• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Nebukadnezar said:
I didn't suggest building FAAs for investment but for increasing province growth. Maybe it's too late now (I posted this suggestion earlier and with a general purpose on mind) but after getting the provinces from the Incas you had a lot of provinces<5000. Send colonists until 5000 is reached starting with the provinces having the lowest population. Then build FAA just to increase province growth. Maybe even let the Incas keep Cuzco to keep the Cot around a bit longer.
This should bring all of these provinces to 20K before you've finished WC and it would double your MP from provinces with your culture and more than double for provinces with wrong culture.


Did you test it with centralization<max?
You don't get additional MP when you're at max centra. Set your centra to 0 just for testing.

(I'm not suggesting that these are the best things to do. They were just some ideas to improve one aspect)
Oh yeah sure, I understand. It is just that I would not build FAAs just for the province growth. I may need FAAs anyway as it turns out. Yes, helping to keep the CoT around a bit longer would be nice. I should have let Inca revolt in Titicaca sooner. Then I could just let them stay there because I would get more income considering they would have five merchants in the CoT. And they would get some manpower events.

I didn't test with Centralization<max. I didn't know about it.

Isaac Brock said:
Rebels would be higher tech than you as the game goes on. So not only 12 times more rebels, but rebel armies that outech their opponents. Being down a CRT on rebels used to be very painful.
No way. I would not be behind in tech to rebels. I will far out-tech Europeans if all goes well. Chimu has gold. Chimu is the richest nation in the world. Chimu can afford to pay five or six times the tech costs that Europeans pay. Well perhaps not if I need to build a lot of FAAs.
 
Chimú Treachery: Golden World Superpower

Part Three

[anchorlink=round_two]Round Two of the Badboy Wars[/anchorlink]
[anchorlink=First_Civil_War]First Civil War[/anchorlink]
[anchorlink=round_three]Round Three of the Badboy Wars[/anchorlink]
[anchorlink=Second_Civil_War]Second Civil War[/anchorlink]
[anchorlink=round_four]Round Four of the Badboy Wars[/anchorlink]
[anchorlink=Third_Civil_War]Third Civil War[/anchorlink]


[anchor=round_two]Round Two of the Badboy Wars[/anchor]

Chimu spots a settler of France going to America. Preparations for war are made. France builds a trade post in Chesapeake bordering Chimu's province of Delaware. On April 12, 1561, France DoWs. In the next couple of months, all France's European provinces except two are besieged. The main French army of 16.5K, led by Montmorency (3/3/3), stands in Lorraine. The French are allowed to attack the siege on Ile de France from Nivernais across the Seine River. All of European France is soon besieged. Galleys are slow delivering men to the French colonies in North America. France builds up a small defense force where there is an unfortified CoT in Micmac. Nova Scotia is captured. No attempt is made to capture Micmac; there are not enough men for a chance at a successful amphibious assault.

Preparations are made for the next war. On September 1, 1561, Aragon DoWs. There are some minor battles; then most of Aragon's continental holdings are besieged. Unhappiness among the peasantry reduces stability to -3. Rebellions are minor.

It takes only a couple of years to bring Aragon and France to their knees. On May 1, 1563, France gives up 48% worth of cores and American trade posts. Aragon gives up 68% war score of provinces and trade posts. Due to the trade posts gained, a land connection from Chimu's capital to the most numerous North American cities is nearly complete. Colonies are built in Nicaragua and Biloxi. All that are needed for the land connection are Spain's colonies in Isthmus and Honduras.

Aragon has given Chimu the province of Bretagne bordering Brittany. On May 20, 1563, Brittany DoWs. Brittany has a 24K stack of troops that is annihilated on the plains. On February 10, 1564, Spain DoWs. Spain has only 14K men in Iberia and 16K men in the French area. Only a year and a half is required to gain 99% war score against Spain. On October 1, 1565, Spain agrees to a 58% peace offer giving cores and colonies to Chimu. Chimu establishes a land connection to much of North America. Brittany gives a province for peace.

Spain has given Chimu the province of Gibraltar bordering Morocco's province of Tangiers. Creating a border to another country was unintentional. The strait across the Straits of Gibraltar is a forgotten feature of the new version of EU2. On October 7, 1565, Morocco DoWs. Morocco is nearly defenseless, having only a 5K stack of infantry in Toubkal. On May 30, 1567, Morocco gives all its city provinces for peace. Morocco is allowed to keep trade posts bordering Denmark and Songhai. The trade post bordering Songhai may be desirable when Morocco is annexed. War in West Africa should be simple when Chimu reaches land tech nine, not too far off.

Algiers is now on Chimu's border. Algiers is allied with Ottoman Empire. Algiers and Ottoman Empire are in an unusual case of a stuck war with Serbia. Ottoman Empire has captured Serbia's only province, yet Ottoman Empire does not make peace with Serbia. Algiers does not ever DoW Chimu as a result. In the break between wars, Chimu plans to build infantry for war in West Africa. There is however an unexpected twist in the story from here.


[anchor=First_Civil_War]First Civil War[/anchor]

On January 1, 1568, civil war strikes Chimu. In total, only 14K infantry and 30K cavalry remain. In Europe, Chimu loses all but 20K cavalry. Chimu immediately commissions 32K cavalry, mostly in core provinces for shipment to Europe. Civil war has caused 17 unfortified provinces and 10 fortified provinces to fall into rebel control. Single man armies quickly restore order to the 17 unfortified provinces. Cavalry are sent to Europe on 24 warships; and 6K cavalry have been commissioned in the two pagan provinces of Europe.


[anchor=round_three]Round Three of the Badboy Wars[/anchor]

On June 7, 1568, France declares war. France's small size and non-existent military is all that prevents them from being menacing. Chimu's 26K European cavalry are enough to lay siege to France. New cavalry from the Americas arrives to lay siege to rebel controlled lands. To recover some from war exhaustion, Chimu accepts peace proposal on March 21, 1570. France gives more than 49% of spoils because France offers Chimu their CoT in America. Chimu now borders England in North America; England is in a long war against Serbia. Order is largely restored in Europe by the time Brittany DoWs.

On December 19, 1570, Spain DoWs. Spain's infantry in Iberia is about equal in numbers to Chimu's 66K cavalry. Spain's other 30K infantry amount to some opposition in the French plains. Most of the Spanish, led by Alessandro Farnese (3/4/6/1), besiege Toledo and suffer a great deal of attrition as a result. Except for Spain's capital and lowland provinces, all else that is Spanish is either besieged or captured. Spain is unable to build troops in the lowlands due to 18% revolt risk. Spain's 30 artillery and leader bonus complete a quick siege in Toledo and move on to Aragon. A few Chimu provinces are assaulted and captured in the French plains before Chimu gets a fire phase.

Chimu acquires land tech nine on July 1, 1571. In Andalusia, Chimu builds 30 artillery at a time to an eventual total of 170. Brittany is annexed. In December of 1571, the last remnants of Chimu's civil war are finally removed. Spain captures Toledo and then besieges Valencia. Most of Spain's provinces are captured. Chimu's cavalry are gathered in Aragon. In two quick battles, Spain's final fighters are annihilated in Valencia. Plague reduces manpower in Cuzco by 0.5 manpower.

On August 13, 1572, Morocco DoWs and besieges the small fortress in Sahara. Attrition cuts them to less than 10K. Morocco's capital is besieged using 40 artillery. Spain submits to a 58% peace offer. On December 18, 1573, Morocco and 10K men are annexed into Chimu's empire.

Peace is restored. Chimu's European army is rebuilt to 114K in size including the 170 artillery. A military expansion is underway throughout Chimu's provinces. The manpower pool is spent on building infantry for war in West Africa. Many galleys are built in Europe for the invasion.


[anchor=Second_Civil_War]Second Civil War[/anchor]

On July 1, 1575, a second civil war ravages Chimu. About three-fourths of Chimu's 85K cavalry defect. Most of Chimu's artillery defect also; Chimu retains 70 artillery. Chimu is unable to build reinforcements in Europe due to a rebel army of 20K infantry and cavalry in Andalusia. Rebels hold Toledo; rebels also hold thirteen other fortified provinces. The manpower pool is nearly all spent. There is little cavalry and artillery for the wars to come. Instead, infantry built in Chimu's military expansion come from warships crossing the Atlantic. To make things worse, unhappiness among the peasantry causes more rebels to sprout in Chimu's provinces.


[anchor=round_four]Round Four of the Badboy Wars[/anchor]

Portugal and Aragon are at war with a sizeable Scotland that has revolted from Portugal. Aragon also has a revolter, Huguenots in the one province of Maine. Aragon makes peace with Scotland and then Huguenots. On August 20, 1576, Huguenots DoWs Chimu. The one province is quickly covered. Aragon DoWs August 21, 1576. There is a bit of a scramble; but things are fairly well under control. Aragon's advancing 16K and 17K stacks are fortunately annihilated by the largest grouping of Chimu's 14K cavalry in the plains of Catalonia. About 2500 infantry are attached to Chimu's cavalry for firepower support. After those two battles are out of the way, Chimu has pretty much a free hand in Aragon's lands. From Aragon's provinces, 20K stacks of rebels march around in France. Catalonia is captured from Aragon.

On November 6, 1576, Portugal DoWs. Portugal has recently made peace with Scotland. The situation soon becomes frantic. Portugal besieges Estramadura and captures many Chimu colonies. Chimu's relations with Spain go from -200 to +193 with just two state gifts. Spain invites Chimu into an alliance with England and an easily winable war with another new revolter nation, Netherlands. Chimu enters Spain's alliance to prevent DoWs from Spain and England. A serious heretics event produces large rebel stacks. Chimu besieges Portugal's capital and Algarve. Portugal refuses to accept Oporto for peace.

Portugal's men advance through Aragon's provinces in French lands. Chimu's men pose enough of a threat in the right places to corral Portugal's men to attack rebel armies on their way to help defend their capital. Rebellions in Cantabria are eliminated. Chimu's men are stretched thin trying to accomplish everything desired in Europe. Portugal marches on the siege in Tago from Estramadura across the Tajo River. All of Chimu's cavalry are assembled in Tago. Without a day of battle elapsing, Portugal retreats from two attacks. Chimu loses four warships to a storm while crossing the Atlantic. Military access through The Azores would have been useful. Tago and Algarve are captured. Chimu has only a 17% war score advantage. When Portugal offers Algarve for peace, Chimu accepts.

Attention is then given to sieges of the last civil war and sieges in Aragon. Before sieges can complete, Huguenots once again declares independence from Aragon, this time springing from Aragon's province of Guyenne. Huguenots takes two of Chimu's province as well. On October 1, 1578, Aragon offers Roussillon and Artois for peace. Chimu accepts. Except for the civil war still affecting Chimu, peace is restored.


[anchor=Third_Civil_War]Third Civil War[/anchor]

Nobels ally with foreign power and stability drops to -2. A new conquistador discovers Catawba in North America. Before the second civil war is cleaned up, on June 1, 1579, Chimu is again rocked by civil war. Chimu loses the conquistador 10K infantry and 7K cavalry to defection. Twelve new fortified provinces are in rebel hands.

Ouch! Chimu has a civil war bloody nose. Apparently the strategy of dealing with civil wars if and when they should happen will not work in v1.09. If not for the civil wars, Chimu would have a fairly easy and slow going WC game. West Africa, Iberia, France, and part of England would now be Chimu's plus Chimu could have had an army between 200K and 300K strong instead of an army of just under 100K.
 
Ack! Three civil wars!
 
Duke of Wellington said:
Ouch that had to really hurt. Does it ever leave you feeling like quitting or reloading?
It is heart-breaking really. After all they finally significantly changed my favorite game. Or was I just really unlucky? Does anyone have experience with v1.09 badboy wars? I think that now a policy of maintaining +1 stability while at peace is really the way to go. I need lots of FAAs.

Hey this game can still be rescued. The last civil war was not so bad. After all, on an average game of Chimu, the Chimu would just now be exchanging maps with Spain. However, a fourth civil war before the next round of badboy wars would be the end I'm afraid. If I can rebuild a significant army and make it to the shelter of another war (sounds backwards), then I can stay at long lasting war until I build lots of FAAs. How does that sound? Of course having -2 stability is not really puting odds on my side. Maybe I should just cut and DoW someone right now? I could invest for +1 stability in the next break before of badboy wars. How much worse off am I with -2 stability compared to 0 stability? My first two civil wars were at 0 stability, so admittedly there does not seem to be much protection at 0 stability.

Nebukadnezar said:
Yes, this [plague] would be the most devasting event for you imo.
Hey the plague is not -6 manpower or -12 manpower. It is -2 manpower or -4 manpower. I got hit with a plague and only lost a total of 0.5 of manpower in Cuzco.

Nebukadnezar said:
Did you test it with centralization<max?
You don't get additional MP when you're at max centra. Set your centra to 0 just for testing.
Even with Centralization at zero, there is no significant imporvement in manpower for one vassal. How is the manpower bonus supposed to work? Does it give a percentage of the vassals manpower? There is not much manpower to be had in America.
 
Last edited:
ws2_32 said:
It is heart-breaking really. After all they finally significantly changed my favorite game. Or was I just really unlucky? Does anyone have experience with v1.09 badboy wars? I think that now a policy of maintaining +1 stability while at peace is really the way to go. I need lots of FAAs.

I've written my experiences with Stab/BB-wars in the main forum before reading this.

ws2_32 said:
Hey the plague is not -6 manpower or -12 manpower. It is -2 manpower or -4 manpower. I got hit with a plague and only lost a total of 0.5 of manpower in Cuzco.
Yes, there are 2 events for each nation size. You may have gotten the better one. -1 MP in a colony and you won't get anything from that colony. -1 MP in Saltillo and it may drop to a point where MP is 0 for you even if there is a base Manpower for that province.
For nations>200 provinces it's -4 or -6 MP.
Very nice for you that in your event plague only hit 1 province in America :)

ws2_32 said:
Even with Centralization at zero, there is no significant imporvement in manpower for one vassal. How is the manpower bonus supposed to work? Does it give a percentage of the vassals manpower? There is not much manpower to be had in America.
Strange. You get a percentage based on your MP. At least that's what happens when I release a 1-province european vassal with a european nation like Spain. Very noticeable MP-boost.
 
ws2_32 said:
It is heart-breaking really. After all they finally significantly changed my favorite game. Or was I just really unlucky? Does anyone have experience with v1.09 badboy wars? I think that now a policy of maintaining +1 stability while at peace is really the way to go. I need lots of FAAs.
Is +1 enough? I thought it just reduces the chance, but you have to be +2 to eliminate it. Then again I never actually had a civil war at +1, so maybe I'm just wrong.

ws2_32 said:
Even with Centralization at zero, there is no significant imporvement in manpower for one vassal. How is the manpower bonus supposed to work? Does it give a percentage of the vassals manpower? There is not much manpower to be had in America.
He's talking about this bug. They way it should work is that at 0 centralization, you get 50% of the vassals manpower. Due to the bug, you will also get 50% of your own manpower.
 
Sounds like a seesaw between BB wars and Civil War, over and over again. What's the cause of so many civil wars so close together?
 
Three civil wars *appreciative whistle*

As if this was not already hard enough.
 
That's some very harsh treatment you get from the game! And what is this Athuallpa supposed to do? Start his own state in the middle of nowhere :D?
 
I believe the only way to survive BB wars under 1.09 is to ensure that you always have either +1 stability or are at war. As soon as stability drops below +1 you have to DOW someone. I think 3 civil wars in one decade is pretty typical, although you were at war for some of that time.

I think I would have given up after 3 civil wars, especially given your poor manpower and manpower pool.
 
I ran some civil war tests on a seven-province Chimu with high badboy and an alliance with Inca Empire that never expired. I would guess that a civil war about every two or three years is pretty typical when over the badboy threshold and below +1 stability while at peace. That is maybe a 3% chance every month of civil war. There is evidence that civil war chances are tied to nation size. At four provinces there is no risk of civil war, regardless of badoy.

Ah yes, I give up on WC. Maybe I can just conquer Western Europe and West Africa. I need to conquer West Africa. This business of sending men across the Atlantic has got to stop. I am sick of that. If I don't catch some breaks I will have to give up.

The thing is, do I risk disaster or do I DoW now with +2 war exhuastion and only 98K troops? I can DoW Netherlands while they are just one province. Or maybe I should DoW in West Africa and suffer some war exhaustion by building 50K infantry. Or I could keep war exhaustion down by risking a "game over" fourth civil war.
 
ws2_32 said:
Ah yes, I give up on WC.

Too bad. Still, a fun read this one.
Knowing what you know now, do you think a WC is possible with Chimu on 1.09? How about with the Inca's in AGCEEP and their 1470's explorer vs far less income from gold?
 
Find an unallied 1 province minor, and occupy.. THEN settle down for WE to reduce (it reduces when at war if there's nothing going on in that war, IIRC-- although still slower than when at peace)

..sure it's exloitish, but then again, the whole theme of world conquest/bad boy wars floats on exploiting the game ;)
 
Duke of Wellington said:
I still think that just conquering Europe etc is pretty damn good.
Amen!

With a country 1/3 of the people following your story had ever heard of before, making any empire is very impressive.
 
Thems the breaks (though we hate them), three in short order sounds game breaking to me.

Dont you just hate it when everythings running smoothly....then suddenly the game pauses slighty, then wham, a million messages of "rebel scum" shoot out at ya :mad: .

Done extremely well up till now...Id say go with ForzaA's method, just to be on the safe side.