Sforza!!! - A Milan AAR

[Steckie]

No, no, no: backstabbing Austria is the way to go.
There are no interesting provinces of Burgundy for the taking, perhaps a few in northern Germany but that's about it.
Austria on the other hand has been a powerfull thorn on your weakest side for almost 100 years now.
They have 3 (i think) very juicy gold provinces sitting right there in plain sight.
And since the Ottomans and Mamluks are now at each others throat, there is no real danger in the Ottomans knocking on your back door.

[WhisperingDeath]

"Curiouser and curiouser...."

Putting aside the well reasoned thoughts expressed by Steckie (above), I think you have to gain back your freedom to declare war upon whom you wish and when. Toward that end the PU must be extinguished! Side with your old ally Austria. There will be plenty of opportunities to "correct" the southern and central German borders in the future (and at a time of your choosing ).

[germanpeon]

I say go after Burgundy. Who likes em anyway? I dont think that you should take into account the fact that you might be able to kill their king though. You shouldnt be DoWing anyone with your BB anyway, unless it has decreased significantly since last time.

I say Burgundy for several reasons. One, you could take a few northern German provinces to strengthen your base of operations there and connect Bremen with the other provs. Second, I think you could more easily control the war due to the fact that the Burgundian capital is right on your border foir easy taking. It looks like Burgundy has a fairly small army compared to Austria too.

Whoever you decide to go for, it doesnt look like you can get a complete land connection to your German provinces. Heres another option: dishonor BOTH alliances. Or, be sneaky and honor both, which would also be breaking them at the same time as well. It probably wouldnt be too hard to take both of them on if theyre both tackling eachother and you arent right in the line of fire.

PS. Did you finally get EU3 v1.3? It looks like it since your border disputes arent grabbing four cores at a time anymore.

[Olaus Petrus]

If I were you I would allow them to fight against each other and just watch without participating.

[Lordban]

If France is allied with Burgundy, this is the chance to sew your empire together in one fell swoop.

If not, I'd tend to say Burgundy first, to link up your northern territories. And then Austria at the first occasion, to link them up with the rest.

[VILenin]

Hmm, both Burgundy and Austria are unpleasant long-term rivals, threatenning as they do your position in Germany, and thus one could make a good argument for war against either. However, considering that your stability is still -3, your treasury stands at 8 and you have a rather lengthy land border with Austria, I vote for siding with them against Burgundy. Really, though, this is a vote for fighting whoever's weaker; if you think that's actually Austria then by all means...

[Lord E]

Now that sure was a strange turn of events. I think you are going to side with Burgundy as that would be the things you “should” do because of the game, but then again I think you would be better of siding with Austria. It sure would be cool to see your monarch fight against himself when he fights for both countries… now that would just be silly and clearly a bug I guess. Looking forward to see what you are going to do.

[kfijatass]

Get either and vassalize either. I'd compare their incomes

[Ahura Mazda]

I agree with germanpeon

[PrawnStar]

Interesting - and I think you've got something weird going on, perhaps update related? You shouldn't have a new king and still be in a PU.

I would suggest dishonouring both alliances - you're at -3 so no worries about a stab hit. Milan looks to need peace, if those two sides are reasonably balanced then let them fight each other into the ground.

[Rensslaer]

First, let me say I wish I could follow ALL of your recommendations!

Milan invades Austria, Burgundy AND France, takes territory from each of them, with no effect to Badboy and while improving her economy... But I guess that's not allowed, is it? (course, neither is some of this other stuff!)

It's a difficult choice. Sticking with Austria gets my vote.

anti-Burgundy 1, anti-Austria 0

Yeah, I'd say Austria too. Maybe you can kill the Burgundian King to get out from under him.

anti-Burgundy 2, anti-Austria 0

No, no, no: backstabbing Austria is the way to go.
There are no interesting provinces of Burgundy for the taking, perhaps a few in northern Germany but that's about it.
Austria on the other hand has been a powerfull thorn on your weakest side for almost 100 years now.
They have 3 (i think) very juicy gold provinces sitting right there in plain sight.
And since the Ottomans and Mamluks are now at each others throat, there is no real danger in the Ottomans knocking on your back door.

anti-Burgundy 2, anti-Austria 1

Yeah, you're right -- I should be going after the gold-producing provinces. But will this be enough to overcome my other priorities??? There's a careful balance I've been wanting to maintain for some decades now, with regard to keeping Austria strong enough to hold off the Ottomans (who, for whatever reason, have gone into dormancy in the Balkans). It's becoming far less important to me now, however -- the balance is beginning to shift.

"Curiouser and curiouser...."

Putting aside the well reasoned thoughts expressed by Steckie (above), I think you have to gain back your freedom to declare war upon whom you wish and when. Toward that end the PU must be extinguished! Side with your old ally Austria. There will be plenty of opportunities to "correct" the southern and central German borders in the future (and at a time of your choosing ).

anti-Burgundy 3, anti-Austria 1

I say go after Burgundy. Who likes em anyway? I dont think that you should take into account the fact that you might be able to kill their king though. You shouldnt be DoWing anyone with your BB anyway, unless it has decreased significantly since last time.

I say Burgundy for several reasons. One, you could take a few northern German provinces to strengthen your base of operations there and connect Bremen with the other provs. Second, I think you could more easily control the war due to the fact that the Burgundian capital is right on your border foir easy taking. It looks like Burgundy has a fairly small army compared to Austria too.

Whoever you decide to go for, it doesnt look like you can get a complete land connection to your German provinces. Heres another option: dishonor BOTH alliances. Or, be sneaky and honor both, which would also be breaking them at the same time as well. It probably wouldnt be too hard to take both of them on if theyre both tackling eachother and you arent right in the line of fire.

PS. Did you finally get EU3 v1.3? It looks like it since your border disputes arent grabbing four cores at a time anymore.

That's three sets of votes, both of which I'll count (Burgundy, neither, both): anti-Burgundy 5, anti-Austria 2, neither 1 -- Naturally, these choices are all quirky, because I really shouldn't have a choice in an un-bugged game!

An excellent analysis, by the way!

If I were you I would allow them to fight against each other and just watch without participating.

anti-Burgundy 5, anti-Austria 2, neither 2

If France is allied with Burgundy, this is the chance to sew your empire together in one fell swoop.

If not, I'd tend to say Burgundy first, to link up your northern territories. And then Austria at the first occasion, to link them up with the rest.

anti-Burgundy 6, anti-Austria 2, neither 2, France too 1

Hmm, both Burgundy and Austria are unpleasant long-term rivals, threatenning as they do your position in Germany, and thus one could make a good argument for war against either. However, considering that your stability is still -3, your treasury stands at 8 and you have a rather lengthy land border with Austria, I vote for siding with them against Burgundy. Really, though, this is a vote for fighting whoever's weaker; if you think that's actually Austria then by all means...

anti-Burgundy 7, anti-Austria 2, neither 2, France too 1

Another very good analysis!

Now that sure was a strange turn of events. I think you are going to side with Burgundy as that would be the things you “should” do because of the game, but then again I think you would be better of siding with Austria. It sure would be cool to see your monarch fight against himself when he fights for both countries… now that would just be silly and clearly a bug I guess. Looking forward to see what you are going to do.

anti-Burgundy 7, anti-Austria 3, neither 2, France too 1

Actually, my king was briefly Philippe VI, but now (within a month of the PU) is a Milanese again... Yet, the PU still stands... Very confusing. Maybe the explanation is that Philippe had a split personality, and he really is meaning to fight himself!

Get either and vassalize either. I'd compare their incomes

I think that would have to be a vote for war with Austria, as they have a pretty respectable income, even compared to Milan! Vassalizing either power, however, is a totally economy-dooming prospect, as that would allow my recent bankruptcy to be followed by a 3-year war (while other countries probably join in at some point, because of this silly schedule some of them seem to have! -- "Hey, King... It's May of the year five-and-a-half years after our last war. Isn't it about time we declare war on Milan again?")

anti-Burgundy 7, anti-Austria 4, neither 2, France too 1

I agree with germanpeon

anti-Burgundy 8, anti-Austria 4, neither 2, France too 1

Interesting - and I think you've got something weird going on, perhaps update related? You shouldn't have a new king and still be in a PU.

I would suggest dishonouring both alliances - you're at -3 so no worries about a stab hit. Milan looks to need peace, if those two sides are reasonably balanced then let them fight each other into the ground.

Balance? Hmm... I think Burgundy is somewhat outmatched, but they could sure do some damage to each other, with probably the outcome deeming one province or so to be transferred to Austria, which will be neither here nor there to the continental balance of power. Truly, peace would be the best option for Milan from a conservative perspective, except there's that pesky problem of the PU. Will I have the patience to endure? Will it be worth it to me to basically have a great power as a siamese twin to whatever happens to me? Hmm....

anti-Burgundy 8, anti-Austria 4, neither 3, France too 1

A close race! For 2nd place, anyway!

I will say that one (and only one) of you recommends almost exactly my long-term (peaceful! ) strategy. I'm hoping to have an update soon.

Rensslaer

[Rensslaer]

What a choice! Well, the game has basically departed from reality, so I’m not going to feel too badly constrained by other considerations of reality.

My situation – the Personal Union – should result in my going to war with Austria. And there are certainly plenty of reasons to go to war with Austria. I certainly mean to, at some point, and that point is drawing closer, and closer.



But I am equally drawn toward war with Burgundy. If I’m intending to connect my northern German provinces with Bremen (and I do), then I want Luneburg. It would also add to the defensibility of these territories if I had Mecklenburg (the province, not the country, which for whatever reason don’t coincide) as a second northern port. And Dresden brings me one province closer to connecting my northern German provinces with my home territory (meaning that I’d only have to add one Austrian-held province in order to accomplish this).

Basically, three of my most coveted provinces in the world are in Burgundian hands.

Plus, it only makes sense that if I ever wish to end the Personal Union, I might have to fight for it (I think the game provides for this contingency, although that doesn’t seem to be working right now). It makes story-sense that this is how I would arrive at my freedom from Burgundy, and it also makes game-sense that if I’m experiencing a bug, that there’s a possibility it might resolve itself and go away if I successfully won a war against my captor. So…



I thrust four bankruptcy-bummed regiments, under Gen. Ottaviano Containi (part of the clan which the Milanese have always raised to become generals, such that I have 7 generations of the guys!), into Mecklenburg. The paltry defenders actually are having trouble standing against even our demoralized troops (I think this regiment probably had been in combat with Mecklenburgian forces, with whom the Burgundians are also at war, and they must have retreated to catch their breath while another regiment battles to their northwest).

My other armies are already on the move toward other Burgundian-held provinces.

As can be seen in the next screenpic, Burgundy realized a triple-war was a losing prospect, so they made peace on their northern frontier, freeing up troops to attack me.



Our combat in Luneburg was interesting – we were getting the better of a larger force in terms of casualties, but our morale (because of the bankruptcy?) was falling faster. This will be a nail-biter. The Mecklenburg combat was as surprisingly one-sided.



As it turns out, we lost the combat… But with a tally of 1,500 casualties on their side. Only 114 on ours! I don’t know why they’re demoralized. They’re going home alive!



We’re also picking on the isolated provinces of Baden and Elsass – a region that is exposed because of handy battles between the Burgundians and Austrians. Competent leadership (and good die rolls!) helps us to gain the upper hand against another force which is barely smaller than our own. We’re confounding the odds on this bankruptcy morale-hit!

The Burgundians made a half-hearted attempt at an offensive against Altmark, defended by a resting Gen. Sopransi, who was hardly in any shape to fight, regardless of his numerical superiority.



The battle was lost by Sopransi’s formation just before another, from the north, crashed into the Burgundians. It began a monthlong fight with not much going on.



King Philippe, of Burgundy, forced us out of Osnabruck with overwhelming force. But, having done so, he left Luneburg open, where we had lost a battle earlier against his defense. Now, we chose to reoccupy that space (we’re the army behind the Castilian), and dare King Philippe to come after us. His armies were more or less clear to our back, so once Altmark was secure, we would bring more armies against him.

That single regiment of Castilian troops in Luneburg, by the way, is just hanging out – they’ve been forced out by the Mecklenburgians, who they’re at war with (when Mecklenburg made a white peace, the Burgundian ally Castille remained at war, as the alliance leader). That’s a 3-1 odds situation there. The Castilians might ask for our hospitality once we capture Luneburg, so they don’t have to go back into combat.

Eventually, we won the combat in Altmark. Now, it’s time to pay attention westward…

[WhisperingDeath]

I always feel that all is right with the world when Milan is at war!

Is the stab prob also having an effect on your morale? Time to consider quantity (as you may be lacking quality due to morale issues).

[Evangelion]

Since Austria is the stronger of the two, I would have ganged up against them. The end-result of this war might be that while you emerge victorious, Austria as well will be stronger than ever, and that might cause problem in the future. Also, by taking their gold-producing provinces, you would have made them a land-locked country, rendering their navy (I assume they have one) useless. I did that in my game as Denmark. I went to war with Austria, and as part of the deal I made them cede their coastal gold-province in south (name which escapes me at the moment) to Burgundy (my ally), while I took their northern coastal-provinces. End-result is that their humungous navy (which caused me serious problem during the war) is just sitting in the med with no place to go for rest & refit .

But, your reasons for your choice were valid. I'll be following this war with interest .

[Chief Ragusa]

Naturally you want to connect up Bremen with your other northern provinces in preparation for the annexation of Bavaria. There's also the chance to eliminate southern Burgundy. That clears the decks, so to speak, for the attack upon Austria. Your great advantage is that you are the alliance leader and can ensure Austria gains nothing.

You are bound to have another war with the Castillians and their erstwhile allies.You need the Austrian navy to keep those English in check.

[Olaus Petrus]

Hopefully you manage to end this war quickly, before someone else bandwagons against you.

[Lordban]

Castille allied with Burgundy... Mmhh, there may be other wars in the making there...

Milan's forces still are much more brittle than I thought they would now be. A fighting recovery it must be?

[coz1]

Touch and go, but you made the right choice. I am sure of it.

[VILenin]

As it turns out, we lost the combat… But with a tally of 1,500 casualties on their side. Only 114 on ours! I don’t know why they’re demoralized. They’re going home alive!

True, but apparently your greedy soldiers are more concerned about getting paid then getting home. Oh you silly peasants.

I think you made the right choice going to war against Burgundy; nevertheless, things could still turn bad if Austria comes out of the war signficantly stronger than you. Unavoidable, though, unless you happen to be the alliance leader in which case you could saddle them with an empty peace deal.

[Lord E]

You have made the real choice. Burgundy was the most natural enemy because of the PU and their lands. Now you should grab those provinces so that you can united your German lands, but also try to do it quickly before more countries declare war upon you. With all the wars you have fought I fear the BB wars will begin sooner or later, and the longer you stay at war the greater the risk of the wars beginning…