• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
First things first, I do hope our Australian contingent aren't too upset at being thrashed in the T20 World Cup Final and display the good manners, sportsmanship and dignity in defeat for which Australia is justly famous.

Clearly, this unexpected success can only be attributed to the inspiration and decisive leadership of the new Cameron/Clegg coalition government. :rolleyes:

I await the beef update on the morrow. I will have mine medium rare, thanks.
 
  • 1Haha
Reactions:
El Pip said:
I do hope our Australian contingent aren't too upset at being thrashed in the T20 World Cup Final and display the good manners, sportsmanship and dignity in defeat for which Australia is justly famous.

Why is it Poms only ever mention cricket after they beat Australia?!? Must be some sort of inferiority complex I guess...

Davout said:
Clearly, this unexpected success can only be attributed to the inspiration and decisive leadership of the new Cameron/Clegg coalition government.

So when the Socceroos knock them out in the Second Round, can we blame the Football World Cup failure on them too?!? ;)

"Coalition splits over Capello tactical blunder. Miliband asked to form government by Queen!"​
:D

Roll on the update, even a beef update is better than no update.

Dury.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:
Finally have a word cloud of the Butterfly Effect so far and await tomorrows dawn, for tomorrow I update and quality be damned!

WordCloudCh94.png

Wow, El Pip. This makes me want to chew on some beef.
 
  • 1Haha
Reactions:
Apologies for the delay I keep thinking I'm close to an update but then realise it's awful and I have to start again. I fear the challenge of making beef interesting may be a challenge too far. :(

Finally have a word cloud of the Butterfly Effect so far and await tomorrows dawn, for tomorrow I update and quality be damned!


Time for an update. I thought I would help by filling in the bottom of the page.

Now it is all set up for Cows with Guns for the top of the next page.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:
Chapter XCV: Affairs of Steak
Chapter XCV: Affairs of Steak

The historic international beef trade, doubtless a thrilling roller-coaster of a subject to the specialist, would not merit our attention in and of itself, however it does have merit as an excellent example of the problems that Imperial Preference encountered in the late 1930s. While there are countless other products who's trade could also server as an example of these issues, the beef trade has the added advantage that it was tied up in both Dominion politics and the wider foreign policy situation. As such it is worthy of our attention, if not perhaps are undying interest. The basic situation was simple and had not changed for many years; Britain was a net importer of beef and the Dominion governments, especially the Antipodeans, wanted their farmers to supply that market. How those desires would mesh with Imperial Preference and the wider economic and diplomatic situation is where we will find the meat of this subject.

pvRsTtB.png

The UK Beef Market in 1937. Taken as a whole the British Beef market was worth around £70million with total imports comprising half of that for a total of around £35million. To put those figures in context HMS Ark Royal cost in the region £3.5million to take from design to commission and Australian GDP that year was just over £450million. The sums therefore were not insignificant, particularly as demand (and prices) were correctly expected to rise over the coming years as the British economy continued to power out of the Depression. The stakes were furthered raised as Britain was the only major beef importer in the world, accounting for over 90% of world imports, quite simply if you didn't sell to Britain there were no other markets.

As the above graph clearly shows that Argentina had retained her historic commanding position in the British beef market despite Imperial Preference, a direct result of the Anglo-Argentinian Roca-Runciman Treaty which had put a floor under the Argentine beef trade in exchange for concession to British interests in Argentina. While this did annoy the Dominion, especially the Antipodeans who coveted the Argentinians market share, the entire issue was soon drowned out by the escalating Anglo-Irish trade war which neatly (if inadvertently) solved the problem. With Irish cattle subject to penal tariffs the trade naturally collapsed leaving a void into which the Dominion trade could expand without squeezing the protected Argentine trade. The most pressing problem solved it was convenient for all sides to avoid looking at the fundamental issues involved; as Imperial Preference was perceived to be successful (not least by the various electorates) there was little to be gained and much to be lost by looking for problems. While work continued in the background of government, the political establishment as a whole moved onto new matters, leaving them almost entirely unprepared when the problem re-emerged in a most unexpected location; Canada.

The problem was slow to emerge as Canada was, for the most part, self-sufficient in meat, only after the rapid economic growth on the back of the British war effort and subsequent Canadian re-armament did the nation need to import. Imperial Preference should have ensured that it was Australian or New Zealand farmers who benefited, yet despite the high Canadian import tariffs it was Argentinian beef, especially the much prized Argentine steak, that began flowing into the country. The mechanism was as old as it was cunning, Argentine beef was imported tariff free to Britain, processed so it became a 'British' product for tax and tariff purposes and then shipped equally tariff free to Canada where it was sold as prime Argentinian beef. The extra sea miles increased costs but the large premium on Argentinian steak ensured a healthy profit overall, an outcome that delighted the men behind the venture but annoyed almost everyone else. It was in fact a perfect storm, despite the low volume of material and the relatively tiny sums involved, it managed to hit almost every button simultaneously and exposed the tensions inherent in Imperial Preference.

Quite simply it was not and is not possible to run a coherent free trade block when the member states are free to arrange their own bi-lateral trade agreements. The opportunities for arbitrage are too great and will distort the system as goods 'leak' into the system, a problem made all the worse for the Empire by the vast distances involved; it is 10,000 miles from Canberra to Ottawa as the crow flies, shipping costs over such vast distances are significant even today, in the 1930s they were dominant. For Imperial Preference to survive there would need to be a common trade policy in the Empire which, given the importance of trade to international affairs required co-ordination on foreign and economic policy. As the general drift of Dominion affairs had been towards greater and greater independence on these matters a sudden reversal towards a more co-operative (and inevitably British dominated) state of affairs would require a significant change in policy direction. To add to the problem there many, including important figures such as the Canadian Prime Minster Mackenzie King, who were only lukewarm about "Empire" free trade to begin with and wished instead for full free trade.

XKEcrIc.png

The vast Sao Paulo station, the link between the port of Santos and the coffee producing highlands. One of the triumphs of British Victorian engineering the Sao Paulo Railway (SPR) was just one of the countless British owned railways in South America and became a bargaining chips used by the Brazilian governments to ensure access to the British beef market. It was an apt coincidence that the chairman of the SPR was none other than the Earl of Bessborough, the former Governor General of Canada who's calm leadership of the Ottawa Imperial Economic Conference had been key to getting acceptance for Imperial Preference. It was therefore Bessborough's success in Ottawa that caused him such trouble at the SPR; the web of Anglo-Brazilian agreements that provided the SPR with it's favourable position in Brazil could not easily be reconciled with the demands of Imperial Preference. Similar situations existed across South America as long standing British commercial interests butted against those of the Dominions.

With the political establishment grasping for answers the civil service stepped in with their default solution; a Head's of Government meeting to stall for time and then a Royal Commission to kick the matter into the long grass while the problem was sorted out. Had the problems with Imperial Preference been confined to beef, or even to the meat trade in general, this doubtless would have been acceptable, but the complaints and fears where far more widespread. In Australia for instance there were worries about South American wool exports leaking into Britain through bi-lateral trade deals, this was a serious concern as almost 2/3rds of Australian exports were wool or woollen products, making the country's colossal national herd of 110 million sheep one of the pillars of the Australian economy. These fears were shared by New Zealand and South Africa, both large wool exporters, though not quite so dependent as Australia. For all three nations the continued competition from South America, particularly from nations such as Argentina and Uruguay, was a long standing annoyance and seemed to them to fly in the face of the aims of Imperial Preference.

Conversely in Canada it was the free trade lobby that took the chance to make their case. The main worry for such men was the nations lost US partners, from a pre-Depression high of over £400million cross-border trade had slumped to less than £100million and despite the presence of yet another pro-tariff president in the White House they continued to nurture their free trade dreams. Arching above all of this was the growing problem of industrialisation, if Britain's industries sold to the Dominions where would the nascent local industries find their markets? Equally if the Dominion industries began to dominate their local markets where would Britain's industrialists find replacement customers? As we have seen with defence spending these were live issues which could not be long delayed and, as with defence, the solution would require the co-operation and acceptance of all the parties involved.

Therefore the Royal Commission was vetoed and instead agreement was reached to stage a second Imperial Economic Conference, this time in London, to resolve matters. Where the Ottawa conference had established the foundations of Empire Free Trade it would be up to the London conference to make the grand idea work.

---
Notes:
Next time I suggest anything similar to a beef update tell me I'm an idiot. That was not easy to write and at times not even enjoyable. Thank the lord it's over.

Right so as always the numbers are indeed correct, Australia did have 110million sheep in the mid-1930s or 16 each to put it another way. The jokes really make themselves don't they? Equally true is the terrifying importance of wool to Australia, I've seen a few estimates that exports were half the Australian economy at the time, meaning wool exports were a 1/3rd of the total Australian economy and that's without even allowing for domestic demand and the lamb/mutton trade.

The Canadian trade figure are roughly OTL, the peak number was from 1929 and the lower was an low ball estimate from 1933. In TTL it's probably even worse than that but I didn't want to over do it.

Britain was the only country to import beef in large quantities and I can't really say why, there's not that much good beef country in Britain I guess. OTL it was 85% of the pre-WW2 market with Germany and Italy making up most of the rest, with Italy utterly bankrupt I figure the Italians are probably eating less steak so I've bumped up Britain's share.

The London Conference has to find a way to make Imperial Preference work in a way that doesn't bugger up British investments in South America (well over £1 billion at the time, and British GDP was only £4.5 billion in 1935) or utterly screw over the Dominions exports or industries (even if Britain wanted to, they are now assertive enough to resist). A hell of a circle to square but there are plus points; Alf Landon is very pro-tariff so that'll will deprive Canada (and PM King) of somewhere to run and everyone thinks Imperial Preference saved them from the Depression so there is good will to make it work. Still a tough job.
 
Last edited:
  • 1Love
  • 1Like
Reactions:
Impressive Pip, your a braver man than I to write on beef and although doubtless a tedious subject to research and write it was an intriguing update. But them I'm happy as a pig in muck with economic-political skullduggery. Or should that be cow? :p
 
  • 1
Reactions:
Funny, but this was one of most interesting updates to me. It really is magnificent how you managed to turn agriculture updates into a debate about free trade and protectionism, things of greatest importance now and in TTL. :)

Slightly offtopic - what are GDP estimates for TTL major countries?
 
  • 1
Reactions:
The London Conference has to find a way to make Imperial Preference ... A hell of a circle to square but there are plus points.

First, love the title.

Sounds like a lot of funny math to come, balancing UK manufactured exports to the Dominions with their desire to protect their developing industries AND balancing S.American & Dominion agricultural exports to the UK ...

As you mention, the USA's continuing weakness might let this work, as less competition from there means a a larger % of the economic/trade pie for everyone else to slice up.

I don't suppose the terms of the Anglo-Italian peace treaty included free British access to Italian markets? ;)
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:
A beef update coming in the wake of the tractor update? You're spoiling us El Pip.

Seriously, I'm impressed that you can even come up with the idea of integrating beef exports into your AAR, it makes the world far more believable and interesting.
 
  • 1
Reactions:
Next time I suggest anything similar to a beef update tell me I'm an idiot. That was not easy to write and at times not even enjoyable.
Still an interesting update. I was suprised Canada wasn't a beef exporter - you'd think Alberta and Manitoba produced plenty of the stuff, but I suppose the bulk of the population is in the East and development outstripped supply. It shows up the tensions inside the Empire - the more the Dominions develop the less they function as simple raw material sources/captive markets for British industry and the less likely their governments are to take orders from London.
 
  • 1
Reactions:
With the political establishment grasping for answers the civil service stepped in with their default solution; a Head's of Government meeting to stall for time.
:rofl:

Working for the Commonwealth Secretariat, I can confirm that this is the standard approach: if it doubt, kick it upstairs to High Commissioners. They will fail to resolve it, and pass the buck to Ministers. They will also fail to resolve it, and will pass it onto Heads of Government.

and then a Royal Commission to kick the matter into the long grass while the problem was sorted out.
And this is the usual response: Heads will kick it back downstairs, usually with all sorts of conflicting and mutually exclusive provisos/conditions. The only hope is to then set up a working group and pray the matter goes away for a few years. Then, rinse and repeat in 3 years time.;). The peril of operating by consensus...



A truly fascinating update: who would have though that an update on the Beef Industry would turn into a top level debate on Free Trade vs Imperial Preference?
 
  • 1
Reactions:
Another fantastic prime rump steak of an update El Pip and not a hint of gristle. I don't know how you manage it, i'm merely glad that you do, this is by far one of the most entertaining AARs on the forums. Keep up the great work. :)

Haarken
 
  • 1
Reactions:
Remind me in the future when I write an AAR with a chapter on imperial trade policies, I'll include beef! Lots of it, especially corned. Nothing like sprouts, corned beef and potatoes...
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:
Originally posted by El Pip

Notes:
Next time I suggest anything similar to a beef update tell me I'm an idiot. That was not easy to write and at times not even enjoyable. Thank the lord it's over.
You're an idiot. :rofl::rofl::rofl:

That will teach you for listening to the Tractor lobby.

Of course, this would have been much easier if you had been an Australian. Every Australian school child up to the 1970's was taught that the country rode on the sheep's back although now days they are taught that it rides on the back of the coal freighters going to China.

Also, most of the large cattle properties in Western Australia and Queensland were British-owned so it would not be such a difficult political decision to give preference to Australian beef, it was just that the Argentinian beef was much cheaper because of its proximity and therefore lower transport costs.

I take it the US president is next. Take your time. I am sure that you will need a long lie down after the trial of the beef update.
 
  • 1
Reactions:
Time for an update. I thought I would help by filling in the bottom of the page.

Now it is all set up for Cows with Guns for the top of the next page.

You got your wish, Davout.

The historic international beef trade, doubtless a thrilling roller-coaster of a subject to the specialist, would not merit our attention in and of itself, however it does have merit as an excellent example of the problems that Imperial Preference encountered in the late 1930s.

I like the tongue-in-cheek tone in the opening.

How those desires would mesh with Imperial Preference and the wider economic and diplomatic situation is where we will find the meat of this subject.

I chuckled at the pun.

El Pip, you did a good job making meat talk interesting. :cool:
 
Last edited:
  • 1
Reactions:
Well Pip, if you found it tedious, we didn't! Making steak interesting is a new one, but well done.
 
  • 1
Reactions:
Another excellent update. Seems things are progressing well. I shall have to think somthing even more remote yet strangely interesting for you to write about.
 
  • 1
Reactions:
Of course, this would have been much easier if you had been an Australian. Every Australian school child up to the 1970's was taught that the country rode on the sheep's back although now days they are taught that it rides on the back of the coal freighters going to China.

Don't forget Iron Ore! :D

Great work pippy, loved the title.

Dury.
 
  • 1
Reactions:
Another excellent update. Seems things are progressing well. I shall have to think somthing even more remote yet strangely interesting for you to write about.

The development of book covers?
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: