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Thread: Burgundy - Taking a chance...

  1. #1
    Fighting the Boredom

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    Burgundy - Taking a chance...

    Burgundy
    EU2 1.09 (Mac) - AGCEEP 1.51

    I've been undertaking and completing mostly EU1 AAR's prior to this one recently. However, EU1 is all but dead in the water with regards to AAR's, so i have decided to finally play and write an EU2 AAR. I am not very good at EU2 so i chose a nation i felt would suit my tastes and playing style. I knew i would fail amazingly with a minor, and also i didn't want an 'easy' major power, so i chose a power i considered to be a reasonable compromise. I also knew that the AGCEEP team had done some good work on this. I also love the idea of a surviving (and indeed, thriving) Burgundian kingdom. Anyway my broad aims are as follows.
    • Create the foundations for a strong and reasonable sized Burgundian kingdom. No WC as such but no three province thing either...
    • Never 'become' France.
    • Undertake at least a little colonisation.
    • Win the game on VP's (if possible)

    Hopefully it won't be too boring to read... i don't write narrative and try to keep a clean and organised AAR. Some people might dislike that - but i'm hoping most will appreciate the screenshots at least.
    Last edited by Languish; 07-02-2007 at 06:56.

  2. #2
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    Part 1. Dynastic Struggle.

    Burgundy in 1419 was a well suited nation to take advantage of the chaos occuring in what is now France. The greatest threats to Burgundy were both France itself, to the north, and the southern realms of Dauphiné. It wasn't long before a brief war was fought and a stalemate achieved (Fig.1). For a short moment it seemed that Burgundy was doomed to failure when the chance to inherit the realms of France presented itself (Fig.2). Burgundy was transformed from a greatly weakened duchy to a significant kingdom in Northern France.

    In 1426 Hainault is added to this slowly expanding kingdom, as Burgundy feels bold enough to proclaim the independance of Orleannais. The following year a build up of soldiers begins in anticipation of war with England. The war is brief, but thankfully sucessful, especially so after the acquisition of the profitable trading centre of Flandern (Fig.3). After this war the rulers of Burgundy focused on improving the infrastructure of the lands with the promotion of tax collectors. In 1435, a scottish held Zeeland sucessfully rebelled, and joined itself to Burgundy for safety (Fig.4).


    Fig. 1 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Fig. 2 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Fig. 3 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Fig. 4
    Last edited by Languish; 06-02-2007 at 21:44.

  3. #3
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    Part 2. Growth through struggle.

    * Note. I was suffering a serious and regular CTD every year at 1436 which was giving me some serious headaches. Thankfully this is a well known problem with the Mac version of the AGCEEP - which was fixed for me after a quick enquiry.

    Peace was not to last long in the war torn lands of France. In 1438 England renewed her quarrel with Burgundy over the claim to the throne of France and declared war drawing in the entirety of the british isles and most of Northern France. This was to prove a costly gamble by the english. By August that year Paris had fallen, by december Calais and by January Normandy as well. Despite a minor setback, with Normandy being recaptured by the English, it was soon captured again by the Burgundians who pressed for favourable peace. Normandy and Calais were handed over to the victorious burgundians in the Treat of Paris in October 1441 (Fig.1).

    In January 1441 Luxembourg was purchased and by May 1443 annexed to the growing Burgundian domains (Fig.2). A consolidation exercise is undertaken to secure these new domains with the appointment of tax collectors, and the creation of a fortress in Flandern, to secure vital funds from trading. Unexpectedly a pretender to the throne, from Mainz, surfaces. The effect is a rapid drop in relations between the two kingdoms and, ultimately, war. The war is brief, as expected, and Mainz is all but destroyed. By October 1447, barely a few months after war, Mainz is annexed then freed as a loyal vassal to Burgundy (Fig.3).

    Attention returns once again to Burgundy's greatest regional rival - the sprawling realms of Dauphiné. The poorly fought war against Dauphiné in the late 1410's, only saved by the inheritance of france, had not been forgotten. The construction of a fortress in Burgundy itself in 1448 and the buildup of armies in the south signalled the Burgundian plans quite clearly. A convenient excuse was found for the declaration of war. A recent proclaimation of the guarantee of Bourbonnais independance had been violated. The time for war, was now, and the principal target was the trading centre of Lyonnais. Dauphiné have, allied with them, the powerful duchy of Savoy. Savoy cause considerable delays in the finish of the war's ultimate aims. However, even so, a year into the war - in 1452 - the tide had clearly turned to Burgundian favour. Berri, the capital of Dauphiné, fell in late 1452 along with Caux and Lyonnais (early 1453). Forces freed up from these attacks then subjugated and force vassalised Savoy removing her from the war entirely. In November 1453, with revenge complete, both Lyonnais and Caux were forcibly annexed to Burgundy (Fig.4).


    Fig. 1 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Fig. 2 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Fig. 3 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Fig. 4
    Last edited by Languish; 06-02-2007 at 22:31.

  4. #4
    Disciple of Peperna CatKnight's Avatar
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    Looks like a promising start! Good luck with this!

    I see Dauphine hasn't turned into France. That's good for you! (If Dauphine takes Ile de France in a peace deal they'll form the 'modern' France we all know and love.)

    In 1476 the Austrians are going to kindly offer to take you over. The obvious answer is "No."
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  5. #5
    Fighting the Boredom

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    Part 3. Solid Foundations.

    Immediately after the war with Dauphine, their realm began to collapse inwards, and following a second disastrous war to their south they were truly in trouble. Provence secured their independence from Dauphine, and soon after, parts of northern Dauphine rebelled and joined the Burgundian Kingdom (Fig.1). By early 1462 Dauphine was no more. During this process the Burgundian Kingdom had been slowly building up a fleet. Still smarting from the failure to secure Paris it had been decided a naval invasion of the British Isles was a certainty. It was only a matter of time before the two powers would clash again. In May 1465 the Burgundians, fearing a declaration against themselves, declared war on the English drawing in all of the British Isles, Northern France, and the Lowlands.

    The war initially went well for the Burgundians with the fall of Paris and strong defenses of Friesen attacks on Zeeland. The first attempts to land an army in England suceeded but were soon wiped out. This would be the case for many years afterwards, the fleet would have no problem transporting the troops, and yet the defense of the English home provinces was overwhelmingly effective. So much so, that by 1469, all further plans to attack the English had been called off. The war in the Lowlands however was making strong progress with the fall of Holland itself in 1468 and Friesland in 1470. Friesland were force vassalised and lost Holland as part of the treaty (Fig.2).

    The army itself underwent a huge transformation in 1471 as it was decided that an elite core of mercenaries would form the backbone of the modern Burgundian army (event). This was done not a moment too soon, as the war weary burgundians, began to fall victim to a series of revolts in the south. It was discovered, almost by accident, that the English had secured the help of Brittany during this time though neither the Bretons or Burgundians had the stomach to fight each other right now. By 1473 an offer of 183d for peace by the English was accepted. A stalemate between the two great powers had been reached, with Burgundy masters of the continent and see, but with the English steadfastly defending their lands. The failure to capture the jewel of France, Paris, mean't the war was largely considered a failure despite the acquisition of Holland.

    However, things were about to change rather conveniently, as Paris - isolated from the English (enemies, no military access) - was wracked by revolution in 1474. A series of deaths and turbulent times in Burgundy was offset (fortunately) by the successful Parisien revolt. In 1479 Paris formerly became a part of the Burgundian Kingdom (Fig.3). It would, however be another three or four years, before stability and normality had been returned to Burgundy. By the late 1480's the simmering undercurrent of war was rising once more. An increasingly militaristic Burgundian kingdom declared war on Brittany in 1488 drawing in a similar alliance to the one that fought two decades before. The war itself went extremely well despite the huge Breton armies fielded against Burgundy. By November 1489 both Maine and Orleannais had falled and in 1491 Brittany was effectively over-run. In January 1492 the Treaty of Nantes secured Vendee, Maine and Orleannais for the Kingdom of Burgundy (Fig.4). War with England however, continued to rage on...


    Fig. 1 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Fig. 2 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Fig. 3 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Fig. 4

  6. #6
    Fighting the Boredom

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    Quote Originally Posted by CatKnight
    Looks like a promising start! Good luck with this!

    I see Dauphine hasn't turned into France. That's good for you! (If Dauphine takes Ile de France in a peace deal they'll form the 'modern' France we all know and love.)

    In 1476 the Austrians are going to kindly offer to take you over. The obvious answer is "No."
    Thanks for dropping by. If i hadn't inherited France i would have been truly screwed - immediately. This saved me and allowed me to starting beating opponents. Also my financial situation in game (rare for me and EU2) has permitted me to play in a manner that suits me. Even when a couple of events forced loans on me (usually by 10 or 5d!) i was able to repay them immediately. I've been very lucky as well but also i've suffered some setbacks. I was hoping to walk all over england in my first major war with them but they proved extremely tough - especially in and around London. Impressive for a change - but frustrating nonetheless.

    Luckily for me I managed to keep Dauphine at bay and chose all responses that prevented those from becoming france (including myself). They came close, and for a while, represented a real danger to my kingdom. The event with the Austrians in 1476 never seemed to show up. I was taking screenshots of event choices but failed to realised after each load my screenshot directory was being wiped which was kinda annoying. I am not sure what path i took - but it hadn't triggered yet (i'm currently at 1495). I'll fend off any attempts to inherit me though!
    Last edited by Languish; 07-02-2007 at 07:40.

  7. #7
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    Ask for the crown of Lotharingia!
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  8. #8
    Fighting the Boredom

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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick O'Harte
    Ask for the crown of Lotharingia!
    How? ... then again, don't tell me... i've not looked at the Burgundian events files on purpose.

  9. #9
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    Ah, Burgundy, everyone's favorite Bad little Boy.
    you say no world conquest, but my bet is that before you know it, you'll be saying:"just this little last province to annex and then i'll stop".

    Burgundy has potential; may you lead her to greatness!
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    You might very well think that. I couldn't possibly comment.

  10. #10
    Burgundy is a great nation and a very fun one to play. Nice to see you in this forum Languish. I really like your second goal, IMHO its the only true way to play Burgundy.

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    In 1476 you didn't receive an event that says "Charles the Bold is dead, who shall be our ruler?" etc. Hm. Maybe the latest version of AGCEEP disables it if you're the player.

    Your consolidation of 'France' seems to be going well. What's your plan? Reach the historical borders and wait?
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  12. #12
    Fighting the Boredom

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fnuco
    Ah, Burgundy, everyone's favorite Bad little Boy.
    you say no world conquest, but my bet is that before you know it, you'll be saying:"just this little last province to annex and then i'll stop".

    Burgundy has potential; may you lead her to greatness!
    Your words are strangely prophetic…

    Quote Originally Posted by Duke of Wellington
    Burgundy is a great nation and a very fun one to play. Nice to see you in this forum Languish. I really like your second goal, IMHO its the only true way to play Burgundy.
    Thanks Duke. You are right - I felt I would be cheating myself if I became france - after all I elected to play as Burgundy. So far I haven't seen anything that would make me thing it was a mistake not to have done it

    Quote Originally Posted by CatKnight
    In 1476 you didn't receive an event that says "Charles the Bold is dead, who shall be our ruler?" etc. Hm. Maybe the latest version of AGCEEP disables it if you're the player.

    Your consolidation of 'France' seems to be going well. What's your plan? Reach the historical borders and wait?
    I think I did receive an event like that - maybe I didn’t pay it a lot of attention because if any events did crop up I always avoid becoming France, etc. It could be that? Unfortunately I forgot, during the game (quitting and playing another day) that my screenshots folder got wiped. I'd be capturing any major events like that beforehand.

    Plans? Well, with regards to territory, I want to make sure I control all French and Dutch (thanks to an event choice I made) culture provinces. This obviously means conquering all of modern day france, belgium, luxembourg and holland. I've been annexing and freeing anyone else I conquer unless I've had no ability to do so (occassionally). I've not stuck completely to this little rule but so far so good.
    Last edited by Languish; 08-02-2007 at 07:56.

  13. #13
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    great another burgundian AAR,
    although colonising with Burgundy will be difficult (you will need good random events, in my game I never got an explorer so I had to rely on exchanging maps or capturing capitals for precious maps)

  14. #14
    Fighting the Boredom

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    Quote Originally Posted by Burgundy
    great another burgundian AAR,
    although colonising with Burgundy will be difficult (you will need good random events, in my game I never got an explorer so I had to rely on exchanging maps or capturing capitals for precious maps)
    Thanks… and you are right, it hasn't proved easy. I don't know if the AGCEEP has pulled back on the AI colonisation but despite capturing several regional capitals (including London) I was unable to find anything of any use. I had caught sight of Barbados in a latter update to come and managed to get a conquistador by random event. I can't recall right now when but I managed to found a colony on Barbados… but nowhere else (yet).
    Last edited by Languish; 08-02-2007 at 12:50.

  15. #15
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    Part 3. Paving the way for badboy wars...

    In 1493 a declaration of war is issued by Lorraine and Strasburg. The dynamics of the war are changed and quick peace is agreed with England for a token figure. Cleverly a war versus Austria and Bohemia is also avoided. It's during the outset of war against Lorraine that the size and relative power of our Palatinate allies is noticed (Fig.1). It is decided that, in future, Burgundy will attempt to distance itself from its aggressive neighbour.

    The war is of no real concern for Burgundy. Certainly at present they have no real ambition in the eastern lands of germany. From 1496 to 1506 a major effort is given over to fortifying the lands with great fortresses erected throughout. In 1506 the king dies, to be suceeded by Charles II, who ensures that Burgundy is ready for war. Another potential war, declared by our allies Savoy, is quickly defused and Burgundy is able to offload the isolated province of Baden to the Austrians. The real plans soon appear with Burgundy declaring war against England.

    The ultimate objectives of the war are the acquisition of Gascogne and Guyenne - the last remaining english provinces on the continent. A large invasion of southern England is undertaken - this time with a far larger fleet and army. The diligence pays off as London falls in May 1510 followed by Kent. By October both Gascogne and Guyenne had fallen as well. By November 1510 England is a beaten nation, and alone, offers the two provinces that Burgundy was seeking (Fig.2). The attention of Burgundy is then fully focused on Genoa.

    Once again allies draw Burgundy into a pointless war - however, there is an attractive target, Lorraine. A war on several fronts begins during which Genoa is force vassalised and loses Corsica in 1513. An alliance led by Siena, opens another war involving Brittany, Sweden and the livonian Order. By September 1515 Lorrain is annexed (Fig.3) permitting a large scale shift of troops from west to east. An alliance led by Milan declares war during this time further confusing things. It seems like all of Europe is up in arms against Burgundy and her rapidly dwindling allies. By December 1517 Brittany is decisively defeated and reduced to her single capital province (Fig.4). The wars in europe however are far from over...


    Fig. 1 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Fig. 2 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Fig. 3 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Fig. 4

  16. #16
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    Part 4. From Kingdom to Empire.

    The wars in the 1510's were draining the resources and willpower of Burgundy. They could fight, continously, though the people would not allow it. In December 1517 the captured island of Corsica was given to Naples to buy them out of the wars plaguing Burgundy. In an ideal world they would have liked to have retained this strategic island but alas - it was not possible. Peace is finally obtained against the powerful northern italian alliance in 1519 and In 1520 Oldenburg is finally captured, annexed and then freed as a loyal vassal. By 1520 peace was finally accorded to Western Europe after what seemed an eternity of conflict(Fig.1).

    Great efforts were made at this stage to rest and reform the army and defenses of Burgundy. The protestant and reformed religous movement take hold in 1521. Great forts were built in Gascogne, Guyenne, Picardie and Armor to better protect the lands. After a blitzkreig of gift-giving, banquets and subtle coercian Savoy was diplo-annexed in 1527 (Fig.2). This provided a direct route to Liguria and further secured the southern borders of Burgundy. It made sense to everyone involved. The invention and adoption of artillery only further strengthened the armies of Burgundy.

    In 1529 a pretender to the throne of Burgundy appeared in Milan. The tension and fear was palpable, and in order to protect itself, Burgundy declared war on the strong Northern Italian nation and its forces began marching there almost immediately. The war involved Burgundy (Bourbonnais & Oldenburg) against Milan and her allies (Venice and Naples). After being forced to the diplomatic table a decade ago Burgundy was keen to gain her revenge. In a lightning two year war, the entire North Italian continent is occupied, and then by the Treaty of Milan in August 1531... freed. Tuscany, Mantua, Parma are all annexed then immediately freed (Fig.3) and Venice is forced to hand over its treasurey in a humiliating treaty.

    In 1533, Bourbonnais is vassalised successfully, in preparation for inclusion into what it increasingly being referred to as the 'Burgundian Empire'. in 1534 a fine arts academy is commissioned in Brussels along with a refinery in Bourgogne (1536) and a refinery in Guyenne (1543). A warning is sent to Austria to cease her own warmongering in 1536 and coincides with a increase in fortifications and the technology to build them (level 3 forts possible). Brussels and Paris are recipients of the newer defensive fortifications. In May 1545 Bourbonnais is annexed, peacefully, to the Burgundian Empire (Fig.4). Europe meanwhile was becoming restless with the Empire.


    Fig. 1 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Fig. 2 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Fig. 3 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Fig. 4

  17. #17
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    Part 5. The first bloody nose...

    Brittant, like Bourbonnais before her, had been the subject of intense 'wooing' and was also diplo-annexed in December 1545 (Fig.1). The remnants of Dauphiné are also subjugated and forced to hand over Provence in December 1546. These latest actions are seen as highly dangerous to Europe and (former friend) Palatinate and her allies (Meissen, Cologne and Scotland) declare war the following year. In March 1548 this is broadened into a anti-burgundian war as both Austria and Denmark, as leaders of their alliances, respectively declare war the following year later.

    This is further complicated by declarations of war from Hesse, Berg and Foix (all seperate declarations) in 1551. During these engagements Cleves, Berg and Cologne are all annexed then subsequently freed as dependant vassal states. In January 1552 the war in Northern Europe is closed as Friesen, the last dutch (culture) province is taken from the Danish (Fig.2). The armies in the lowlands are duly sent southwards. Peace is obtained, either in a white peace form, or via payments in the years before and after with the other nations. This shaky peace however is shattered with Dauphiné, isolated and vulnerable, declaring war on Burgundy. Austrai, Palatinate and Venice all declare war in 1553, 54 and 55 respectively - they draw in another huge anti-burgundian alliance.

    During these severe battles Dauphiné is duly annexed in April 1555 (Fig.3). Austria is convinced, with this show of force, to sign a white peace though it is Burgundy who is the more desperate. By 1556 most of the other wars have been fought out and stalemated into peace though the finally war is proving virtually impossible. The venice alliance was arguably the toughest yet faced by Burgundy and compromises both England, Spain and the Papacy. Venice manages to obtain her revenge by forcing Burgundy to lose Guyenne to the rampaging spanish armies. It is a humiliating blow and shows for the first time that Burgundy is not invincible as most had thought (Fig.4). Secretly the leaders of Burgundy admit it could have been far worse if they had not accepted this loss. A new rule, Phillipe IV, would be faced by new problems arising in the lowlands. The question would be whether he could deal with this and the mass of anti-burgundian sentiment all around him...


    Fig. 1 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Fig. 2 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Fig. 3 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Fig. 4

  18. #18
    First Lieutenant Burgundy's Avatar
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    a lot of wars for you to fight and a powerful alliance opposing you (Spain, Venice and England)

  19. #19
    Disciple of Peperna CatKnight's Avatar
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    I assume we will be avenging ourselves on Spain at some point soon.
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  20. #20
    Fighting the Boredom

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    Quote Originally Posted by Burgundy
    a lot of wars for you to fight and a powerful alliance opposing you (Spain, Venice and England)
    Unfortunately, before I knew it is was stuck in a never-ending cycle of BB wars, and it took me a long time to extricate myself from them. England, since now, has not been sending anything to me. My most dangerous foe at the moment in Spain with Austria not for behind. If I was able to take them on in a one-to-one situation I know I could claw back my lost land(s) from them. However, often I am faced with several alliances all at the same time, so lately I have been forced to arrange quick white peace treaties with those guys. In due time I will have my revenge on them both…

    Quote Originally Posted by CatKnight
    I assume we will be avenging ourselves on Spain at some point soon.
    Unfortunately not Spain are proving to be an extremely difficult opponent to fight against for the reasons highlighted above. Often, despite being ready for them, and in a later case being fully prepared to attack them with very sizable armies I just cannot beat them. In later updates I unfortunately lose a second province to them… though, after carefully avoiding conflict for a few decades, I think I will be ready to strike back. It's nice to see the AI recognised my aggressive gameplay and contain it (very effectively I might add). I've been forced to rethink my approach to the game. Updates to come later on this week.

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