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VILenin: Yes , especially in Catholic Christianity there is little to quibble about between science and religion and it has been that way historically as well as contemporarily .

To quote Cardinal James DeWitt: "“Haha, why do you think our Catholic Church invented Universities? To know science is to know the hand of God, Renault. Who do you think invented the concept of Mathematics? God did! Laws of nature may define our world, but who defined the Laws of Nature in the beginning? One truth can never contradict another; so it is with religion and science. Science that attempts to disprove revelation and misguided theologians who don’t accept the complex mastery of God’s plan to include science are equally misled. Just as philosophy is the handmaid of theology, so it is with science and humanity, my good friend.”

Avernite: XD

English Patriot: Very true XD I could very well raise all of them with the money I wished for and smoke those cigars as I protect them from vampires with my silver bullets XD
 
Haven't read the Easter Special, but I'll get to it. Maverick huh? Iceman shoots him down everytime. There is a reason I say that. I'll tell you about it sometime. :D
 
Purgatory in the Eleventh Hour - Chapter 5

Chapter Five: Dead Ends

chalk_outlinne.jpg

I bolted out of my seat and started heading towards the door as Captain Yamashita gave me the location of the crime scene. Breezing past the confused bouncer by the front door, I got in my car and sped towards this new murder. By discreetly ignoring the speed limit and other small points of traffic law I managed to arrive in record time. A full forensics team was at work, scrutinizing every last inch of the scene for potential evidence. Three men in ordinary suits stood in a huddle, conversing amongst themselves. By their bearing they were obviously homicide detectives. I headed over to them to get an overview of what had happened.

I was five steps from my car when saw her: a middle-aged woman, may forty years old, laying sprawled on the pavement. With her dark nun’s habit it was almost impossible to make out the dark bloodstains that crept down to the ground to join with a small pool of blood. I twisted my gaze away as feeling of nausea and empty horror washed over me. Steeling myself with a slow breath, I continued the walk to the detectives.

As I approached one of them looked up from the quiet conversation. He was a man of average height, with dark brown hair that was certainly longer than regulation. Some sort of recognition passes across his face as he saw me and he moved away from the other two to meet me.

“You must Agent Calavera,” he said in a no-nonsense voice. “Captain Yamashita told me you were coming. I’m Chief Inspector Yagami, head of the homicide division. I’ve been ordered to assist you any way I can.”

I listened carefully for any trace of bitterness or resentment in his voice as having to work on a case under a DSI agent but didn’t find any. It seemed the Captain could pick good people to work for him. Not all of them, though, I reminded myself darkly.

“That’s right,” I said, “I’m investigating the murder of Father Molina. I’m assuming the Seattle PD has reason to believe that these crimes are connected.”

Yagami nodded, “We have every reason to think so. Let’s start with the victim.”

With a small gesture for me to follow he headed over to the deceased’s body. We stood a respectful distance away, looking at the body of another faithful servant of God now dead.

“Sister Anna Lucia, a native of the Pacific Northwest and attached to the local diocese. She spent time working at one of the shelters in the south side of the city. A well liked member of the community, known for her compassion and devotion.”

“Just like Father Molina,” I murmured.

“She was heading back from a shift there,” Inspector Yagami continued, “when she ran into the killer. Scuff marks on the sidewalk indicate a short pursuit; we’re checking to try and recover sole samples. The victim only made about twenty feet before being shot twice from behind. At that time local residents reported hearing gunshots and a police team was dispatched. She was dead by the time we arrived.”

“Any witnesses?” I asked, though the answer seemed obvious.d

Yagami shook his head. “No, no one saw the murder or anything suspicious prior to gunshots. And so far we haven’t turned up any forensic evidence. My team’s been over this place with a fine-toothed comb but they haven’t found any shell casings, fingerprints, stray fibers, nothing. Whoever’s doing this, agent Calavera, knows what they’re doing.”

I nodded, it certainly looked like these killings were being done by a professional. The absence of eye-witnesses or evidence strongly suggested that the killer knew what to do and what to avoid. And that meant that I was still no closer to finding out who he was.

“Damn,” I muttered quietly. All my time in law enforcement and I wasn’t sure how to move forward with no appreciable leads. There had to be some angle I could attack, something I could follow back to its source.

The gun, I thought to myself, that’s gotta be it. The gun type was the only thing I had right now to go on. There wasn’t anything else to be done here at the crime scene so I told Inspector Yagami to keep me posted and then headed back to the station.

************************************************************************

The first thing I’d done when I’d gotten back was to tell the Seattle PD to pick up Johnny French’s gun-man. For whatever reason, though - maybe he’d heard about my stunt in the Red Room - he seemed to have gone to ground and the police were having trouble finding him. It was anyone’s guess how long it would take to dig him up so, in the mean time, I decided to attack the problem from the other end. I got the bright idea of starting with the manufacturers and tracking the guns as they went out; after all, how many .44 calibre pistols could there be out there?

As it turned out, a lot. For a highly restricted handgun certain companies seemed to make an excessively high number of them. After beating my head against stacks of shipping orders and warehouse inventories for an hour, I made a desperation call to Brother Alfred asking him to come down and lend me a hand. He’d always been better at wading through these masses of numbers and I hoped that the two of us could maybe make some progress.

As we worked, we soon discovered two interesting facts. The first was that several major firearms manufacturers in the American West were all subsidiaries of some larger company. Corporate front led to corporate front; NorPac Industries, Nueva España Enterprises, Abstergo International, the list went on. Not only did they own the gun makers but these dummy corps also owned each other, which turned trying to follow the money trail to its end an extremely convoluted effort. Finally, though, we came across one company that seemed to be holding all the strings: Lux Research Group, a subsidiary of American United. But that’s where the trail ended, it was impossible to figure out who actually owned the company or what exactly it did. I made copies of all the information and made a note to pass it along to Eva to look into further.

The second interesting piece of information was that many of the weapons being produced, close to fifteen percent, seemed to serve no purpose but to go and collect dust in various warehouses. The set-up obviously seemed geared for sales to the black market. Inventory would sit in poorly guarded locations until it was “stolen.” The company would then claim a loss, write it off on their taxes and make a handy two way profit. It was pretty obvious, really obvious to the point where I wondered if there wasn’t something else going on. But right now that wasn’t my concern; besides, there’s no rule saying criminals have to be smart.

This meant, of course, that it would be virtually impossible to track the guns from that end. Once they “disappeared” all records would go with them so to track one down I’d have to tear up a whole layer of criminal underground. And while the Department could do it, we didn’t have the time it would take twist that many arms. It seemed that once again I was at a dead end.
 
grayghost: XD Read it ! it has pics !

Haha an excellent chapter , Mr. Lenin ! You always deliver ! the plot is certainly becoming thicker than water - wink - . and yes , I hope that Inspector Yagami is also keeping a close eye on his son ,eh ? XD
 
Alright, my (semi) intelligent post on magic and time travelling.

First the difference between magic and miracles; magic is in my opinion nothing more than a trick, a kind of manipulation of something that differs from story to story, but it is in one way or another always a part of the world, not something supernatural. In this sense magic is little different from technology, the only difference is that (in most stories) it doesn't require much of a device to work and is manipulated with (mostly) the mind.

Praying on the other hand is putting faith and trust in God (or who/whatever you choose to believe in), although, just like magic, it is mostly an act of the mind, it completly differs from it because it isn't an act of control.

A last not is the reality of both. Magic doesn't exist, there is no way I can manipulate the world around me with my mind soley, I need my body for that (yes, master I'd love to stand on my head and lift rocks and my pet-robot with my mind but it's impossible). Magic doesn't exist, as it requires an impossible interaction between mind and the matter around me.

Praying on the otherhand isn't mesurable, as it is a matter of faith. And as with all religious matters emperical unprovable. I might see the recovery of a dear friend as an answer of my prayers, the doctor on the otherhand may just have found a new cure, there is no way I can prove that my prayer was the essential part. However, this doesn't really matter, as my prayer has an interestic value as act of faith because it proofs at the very least that I am willing to put the fate of my friend in God's hands. An attempt to magic on the other hand wouldn't accomplish anything, than maybe proof that I care enough for my friend or am desperate to try something silly of which I know it's impossible.
 
canonized said:
Eber: ROFL , well thank you . Maybe more Edwardian than Victorian but at least her mug was on our bottle , eh ? XD

Grubnessul: ROFL , hmm a viking beard .. now there's a thought .

English Patriot: VILenin certainly went to town XD



Because in magic , an effect is guaranteed by the usage of an item . In prayer , an effect is not guaranteed , but a long term destination . More on this as I respond more in the latter portions .



I'll give you a fine example as to how Christian prayer is understood as different from magic .

In magic , incantation/stone/wand "X" causes discrete effect "Y" (perhaps magic missiles XD)

In prayer , prayer/devotion "X" does not necessarily cause "Y"

But does that mean prayers are not answered ? No , they are . It is to be understood that they are . But let me give you an example of HOW they are answered .

Let's pretend that last night I pray for money , 22 virginal women , fifteen cigars , and the ability to live for thousands of years in my caddy ways .

In magic , if I had done a spell , this would all come about because the matter of the wand or the spell would force a supernatural effect .

However , in prayer , none of these things would be given to me NECESSARILY . Why ? Because I was praying for evil things .

I'll go with an even more pertinent example of how prayers are answered yet may not be what we want : Say , that I pray for the World to be conquered by Spain so that more people could be part of the One True Faith . Let's say that I pray that we have a government that actively fights liberalism etc .

If this was magic , I could say "Hocus Pocus" and we'd have tercios running around .

However , in prayer , God may not grant this to me and instead will have me learn to be humble , pious , and more religious in the face of adversity and trial and show me that the Christian life is not about domination and power but about carrying the cross etc .

God delivers through prayer what is good for us . Thus this is how we are guaranteed that our prayers will be answered . In the Christian sense God is not legalistic hence how we can never sue God and win because it is in the context of Fatherhood . quis autem ex vobis patrem petet panem numquid lapidem dabit illi aut piscem numquid pro pisce serpentem dabit illi (And which of you, if he ask his father bread, will he give him a stone? Or a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?) Luke 11:11 . Therefore , while magical items force a divine action , prayer is a surrender of the self to the will of God and thus how we receive The Good . It is a difference between egoism and openness and it is a theme in Timelines as egos flair . By no means is this theme fully worked out . Indeed , there will be more chapters where the question of the VERY NATURE of a Spanish dominated world if it is really the 'right' one . I wouldn't have had a Protestant main character who questions the validity of such a world if I didn't believe that such an objection had some merit and as much as I am a romantic about the viability of Spain , the basic rights of humanity compels me as a Christian to investigate the matter better in the text =) .

Aside from these the rest of your comments were pretty close if not on the mark XD .


Only in fairly limited definitions of prayer, and not all the things that people might adhere to as magic would fall under your clasification either.

For example, praying for the healing of the sick (and other specific things like that) asks for a rather specific way of magic.
And there are certainly "schools" of magic (such as w/ genies, or is it then religion again? (even if not Catholic genies :D)) that don't give exactly what you ask for.. Or spells that "fizzle"

As to the example of virgins, sigars and other possibly carnal pleasure related ehm.. prayers?
....and who was defining evil again?

-------
And for our resident general...

Depends on how you define "mind" - for the mind (or the brain in any case, does the mind have a separate existance?) certainly creates electrical currents, and with that, evanescent electro-magnetic fields...highly unlikely to affect anything but the brain itself, but not a theoretical impossibility.
-------

As for VILenin's little quest, I have a feeling where I can find them in the chapter, but none of them rings any real bells.. (I could probably enlist the help of wiki, imdb, google... but that would be too much of a hassle :p)
 
Good God! What have you guys been smoking lately! :eek: :p
 
Murmurandus said:
Good God! What have you guys been smoking lately! :eek: :p

Search me. When I got there they were already like that... Besides, I don't smoke.

But I do.

Oh Peti...
 
Grubnessul: Yes I do agree with what you're saying XD . It is a matter of who's will be done and an understanding that no power is on earth without that which is given from Heaven . Jesus answered: Thou shouldst not have any power against me, unless it were given thee from above... John 19:11

ForzaA said:
Only in fairly limited definitions of prayer, and not all the things that people might adhere to as magic would fall under your clasification either.

For example, praying for the healing of the sick (and other specific things like that) asks for a rather specific way of magic.

Magic should not be used synonymously with supernatural . It is true that prayer asks for something supernatural but , as we saw in the dissertation , Magic implies the imposition of one's will instead of asking . It is telling not asking . It is putting faith in matter that moves the supernatural not putting faith in the supernatural effecting matter . Power (supernatural power) is indeed there , that they have in common , but that's where their similarities end . Magic can be explained by science (as can some miracles) but there are some miracles which cannot be explained as Grubby put forth .
And there are certainly "schools" of magic (such as w/ genies, or is it then religion again? (even if not Catholic genies )) that don't give exactly what you ask for.. Or spells that "fizzle"

Haha , if it's magic , it doesn't exist ; even if other religions claim it to . Although , I'd have to think about how Satanic 'magic' deals into it since those wouldn't be miracles but such an evil might be allowed to happen since we live in a free-will world . We'll have to see !

Murmurandus: flavoured cigars XD

Kurt_Steiner: Haha , Peti and I could go outside for a moment to have a nice tasting cuban , eh , Peti ? XD Not too often though ! Haha
 
canonized said:
Kurt_Steiner: Haha , Peti and I could go outside for a moment to have a nice tasting cuban , eh , Peti ? XD Not too often though ! Haha

At your own risk. Mind you... Peti's cubans smell a lot worse than his farts...
 
I have several comments at this time:

  • After "The Girl from Ipanimi" reference I groaned
  • After "Jesca de Alba" and "Jesca de Biel" I wanted to hurt you.
  • After not getting "The Spears of Brittany" I laughed that you somehow couldn't have thrown that into the chapter. :p
  • Then I got "Can you hear the drums Fernando?"... And I fell to the floor in convulsions of hysterics all while singing ABBA Gold. I may have soiled myself too. :eek: :eek:o

Chapter 51 and still reading. I'll catch up soon enough! :cool:
 
Alright, just finished chapter 19 with the Zombies. I may have to read another update tonight, the entire Zombie thing is confusing me, although my suspicions are that they were somehow created by the Schwarzchild Guild. Excellent update, and I like the irony of the "demonic" zombies meeting their end in fire.

That game Lycanthropes sounds very familiar...
 
Kurt_Steiner: ROFL that sounds absolutely hideous !! What does he put into his cubans XD

Bingo Brett: Haha Brittany Spears . I totally should have thought of that ! You've got me there XD Very glad you're enjoying and keeling over the references XD

comagoosie: Yes ! I'll let VILenin answer your praise as well :D

Cyrus_The_Great: XD Well done XD that's not a bad guess ! And yep , should be familiar :D another reference you see !
 
aHuman(oid) said:
At first I decided that I wouldn't post until I caught up, but then I realised it would be over by then. It's going great back where I am, and I hope to catch up before it finishes.

Welcome !! I'm very happy to hear you're reading through :D Please do tell us what you think as you go along !
 
canonized said:
To quote Cardinal James DeWitt: "“Haha, why do you think our Catholic Church invented Universities? To know science is to know the hand of God, Renault. Who do you think invented the concept of Mathematics? God did! Laws of nature may define our world, but who defined the Laws of Nature in the beginning? One truth can never contradict another; so it is with religion and science. Science that attempts to disprove revelation and misguided theologians who don’t accept the complex mastery of God’s plan to include science are equally misled. Just as philosophy is the handmaid of theology, so it is with science and humanity, my good friend.”

Too bad that the earliest degree-granting institutions of higher learning were set up by the Muslims.

--------

I return from my absense to find piles and piles more of delectable writing. Guess what I'll have to be doing now...
 
RGB said:
Too bad that the earliest degree-granting institutions of higher learning were set up by the Muslims.

--------

I return from my absense to find piles and piles more of delectable writing. Guess what I'll have to be doing now...

First , I'd like you to cite your sources so that I can properly cross examine them for accuracy and applicability .

Secondly , Earliest degree-granting institution ? Oh wonderful , that's a great way of looking at it . It's definitely of significance if it's true much the same way the university that first started using maces for department heads is significant . Degrees being 'granted' is irrelevant ; a piece of paper only formalizes what already goes on at institutions . Institutions of higher learning existed well beforehand and especially in Christian Europe especially by the Byzantines etc .

Thirdly , let's look at the context of the speaker and his subject . Do you think that Cardinal DeWitt was talking about universities outside of the West ? Do you think he was claiming that they invented the systems of higher learning in China ? No

Do you think he was saying other cultures such as the Muslims and Indians did not have institutions of higher learning ? No

Was he pointing out that rationalism is a tradition of the West ? Yes .

So is it true that the first 'degree - granting institution' was effected by the Muslims ? We'll see your citation . But even if it were true , what does that mean ?

Just what are you insinuating ?
 
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canonized said:
It's definitely of significance if it's true much the same way the university that first started using maces for department heads is significant . Degrees being 'granted' is irrelevant ; a piece of paper only formalizes what already goes on at institutions .

Entirely relevant; otherwise any institution becomes a university. The piece of paper is expensive, I should know, but it matters.

Early Muslim "universities" were set up in Cairo and in Fez as well, among others. They were different because they granted papers that had validity across a unified cultural space. Kind of like the university system.

Was he pointing out that rationalism is a tradition of the West ? Yes .

The West =/= Catholic Christianity; Islam (in Spain in particular) had a major role in the development of rationalism.

What Cardinal DeWitt pointed out was entirely correct according to Cardinal DeWitt. Is he all-knowing and unbiased? Well.

Just what are you insinuating ?

Nothing at all. Normally I'd think there's no insinuation involved in poking fun at certain characters' impassioned statements. Tskb did it to mine and that's why I love Tskb. Perhaps I should have used some smileys.

Relax, man.
 
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canonized said:
Magic should not be used synonymously with supernatural . It is true that prayer asks for something supernatural but , as we saw in the dissertation , Magic implies the imposition of one's will instead of asking . It is telling not asking . It is putting faith in matter that moves the supernatural not putting faith in the supernatural effecting matter . Power (supernatural power) is indeed there , that they have in common , but that's where their similarities end.
:blink blink:
I'm afraid sr. Jose has just lost half of the class...
Also, since when is "Give us this day our daily bread" a question? :D
Doesn't look like it's phrased as one :p


Haha , if it's magic , it doesn't exist ; even if other religions claim it to . Although , I'd have to think about how Satanic 'magic' deals into it since those wouldn't be miracles but such an evil might be allowed to happen since we live in a free-will world . We'll have to see !
Magic=bad..even though it doesn't exist? :confused: