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Thread: The Butterfly Effect: A British AAR

  1. #2981
    Quote Originally Posted by El Pip View Post
    Nathan Madien - Actually I'd be interested to know if the Falklands issue has become/was a stick to bash Obama with. My gut instinct is no as I really can't see the US relevance, but I'd interested to know what's actually happened if anything.

    And my catharsis is to work out my general annoyance at all things political about the US. Essentially I'm somewhat annoyed that after decades of using self determination and democracy as a weapon to destroy the British Empire the US dumped them completely for the Falklands, an issue where those factors are unequivocally on Britain's side.

    It's the shear gross hypocrisy of both US parties that offends me but obviously as the party of government the Democrats shoulder the bulk of the blame, not least for Hilary Clinton's latest retarded comments about mediation. What the hell is there to mediate if you believe in self determination? And if you don't give a stuff about what the people want and instead work off historic claims shouldn't the US hand New Mexico back to Mexico, Alaska to the Russians and basically reduce itself to the 13 colonies before demanding to rejoin the British Empire?

    [
    As an American, I was merely relieved to be rid of the old administration. I seem to recall President Reagan backing Britain fully in the Falklands Campaign and that is how it should be. The FALKLANDS (Not Malvinas ) belong to Britain and the only thing I think the US ought to mediate is Argentina's recognition of this... Argentine leaders like to dangle the Falklands out as a distraction whenever they screw up at home and playing into this does not help. Also the Argentinians must realize they have a limited window before the current RN gets its new carriers. Once the Queen Elizabeth is in service she'll make any military move by Argentina a futile gesture.



    (P.S. in remodding my own AAR, Argentina and Britain will have ample opportunity to redress the issue properly... I'm betting heavily on the Royal Navy to finish whatever the Argentines start.)
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  2. #2982
    British Unionist trekaddict's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KiMaSa View Post


    You're doing this wrong.

    This is what the RN will end up with by 2020:


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  3. #2983
    Quote Originally Posted by trekaddict View Post
    You're doing this wrong.

    This is what the RN will end up with by 2020:


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    I pray not...
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  4. #2984
    British Unionist trekaddict's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KiMaSa View Post
    I pray not...
    So do I.
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  5. #2985
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    We're halfway there now, chaps. The problem with Uncle Gordon and his friends is that they are institutionally retarded when it comes to maritime power:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...l-parties.html

    Now ok, it's a bit of a silly story (and in the "Daily Outrage" of all papers) but it shows a real lack of understanding. The RN do a good show of official receptions. I've been to a few and they build goodwill (and, sadly, a killer hangover) and a form of military power that isn't a) lad with rifle/tank/APC, b) airborne. Another part of our maritime tradition over.

    And do not get me started on the Falklands. Hilary Clinton should fly over here and beg forgiveness - actually no, go annoy someone else for a change. She's turning out to be Kirkpatrick (who was an arse over the '82 crisis) Mark 2.

    EDIT - And no, I am not Anti-American, but I am deeply annoyed over the State Department's handling of Ms Kircher's antics.
    Last edited by Le Jones; 15-03-2010 at 19:18.
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  6. #2986
    Quote Originally Posted by Le Jones View Post
    We're halfway there now, chaps. The problem with Uncle Gordon and his friends is that they are institutionally retarded when it comes to maritime power:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...l-parties.html

    Now ok, it's a bit of a silly story (and in the "Daily Outrage" of all papers) but it shows a real lack of understanding. The RN do a good show of official receptions. I've been to a few and they build goodwill (and, sadly, a killer hangover) and a form of military power that isn't a) lad with rifle/tank/APC, b) airborne. Another part of our maritime tradition over.

    And do not get me started on the Falklands. Hilary Clinton should fly over here and beg forgiveness - actually no, go annoy someone else for a change. She's turning out to be Kirkpatrick (who was an arse over the '82 crisis) Mark 2.

    EDIT - And no, I am not Anti-American, but I deeply annoyed over the State Department's handling of Ms Kircher's antics.
    I'm annoyed and I get to vote on it... Britain HAS infact been our best and most steadfast ally for sixty years and this is NOT how you treat your best friend.
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  7. #2987
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    Not only did you drag the conversation back four pages but you also stole the top post on the new page when we're expecting an update... a mortal sin if ever there was one.

    So can we get back to tanks please... oh, and voting for Republican Spain.

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  8. #2988
    Quote Originally Posted by Duritz View Post
    Not only did you drag the conversation back four pages but you also stole the top post on the new page when we're expecting an update... a mortal sin if ever there was one.

    So can we get back to tanks please... oh, and voting for Republican Spain.

    Dury.
    By all means.
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  9. #2989
    Field Marshal Nathan Madien's Avatar

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    I enjoyed the tank update, El Pip.

    I vote for a President update. I am in need of an Landon fix...but I do recognize I may have to hold on for a while longer while we sort through Spain.

    Quote Originally Posted by trekaddict View Post

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  10. #2990
    saw what you did there Davout's Avatar
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    +1 for tractors, just to push things along to the update on post #3,000.
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  11. #2991
    Lord of Slower-than-real-time El Pip's Avatar
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    trekaddict - It's not a wrong RAC, more a work in progress. Admittedly Hobart doesn't realise it's a work in progress, but after a couple of large exercises (perhaps including some in the new Libyan training ground ) he soon will.

    Carlstadt Boy - Nothing special, the Germans are perhaps a little light on Panzers (all those new BCs are eating up steel and IC after all) but nothing serious. The Japanese still believe the warrior spirit will conqueror all and as such is using the same Vickers Medium knock-offs for it's main tank with a smattering of tankettes for show. Honestly a not too shabby force in comparison at the moment, however there are no clever plans (or indeed any plans) to advance this.

    Ciryandor - Is this a new class of porn? Tractor-porn? Has it come to this?

    Sir Humphrey - It is hard to under-estimate how important these tractors will be, as the update will make clear when it comes, which may well be sooner than you think.

    DonnieBaseball - There wasn't enough data and on the theoretical side men like Fuller (before he went mystic-fascist nuts) were pushing for very tank heavy forces. The weaknesses of armour just weren't appreciated, it was thought tanks would only need infantry support when stopped for re-arming and re-fuelling.

    And I think you are wise to be wary of this tractor challenge, it's certainly surprised me.

    Duritz - Glad you liked it, good things do come to those who wait.

    Sir Humphrey - Yes there was theoretical work and it mostly said "More tanks!"

    Kurt_Steiner - I can promise more tanks certainly, but I go no further. I dread to think what you call a 'real tank'!

    KaiserMuffin - Not a chance on the MBT it's just too early. Even Ze Germanz at the time had the Pz III and Pz IV with very different roles. It's at least 5 years, more like 10, till everything comes together for a 'proper' MBT.

    Karelian - Hadn't occurred to me but yes the French model is fairly close. Though on the plus side at least British tanks all have radios and will go on exercises, so that's two massive advantages for Britain before you even factor in natural coolness and the benefits of a proper diet.

    And yes Hobart will be opened to a lot more 'specialised' variants than others, which is both good and bad. I suppose the real good point is he will have plenty of spare hulls to modify!

    Incognitia - That was the main problem at the tactical level as well, too many cruiser tanks (supposed to fight enemy tanks and so with no HE) were charged at AT-guns. Fortunately that problem has already cropped up in North Africa so at least they're aware of the problem, which always helped.

    C&D - Still fighting the brave fight for the US? I admire you tenacity.

    ColonelIronboot - Then you will be in good company round here, though the boat and plane fans may disagree on which is actually the most popular tech porn.

    Hell it looks like the tractor-porn club may even make a challenge for that title as well!

    merrick - Glad you noticed the confusion for it was deliberate, this is the first groping towards large scale armoured units in the British Army and I figured they had to bugger it up; chancing onto the correct formation first time out would be too lucky. The big tension is going to come when someone asks "What's the difference between Deep Operations by an Armoured Division breaking through and raiding the enemy's rear and a Cavalry Division chasing down broken units?" At present the answer is 'Ummm.'

    On the APC front the plan is Lloyd Carriers to begin with then probably something like a Kangaroo (or a similar conversion of an obsolete tank) in a few years when the infantry start asking for some actual armour to go with their mobility. But the Lloyd should be 'good enough' for a start, tracks should give decent off-road ability and it could do 30mph on road so it's fast enough.

    For manuals I think the big delay while the Army gets the central ideas sorted works in the RAC's favour. It will essentially means nothing is going to get formalised till early 1938 which gives time for plenty of exercises and probably even enough time the tanks in the next update to make their mark.

    Duritz - I have retained the element of surprise about the tanks? Excellent news!

    I really don't see why a British manual shouldn't be as good as something written by that thieving pikey Guderian. Everyone knows a knock-off is never as good as the original.

    More seriously there are now masses of light tanks just screaming to be used for tactical development and (crucially) money to exercise with and a senior officer interested in development. All Hobo needs is time.

    Sir Humphrey - Long term it probably will be a tank-conversion for the first 'proper' (i.e. armoured) APC, short term an OTL Lloyd Carrier could carry an 8 man section plus crew so is the perfect tactical size.

    Now of course long term you'll need bigger APCs (not only to carry more sections but to allow the sections to grow to add a Bren-equivalent to each unit) but in the short term it'll do as a damned good start.

    And definitely not the L4E1, no more of those damned MG only very light tanks that could be taken out with a short burst from a Vickers!

    Davout - Merrick has indeed spotted the many flaws with Hobo's first plan. We must therefore be thankful that it is his first plan and he will have a chance to revise it.

    TheExecuter - Once the tanks are (temporarily) done we shall see another large flock of butterflies appear over Europe when we go to Spain (election result allowing), a different SCW has to change military thinking but I confess to not having fully worked out how!

    KiMaSa - Excellent news you are making an AAR return and with a South Atlantic naval dust up as a bonus, they're always epic if only for the distances involved.

    trekaddict/trekaddict - Speaking personally I found the flag more offensive than the ship, but that may just be me.

    Le Jones - Now that is a really pointless cost cutting move, but then that's the nature of Labour 'cuts', it's never the paper pushers who go but always the useful and the traditional. Still not long now hopefully. :fingers crossed:

    KiMaSa - I just wonder how the State Department would have reacted if we hadn't been an ally for sixty years.

    Duritz - Your resisting the lure of the tractors? Full marks for your willpower, many of the men of tanks have given in to the call of Ferguson!

    Nathan Madien - Alas it is both Spain and Tractors by the looks of things, Landon is on course to lose out to hot ploughing action.....

    Davout - A fine plea for sanity. And another vital tractor vote.

    Votes
    ---
    Spain - 23
    US - 9
    Tractors - 13

    Durry's outstanding spa... voting keeps Spain well in front while the wholesale defection of the men of tanks to the tractor cause means the US falls further behind, though still within striking range.

    As the tank update has now been started (don't get your hopes up too much, but it is at least under way) voting will soon(ish) be closing.
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  12. #2992
    Fat Cat Public Servant Sir Humphrey's Avatar
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    +1 Tractors and agriculture. Britain becomes the food basket (through tractors and manipulations of new seed types) of Europe and thus in the process defeats her continental enemies! Ha ha!
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  13. #2993
    Quote Originally Posted by El Pip View Post
    C&D - Still fighting the brave fight for the US? I admire you tenacity.
    Stubborness can be a good substitute for a grasp of reality. Some of the greatest men in history where stubborn blockheads!

    ...Of course, some of the greatest men also get killed by a stingray. Ouch. Now how do I segueway myself out of here?

    Oh hey, it's another vote for the US presidency!

  14. #2994
    VC, MC and bar Duritz's Avatar
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    "Vote early, vote often"... unofficial motto of the ALP!

    That said, I'm not unsympathetic to the promotion of tractors however I have a mission and that mission is a Republican Spain free from Franco, Falangists and Fascists. I vote accordingly and maitain party discipline.

    I completely forgot the swarth of useless light tanks that Hobo can use for training/exercises. I look forward to hearing about 65% breakdown rates in the first 24 hours of the Libya Exercises (codenamed Compass, Crusader or Battleaxe?!?) and the subsequant shake up of support and field servicing...

    I'd never suggest ze German manuals would be better, of course the War Office would use better grammar, correct punctuation, and ensure the typeset and paper quality was of the finest standard... it's just that the theory in them would be worse than that of the thieving pikey Guderian!

    Onwards to post #3000!

    Dury.

    P.S.
    Quote Originally Posted by C&D View Post
    ...Of course, some of the greatest men also get killed by a stingray. Ouch.
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  15. #2995
    Lt. General TheExecuter's Avatar
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    Get to the butterflies!

    Another vote for US politics...
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  16. #2996
    saw what you did there Davout's Avatar
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    Dury, tractors are the DLP of the Tank Party. +1 for tractor time.

    Also, only 3 more posts before tank porn. YAY!!!
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  17. #2997
    Agriculture +1. But you have to include dominions and colonies there, I want to learn something new.

  18. #2998
    not a beta for HoI3 Moderator Derek Pullem's Avatar
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    I vote for American supplied tractors being used as improvised AFVs in Spain

    +1 +1 +1

    You know when they say truth is stranger than fiction.......

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    Last edited by Derek Pullem; 17-03-2010 at 11:23.
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  19. #2999
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Pip View Post
    Kurt_Steiner - I can promise more tanks certainly, but I go no further. I dread to think what you call a 'real tank'!
    Certainly, a tank is something different from the Vickers or the Cruisers (with the exception of the A34 and the A41) monstruosities .
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  20. #3000
    British Unionist trekaddict's Avatar
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    I merely found the picture posted somewhere else. I myself would of course never deface the White Ensign like that!
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