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  1. #1
    Buckler of Wales Drachenfire's Avatar
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    Here Be Dragons Discussion Thread


    Here Be Dragons beta

    and the

    Welsh Expansion 1.0





    "Theirs was a land of awsome grandure, a land of mountains and moorlands and cherished myths. They called it Cymru and believed themselves to be the decendants of ancient Troy. They were a passionate, generous, and turbulent people with but one fatal flaw. They proclaimed themselves to be Cymry- "fellow countrymen"- but they fought one another as fiercely as they did their English neighbors, and had carved three separate kingdoms out of their native soil. To the north was the alpine citadel of Gwynedd, bordered by Powys, and to the south lay the realm of Deheubarth. To the English Kings, this constant discord was a blessing and they did what they could to sow seeds of dissension and strife amongst the Welsh.

    "During the reigns of the Norman conquerors, William the Bastard, and his sons, the English crown continued to gain influence in Wales. Norman castles rose up on Welsh soil, and Norman towns began to take root in the valleys of South Wales. As the Normans had subdued the native-born Saxons, so, too, it began to seem that they would subdue the Welsh.

    "As a point of interest, the title of this book has its roots in the common practice of medieval cartographers; when a mapmaker had drawn upon all of his geographical knowledge, he would neatly letter across the void beyond: Here be dragons. I found the symbolism hard to resist, given how very little the English of the thirteenth century knew of Wales and the Welsh. Then, too, the national emblem of Wales is a winged red dragon, much like those heraldic dragons once emblazoned upon the banners of her princes."


    -Sharon Kay Penman
    Here Be Dragons
    A Ballatine Book, 1985
    Last edited by Drachenfire; 22-02-2007 at 03:38.


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  2. #2
    Buckler of Wales Drachenfire's Avatar
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    Welsh Expansion 1.0


    Welsh Expansion 1.0 download here

    The Welsh Expansion is designed to be included into the forthcoming Crusader Kings patch. Included are corrected dynasty names within Wales, and expanded the families and their relations. Many thanks and kudos to Llywelyn for web researching many Welsh dynasties. I have not yet added all of them, but in furture patches of Here Be Dragons I plan to add many more. Additionally, as the Welsh Expansion 1.0 only effects Wales and the Welsh provances, it is most likely compadable to be added with your favorite mode. Lastly, I have not deleted any tags, rather created new tags and used those. In this way, if I did miss something it will not result to CTD.

    What this mod includes:


    * Cynfyn dynasty renamed to Mathrafal (pronounced Mathraval) dynasty, tracing their decent through Princess Anghared ferch Maredudd, and so named after their principle seat of Castell Mathrafal. Thanks to Llywelyn for uncovering additional family members, thusly expanded. According to Rhion, who studies these things, the name Mathrafal may derive from the site it was built on: "Ma" is an old word for a plain or open space, c.f. the modern Welsh "maes" meaning "field". The second part of the name is from "trafal", the triangular piece of land in the angle formed where two rivers meet.

    * Aberffraw dynasty added, so named after their early principle seat at Aberffraw, Ynys Mon. The of Gwynedd family members in 1187 reassigned to this tag. The meaning Aberffraw, the River Ffraw, was apparently originally called the "Ffrawf", meaning a "flow" or "stream".

    * Dinefwr dynasty added as the ducal family of Deheubarth, so named after their castle in Deheubarth. The of Dyfed family in 1187 reassigned here. Family members expanded. Dinefwr may have its origions as a flower: "Din" is an old word for a "fort"; "efwr" is a plant - "Cow Parsnip". "Fort of Efwr."

    * For those interested, you could now trace back the three lines to Rhodri Mwar , a contemporary of Charlemagne.

    * Meraidoc dynasty changed to Morgan(wg)
    * Gwenllwg dynasty added to Gwent.
    * Tegaingl dynasty assigned to Perfeddwlad. Tegaingl was the commote or lordship encompasing modern Dinbigh and Flint.
    * Important church figures (and their sons) added: Sulien of Llanbadarn, Edwin of Llancarfan.
    * Expanded Welsh generic naming list, and generic dynasty list
    * Breton culture using Celtic tag, expanded Breton naming list, Breton characters for rulers in Brittany in 1066.
    * Welsh provencial income corrected.
    - Gwynedd 5
    - Powys 3
    - Perfeddwlad 2
    - Dyfed 4
    - Glamorgan 3
    - Gwent 3
    * Welsh geography corrected
    - Gwynedd is now mountainous for yr Wyddfa
    - Perfeddwald, Powys, Glamorgan are now hills.
    - Dyfed is now plains
    - Gwent is now forested.

    ** yet to do: remove un-Breton generic dynasties from appearing in Brittany.
    ** modify female sucession, if you know how, please help us!





    Here Be Dragons

    Here Be Dragons 03-19 Download Here

    I am excited about this mod. In Here Be Dragons I have widened my interest from Wales to include many other realms, peoples and cultures. It is a kind of Grand Expansion to include plausable kingdoms and some ahistorical ones. Plausable in the sence they had been existant kingdoms within the past 200 years, and ahistorical kingdoms which did not come into existance for many hundreds of years later, but the placement of which solved regional power vacuums.

    Included in this mod is:

    *The Welsh Expansion 1.0
    *Cultures:
    - Anglo-Saxon (from Saxon)
    - Breton (from Celtic)
    - Cornish (from Swedish)
    - Gaelic (renamed from Irish)
    - Norse-Gaelic (from Norwegian)
    - Norse (from Danish and merging Norwegian, Swedish,
    Danish)
    - Scots Gaelic (from Scottish)
    - Serb-Croat (from South Slavic)

    *Kingdoms:
    - Armenia
    - Aquitainia
    - Austria
    - Bavaria
    - Brittany
    - Finland
    - Lotharingia
    - Man and the Isles
    - Navarra ... is now recreatable.
    - Switzerland
    - the Germans... formerly Germany.
    - the Hellens...newly created.

    *Duchies:
    - Cornwall: In this scenario Codoc, the Cornish Earl of Cornwall, submited to Willaim and retained Cornwall in a simular manner as the Saxons of Northumbria and Mercia.
    - Northumberia from Cumberland.
    - the Aquitaine from Poiters
    - the Breton March (Rennes and Nantes)
    - Powys duchy added
    - the Scottish March (Berwick and Cumberland)
    - the Welsh March (Warwick), created from Shrewsbury, Gwent, Chester, Hereford, Glouchester.

    *counties
    - All castles removed from England
    - some counties removed from kingdoms to represent shifting borders between realms.

    *dynasties and rulers
    - Eadric the Wild added as he was Earl of Shrewsbury in 1066. During the Northern War Eadric was allied with Bleddyn ap Cynfyn Mathrafal of Gwynedd-Powys and Northumbria and Merica in the 1070's.
    - Saxon and Cornish dukes and counts given rebellious traid, William given realm duress
    - Sibylla d'Anjou 's age is now corrected in the Third Crusade Scenario. She was born in 1159 or 1160. She is also renamed Sibylla d'Anjou de Lusignan, and made queen of Jerusalem. As she is tagged for the de Lusignan dynasty and she can still have a male heir the dynasty will continue.
    - Constance of Brittany simularily was retaged to Angivine
    - Angivine dynasty renamed Plantagenet.
    - Henry II is now nicknamed Henry Fitz Empress
    - Empress Matilda, the elderly mother of Henry II, is now in game
    - Sibylla of Jerusalem can now trace her decent to her grandmother Queen Melisende and her great grandfather, Baldwin II of Jerusalem.

    *Alliances:
    - Northumberia - Lancaster
    - France - Scotland
    - England - Normandy - Brittany

    *Yet to do:
    - Welsh culture events based off of the Cyfraith Hywel and Welsh literature
    - Coats of Arms ... havent been able to update those in Wales yet, they are using the standard ones.
    - Code female succession, if you know how, please let me know!
    Last edited by Drachenfire; 26-03-2007 at 16:49.


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  3. #3
    Buckler of Wales Drachenfire's Avatar
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    Credits:

    Veldmaarschalk: For numerous and continous coaching and moding guidence!
    Llywelyn: For Research and GREATLY expanded Welsh family dynasties, Great Wit, and encouragement!
    Preformer: for Cornwall and the Cornish cultural names.
    Various others to list, once I go through the threads.
    Gigau for CoA updating!
    Last edited by Drachenfire; 10-03-2007 at 16:22.


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  4. #4
    Buckler of Wales Drachenfire's Avatar
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    yet another reservation


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  5. #5
    Buckler of Wales Drachenfire's Avatar
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    KK, here is a working list for events so far. I will work more on the list this weekend. I havent yet covered "bastard" children under Welsh law yet in this list, but will get to that shortly.

    Welsh Law events

    Codifying Laws:

    Event: Establishing laws:
    “Your people crave peace, prosperity, and justice!”
    You preside over the Senedd and codify laws.
    Results: (unknown at present)

    Laws of the Court

    Event1: Sarhad: an insult or injury, or the payment that was due to a person in the event of an insult or injury.
    “This courtier has given offense! Sarhad demands restitution”
    Result: “I would gladly pay the fine to restore my honor!”
    -offending courtier pays X amount, offended courtier receives X amount
    Result: “I spoke the truth, deal with it!”
    -offending courtier loses significant prestige and ruler given the option to exile courtier.

    Laws of the Land

    Law of Women:

    Event1 : When a female courtier receives a lust trait, a Amobr fee is paid to the Welsh lord. The Welsh held a more sanguine view towards premarital relations. “Amobr was a fee payable to the woman's lord on the loss of her virginity, whether on marriage or otherwise.”

    Event2 : When in a Welsh province a woman marries a man, a Cowyll fee is paid from the husband to the wife. “Cowyll was a payment due to the woman from her husband on the morning after the marriage, marking her transition from virgin to married woman.”

    Event3 : This is dependent on the event “a pretty wench catches your eye.” Each time this event fires for a Welshman, a follow-up event should fire where there is a percentage of discovery of the affair at court. If a child is produced by the affair then it should be an automatic discovery of the affair.
    • If the affair is discovered, then the wife receives a payment (Sarhad) from the husband for the affair and the husband loses prestige.
    • If another affair happens, then she receives another payment (Sarhad) from the husband, but at a higher amount with him losing more prestige.
    • On the third time the affair happens, the wife can divorce her husband and he pays a significant amount (Sarhad) and loses significant prestige and the couple is divorced. Because there is no way to represent a divorce, the spouse should “die” to represent retiring from court. With this, if one is playing a female ruler, it should be the non-titleholder who “dies.” I am thinking for the occurrences when a woman would be the ruler either by some future mod.

    Additionally, I think it might be amusing to add an event whereby if the wife discovers her husband in an affair, that she has the bed hauled out into the courtyard and set ablaze, much to the admiration of the court. This is what allegedly happened in the 13th century when Princess Joanna of Wales had discovered her husband Prince Llywelyn the Great having an affair.

    Event4 For those events where the husband discovers his wife having an affair, the option for her death should be removed. Additionally, she could produce a “bastard” too (currently I do not think this is coded in as it is for the husband). The options for a wife having an affair would be

    • A Sarhad payment from the wife to the husband and her loss of prestige (possibly his too, for not being able to satisfy his wife).
    • If the husband beats her, no payment is given, but possible loss of prestige by both wife and husband. His loss in prestige by the husband would represent that this would be a more extreme form of restitution of his honor.
    • Forgive and forget, loving reconciliation (though Sarhad could still be paid).
    Last edited by Drachenfire; 20-02-2007 at 05:57.


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  6. #6
    Field Marshal Llywelyn's Avatar
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    Neat.

    I know it's an homage, but I still think it should've been Here There Be Dragons. Then again, that's because it was the only version I'd ever heard of the phrase.

    Offhand thought, shouldn't Scotland be called Alba? In the alternative, if the Dunkeld dynasty came after Alba, you should prolly call it Scotia instead of Scots, since afaik that's only the name of the language.
    j.
    All Hail Eris! All Hail Discordia!
    The experience of our ancestors, ever incentives and aids to virtue, would never
    have inspired or saved a single soul, had not the loyalty, zeal, and diligence of writers
    triumphing over sloth transmitted them to posterity
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  7. #7
    Buckler of Wales Drachenfire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Llywelyn
    Neat.

    I know it's an homage, but I still think it should've been Here There Be Dragons. Then again, that's because it was the only version I'd ever heard of the phrase.

    Offhand thought, shouldn't Scotland be called Alba? In the alternative, if the Dunkeld dynasty came after Alba, you should prolly call it Scotia instead of Scots, since afaik that's only the name of the language.
    j.

    I liked the look of "King of Scots" more then "King of Alba." And for the Welsh title, Owain Gwynedd was the first ruler to use a pan-Welsh title as princeps Wallensium, followed after his death by Rhys of Deheubarth, so I felt there was precidence for this. Of corse, we will need to continue to work on this too, this isnt the end. Im going to try and reload now.


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  8. #8
    Field Marshal Llywelyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drachenfire
    I liked the look of "King of Scots" more then "King of Alba."
    Oh. [Ok.]

    On the subject of ridiculously large downloads, for future improvements maybe we could look for public domain recordings in Welsh (harps, bards, etc.) to include into the audio track. Again, not at all to slow down finally getting a whole version, but thinking towards the future.

    j.
    Last edited by Llywelyn; 08-06-2009 at 11:09.
    All Hail Eris! All Hail Discordia!
    The experience of our ancestors, ever incentives and aids to virtue, would never
    have inspired or saved a single soul, had not the loyalty, zeal, and diligence of writers
    triumphing over sloth transmitted them to posterity
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  9. #9
    Buckler of Wales Drachenfire's Avatar
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    OKOKOKOK!

    It should be ready. PLEASE download and give it a go, test it out. Remember this does not include the CoA yet, the CoA used are recycled in the game. Lets hope it works!!!! (I liked the Mary, Queen of Scots, and Robert, King of Scots look. I would LOVE to download Welsh inspired harp music!)


    Here Be Dragons 02-21 Download
    Last edited by Drachenfire; 21-02-2007 at 15:49.


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  10. #10
    Buckler of Wales Drachenfire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Llywelyn
    Neat.

    I know it's an homage, but I still think it should've been Here There Be Dragons. Then again, that's because it was the only version I'd ever heard of the phrase.

    Offhand thought, shouldn't Scotland be called Alba? In the alternative, if the Dunkeld dynasty came after Alba, you should prolly call it Scotia instead of Scots, since afaik that's only the name of the language.
    j.


    After researching on Wiki (Kingdom of Alba and Scottish styles ), I agree with you Llywelyn. When I return home from work, I shall correct the name from 'Scots' to 'Alban'. Thank you for pointing this out. Edit: but on further thought, then wouldnt this mean to change all titles into the native language? Mayhap for consistancy I shall leave it as Scots.
    Last edited by Drachenfire; 22-02-2007 at 04:32.


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  11. #11
    Uhmm.....

    I seem to have a problem with the mod. I can not seem to be able to install it correctly. Could someone give me instructions?
    Trust in the Lord Jesus Christ.

  12. #12
    Buckler of Wales Drachenfire's Avatar
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    First, make a copy of your origional files of corse. What I did was simply copy the origional CK folder in my paradox file and paste it inside the Paradox game file. Then renamed it "copy" or "HBD Mod"

    Secondly, I upload the mod and apply it to the second renamed copy, you should be given the option to send it to the specific saved files, once you do this, the mod will be written over the copied files, thus you are able to play from there.

    I am a novice modder, so I hope this was able to help you.


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  13. #13
    Field Marshal Llywelyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drachenfire
    Edit: but on further thought...
    Ok, I know it's nitpicky, but just to go through this again. (sigh )

    Not Alban.
    Not Scots.

    If you use the former, you'd need to edit the entire game into Gaelic.
    If you use the latter, you'd need to edit it into Middle English.

    In English, they'd be styled King of Alba.
    Or Scotland.
    Or Scotia. (kinda, it's Latin...)
    Or "the Scots."

    But neither of the two you're currently using,
    j.
    All Hail Eris! All Hail Discordia!
    The experience of our ancestors, ever incentives and aids to virtue, would never
    have inspired or saved a single soul, had not the loyalty, zeal, and diligence of writers
    triumphing over sloth transmitted them to posterity
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  14. #14
    Buckler of Wales Drachenfire's Avatar
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    Updated with coa for Kingdom of Wales, Duchy and County of Gwynedd, Duchy of Powys. Also minor county reassignments.

    I am interested in updating this for play as a Muslim, Pagan, and Jewish religon too. I shall look into this shortly.


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  15. #15
    Hi guys.
    Yesterday I wanted to play "Here be dragons" for the first time. Unfortunately , the game crushed right after startm giving me a "db/content error". Something went wrong with your files, I'am afraid, though I could not find the mistake.

  16. #16
    Buckler of Wales Drachenfire's Avatar
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    Croeso! Welcome Back!


    hummm.... this is the first i have heard of it thus far, and there are at least 4 downloads since the 10th update. What specifically did you read when it CTD?


    I will try and troubleshoot today when I get home.
    Last edited by Drachenfire; 13-03-2007 at 11:27.


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  17. #17
    Buckler of Wales Drachenfire's Avatar
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    Updated adding the Kingdom of Man and the Isles. I felt it important to add this kingdom, not only to possibly stand on its own, but to also compliment and boost the kingdoms of Scotland, Wales, Ireland, and possibly Norway too. Let me know if there are any issues.

    Preformer: Did you try it again?
    Last edited by Drachenfire; 14-03-2007 at 15:49.


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  18. #18
    Hi there.
    I tested the mod again, with a clean CK copy + 1.5 + IP1+2 + HERE BE DRAGONS. Again, the game crushed right after start, while "Initializing Globals" (message: "Error in DB. Do you still want to continue?" -- "Yes, heck, I WANT ... *CRUSH*).

    Bad news. The mod seems to be crushed.

    But ...

    I FOUND THE ERROR!

    It's in the db/country.csv file, at the end:

    U007;Brown;castillan;red_regular;gold_regular;X

    END;DarkBrown;@;yellow_regular;LightBlue;X
    It's the BLANK line. After erasing it, the mod worked fine. Just put it like this:

    U007;Brown;castillan;red_regular;gold_regular;X
    END;DarkBrown;@;yellow_regular;LightBlue;X
    without a blank line. That's all!
    Now I can test the mod, and in a week or two, I will get more information for the Cornish :-)
    Last edited by performer; 17-03-2007 at 13:16.

  19. #19
    Buckler of Wales Drachenfire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by performer
    Hi there.
    I tested the mod again, with a clean CK copy + 1.5 + IP1+2 + HERE BE DRAGONS. Again, the game crushed right after start, while "Initializing Globals" (message: "Error in DB. Do you still want to continue?" -- "Yes, heck, I WANT ... *CRUSH*).

    Bad news. The mod seems to be crushed.

    But ...

    I FOUND THE ERROR!




    It's in the db/country.csv file, at the end:



    It's the BLANK line. After erasing it, the mod worked fine. Just put it like this:



    without a blank line. That's all!
    Now I can test the mod, and in a week or two, I will get more information for the Cornish :-)

    Great spot! Ill correct now, surprising no one else reported this, though it could have been only with my last mod.



    EDIT: Was U007;Brown;castillan;red_regular;gold_regular;X
    the absolute last of the county colours? Because I have since extended this to U010.
    Last edited by Drachenfire; 17-03-2007 at 15:45.


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  20. #20
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