二級上將
FM 一級上將
 
mib said:
Good to hear! I've also been working on the generals, but mainly from the top up. (army group commanders and above). Would defect to Japanese. Defect to CPC has another tab, simply named "Communist?"

IIRC NatChi starts with more than just CKS as a FM... some other old guard guy does as well (name escapes me ATM).

Mj Gen 少將
Lt Gen 中將
Gen 二級上將
FM 一級上將
Click to expand...

Hmm...I guess we need to catagorize those Nationalist leaders who voluntarily stayed in the Mainland and accepted Communist government positions as Communist defectors. However there have also been people who were captured in battle and who were forced to stay behind the iron curtain after 1949, many of them were released from jail after a few years of forced labor and brainwashing. They were usually given government positions after release, but it was pretty obvious that some of them still remained loyal to the Nationalist Party.

Here's an example: Kang Ze, the Head of Intelligence of Nationalist China

So in this case, this kind of people should not be labelled "Communist" even though they stayed and accepted Communist rule?

By the way, could you send me a list of the names of all Chinese leaders in CHINESE? It's kinda difficult to search for their pictures using pingyin as I don't know every single one of them. :(
 
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