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Thread: Sengoku Mod Test

  1. #21
    Settsu no Kami Sakura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bismark776
    This mod looks really cool, its definetly something I'll be downloading and adding to the moddir that I generaly use. Have you considered using relatively common events that vastly increase revolt risk in a province or immediately cede provinces to create new nations as a way to represent the fact that daiymos came and went and could be born into it or rise to the status. If you really had to fight to keep order within your realm as well as conquering without, that would slow down the conquest and also allow for a greater representation of the instability of the period. Just my 2 cents though, I don't have anywhere near an MA or even a major in Japanese history so I could be way out of line here.
    Well, I have been trying to think of a way to represent the fall of clans (since 7 of the 22 clans starting in 1477 were overthrown by vassals before the end of the sengoku period). The specifics are still up in the air, though, and need experimentation with the engine. But I do want to have it in there as something other than the revolt event I currently have.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Sakura
    [*]added the "Closed/Open Society" policy slider, which is essentially a much nastier version of the Innovative/Narrowminded slider. The key elements here are that when moved to the left it severely limits tech growth (-5 should make a 0.8 tech group nation into roughly a 0.3 one) and reduces the number of diplomats received. Although its still very much a work in progress (I haven't yet decided what the right side benefits should be), I think it will be useful to simulate Sakoku and the internal orientation of Confucian states.[*]The Chinese tech group has been changed from 0.4 to 0.8
    WOW, this looks awesome other than the 2 things in the quotes.....i dont want to learn a new slider and also if i play your mod (which i plan) i will be adding it to my mod (for my own enjoyment, i wont distribute it that way. i will only distribute mine without your content). i also think that ming especialy, does not need any tech group increase. so these are things i will remove myself if i play your mod (again, only for my enjoyment). i hope you do not mind. the reason i want to mix your mod with mine once i start playing yours is so that i can see how my events play out while playing / testing your content. please send me a PM if you have any problems with this. i will probably start playing your mod in a week or so.

    I tried playing Japan but it just was not any fun. i tried two times. the first i concentrated on making a foothold in the east and it just sucked. the second i tried to colonize south america and just gave up....LOL this will make Japan interesting.
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  3. #23
    Settsu no Kami Sakura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Zoidberg
    That's not the really, really weird part. I also had an event that had no name or description, and only one choice that apparently gave me a casus belli on every single country in the game (discovered or not)
    Okay, this has been found and fixed. There was a typo in the event. Who knew that a single s could be so important?

  4. #24
    Settsu no Kami Sakura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ayeshteni
    gah, you got there ahead of me...



    Ayeshteni
    What's the bug?

  5. #25
    Settsu no Kami Sakura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darken
    WOW, this looks awesome other than the 2 things in the quotes.....i dont want to learn a new slider and also if i play your mod (which i plan) i will be adding it to my mod (for my own enjoyment, i wont distribute it that way. i will only distribute mine without your content). i also think that ming especialy, does not need any tech group increase. so these are things i will remove myself if i play your mod (again, only for my enjoyment). i hope you do not mind. the reason i want to mix your mod with mine once i start playing yours is so that i can see how my events play out while playing / testing your content. please send me a PM if you have any problems with this. i will probably start playing your mod in a week or so.

    I tried playing Japan but it just was not any fun. i tried two times. the first i concentrated on making a foothold in the east and it just sucked. the second i tried to colonize south america and just gave up....LOL this will make Japan interesting.
    Feel free. I don't mind what you do my event on your computer. I should say, though, that Ming's tech speed isn't increased by my mod.

  6. #26
    humorless pedant joak's Avatar
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    This looks really cool, I'm going to have to give it a try at some point

    I just skimmed some of the later comments, so forgive me if this question is irrelevant, but have you thought about giving the starting warlords a custom form of government that gives them a huge manpower boost? And then returning to a normal government when a unified Japan is formed? This might work to reconcile the huge armies that could face each other with semi-balanced numbers for when you decide to invade Korea.

  7. #27
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    Very cool. But the events are too much, your whole game is determined by what events you get early. You get Mobilization, You win. You get the one with the 12 Regiment Revolt, Game over.

    I also reccomend that you colour the flags the same colour the facton colour, because all white (with emblems) is kinda boring.
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  8. #28
    Settsu no Kami Sakura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Verenti
    Very cool. But the events are too much, your whole game is determined by what events you get early. You get Mobilization, You win. You get the one with the 12 Regiment Revolt, Game over.

    I also reccomend that you colour the flags the same colour the facton colour, because all white (with emblems) is kinda boring.
    Not surprisingly, I disagree

    Every daimyo gets Mobilization during the beginning of the game (it has a mtth of 1 month), so there's no chance really involved there. The revolts are nasty, but are a necessary part of the period, and not, imho, an insurmountable obstacle.

    I'm still playing with the faction colors (some are too similar) and I kind of like the simple black on white.

  9. #29
    Settsu no Kami Sakura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joak
    This looks really cool, I'm going to have to give it a try at some point

    I just skimmed some of the later comments, so forgive me if this question is irrelevant, but have you thought about giving the starting warlords a custom form of government that gives them a huge manpower boost? And then returning to a normal government when a unified Japan is formed? This might work to reconcile the huge armies that could face each other with semi-balanced numbers for when you decide to invade Korea.
    That's almost exactly what I did. The starting daimyo government type conveys a 150% manpower bonus, a 300% forcelimit bonus, and a 150% tax bonus. Then, when they reach 8 provinces (about 40% of Japan), they are changed to a government that is pretty much the same as the default feudal monarchy. These numbers are things I've been playing around with as I've worked on the mod. Initially it was a 300% manpower bonus, but I've found that the biggest limit to expansion was financial. I had way more men available than I could afford. I'm thinking of trying out 200/300/300 bonuses next.

  10. #30
    Settsu no Kami Sakura's Avatar
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    Okay, v0.51 is up (same address as that given in the OP)

    Changes from v0.50
    • fixed bug in event causing CB on all the world
    • fixed dates in Hojo, Date, and Ichijo monarch lists
    • altered feudal daimyo government bonuses to give 200% manpower, 300% Support Limit, 300% Global Tax
    • increased number of provinces needed to invoke government change
    • reduced revolt value of Gekokujo from 3 to 2 (same as Ikko Ikki)
    • removed JAP cores to prevent JAP as a revolter
    • added 'Do Nothing' option to Puppet Shogun event
    • added at least some temporary explanatory text to all Sengoku-era events

    Change that was already done but I forgot to mention it:
    • Changed Japanese flag to the old-fashioned sun flag (EU3's flag wasn't created until the late 19th Century)

    I only played about 10 years with the further boosted feudal daimyo government, but I liked what I saw. It was a very unpredictable game (Hosokawa expanded at first, but by 1481 both Hosokawa and Miyoshi had been eliminated!), with lots of provinces changing hands I especially liked seeing the AI using revolts to its advantage by attacking weakened enemies. Anyway, give it a try and let me know if you think the added money unbalances anything.

  11. #31
    The one who lurks Billdo's Avatar
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    Downloaded and tried v.5 and found it somewhat enjoyable. Something that I found was that the AI seems to ignore building armies preferring to just recruit mercenaries, and seems to want to concentrate on building large fleets.

    I started with the state all the way on the southern tip and within 4 years had taken all of the Kyūshū island. However it seemed that I had been lagging behind in building a navy and since all I had was one core I could only build one or two ships a year. The AI seemed to be very active building ships and had a navy of 7 or 8 ships to my 3 or 4. Because of this I was blocked from crossing onto the big island and continuing my conquests. Maybe some way of adding cores so that you can build a bigger fleet and also avoid declarations without Casus belli.

    One other side note, after about a year I saw a Spanish ship sail by, just wondering if somehow it had been placed nearby or the AI had already gotten all the way to Japan by then?
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  12. #32
    Settsu no Kami Sakura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billdo
    Downloaded and tried v.5 and found it somewhat enjoyable. Something that I found was that the AI seems to ignore building armies preferring to just recruit mercenaries, and seems to want to concentrate on building large fleets.
    I've noticed this. The increase to taxes in v0.51 did seem to increase the size of the standing armies they had, so hopefully that'll help. I'm annoyed by the whole fleet building thing, as well, but I think that's an AI issue that I can't really change. I haven't altered the initial Japanese policy slider settings yet, so perhaps moving those towards land would help. In a very early version of the mod I had an event that gave each clan 2 cav, 3 inf, and 3 ships to start off with. Unfortunately, the unit creation effects don't seem to work very well, and the event would work most of the time, but make the game CTD occasionally. That's when I created the current Mobilization event. It's possible that created an event that only dealt with 1 clan at a time might work better. I'll give it a shot. Perhaps if they're given 3 ships they'll stop building more.

    I started with the state all the way on the southern tip and within 4 years had taken all of the Kyūshū island. However it seemed that I had been lagging behind in building a navy and since all I had was one core I could only build one or two ships a year. The AI seemed to be very active building ships and had a navy of 7 or 8 ships to my 3 or 4. Because of this I was blocked from crossing onto the big island and continuing my conquests. Maybe some way of adding cores so that you can build a bigger fleet and also avoid declarations without Casus belli.
    I've played as Shimazu (the clan you mentioned), and I agree that it's a challenge to get a foothold on the mainland. To tell you the truth, I enjoyed it, as it seemed to me to differentiate the clans on the islands from the free-for-all on Honshu. I agree that the lack of cores can put a real brake on expansion, and I'll think about it. I don't want to make it too easy to get cores, since doing so would really reduce the significance of holding Kyoto.

    One other side note, after about a year I saw a Spanish ship sail by, just wondering if somehow it had been placed nearby or the AI had already gotten all the way to Japan by then?
    Not caused by me, as far as I know.

  13. #33
    Settsu no Kami Sakura's Avatar
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    I'll also add something to the next readme explaining that the farther from the center of Japan a clan is, the harder the road they have to go.

  14. #34
    Jehanne's Slave Ayeshteni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sakura
    What's the bug?
    just that it seems strange. The event 'seems' to indicate that you get a whole hooch of casus belli against yourself if you choose option 2. However, if it is the way Paradox has set up the text then that needs looking at (somewhere else).

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  15. #35
    General Finnish Dragon's Avatar
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    I tested this mod as well and I liked it. I have played old Koei games which partly explains that. I hope that Paradox will include the best mods in the future patches and this one should be included. IMO, this is the best simulation of Sengoku Jidai in Paradox games I have ever seen.

    If player starts Japan in 1453 then he should have an option in roughly 1467 to choose to play one daimyo family. That event should also deactive Japan as a nation until one family controls the entire island. If any foreign nation would conquer Japanese provinces then there should be a high risk of revolts as long as those provinces would have Shinto as their religion. There should be possible to convert to Catholic faith but the chance for that should be quite slim but it should provide some foreign help(money, techs?) for Catholic daimyos.

    I noticed that there were two typos. First was the stability increase message:"our realmfs. The second was Hosokowa. AFAIK, it should be Hosokawa. I also wonder if that Feudal Daimyo government should be adjusted to have negative bonus on naval techs, merchants and colonists?

    I noticed that there were only two border dispute events from 1467 to 1510. I would hope to see more those events because it would make conquering a bit more profitable.

    Anyway, well done Sakura. I like to play your mod. It will give another point of view to play as Japanese daimyo.

  16. #36
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    Did you consider splitting the Japanese off from the china techgroup so that they could have different techspeed modifiers? This would also enable you to ensure that Japan got only Japanese military units.
    If anyone wants to use any events, decisions, etc that I post here in their mod, then feel free. All I ask is that you massage my ego by saying what you are doing with it in a reply to the thread you find it on.

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  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ayeshteni
    just that it seems strange. The event 'seems' to indicate that you get a whole hooch of casus belli against yourself if you choose option 2. However, if it is the way Paradox has set up the text then that needs looking at (somewhere else).
    Okay. The event gives all other extant daimyo a CB on you for destroying the shogunate. It works properly, so I don't know why the text isn't more clear.

  18. #38
    Settsu no Kami Sakura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finnish Dragon
    I tested this mod as well and I liked it. I have played old Koei games which partly explains that. I hope that Paradox will include the best mods in the future patches and this one should be included. IMO, this is the best simulation of Sengoku Jidai in Paradox games I have ever seen.
    Thank you.

    If player starts Japan in 1453 then he should have an option in roughly 1467 to choose to play one daimyo family. That event should also deactive Japan as a nation until one family controls the entire island. If any foreign nation would conquer Japanese provinces then there should be a high risk of revolts as long as those provinces would have Shinto as their religion. There should be possible to convert to Catholic faith but the chance for that should be quite slim but it should provide some foreign help(money, techs?) for Catholic daimyos.
    The idea of having an event that would allow a Japanese player to switch over to another clan when the Onin War event hits was my original intention, though I had to ultimately abandon it since the only way I could think of accomplishing it would have various oddities to it, such as a continued Ashikaga ruler.

    I think that in v0.51 I've removed Japan as a revolter when playing after 1477. I'll do the same as part of the Onin War event so its eliminated when playing from 1453.

    The high revolt risk to foreign occupation is a good idea; I'll look into it.

    There's already a "Christian Daimyo" event that goes off about 15 years after a daimyo receives the Tanegashima event. If a daimyo chooses to convert his religion changes to Catholic, he loses 3 stability, and he moves into the Latin tech group. It's currently set at 20% chance of acceptance, but I think I'm going to lower that to 10%. I was thinking it would be nice to have another event that keys off of a daimyo's Christianity, such as "Papal Interference" or some such, but I haven't given it all that much thought yet.

    I noticed that there were two typos. First was the stability increase message:"our realmfs. The second was Hosokowa. AFAIK, it should be Hosokawa. I also wonder if that Feudal Daimyo government should be adjusted to have negative bonus on naval techs, merchants and colonists?
    Good catch on the Hosokawa typo. I can't believe I missed that. There are a number of minor typos, such as Všnern as V?nern, caused because of my computer being set to the Japanese language. They should all be fixed before my next big release.

    I'm not sure that the Feudal Daimyo government needs the changes. I haven't ever seen them colonize anywhere, and I don't really see a problem with the other two things mentioned. I am intending to restrict all 3 as part of Sakoku once I implement that.

    I noticed that there were only two border dispute events from 1467 to 1510. I would hope to see more those events because it would make conquering a bit more profitable.
    I'll be implementing two new events in the next version I release. The first, will go off when one of your neighbors has low stability and mediocre leader stats and you have better ones (shouldn't be that rare) and will give you a core (representing one of their vassals switching allegiance to you). Not really all that historical in some ways, but then again the whole core, non-core thing doesn't really make sense with Japan anyway. The other event will be for the Shogunal controller, giving him some money in exchange for granting another daimyo a core on a province he owns but does not have a core on.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sakura
    Not surprisingly, I disagree

    Every daimyo gets Mobilization during the beginning of the game (it has a mtth of 1 month), so there's no chance really involved there. The revolts are nasty, but are a necessary part of the period, and not, imho, an insurmountable obstacle.

    I'm still playing with the faction colors (some are too similar) and I kind of like the simple black on white.

    No, Seriously, before you get more than one province, the revolt is game breaking. My First game went like this as Ashina: I built a calvary, Made a few royal marriages, Sengoku Jidai hit, I had a revolt wipe out my army and Uesugi, Takeda and Hojo immediately declared war because my strength level dropped, The Mobilization event fired and the revolt sieged my only province for about half a year then the Hojo-Uesugi-Takeda Alliance walked in, defeated the revolt and finnished their siege and annex me. I literally couldn't do anything because the revolt happened within a month or two of the start of the game.

    My other game was quite the oppisite, As the Asakura clan, I blitzed Kyoto, which gave me the money to crush the Oda and eventually take central Japan which gave me the Tax and Manpower to overpower the entire country in a few decades.

    And the flags becomes increasing hard to differentiate when zoomed out. Especially considering how many of them are just three or for symbols in a cluster.

    edit: Also there doesn't seem to be any flags for the Asakura Unification.

    edit2: This was all with v.5
    Last edited by Verenti; 11-02-2007 at 03:00.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lambert Simnel
    Did you consider splitting the Japanese off from the china techgroup so that they could have different techspeed modifiers? This would also enable you to ensure that Japan got only Japanese military units.
    I've been considering doing it so that I could create unique Japanese military units, yes. In my mod Japan and China already have different techspeeds (due to the Closed/Open Society slider).

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