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Lennartos said:
Will there be a possibility that units aside from the normal £-supply consumption will have a resource consumption?

I mean that ships/tanks use fuel, not only once when created.
Artillery uses explosives
Infantry uses ammonition.

If the local industry doesnt provide enough resources for the usage of the units, the resources should be bought from the world market, or the units will suffer organisation losses.
No more unlimited units whith one ammunition pop. :rolleyes:
.

Well, how much micromanagement do players want when they are fighting a war? You have to keep an eye on your factories to make sure they are in supply for production, you have to keep an eye on your POPs to make sure they aren't getting too militant and threatening revolution, you need to keep an eye on your relations with nations that are currently neutral so that they don't decide all of a sudden to ally with your enemies, and of course you have to keep an eye (or several) on the various land and sea fronts you are currently fighting your enemies on.

Having supplies conflated into the supply consumption is a very reasonable simulation of the ability to keep your military supplied on the field, since you only can do it if you are keeping your economy humming along. I really see no need to add yet another plate spinning on a stick to try and keep airborne to the set of chinaware already rotating, especially since the entire premise of Victoria is not focused upon achieving victory on the battlefield (that is HoI's realm), but rather on constructing an internal society cohesive and productive enough to become the greatest power on earth.
 
OHgamer said:
Well, how much micromanagement do players want when they are fighting a war? You have to keep an eye on your factories to make sure they are in supply for production, you have to keep an eye on your POPs to make sure they aren't getting too militant and threatening revolution, you need to keep an eye on your relations with nations that are currently neutral so that they don't decide all of a sudden to ally with your enemies, and of course you have to keep an eye (or several) on the various land and sea fronts you are currently fighting your enemies on.

Having supplies conflated into the supply consumption is a very reasonable simulation of the ability to keep your military supplied on the field, since you only can do it if you are keeping your economy humming along. I really see no need to add yet another plate spinning on a stick to try and keep airborne to the set of chinaware already rotating, especially since the entire premise of Victoria is not focused upon achieving victory on the battlefield (that is HoI's realm), but rather on constructing an internal society cohesive and productive enough to become the greatest power on earth.

well said. (it in no way relates to the fact that I stink at the military aspects of Victoria as it is, and compounding the issue with supply micromanagement would have me blubbering like a little girl)

Ayeshteni
 
Fiftypence said:
Btw, in those screenies is that Japan in Crimea?

Looks like it.

Must be the Northern Strategy being implemented instead of the Southern Strategy, and a diversion into the Mediterranean Basin undertaken.

:D
 
Like for all updates, only on comment: "looking forward to it"! :p
And just hoping that it will be released before I am unable to download it! :rofl:
 
Lennartos said:
Will there be a possibility that units aside from the normal £-supply consumption will have a resource consumption?

I mean that ships/tanks use fuel, not only once when created.
Artillery uses explosives
Infantry uses ammonition.

If the local industry doesnt provide enough resources for the usage of the units, the resources should be bought from the world market, or the units will suffer organisation losses.
No more unlimited units whith one ammunition pop. :rolleyes:

Oh, I would like that. In WWI the shortage on ammunition was one of the principal problems, and this would give more sense to those ammunition factories.
 
OHgamer said:
Well, how much micromanagement do players want when they are fighting a war? You have to keep an eye on your factories to make sure they are in supply for production, you have to keep an eye on your POPs to make sure they aren't getting too militant and threatening revolution, you need to keep an eye on your relations with nations that are currently neutral so that they don't decide all of a sudden to ally with your enemies, and of course you have to keep an eye (or several) on the various land and sea fronts you are currently fighting your enemies on.

Having supplies conflated into the supply consumption is a very reasonable simulation of the ability to keep your military supplied on the field, since you only can do it if you are keeping your economy humming along. I really see no need to add yet another plate spinning on a stick to try and keep airborne to the set of chinaware already rotating, especially since the entire premise of Victoria is not focused upon achieving victory on the battlefield (that is HoI's realm), but rather on constructing an internal society cohesive and productive enough to become the greatest power on earth.

The greatest change is that the greatest military power, actually needs a military production, or have prestige and money enogh to buy ammunition from the world market. In short: if you produce ammunition, you can have a greater military for the same supply cost.

If you have set the worldmarket to buy ammunition below 100 you already have done all the micromanegement necessary to simulate this.
( assumed that the infantry actually use up ammunition )
The new revolution feature of an alarm if pruduction < usage would be a great hint of shortage in war.
of course the usage of ammunition/oil should be far greater for units in battle.
 
Lennartos said:
Will there be a possibility that units aside from the normal £-supply consumption will have a resource consumption?

I mean that ships/tanks use fuel, not only once when created.
Artillery uses explosives
Infantry uses ammonition.

If the local industry doesnt provide enough resources for the usage of the units, the resources should be bought from the world market, or the units will suffer organisation losses.
No more unlimited units whith one ammunition pop. :rolleyes:

And what about manpower when converting pops to soldiers.
When i convert a 100K pop to soldiers i shouldnt have 100K manpower trained and ready to insert in my african troops the same day.
I would fancy seeing that, though it might add to microing...but on the other hand people tend to check if they are producing enough things anyway.
 
Lennartos said:
The greatest change is that the greatest military power, actually needs a military production, or have prestige and money enogh to buy ammunition from the world market. In short: if you produce ammunition, you can have a greater military for the same supply cost.

If you have set the worldmarket to buy ammunition below 100 you already have done all the micromanegement necessary to simulate this.
( assumed that the infantry actually use up ammunition )
The new revolution feature of an alarm if pruduction < usage would be a great hint of shortage in war.
of course the usage of ammunition/oil should be far greater for units in battle.

But again to what benefit is this change needed? You just add yet another thing to keep in mind in the middle of a war. Again, Victoria is not strictly a warfare strategy game where you need to make sure your armies are being kept at optimal performace - that is HoI. Warfare is only one aspect to Victoria, and I would argue not even the primary aspect, and there is really no need to complicate what is already a complicated game when the elements are already effectively addressed in the overall question of supply consumption. When the general direction of the changes being made in Revolutions is to reduce the amount of micromanaging needed, why should additional elements be added that adds to the number of tasks being undertaken when a player is fighting a war, especially when said elements do not add in a significant way to the overall gameplay in any constructive way.

Micromanagement is micromanagement, regardless if it is worrying whether factories are maintaining production or miltary units are getting supplies. If I have to choose between the factories on the home front and the troops at the field, I'd rather prefer not to worry about the individual needs of the units and focus instead on the bigger picture of the society at war on the home front.
 
OHgamer said:
Well, how much micromanagement do players want when they are fighting a war?

More More!

Seriously, i quite agree with Lennartos.Having devissions consume ammunitions, war material, heck even food would be great.Though i understand that this isn't everyone's cup of tea.Note though that IMO it would be a very worthwhile addition, i always thought this would be a quite obvious feature for a game like this.

But again to what benefit is this change needed?

It simulmates a really important strategical consideration of that time.Quite a few country's in Vicky's time period were way more limited in their potential to fight wars due to lack of constant supply of ammunitions, food, shells, etc rather than for ex a lack of manpower or a lack of finances.For ex. in WW1 Brittain's goverment fell in scandal due to the lack of shell production.

In vicky you don't even have to consider food production!No country could just add armies until their manpower was gone, they still needed food production and supply's.Hence why WW1 made such a great contribution to women's suffrage, when the male's went fighting someone still had to produce their material.

In fact, often majors could win wars in the Vicky period due to the mere advantage of being able to supply their army's with a constant rate of ammo.It is no small consideration in that time period, it's actually a very large one, and a strategical consideration wich fits a strategical game.
 
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The solution to colonial manpower! Great!
 
TheFlemishDuck said:
More More!

Seriously, i quite agree with Lennartos.Having devissions consume ammunitions, war material, heck even food would be great.Though i understand that this isn't everyone's cup of tea.Note though that IMO it would be a very worthwhile addition, i always thought this would be a quite obvious feature for a game like this.

I don't know, adding the micromanaging elements of HoI to the remaining micromanaging elements of Victoria while trying to fight a war I think would end up being too much, if not for players, than for the game engine. Considering how the game slows down in large wars towards the end of the scenario in 1.4, adding having the game engine compute use of specific resources for all active units in addition to all the calculations being made for factory production and what the POPs are up to could cause lower end systems some real issues with memory.

If Revolutions was a true Victoria 2 where it could have higher base requirements, then it is something that perhaps could be considered. But considering the expansion will be added to base released back in 2003 with its low minimum requirements (128 mB Ram, 256 recommended and 450 mHz processor, 800 mHz recommended), the need to keep engine functionality for lower end systems has to be put into the calculations of features.
 
Military units do not consume resources, you can bet if that had been planned for the expansion you would of heard about it by now.
 
Confirmation!

I'm glad, though. The resource thing would have been too much micromanagement, even for me, a seasoned Vicky player...
 
Well, I've just seen that the need for ammunition is already covered here, the everyday needs file:

Code:
soldiers = {
	canned_food = 0.2
	coffee = 0.5
	fruit = 0.5
	tea = 0.5
	tobacco = 0.5
	liquor = 0.3
	ammunition = 0.1
	fabric = 0.1
}

It would be good to have an effect on pops if they can't get certain goods. For example, farmers could get better production if they have been supplied with fertilizers, and a soldier pop's division could fight worse if they aren't supplied with ammunition.
 
OHgamer said:
I don't know, adding the micromanaging elements of HoI to the remaining micromanaging elements of Victoria while trying to fight a war I think would end up being too much, if not for players, than for the game engine. Considering how the game slows down in large wars towards the end of the scenario in 1.4, adding having the game engine compute use of specific resources for all active units in addition to all the calculations being made for factory production and what the POPs are up to could cause lower end systems some real issues with memory.

If Revolutions was a true Victoria 2 where it could have higher base requirements, then it is something that perhaps could be considered. But considering the expansion will be added to base released back in 2003 with its low minimum requirements (128 mB Ram, 256 recommended and 450 mHz processor, 800 mHz recommended), the need to keep engine functionality for lower end systems has to be put into the calculations of features.

Well i repect youre oppinion, and others.I guess Lennartos and i only represent a certain segment of the Vicky fanbase that would rather have such feature's implemented.That said Johan has da powa stick and we won't get it,... , for now.Atleast though consider it as a logical possibilety for an additional feature for a later installement of Vicky, like Vicky2 ,as certain people will find this a quite logical and realistic feature for a strategy game of this scale.
 
Andrelvis said:
Well, I've just seen that the need for ammunition is already covered here, the everyday needs file:

Code:
soldiers = {
	canned_food = 0.2
	coffee = 0.5
	fruit = 0.5
	tea = 0.5
	tobacco = 0.5
	liquor = 0.3
	ammunition = 0.1
	fabric = 0.1
}

It would be good to have an effect on pops if they can't get certain goods. For example, farmers could get better production if they have been supplied with fertilizers, and a soldier pop's division could fight worse if they aren't supplied with ammunition.

Pops buy directly from the WM.This kind of import can not be blockaded for ex. .