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The Butterfly Effect: A British AAR

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One man's fiend is another man's champion. :) The very thing that in OTL that made FDR the absolutely right man whether revisionist historians want to admit it is that he made it clear he was not going to sit on his rump and wait while Americans suffered. "Try SOMETHING and if it fails... Admit it honestly and try something else." Beats.. "Recovery is just around the corner." any day.

Government will always try to perpetuate itself and its influence and big business left to its own devices does not tend to give a flip about the general welfare.
 
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El Pip said:
C&DOf course Royal Dutch Shell are involved, they have a stake in the Iraqi fields and of course their Mexico operations, which will be interesting in later updates...
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Hey, Mexico! I remember that being a casus belli for a republican US president. So there might be a risk of a Clash of the Cartels? Landon wants to take Mexican oil to repay the petroleum lobby, and the British cartel takes a dim view on anything that may hurt or impede their team's assets in Mexico? Strangers things have happened in AARland. And it just might be a good excuse to once and for all revoke that pesky indipendence of those yankee rebels.
 
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Interesting update. Landon is walking a thin line, but given the circumstances he hasn't much choice. The LRA strikes me as a reasonable compromise, though I'd expect both sides to try and game it at the State level, and the sympathy/wildcat strike ban will most likely end up in the Supreme Court at some point.

One thought about the IOOPC - you mentioned Royal Dutch Shell, so does that mean that the Dutch East Indies are de facto part of IOOPC? Or is there an imperial border between the Royal Dutch and the Shell parts? If the East Indies are included, the IOOPC appears to cover pretty much all Eastern Hemisphere production outside the Soviet Union - which suggests that any country that needs oil and does not wish to be dependent on the British (e.g. Japan) will have no option but to get it from Western Hemisphere sources. Landon's Moral Neutrality may be tested sooner than he'd like.
 
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KiMaSa said:
One man's fiend is another man's champion. :) The very thing that in OTL that made FDR the absolutely right man whether revisionist historians want to admit it is that he made it clear he was not going to sit on his rump and wait while Americans suffered. "Try SOMETHING and if it fails... Admit it honestly and try something else." Beats.. "Recovery is just around the corner." any day.
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"Try SOMETHING and if it fails... Admit it honestly and try something else."

FDR's famous quote...now BP's slogan.
 
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KiMaSa - It was however spooky that everything he tried always resulted in more power for his office, not for any other branch of the government but always the President.

Plus when did he ever actually admit to a mistake? Wasn't his approach normally just to ignore the courts (after failing to rig them) and instead re-name the legislation and then pass it again?

C&D - But would anyone in Britain actually want the US back? It's a bankrupt and corrupt nation full of mobsters, there are surely better places to conquer. :D

merrick - If the LRA has passed through scrutiny on this thread without being attacked from either side, I think it will probably get past public opinion and the courts. :)

The IOOPC will be a fairly lose organisation and it's main aim to start will be trying to balance all the new Middle East sources without utterly tanking the oil price. I see Shell being dragged in on the back of that (through their Iraqi stakes) at which point the DEI, Burma and everywhere else starts getting involved.

However this could actually be good for Japan, after all the cartel will probably be most interested in keeping demand (and thus price) high. As cutting off Japan means cuts in quotas Britain and the Dutch will face a well organised and well funded lobby.

Nathan Madien - BP should try learn from their American competitors, somehow US firms can kill more people through gross negligence but don't have the President making obscene (and illegal) threats.

KaiserMuffin - Witty. :rolleyes:
 
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KaiserMuffin said:
I still think Obama should Nationalise the US oil industry... they're a rogue state after all.
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He wont do that, he'll just have all leading oil men killed. Like this.

Because everyone knows courts and due process are for wusses. And remember Obama never actually specified what the 'Change' was so you can't complain, or he'll have you killed and then boast about it.
 
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Nathan Madien said:
"Try SOMETHING and if it fails... Admit it honestly and try something else."

FDR's famous quote...now BP's slogan.
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It's a better slogan than our Administration's...

"Sit on our hands and blame BP, while desperately hoping BP solves the problem."
 
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El Pip said:
C&D - But would anyone in Britain actually want the US back? It's a bankrupt and corrupt nation full of mobsters, there are surely better places to conquer. :D
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It's Britain's moral duty to bring civilization to those mobster infested lands and show them the real problem with alcohol; they can't brew it worth a damn, it's not even room temperature! Once there's a commonwealth governor running the country, their head of state is once again a king, and their dictionary has been adjusted to use proper English, all these problems will be resolved as well. Such is the Englishman's burden.
 
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El Pip said:
KiMaSa - It was however spooky that everything he tried always resulted in more power for his office, not for any other branch of the government but always the President.

Plus when did he ever actually admit to a mistake? Wasn't his approach normally just to ignore the courts (after failing to rig them) and instead re-name the legislation and then pass it again?
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Then he tries to purge the Democratic Party of those who have the nerve to say "No" to him. You forgot to mention that, El Pip.

KaiserMuffin said:
I still think Obama should Nationalise the US oil industry... they're a rogue state after all. Can do what they like. It'd fix the credit crunch in a moment too.
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I don't think the people on Fox News could handle that, especially that Beck fellow. He is already paranoid as it is.

TheExecuter said:
It's a better slogan than our Administration's...

"Sit on our hands and blame BP, while desperately hoping BP solves the problem."
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I wonder how the Landon Administration would handle this crisis, given Landon's oil background.
 
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I suppose there will be little momentum in the US regards to race/segregation questions et al? Did Landon have any views on this OTL?
 
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Nathan Madien said:
I don't think the people on Fox News could handle that, especially that Beck fellow. He is already paranoid as it is.
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Are you kidding? That guy launches into a fierce diatribe about taxes and the New World Order if you so much as ask if he wants earl grey or mint tea. Like a gamer who shoots up his school, anything would have set him off.
 
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KaiserMuffin said:
BP as in 'B*****d Polluters Inc.' ?
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As opposed to Occidental (Piper Alpha) or Union Carbide / Dow Chemicals (Bhopal)

Or even Exxon (Exxon Valdez) or Amoco (Amoco Cadiz)

Just a touch too much nationalistic outrage going on in the US right now - particularly as 95% of the guys on the rig were Americans working with American procedures and American legislation and using (apparently defective) American tools.
 
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Derek Pullem said:
As opposed to Occidental (Piper Alpha) or Union Carbide / Dow Chemicals (Bhopal)

Or even Exxon (Exxon Valdez) or Amoco (Amoco Cadiz)

Just a touch too much nationalistic outrage going on in the US right now - particularly as 95% of the guys on the rig were Americans working with American procedures and American legislation and using (apparently defective) American tools.
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Just a clarification, the facility at Bhopal was operated by Union Carbide at the time of the disaster (1984). Dow merged with Union Carbide in 2001, however, before that time...the Indian government purchased the Bhopal site and assumed responsibility for handling all claims and legal ramifications of the tragedy (as they did not trust Union Carbide, for good reason). Therefore, you cannot associate Dow Chemical with the disaster, as they only purchased Union Carbide 17 years after the disaster and have been actively prevented by the Indian government from doing anything regarding Bhopal.

This is like blaming BP for the Amoco Cadiz disaster. Totally insane.
 
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Derek Pullem said:
As opposed to Occidental (Piper Alpha) or Union Carbide / Dow Chemicals (Bhopal)

Or even Exxon (Exxon Valdez) or Amoco (Amoco Cadiz)

Just a touch too much nationalistic outrage going on in the US right now - particularly as 95% of the guys on the rig were Americans working with American procedures and American legislation and using (apparently defective) American tools.
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I wouldn't know, but this would be typical of the colonials :rofl:
 
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TheExecuter said:
Just a clarification, the facility at Bhopal was operated by Union Carbide at the time of the disaster (1984). Dow merged with Union Carbide in 2001, however, before that time...the Indian government purchased the Bhopal site and assumed responsibility for handling all claims and legal ramifications of the tragedy (as they did not trust Union Carbide, for good reason). Therefore, you cannot associate Dow Chemical with the disaster, as they only purchased Union Carbide 17 years after the disaster and have been actively prevented by the Indian government from doing anything regarding Bhopal.

This is like blaming BP for the Amoco Cadiz disaster. Totally insane.
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Only trying to help the younger members of this forum who may not have heard of Union Carbide. And I suspect that former Union Carbide employees continue to work for Dow (as Amoco employees do for BP) so the say that a defunct / taken over company's responsibility dies with the take over is neither legally nor morally correct - this is going OT so I will leave it there ;)
 
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El Pip said:
KiMaSa - It was however spooky that everything he tried always resulted in more power for his office, not for any other branch of the government but always the President.

Plus when did he ever actually admit to a mistake? Wasn't his approach normally just to ignore the courts (after failing to rig them) and instead re-name the legislation and then pass it again?

C&D - But would anyone in Britain actually want the US back? It's a bankrupt and corrupt nation full of mobsters, there are surely better places to conquer. :D

merrick - If the LRA has passed through scrutiny on this thread without being attacked from either side, I think it will probably get past public opinion and the courts. :)

The IOOPC will be a fairly lose organisation and it's main aim to start will be trying to balance all the new Middle East sources without utterly tanking the oil price. I see Shell being dragged in on the back of that (through their Iraqi stakes) at which point the DEI, Burma and everywhere else starts getting involved.

However this could actually be good for Japan, after all the cartel will probably be most interested in keeping demand (and thus price) high. As cutting off Japan means cuts in quotas Britain and the Dutch will face a well organised and well funded lobby.

Nathan Madien - BP should try learn from their American competitors, somehow US firms can kill more people through gross negligence but don't have the President making obscene (and illegal) threats.

KaiserMuffin - Witty. :rolleyes:
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Heaven knows what you think of Lincoln then... aside from the (In European eyes) Sin of saving the Union, Lincoln was by far the greatest abuser of power in US Hisory. Suspending Habeas Corpus and when Chief Justice Taney declared his actions unconstitutional, Lincoln threatened to lock up the Chief Justice! Lincoln and FDR AND Churchill were all political creatures and the free world was lucky to get them at the time and place each was there.

The Saints in politics usually don't get far because in politics the devil is always at the table. :cool:
 
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C&D said:
It's Britain's moral duty to bring civilization to those mobster infested lands and show them the real problem with alcohol; they can't brew it worth a damn, it's not even room temperature! Once there's a commonwealth governor running the country, their head of state is once again a king, and their dictionary has been adjusted to use proper English, all these problems will be resolved as well. Such is the Englishman's burden.
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I'll only say this once... Don't go there. We trusted your Kings once. never again... :eek:
 
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Derek Pullem said:
Only trying to help the younger members of this forum who may not have heard of Union Carbide. And I suspect that former Union Carbide employees continue to work for Dow (as Amoco employees do for BP) so the say that a defunct / taken over company's responsibility dies with the take over is neither legally nor morally correct - this is going OT so I will leave it there ;)
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Ah. Good then. I would agree with you on Dow's moral responsibility...but would also remind you that the Indian government has rebuffed Dow's attempts to help on several occasions. The legal position is a bit muddled.

As you say, OT.

I do think we need to get that update on British domestic affairs soon...that might get us back on topic.
 
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