ENGLA LAND (1066): Discussions on Alternate History Mod

[Sarmatia1871]

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ENGLA LAND (1066)
Alternate History Mod For Crusader Kings
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I’ve been continually shocked that no-one seems to have attempted to make the most obvious alternate history modification to the basic 1066 scenario, or if they have, it's been hidden and lost for some time now. So I took a couple of afternoons out of my schedule to create a preliminary first version of such a mod, in which William the Bastard and the flower of the Norman nobility lie dead on the battlefield of Hastings, and mighty King Harold II Godwinson is set to assert his control over the whole of the Land of the Angles...




[CENTER]

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Scenario Files: http://rapidshare.com/files/13476556..._1066.zip.html (422KB)

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Installation

* Patch Crusader Kings to version 1.05 (latest patch).
* Copy the contents of the folder “Engla Land 1066” into your Crusader Directory, remembering to back up all necessary files first.
* OPTIONAL: The game has been optimised for use with Gratianus’ face mod (download here: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...55&postcount=2 ), so install this as well if you want to see my painstakingly designed Saxonised faces.
* Start the game, and select the scenario “Engla Land (1066)"


What This Does…

* New states set up in England, with new Coats of Arms in many cases (many are of course 19th century inventions, and some still need to be found, but it’s the best I could manage at present!)
* Reorders the various Duchies in England to reflect the Saxon Earldoms of the immediate pre-Norman period.
* Renames “Saxon” culture as “Anglo-Saxon”


Each of the new states has been designed to play in a slightly different way, so…

England - Following Harold Godwinson’s victories at Stamford Bridge and Hastings, England is the most powerful state in Britain, with three strong and loyal Earls as vassals. While the Northern Earls remain independent, it should be possible for the King of England to assert his authority over them in the coming years. However, future Kings are still chosen by the Witan, and so powerful vassals could be a threat to the succession of the dynasty…

Kent and East Anglia: Both ruled by members of the House of Godwin, Earls Leofwine and Gyrth have pledged their loyalty to their brother King Harold. Of the two, Leofwine is the stronger, holding the Earldom of Essex as well as Kent, and is in a good position to be elected the next King...

Cornwall: Ruled by Earl Cadoc, Welsh-speaking Cornwall is currently poor and weak – but its position within the Kingdom means that a Brythonic King of the Angles remains a remote possibility…

Mercia: A centralised hereditary Earldom under Edwin. Currently independent, but should it join with England Edwin will be in an excellent position to claim the throne...

Northumberland: Morcar Leofricson was elected Earl of Northumberland by the squabbling Thanes of the North-East, and holds only a small personal demesne in the environs of Westmoreland. He lacks an heir, and if he had a child, he would be unlikely to be elected the next Earl. However, were accidents to befall his brother and nephew in Mercia, the whole of the North would be in his grasp…

Northampton: Sandwiched between the Houses of Leofric and Godwin, Northampton is small and vulnerable. The only hope of the young Earl Waltheof Siward would seem to be to align himself with one of the other states…

Lincoln: Taking advantage of the chaos of 1066, the exiled Hereward Leofricson has returned and seized control of his ancestral lands in Lincoln. Can the mighty warrior overcome his poor position, and aggrandise his holdings further?
( - totally silly, and just for fun!):

And of course, the Kingdom of Scotland and the various Duchies and Counties of Ireland and Wales remain intact (Gwynedd has in fact expanded into Herefod), and may stand a better chance in this scenario than when faced against the Normans…

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Known Issues:

• This isn’t really my period and it’s principally based on what I have been able to dig up on the internet or think would be interesting to play. As such, placeholder characters and counties abound, and I’m sure the setup is crawling with historical inaccuracies.
• Most of the new characters are unmarried, but do generally have placeholder children. My attempts to insert fictional wives led to a series of horrific crashes, so I looked upon this as actions of the Wyrd and gave up. If anyone knows the real wives and children of the characters in the mod, please speak up and I’ll try again!
• Might be an idea to change the county, province, title and dynasty names to their Saxon equivalents. Any suggestions here would be very good.
• Haven’t actually played it past around 1100, so anything potential problems past then are currently unknown…
• AI England generally vassalises most of the states within the first year - do people like this, or should the Northern Earldoms be made more rebellious...?


Any corrections or suggestions are always greatly appreciated. Time permitting, there may be further versions of this if good feedback is received. Also, if anyone wants to incorporate features of this into their own projects, they are very welcome to do so – Crusader Kings needs more mods!

[DaPacemDomine]

Looks great! The ONLY thing I can think of to improve upon it would be to perhaps give a province to Edgar Atheling. He and his sister, Saint Margaret, are, c. 1066, still very much in England. They did not, historically, flee to Scotland until 1068. His claim to the throne, having been endorsed by Edward the Confessor before his death, is probably stronger than anyone else's.

[Coombes]

He probably would have been Harold's hier if he had won the battle of hastings as I dont think Harold had any children.

[Sarmatia1871]

Edgar Aetheling (and all the other Godwinsons exiled in the vanilla 1066 scenario) have all been moved back to the English court (and all the Normans killed, booted out or transformed into Saxons), where they can be appointed to whatever position the King sees fit.

Harold also has three or so children, including two sons, so he can attempt to line up some sort of proper succession...

[Beauclerc]

His claim to the throne, having been endorsed by Edward the Confessor before his death, is probably stronger than anyone else's.

That's a contentious issue to be fair. Harold claimed that he had been named as successor by the confessor before his death too.

Either way, it was largely irrelevant who the confessor named as his heir... as in Anglo-Saxon England, Kings were only crowned by the agreement of the Witan. Again, Harold has the strongest claim here, as he was the Witan's choice.

As for the scenario. I'm not convinced that the English kingdoms should be independent. Harold was King of England, and therefore the overlord of Mercia and Northumbria. While I agree that the major Earls had more independence than their Norman counterparts, they were still accountable, and 'vassals' of the King.

[Sarmatia1871]

I seem to remember reading somewhere that the northern Earls hadn't yet formally recognised Harold as King. So, leaving them independant at the start was to model this, and give the player some choice at maintaining independance if they play one of the northern Earls.

At any rate, they're part of the Kingdom of England's provinces so they do tend to submit to become English vassals fairly quickly once the scenario begins...

[gigau]

I read on a heraldry site that the following CoA was the of Edward the Confessor.





Wouldn't Harold keep it ?

Just an idea

[east_emnet]

Looks good, one question however. Is there the English Melting Pot event?

[Sarmatia1871]

Looks good, one question however. Is there the English Melting Pot event?

I haven't tested these yet to see whether or how often they fire for Saxon provinces under Saxon rulers (part of the reason I said problems after 1100 haven't been identified!). However, if they cause problems they can be deleted fairly easily...

[Sarmatia1871]

I read on a heraldry site that the following CoA was the of Edward the Confessor.

...

Wouldn't Harold keep it ?

Just an idea

I think that's Edward’s personal coat of arms, in which case Harold probably wouldn’t have adopted them directly …

The white dragon flag I’m using is from a traditional Saxon symbol, which was adopted by Alfred the Great. I believe it also features on the Bayeux tapestry...

[Timotheos]

You've managed to come up with a great mod again. Don't know how you manage it.

Just to check. I take it the Witan is represented by making England Elective Law?

[Sarmatia1871]

You've managed to come up with a great mod again. Don't know how you manage it.

Just to check. I take it the Witan is represented by making England Elective Law?

This was actually very simple to produce as all the important characters are already in the game - it took about the same time as a relatively complex event chain for HOI2!

England is elective as the closest approximation of the Witan, as is Northumbria (Morcar having been chosen by the local Thanes) - the other Earldoms are hereditary.

[Drachenfire]

This looks like a great mod! From a Welsh perspective there is Harold's wife and her first children by King Gruffydd of Wales with there claim on Mercia. I think those sons were in England.

But this does look very interesting!

[Sarmatia1871]

Hmmm, I'm not sure if these children are actually in the game - what were their names and how old would they be in 1066? Also, I'd presume they'd be of Welsh culture...?

[Reveilled]

There should be a Malcolm of Strathclyde in the court of Northumbria, with claims on the Duchies of Strathclyde and Galloway. 12 years before the scenario's start, the Earl of Northumbria at that time had engaged in a war to place Malcolm, King of the Cumbrians, back on the throne of the Kingdom of Stratchlyde. Since records are apparently unclear from this point whether that war was sucessful or not, Malcolm's continued presence in Northumbria might open avenues for a Northumbria player, without departing much from actual history.

If you were willing to go further, you could even create Strathclyde as a kingdom title covering Strathclyde, Carrick, Galloway, Cumberland, Westmoreland, and possibly Argyll, and thus provide another Kingdom title in the Isles to spice things up.

[Drachenfire]

Hmmm, I'm not sure if these children are actually in the game - what were their names and how old would they be in 1066? Also, I'd presume they'd be of Welsh culture...?

They are not credited in the current game, and indeed she is not credited with the marriage to the Welsh King Gruffydd ap Llywelyn. I am to suggest their incorporation in the 1.06 version and of corse in the Welsh Expansion I offer here. In point of fact, the Welsh Expanion would fit nicely in your mod, because the set up for the Welsh country (currently incorrect in the game) would have been the same reguardless of who won in Hastings 1066. I happily offer it to you for inclusion, as it is a worthy alternative history mod I would be interested in playing.

Ill get the expansion out by weeks end hopefully. Just need to update the Welsh characters for the last scenario, as they currently are not present. Ive been delayed with the Welsh Expansion as I also lead a guild in Star Wars Galaxies and recent changes there have claimed my attention.

By the way, what are the status of the castles in your Anglo-Saxon England? Also, should not Normandy be part of Kingdom of France as they were unsuccessful, in this mod, in their conquest of England?

[Sarmatia1871]

There should be a Malcolm of Strathclyde in the court of Northumbria, with claims on the Duchies of Strathclyde and Galloway. 12 years before the scenario's start, the Earl of Northumbria at that time had engaged in a war to place Malcolm, King of the Cumbrians, back on the throne of the Kingdom of Stratchlyde. Since records are apparently unclear from this point whether that war was sucessful or not, Malcolm's continued presence in Northumbria might open avenues for a Northumbria player, without departing much from actual history.

If you were willing to go further, you could even create Strathclyde as a kingdom title covering Strathclyde, Carrick, Galloway, Cumberland, Westmoreland, and possibly Argyll, and thus provide another Kingdom title in the Isles to spice things up.

Excellent - many thanks! Making a new Kingdom in Scotland might cause unexpected problems with the existing states up there, but Malcolm can definitely be put in.

[Sarmatia1871]

They are not credited in the current game, and indeed she is not credited with the marriage to the Welsh King Gruffydd ap Llywelyn. I am to suggest their incorporation in the 1.06 version and of corse in the Welsh Expansion I offer here. In point of fact, the Welsh Expanion would fit nicely in your mod, because the set up for the Welsh country (currently incorrect in the game) would have been the same reguardless of who won in Hastings 1066. I happily offer it to you for inclusion, as it is a worthy alternative history mod I would be interested in playing.

Ill get the expansion out by weeks end hopefully. Just need to update the Welsh characters for the last scenario, as they currently are not present. Ive been delayed with the Welsh Expansion as I also lead a guild in Star Wars Galaxies and recent changes there have claimed my attention.

By the way, what are the status of the castles in your Anglo-Saxon England? Also, should not Normandy be part of Kingdom of France as they were unsuccessful, in this mod, in their conquest of England?

Many thanls - let me know when your Welsh expansion has reached a state where it can be included!

Apart from the characters and Kingdom setup, nothing has been changed from the vanilla scenario -> So all the castles are exactly the same as in the standard 1066 scenario. I've made Normandy independant at the scenario start, but again, being part of the "core provinces" of the French Kingdom, it should submit to France fairly quickly...

[Finellach]

I think that's Edward’s personal coat of arms, in which case Harold probably wouldn’t have adopted them directly …

The three lions were also a personal CoA of 'Richard I' yet they are now commonly referred to as English CoA and thats the case now since at least 12th century. The point is most historical CoA's were at some point personal CoA's. Personally I would still like more to see a legit historical CoA used rather than image of some flag.

[Sarmatia1871]

The three lions were also a personal CoA of 'Richard I' yet they are now commonly referred to as English CoA and thats the case now since at least 12th century. The point is most historical CoA's were at some point personal CoA's. Personally I would still like more to see a legit historical CoA used rather than image of some flag.

Although I've just checked that particular site, and it does call them the "armes mythiques" of Edward the Confessor - which seems to suggest they weren't actually used by him in the first place.

This site has a further rendition Harold's own "coat of arms" at the bottom, presenting it as red, gold and with various lion heads on it. However again, whether it was actually used is another matter, unlike the white dragon flag which appears to be documented by contemporary sources.

I believe we will probably have to what for an expert in Anglo-Saxon iconography and heraldry to turn up...