End of Tribalism Events.

**Duke_of_BOOM!** · 08-02-2007 17:27

Paganism -> Protestantism

Code:

###Pagan to Protestantism

country_event = {

	id = 99995
	
		trigger = {
			OR = {
				AND = {
					advisor = theologian
					ADM = 6 #Ability to effect change
				}
				theologian = 5
			}
			OR = {
				religion = animism
				religion = shamanism
			}
			NOT = { idea = divine_supremacy }
			NOT = { idea = deus_vult }
			defender_of_faith = no
			NOT = {	innovative_narrowminded = 3 }
			any_neighbor_province = {
				religion = protestant
				who = THIS value = 100
			}
		}
	
		mean_time_to_happen = {
			months = 360

			modifier = {
				factor = 0.95
				ADM = 8
			}
			modifier = {
				factor = 0.85
				ADM = 9
			}
			modifier = {
				factor = 0.9
				theologian = 5
			}
			modifier = {
				factor = 0.9
				theologian = 6
			}
			modifier = {
				factor = 0.9
				NOT = {	innovative_narrowminded = -1 }
			}
			modifier = {
				factor = 0.9
				NOT = {	innovative_narrowminded = -2 }
			}
			modifier = {
				factor = 0.9
				NOT = {	innovative_narrowminded = -3 }
			}
			modifier = {
				factor = 1.1
				innovative_narrowminded = 1
			}
				modifier = {
				factor = 1.1
				innovative_narrowminded = 2
			}
			modifier = {
				factor = 0.8
				idea = humanist_tolerance
			}
			modifier = {
				factor = 1.1
				stability = 3
			}
			modifier = {
				factor = 1.05
				stability = 2
			}
			modifier = {
				factor = 1.05
				stability = 1
			}			
			modifier = {
				factor = 0.95
				stability = -1
			}
			modifier = {
				factor = 0.95
				stability = -2
			}
			modifier = {
				factor = 0.5
				has_country_flag = conversion_momentum
			}
			modifier = {
				factor = 2.0
				OR = {
					government = tribal_despotism
					government = tribal_federation
					government = tribal_democracy
				}
			}
		}
	
		title = "A Question of Faith: Protestantism"
		desc = "Whether from political nessicity or true spiritual belief, sometimes a pagan people adopt a foriegn faith."
	
		option = {
			name = "Adopt Protestantism"
			ai_chance = { factor = 10 }
			religion = protestant
			capital_scope = { religion = protestant }
			stability = -3 #Major disorder, and resistance to change.
			set_country_flag = winds_of_change
		}
		option = {
			name = "Keep our Traditional Faith."
			ai_chance = { factor = 90 }
			stability = 1 
		}
}

**Duke_of_BOOM!** · 08-02-2007 18:55

Pagan -> Sunni

Code:

###Pagan to Sunnism

country_event = {

	id = 99994
	
		trigger = {
			OR = {
				AND = {
					advisor = theologian
					ADM = 6 #Ability to effect change
				}
				theologian = 5
			}
			OR = {
				religion = animism
				religion = shamanism
			}
			NOT = { idea = divine_supremacy }
			NOT = { idea = deus_vult }
			defender_of_faith = no
			NOT = {	innovative_narrowminded = 3 }
			any_neighbor_province = {
				religion = Sunni
				who = THIS value = 100
			}
		}
	
		mean_time_to_happen = {
			months = 360

			modifier = {
				factor = 0.95
				ADM = 8
			}
			modifier = {
				factor = 0.85
				ADM = 9
			}
			modifier = {
				factor = 0.9
				theologian = 5
			}
			modifier = {
				factor = 0.9
				theologian = 6
			}
			modifier = {
				factor = 0.9
				NOT = {	innovative_narrowminded = -1 }
			}
			modifier = {
				factor = 0.9
				NOT = {	innovative_narrowminded = -2 }
			}
			modifier = {
				factor = 0.9
				NOT = {	innovative_narrowminded = -3 }
			}
			modifier = {
				factor = 1.1
				innovative_narrowminded = 1
			}
				modifier = {
				factor = 1.1
				innovative_narrowminded = 2
			}
			modifier = {
				factor = 0.8
				idea = humanist_tolerance
			}
			modifier = {
				factor = 1.1
				stability = 3
			}
			modifier = {
				factor = 1.05
				stability = 2
			}
			modifier = {
				factor = 1.05
				stability = 1
			}			
			modifier = {
				factor = 0.95
				stability = -1
			}
			modifier = {
				factor = 0.95
				stability = -2
			}
			modifier = {
				factor = 0.5
				has_country_flag = conversion_momentum
			}
			modifier = {
				factor = 2.0
				OR = {
					government = tribal_despotism
					government = tribal_federation
					government = tribal_democracy
				}
			}
		}
	
		title = "A Question of Faith: Sunnism"
		desc = "Whether from political nessicity or true spiritual belief, sometimes a pagan people adopt a foriegn faith."
	
		option = {
			name = "Adopt Sunnism"
			ai_chance = { factor = 10 }
			religion = sunni
			capital_scope = { religion = sunni }
			technology_group = muslim
			stability = -3 #Major disorder, and resistance to change. 
			set_country_flag = winds_of_change
		}
		option = {
			name = "Keep our Traditional Faith."
			ai_chance = { factor = 90 }
			stability = 1 
		}
}

Pagan -> Shia

Code:

###Pagan to Sunnism

country_event = {

	id = 99993
	
		trigger = {
			OR = {
				AND = {
					advisor = theologian
					ADM = 6 #Ability to effect change
				}
				theologian = 5
			}
			OR = {
				religion = animism
				religion = shamanism
			}
			NOT = { idea = divine_supremacy }
			NOT = { idea = deus_vult }
			defender_of_faith = no
			NOT = {	innovative_narrowminded = 3 }
			any_neighbor_province = {
				religion = shia
				who = THIS value = 100
			}
		}
	
		mean_time_to_happen = {
			months = 360

			modifier = {
				factor = 0.95
				ADM = 8
			}
			modifier = {
				factor = 0.85
				ADM = 9
			}
			modifier = {
				factor = 0.9
				theologian = 5
			}
			modifier = {
				factor = 0.9
				theologian = 6
			}
			modifier = {
				factor = 0.9
				NOT = {	innovative_narrowminded = -1 }
			}
			modifier = {
				factor = 0.9
				NOT = {	innovative_narrowminded = -2 }
			}
			modifier = {
				factor = 0.9
				NOT = {	innovative_narrowminded = -3 }
			}
			modifier = {
				factor = 1.1
				innovative_narrowminded = 1
			}
				modifier = {
				factor = 1.1
				innovative_narrowminded = 2
			}
			modifier = {
				factor = 0.8
				idea = humanist_tolerance
			}
			modifier = {
				factor = 1.1
				stability = 3
			}
			modifier = {
				factor = 1.05
				stability = 2
			}
			modifier = {
				factor = 1.05
				stability = 1
			}			
			modifier = {
				factor = 0.95
				stability = -1
			}
			modifier = {
				factor = 0.95
				stability = -2
			}
			modifier = {
				factor = 0.5
				has_country_flag = conversion_momentum
			}
			modifier = {
				factor = 2.0
				OR = {
					government = tribal_despotism
					government = tribal_federation
					government = tribal_democracy
				}
			}
		}
	
		title = "A Question of Faith: Shiasm"
		desc = "Whether from political nessicity or true spiritual belief, sometimes a pagan people adopt a foriegn faith."
	
		option = {
			name = "Adopt Shiasm"
			ai_chance = { factor = 10 }
			religion = shia
			capital_scope = { religion = shia }
			technology_group = muslim
			stability = -3 #Major disorder, and resistance to change.
			set_country_flag = winds_of_change
		}
		option = {
			name = "Keep our Traditional Faith."
			ai_chance = { factor = 90 }
			stability = 1 
		}
}

**Imrryran** · 08-02-2007 19:39

Shouldn't the MTTH be quite bigger ? Forming a centralised state from a tribal state is the sort of thing which take decades.

**Duke_of_BOOM!** · 08-02-2007 19:56

Originally Posted by Imrryran

Shouldn't the MTTH be quite bigger ? Forming a centralised state from a tribal state is the sort of thing which take decades.

In itself, yes. Decades at least. My thinking is that the slider settings represent a major societal shift that take place over at least century (150+ years for New World peoples) towards conditions that would allow the formation of a state, and an excellent leader just takes the final step.

I am undecided on this, perhaps a bit longer is needed... say 240?

**Duke_of_BOOM!** · 08-02-2007 21:02

Religious conversion from Pagan are up, and as best as I can tell, working.

**Verenti** · 08-02-2007 23:23

We're talking about an exceptional leader reforming his people. It can't be too long to fire, else he'll croak.

**Duke_of_BOOM!** · 10-02-2007 01:40

New revision up.

A distinction between transition from Tribal Democracy and Tribal Federation has been made for Merchant Republic. There is an added "boost" for getting out of tribalism by adopting a foreign religion (nothing more than a new openness to ideas), at least until hiring decent advisers is made easier. Tweaked slider conditions, as I miscounted slider moves it is now where I want them to be.

**Lord_Richmond** · 10-02-2007 17:10

In your tribal - despotic monachy event, you have under the triggers govenment = despotic_monachy. Shouldnt that be tribal despotic (not sure off the top of my head how to write it for the document) for the event to fire properly?

Once the triggers are met, will the event fire even if the leader with 7+ dies and a new leader comes to the throne? 30 years seems a long time, and esp when most will prob be in a tribal govenment, 60 years would be impossible to keep the guy around.

Also, for the religous events, if your leader with admin 7+ dies, and a new one of admin 7+ comes to the throne does it carry on or does the event reset the time.

**dharper** · 10-02-2007 17:31

Originally Posted by Lord_Richmond

Once the triggers are met, will the event fire even if the leader with 7+ dies and a new leader comes to the throne? 30 years seems a long time, and esp when most will prob be in a tribal govenment, 60 years would be impossible to keep the guy around.

That's not how MTTH works.

Mean Time To Happen means the average length of time for something to happen...but it's actually handled by taking a tiny, tiny chance for it to happen each and every day that the conditions are met. In theory, that means an event could happen on Day 1...but it also means it could never fire. The average length of time it takes for it to happen is...the MTTH.

As a simple example, imagine the MTTH was 1 month (30 days). That means that after 30 days, half of all countries with the right trigger conditions will have had the event. The chance per day can be worked out with a mathematical formula, but it's smaller than you'd think at first - many people will assume the chance is 50%/30, but that doesn't make sense mathematically. (If you have a 50% chance for two days, that gives you a 75% chance that the event happens in two days...or an 87.5% chance in three). You actually end up with tiny, tiny chances for events to happen any day.

...All of which means that the game will check this event every day that you have that great monarch...and if it doesn't happen in his lifetime, it'll check again once you have another great monarch. There's no timer, it's not "counting down," it's simply playing the lottery. Each and every single day. And you're hoping to get lucky.

**Lord_Richmond** · 10-02-2007 17:49

Ok, I did sort of get that. I knew that it could fire earler or later (that it was down to probabilities). However, I was unsure whether the probaility of it firing got more and more certain as time went by (so the probability of the event firing at the mean time was 50%, independant of the time passed (as in the event probaility/day was now 50%)). So you are saying it doesnt do this, each day it is the same probability as the day before. Of course the probabiliy of something firing once in a million chances is much greater than in 10 chances, so of course as time goes by you will get it eventually, but the probaility/day doesnt change.

Ok, thanks I understand it now.

**Duke_of_BOOM!** · 10-02-2007 18:00

Originally Posted by Lord_Richmond

In your tribal - despotic monachy event, you have under the triggers govenment = despotic_monachy. Shouldnt that be tribal despotic (not sure off the top of my head how to write it for the document) for the event to fire properly?

Once the triggers are met, will the event fire even if the leader with 7+ dies and a new leader comes to the throne? 30 years seems a long time, and esp when most will prob be in a tribal govenment, 60 years would be impossible to keep the guy around.

Also, for the religous events, if your leader with admin 7+ dies, and a new one of admin 7+ comes to the throne does it carry on or does the event reset the time.

Yup should be tribal_despotism.

Also in testing, the Question of Faith series should be very hard to fire, but as the MTTH is so high, (720 with the tribalism multiplier) I am lowering the ADM to 6. With this setting the event has been reliably (three tests) firing on average of 150+ years after relations have been built up to 100.

**Duke_of_BOOM!** · 11-02-2007 20:13

One more change, to make it somewhat easier for states that have an advance technology group to get out of tribalism.

**kanukki** · 06-03-2007 12:57

Originally Posted by Duke_of_BOOM!

In itself, yes. Decades at least. My thinking is that the slider settings represent a major societal shift that take place over at least century (150+ years for New World peoples) towards conditions that would allow the formation of a state, and an excellent leader just takes the final step.

I am undecided on this, perhaps a bit longer is needed... say 240?

Instead of increasing MTTH, I think the key ingredient that is missing in the 'end of tribalism' events is a reference to government tech lvl. Wouldn't it be technically possible for a country to convert to Noble Republic, for example, even before reaching the appropriate govt tech? I believe the other mod that allows transition govt types between tribal and monarchy has rather serious govt tech lvl requirements (min 8, iirc) before these are possible. Countries who are serious about changing forms of government first have to know what is involved in those forms. It is only logical to require a commitment to improving government through higher govt tech levels. This would also, I believe, reduce the need for increasing MTTH since the delay in gaining the necessary tech lvls would sufficiently balance the time required before the event fires.

A second, less critical, issue is that I would increase the stability hits for these transitions. Moving out of tribal despotism is a far more fundamental shift than other types of government change. This will piss off the entire power base of different tribal and clan leaders, many of whom will decide to reject central power and keep their own local rule. I'd say a -5 stability hit, and perhaps additional global revolt modifiers and/or increases in nationalism.

Thanks for developing this event chain. I think that it's really needed in the game, and I hope you take these points as a constructive to improve it yet further.

**Pishtaco** · 06-03-2007 18:34

Have you thought about events for the end of tribalism in the other direction, along the lines of the Aztecs, Incas, Mamelukes, Steppe Khanates, and maybe Timurids?

Something like this: suppose country A comes to occupy a province next to country B. A has a reasonably high government tech, is not tribal, is in the latin, eastern or muslim techgroup, and has some territorial ambitions (has deus vult or qftnw but not sharp commercial practices). B is tribal and has a poor leader. Then there is an event "Renegade tribal leaders ally with powerful foreigners" that gives A CBs on some border provinces and on B's capital, and also sets some kind of "time of troubles" flag for B leading to civil wars. This *ought* to give the AI a good chance of taking B out.

You could make it so that B gets to leave tribalism if it manages to survive all this.

Another thought is some potentially country-dissolving civil war events for tribal empires that get to big, perhaps to replace the Timurid collapse events in EU2.

**taemyr** · 08-03-2007 00:44

Originally Posted by Duke_of_BOOM!

Yes, in this case it is. Take for example this section:

Code:

OR = { 
	AND = {  
		DIP = 7 
		MIL = 6 
	} 
	AND = {  
		DIP = 6 
		MIL = 7 
	}
}

You could write this as:

Code:

DIP = 6
MIL = 6
OR = {
     DIP = 7
     MIL = 7 
}
}

Essentially saying both diplomacy and military needs to be at least 6, and one of them needs to be at least 7.

**Duke_of_BOOM!** · 10-03-2007 17:57

Originally Posted by kanukki

Instead of increasing MTTH, I think the key ingredient that is missing in the 'end of tribalism' events is a reference to government tech lvl. Wouldn't it be technically possible for a country to convert to Noble Republic, for example, even before reaching the appropriate govt tech? I believe the other mod that allows transition govt types between tribal and monarchy has rather serious govt tech lvl requirements (min 8, iirc) before these are possible. Countries who are serious about changing forms of government first have to know what is involved in those forms. It is only logical to require a commitment to improving government through higher govt tech levels. This would also, I believe, reduce the need for increasing MTTH since the delay in gaining the necessary tech lvls would sufficiently balance the time required before the event fires.

Well, the problem I keep hitting with the tech requirement is that hitting say Gov't 3 is very, very hard, for New World or African tech groups (best I have been able to do was some time in the mid 18th cen, and that's with abandoning other research altogether.

A second, less critical, issue is that I would increase the stability hits for these transitions. Moving out of tribal despotism is a far more fundamental shift than other types of government change. This will piss off the entire power base of different tribal and clan leaders, many of whom will decide to reject central power and keep their own local rule. I'd say a -5 stability hit, and perhaps additional global revolt modifiers and/or increases in nationalism.

Great idea, more dissent is needed.

**TKaz84** · 10-03-2007 20:32

Could you please put all of these new events into a zip file or something and post that? That would make everything much easier to download.

**ulmont** · 10-03-2007 20:51

Originally Posted by Duke_of_BOOM!

Well, the problem I keep hitting with the tech requirement is that hitting say Gov't 3 is very, very hard, for New World or African tech groups (best I have been able to do was some time in the mid 18th cen, and that's with abandoning other research altogether.

I wouldn't worry about that...a quick look at the 1453 start shows any number of nations currently in government types they won't research for a while (Administrative Monarchies and Merchant Republics abound).

**jdrou** · 11-03-2007 16:56

Originally Posted by taemyr

You could write this as:

Code:

DIP = 6
MIL = 6
OR = {
     DIP = 7
     MIL = 7 
}
}

Essentially saying both diplomacy and military needs to be at least 6, and one of them needs to be at least 7.

Yes, I believe that would work and it looks a bit cleaner.

**Zhou Yu** · 22-03-2007 00:30

Is there a downloadable release of this- or is the intent that we should copy/paste into the events files?

I'd love to get a bit more civilization as Ethiopia.

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