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The map looks WAY better, like everyone is saying. I just think the objects in it still need work (sprites, towns, shields, flags, boats, etc), and they are standing out even more (in a bad way) as the map gets better.

Also, small nitpick, the river mouth looks terrible, it doesn´t really connect with the sea...
 
Naming of provinces

Johan said:
The map team has while working on proper names on the map, also been busy improving the look of mountains as well added support for winter being depicted on the map.

If i may be so bold as to make a few suggestions, given the following picture shown in an earlier development diary

eu3_aug_23.jpg


We find the following named provinces:
Holland
Zeeland
Utrecht
Friesland
Gelre
Breda
Brabant
Vlaanderen
Hainaut

I'd suggest changing the name "Breda" to "Noord Brabant" (Or english: Northern Brabant) since it would approach reality better.

Background
Originally both Brabant and "Breda" were both the same province: "Brabant"
During the 80 year war the province got divided.
Given this divided status, it lost its place in the assembly as a separate province and became part of the "generaliteitslanden" or directly gouverned by the General Estates.
The region was indicated by many names but "brabant" and "Noord Brabant" were commonly used.

Other remarks:
I have always been unhappy with the depiction of "gelre" in many (most?) Paradox games, since it combines the current provinces "Gelderland" and "overijsel" or to use older names "Gelre" and "Oversticht"
Overijsel was under jurisdiction of the bishopric Utrecht, hence the name:
Utrecht -> Sticht
Overijssel -> Oversticht.
Oversticht also included most of Drente.

Secondly Gelre should strecht out below utrecht. There should be no border between utrecht and Noord Brabant (.... Breda.... ugh)

see also the following map
Afbeelding:Netherlands_map_large.png

hmm. this is a png....
Link: http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afbeelding:Netherlands_map_large.png


Gelre -> Gelderland
Utrecht/Sticht -> Utrecht
Oversticht -> Overijssel + Drente

But i am afraid that this cannot be helped now, since the provinceborders are probably fixed now.

The depiction of Friesland combining both Friesland and Groningen is not bad, since another (old) name for Groningen was "Friesland between Eems and Lauwers"
 
Europa%20Universalis%203%201280x960%204.jpg


Similarly, going by this screenshot:

Cornwall = West Country
Lincoln = Lincolnshire
Cumbria = Cumberland

Cumberland is one of the 39 historic counties of England. Cumbria did not exist 'till 1974 :)

I love the inclusion of the Welsh Marches, by the way. I think the prefix "Welsh" should be included, as opposed to simply Marches, though.

Hope that saved you a spot of work, and it's all looking great! :D
 
_Curieus_ said:
since another (old) name for Groningen was "Friesland between Eems and Lauwers"
It was? When? The only alternative name i know is Stad en Ommeland (city and environs), or Stad en Lande, the shorter version.
 
This is bugging me! On the screenshot on Johan's original post, what's the flag in the province of Nevers? I can't make out what it could be. The province itself seems to be a capital (notice the golden crown) - but I can't find an image for the duchy of Nevers, and I don't know if it was independant in the 1460s anyway...

:rolleyes:
 
mandead said:
This is bugging me! On the screenshot on Johan's original post, what's the flag in the province of Nevers? I can't make out what it could be. The province itself seems to be a capital (notice the golden crown) - but I can't find an image for the duchy of Nevers, and I don't know if it was independant in the 1460s anyway...

:rolleyes:
Nevers
 
mandead said:
Cornwall = West Country

I prefer it left as Cornwall. Besides won't Cornwall have a seperate dominant culture tag from the rest of England?
 
Garuda said:
I prefer it left as Cornwall. Besides won't Cornwall have a seperate dominant culture tag from the rest of England?

I suggested West Country purely because it's a massive area, as opposed to a smaller province to fit (more or less) the borders of Cornwall itself. It's like Marches, it's a generic name, because it's much too big a province to represent Shropshire on its own, etc.

I love the fact London has its own province, though :D

EDIT: Aye, hopefully cornish will be a subculture of brythonic.
 
I was pretty sure that it was to torment the betas, who can't resolve speculative questions that go on long and winding tangents without someone giving them a straight answer.
 
Borders.

Looking good,I see the map has improved. I have no idea what the international convention is for borders but I am reasonable sure that ugliness is not one of them.
 
I don't really see the problem with the borders. The style of the national borders doesn't bug ne at all.

What does bug me is the shape of the provinces. I much prefered EU2's curved provinces to the harsh and angular ones shown in EUIII's screenshots. They don't seem real or natural to me, and makes the game look more...gamey.
 
A tiny graphics nitpick: They should fade the end of the river when flow out into the sea, now you can see the edge.
 
Galleblære said:
A tiny graphics nitpick: They should fade the end of the river when flow out into the sea, now you can see the edge.
It would be even more cool if they could have a little delta at the end of the river. :cool:
 
Reveilled said:
I don't really see the problem with the borders. The style of the national borders doesn't bug ne at all.

What does bug me is the shape of the provinces. I much prefered EU2's curved provinces to the harsh and angular ones shown in EUIII's screenshots. They don't seem real or natural to me, and makes the game look more...gamey.

That's because province borders are designated by coordinates (or linked vectors) that will be moddable. In the early screenshots these points were only linked by hard lines, creating the "legoland" effect but the paradox team seems to have made a big efford to curb the borders that are still delimited, according to the engine, by straight lines. Actually, the borders look much better now and are almost good enough for release, in my opinion.

You have to understand that it's much more difficult to make borders look fluid and be fluid at the same time. In comparison, in EU2 the map was like a big gif that you coudn't customise much. Eu3's map will be much better since to change the province borders you only have to change the coordinates in what I guess will be the province file.
 
Fifty years for province assimilation seems fine to me. During the time period in question that represents approximately three generations, and 99.9% of the population who could reasonably expect to remember a different political situation would already be in the grave.

We also have to take into account that the idea of 'nationalism' has yet to be born, and the burning questions of armchair historians of our own era weren't of any concern whatsoever to the average Joe (or Jules or Johan) of this time frame. These folks, who made up the VAST majority of the population, didn't give a rat's ass what language their overlord spoke or what his customs were or what he preferred for his dinnertime dish; what the slobs cared about was how much they were going to be taxed, what portion of the harvest would be appropriated by the new overlord, and whether the overlords henchmen had a penchant for raping the daughters of local farmers, or beating said farmers for entertainment purposes when bored. If the tax rate of the new lord was better than the old and his men-at-arms kept their hands off the locals, then their loyalty would suddenly turn into a transferable commodity. To hell with the old lord; the new one's a damn sight better, and that's the only thing that matters to the peasant or townsman living hand-to-mouth.

History tends to be written from the point of view of the elite, filtered through the concerns of a tiny minority whose own priorities had zip to do with anything anyone lower on the social scale cared about. We say that the 'people' of such and such a province or place had these concerns, but what that really means is that the tiny uppercrust of that place had those concerns; the rest of the population didn't give a good goddamn, but they didn't have the power to tell the local nobility to go stuff themselves when they started yammering on about bloodrights, or 'rightful claims', or 'culture', or any of that crap. Only the rich cared about that sort of thing - rich like the nobles of this era, or rich like us, today, who can afford to waste our time on computers, and computer games.

Fifty years is plenty of time. More than enough, really. Especially if the new masters are better than the old.

Max