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Thread: The Butterfly Effect: A British AAR

  1. #3221
    Lord of Slower-than-real-time El Pip's Avatar
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    C&D - I agree, this Spanish Civil War is going to lack the ideological edge the OTL one had. It's going to be hard to raise international brigades of idealists to fight against the Monarchists, it's not exactly a promising rallying cry for non-Spaniards is it?

    However I think Spain may prefer to stay out of any future war regardless of who wins, just because there's no grand ideology doesn't mean it wont be a nasty and brutal war.

    DonnieBaseball - You missed out FDR and Al Smith also having bowed out. Truly the random generator in this game has embraced the Butterfly Effect and keeps picking important people to kill off.

    Good call on the winners and losers, that's how I saw it as well. I think France gets the Bronze medal as they're getting the bulk of the Republican cash sales, a handy shot in the arm for the economy but it's only masking the deeper problems (like still being on the gold standard)

    KaiserMuffin - If anyone can flatten anything using only Hawker Hart light bombers they deserve to be immortalised in paint.

    Sir Humphrey - The tractors are coming, surely that is compensation enough?

    Duritz - You forget that the Republicans do not have an (effective) unified chain of command; coordinating between the actual government forces, the militias and the separatists was hard before, now with distrust over who killed who it's only going to get worse.

    Still the Monarchists are little better at the moment so neither side is going to manage a single focus. I will wait to see what the AI does and 'interpret' it accordingly.

    Kurt_Steiner - The power of "command = { type = sleepleader which = -1 }" has worked out for the best it seems, the random selection of Franco for death is meeting with approval.

    As you say Hedilla was one of Franco's big rivals so wouldn't be his picked successor, however with Franco dead the Germans needed a new man to back and Hedilla was apparently popular with the German ambassador and OTL got some help from notable Finnish Nazi-actor-spy-nutter Carl von Haartman. On the basis of that my guess was that he would become the new head of the German supported faction.

    I guess I could have worded it better, maybe;
    Quote Originally Posted by El Pip
    Franco's replacement as head of the German faction Manuel Hedilla
    Something like that?
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    Major Kasakka's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by El Pip View Post
    C&D - I agree, this Spanish Civil War is going to lack the ideological edge the OTL one had. It's going to be hard to raise international brigades of idealists to fight against the Monarchists, it's not exactly a promising rallying cry for non-Spaniards is it?
    I'd guess it depends on how important part the falangists play, how clear it is to everyone that Italy and Germany support and influence the nationalists and how total destruction of the working class they press for in the occupied zones. Even though the hard-line communist volunteers may not flock in such numbers they did IRL, all other kinds of left winger, democrats and anarchists may find it easier to come.
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  3. #3223
    Lt. General merrick's Avatar
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    Update! And fun and games in Spain where the gremlins have been working overtime. With all the quarrelling factions and shaky leadership, Spain is starting to look like China - the "sides" (particularly the Nationalist/Monarchists) are basically warlord factions with little coherent ideology or organisation. Under those circumstances, I wouldn't expect much in the way of coherent strategic planning - and I'd expect the elite units on each side (like the Republic's tanks) to be badly handicapped by Praetorian Guard syndrome.
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  4. #3224
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Pip View Post
    Kurt_Steiner - The power of "command = { type = sleepleader which = -1 }" has worked out for the best it seems, the random selection of Franco for death is meeting with approval.

    As you say Hedilla was one of Franco's big rivals so wouldn't be his picked successor, however with Franco dead the Germans needed a new man to back and Hedilla was apparently popular with the German ambassador and OTL got some help from notable Finnish Nazi-actor-spy-nutter Carl von Haartman. On the basis of that my guess was that he would become the new head of the German supported faction.
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  5. #3225
    Quote Originally Posted by DonnieBaseball View Post
    First Gandhi, now Franco--what next, Hitler run down by a drunken cabbie?
    That would be unwise. I refer you to the Hitler Time Travel Exemption Act.

  6. #3226
    Field Marshal Vann the Red's Avatar
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    Most interesting. On the face, the ARM division would seem like a decisive tool, but it must be used properly (see the British armored doctrine debate above complicated by the question of who, exactly, gets to decide how to employ them). What a mess this is, just like OTL.

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  7. #3227
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    Hmm, I just realized that with any luck the feedback from Spanish Civil War will reveal the drawbacks of crowded two-man turrets and lack of tank radios to French tank designers.

    Renault G1R, anyone?
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  8. #3228
    Fat Cat Public Servant Sir Humphrey's Avatar
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    Sir Humphrey - The tractors are coming, surely that is compensation enough?
    Your word is enough for me, ha ha!
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  9. #3229
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Pip View Post
    Duritz - You forget that the Republicans do not have an (effective) unified chain of command; coordinating between the actual government forces, the militias and the separatists was hard before, now with distrust over who killed who it's only going to get worse.

    Still the Monarchists are little better at the moment so neither side is going to manage a single focus. I will wait to see what the AI does and 'interpret' it accordingly.
    I'm under no illusions about how disjointed the commands will be. Just can't wait for the operational update prior to you moving onto tractors!

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  10. #3230
    Field Marshal Nathan Madien's Avatar

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    Spain continues to become a fun place to be...unless you are an important person.

    Any thoughts of killing off certain Americans who annoy you greatly?
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  11. #3231
    saw what you did there Davout's Avatar
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    Tapas and paella certainly seem to be the flavour of the month in HOI2 AAR's lately...

    And curse you for making the Spanish update so interesting that I need to know how it turns out in Iberia thus forestalling the barley and beets. My only comfort is that there will be tanks.

    Bravo on the random accidents, BTW. I can just imagine the scenes at headquarters.

    AIDE: Your plane is ready, my General.
    Gen. Not Appearing in this AAR: Plane, I thought I was taking the car.
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    Of course, since the wreckage was never found, Franco could always turn up on Lost.

    And I see you did not rise to my taunts about Clegg PM. I for one can't wait until Thursday.
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  12. #3232
    Lord of Slower-than-real-time El Pip's Avatar
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    Kasakka - Well the Italian influence is nothing, after being beaten in North Africa Il Duce has (temporarily) lost his taste for overseas adventures. Holding his country together through the post-war depression is his current priority. Equally German influence is a lot less obvious, no Condor Legion for starters.

    On the other hand I doubt Communists in the Monarchist zones will survive long, just as anyone religious in the Republican zone will probably be burnt alive inside their church. Both sides in the war were (and will be) guilty of countless crimes, without the clear ideological differences I can't see any non-Spaniard being able to pick an a 'good' side. Is fighting against people who murder trade unionist worth fighting along side people who murder nuns?

    merrick - Mostly on the money, both sides are defining themselves more by what they aren't/don't want than what they do want. Interesting thought on Praetorian Guard syndrome, it might help me explain a few things if the AI refuse to fight this season.

    Kurt_Steiner - What the random generator gives it also takes away.

    C&D - Indeed it would only make everything worse, it's just the law.

    Vann the Red - A mess is what I was trying for, it appears I've succeeded.

    On the tanks, that is the downside of the French tanks ; they come with French doctrine and tactics. They're not in themselves that bad, they were just designed for an almost completely defensive war under fairly specific circumstances, how well will they fit in Spain?

    Karelian - Depends on how the tanks are used, if they end up guarding Valencia then I doubt anyone will learn anything from them.

    Sir Humphrey - As it should be.

    Duritz - Then you will be waiting along time, I've already moved onto tractors. I do have a plan for this and I need to cover a few more developments before heading back to Spain. Sorry about that.

    Nathan Madien - I must confess having Wendell Willkie die a horrific and painful death is sorely tempting me, but I'm also toying with the idea of just not mentioning him, having him be just another businessman who went bankrupt during the Depression and then jumped of a building.

    Davout - I must rob you of your comfort, there will be no tanks and no Spain. There will however be tractors.

    As for Nick Clegg, once he loses the election I'm looking forward to his career in camp panto. He's got the Larry Grayson look all sorted. However he might have competition from Gordon Brown


    So in summary; No Spain but there will be tractors. Soon. Probably this weekend in fact.
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  13. #3233
    Quote Originally Posted by El Pip View Post
    DonnieBaseball - You missed out FDR and Al Smith also having bowed out. Truly the random generator in this game has embraced the Butterfly Effect and keeps picking important people to kill off.
    Hey, did you install CK into your HoI folder?
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  14. #3234
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    As for Nick Clegg, once he loses the election I'm looking forward to his career in camp panto.

    Heres a minister portrait you can add to your minister files. Its Nick Clegg in the classic "this is the size of my love truncheon" pose.
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  15. #3235
    Field Marshal Nathan Madien's Avatar

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    On a side note, I find the British Prime Minister debate to be very interesting.

    Quote Originally Posted by El Pip View Post
    Both sides in the war were (and will be) guilty of countless crimes, without the clear ideological differences I can't see any non-Spaniard being able to pick an a 'good' side. Is fighting against people who murder trade unionist worth fighting along side people who murder nuns?
    You're right, El Pip. I can't make up my mind which side is less deserving of my blood, sweat, and tears.

    You know, I will just stay here in America and work for...

    Quote Originally Posted by El Pip View Post
    Nathan Madien - I must confess having Wendell Willkie die a horrific and painful death is sorely tempting me, but I'm also toying with the idea of just not mentioning him, having him be just another businessman who went bankrupt during the Depression and then jumped of a building.
    Guess I have to find a new boss, then.
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  16. #3236
    British Unionist trekaddict's Avatar
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    I had the same temptation when it came to Duncan Sandys. I didn't even bother to fight it and had him electrocuting himself whilst trying to fix a radio.
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  17. #3237
    Lord of Slower-than-real-time El Pip's Avatar
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    KaiserMuffin - I don't even have CK, I'm guess it has a very vindictive random generator?

    Sir Humphrey - From the look on his face I think he's been sitting on the fence so much one of posts has gone where only proctologists and customs men dare to venture. Serves him right the spineless twerp.

    Nathan Madien - As it happens I've had a rethink and can find a space for the unspeakable W. However after I'm done with him his partisans may wish he had in fact just died in obscurity.

    trekaddict - Harsh but fair. Though I must confess that Sandys always seemed more a symptom than a cause, he only flourished because of the whole hateful post-war consensus of failure, misery and low ambitions. In a richer, more confident and less spineless Britain he would have spent his life in backbench obscurity.
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  18. #3238
    Fat Cat Public Servant Sir Humphrey's Avatar
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    Sandys was also a firm believer in Smith's Rhodesia. You can take that whatever way you like I suppose, but it did cause quite a bit of discussion at the time.
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  19. #3239
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Pip View Post
    Nathan Madien - As it happens I've had a rethink and can find a space for the unspeakable W. However after I'm done with him his partisans may wish he had in fact just died in obscurity.
    Does it involve Spain and air travel?!?

    If you squint and turn your head slightly a tractor looks a lot like a tank...

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  20. #3240
    Field Marshal Nathan Madien's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by El Pip View Post
    Nathan Madien - As it happens I've had a rethink and can find a space for the unspeakable W. However after I'm done with him his partisans may wish he had in fact just died in obscurity.
    Given how Faeelin portrayed him, I can only imagine how W will come through in El Pip's hands...and it isn't good.
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