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The cat is out of the bag now, and it all comes down to drawing conclusions and overcoming the strong internal resistance for change.

Training standards is an obvious place to start the reforms since trying to alter the regimental system itself would most likely be too ambitious. And once tactics are reviewed, it is only logical to start considering the issue of doctrine.
 
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Didn't Churchill reach the same conclusions on Professionalism and Administration is the book he wrote on the Sudanese war, which was published before the Boer War if I recall correctly?

As to communications compared to our timeline, I recall a passage in Antony Beevor's D-Day, where he described the supporting infantry having to use a telephone at the back of British tanks to speak to the tank commander, and 1 particular commander thinking it terribly funny to answer as "Luton exchange, what number please" as the machine gun rounds were zipping around the side of the tank.

But I digress. Back to the updates, please.
 
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Sounds like Chetwode's chosen to swing away at some deeply entrenched pillars. Not that they are the wrong ones, just hard nuts to crack. Good luck with getting a combined arms doctrine with clear guidance on local command issues while dismantling the regimental structure.

Vann
 
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As to communications compared to our timeline, I recall a passage in Antony Beevor's D-Day, where he described the supporting infantry having to use a telephone at the back of British tanks to speak to the tank commander, and 1 particular commander thinking it terribly funny to answer as "Luton exchange, what number please" as the machine gun rounds were zipping around the side of the tank.

But I digress. Back to the updates, please.
Thats actually quite smart to think to put a phone on the back of a tank.
 
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I recall a passage in Antony Beevor's D-Day, where he described the supporting infantry having to use a telephone at the back of British tanks to speak to the tank commander, and 1 particular commander thinking it terribly funny to answer as "Luton exchange, what number please" as the machine gun rounds were zipping around the side of the tank.

Just personally, I find that quite funny too... :D

I've seen footage of the Pacific campaign with Marines on the phone behind flame thrower Shermans.

Make sure it gets tungsten rounds and it could be quite potent.

Tungsten rounds eh? Being the non hole digger of the group I have to ask... had they discovered tunsten back then?!? :( I'm sure Pippy can rattle off 3000 words on the subject by week's end...

Duritz.
 
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If I recall correctly, the French were working on tungsten sabot shells in the late 1930's. I believe the Germans had tungsten core shots for their 75mm guns by about 1942/43 and the British had shots for the 6 pndr and 17 pndr by about 1943/44.

So a bit too late for the story so far. Given the current pace of the story progression, we should reach 1943 by about 2034.
 
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So did these problems remain in reality by the time of 1940? Britain got beaten pretty badly defending the western front compared to 1914 where they forced the German advance into a grinding halt. So it would seem the army didn't keep up with the times, becoming complacent by the victory and the traditional attitude that a stiff upperlip and winning smile from the officers would keep the jerries from getting too balsy. A pretty big contrast with the heroics of the RAF or the tank corps in Africa and the 1944 continental front who could pride themselves on having kept up with the times better.
 
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I have the feeling that in many democratic Nations the Army is always the last to take advantage of the changed times, be it by ignorance or by being unable to do so for whatever reason.
 
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Actually having investigated it (looking at wiki) it says there was a tungsten round developed for, and used for the Boys AT rifle. And since Malaya has quite a lot of the stuff (or is it Burma?), then it could be a potent weapon, maybe.
 
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Sir Humphrey - It would indeed be embarrassing, however this is the 1930s so the press is much more deferential and actually knows what the words 'National Interest' mean. Were it to leak I would expect the editor to have a chat with the chaps down the club and agree not to run the parts that would diminish Britain's standing in the world and cause consternation in the Empire.
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trekaddict - While I'm still sorting the exact details, particularly with the Cavalry/Tank blokes, I hope it's a cunning plan.

While there should be a plan for conscription I'm not sure there will be, no-one is planning for a general European war or a vast British Army to fight in one. I think we all know that's probably a mistake. ;)

DonnieBaseball - The Cavalry will be the problem, I came across a quote from the time something along the lines of "Asking the Cavalry to give up their horses for trucks is like asking a great musician to give up the violin and devote himself to the gramophone."

There's so many things wrong with that I don't know where to start, but I think it illustrates the scale of the problem.

Carlstadt Boy - It is going to happen, I'll include a screenshot of the even in the next update how's that?

trekaddict - Staying with the British one purely on the basis of the name 'Operational Stages' sounds like the kind of thing the IGS would do. Of course as it is generally thought to be the worst doctrine in the game (long term anyway) I will be supplementing it with a few events.

Incognitia - Indeed, there's only so much you can do to change an Army's culture over the short term (short of the shock of utter defeat or something similar).

Derek Pullem - You just reminded me of the Yes Minister episode where the Army fiercely fight against extra funding as it will mean they have to adopt conscription. :)

trekaddict - OTL solution was the General Service Corps, it pooled all the specialists and any surplus manpower and redistributed it as needed. It was also involved in the reallocation and retraining jobs (for instance when the manpower crunch really hit late war and several AA units became artillery units). So you could just take that organisation and beef it up a bit, make it the central point for all conscripts.

However that is not my solution, I have something else in mind.

Kasakka - Very true. It took till spring '39 for even a limited form of conscription to be introduced in Britain, even then it took so long to implement it was overtaken by the start of the war.

Nathan Madien - Sadly entirely true, the Cavalry really didn't want to learn how to use their tanks and no-one forced them. Things did get a bit better in the late 30s after they accepted mechanisation was irrevocable, but it was far too late by then.

trekaddict - Discussing it can hurt if anyone finds out! :eek:

merrick - I think Chetwode must have come to believe the old truth 'No good deed goes unpunished'. His reward for fixing the mess of the Indian Army is to be given the job of fixing the over-arching mess of the whole Army.

I hadn't thought of the Fisher parallel but it's not a bad one, the only problem is that Chetwode is only writing a report, it's going to be Deverell who implements it. He's not a bad officer, but he's no Fisher. Still the CIGS has no term of office so could be replaced if necessary.....

Duritz - Wash your mouth out! That Boys Rifle is the cutting edge of anti-tank weaponry design, a brand new prototype undergoing field tests. Don't you know the anti-tank rifle is being developed by all the major powers, if Britain doesn't get one we'll be left behind! ( :D )

Seriously it's not that bad a weapon, for the 1930s. It just really should have been replaced for frontline units by 1941 (against Pz II/III and anything Italian it was OK). Admittedly that sort of comment applies to a great many weapons on both sides so it's not exactly insightful.

Sir Humphrey - I wouldn't be so sure, didn't it get a tungsten round in OTL?

Karelian - The question is do you try for the big bang all at once approach or the step by step. The former is the harder fight but the latter risks the reforms stopping half way through due to a change in priority or personnel.

Davout - Professionalism has been a perennial problem for the British Army, colonial policing does not encourage studious thinking. The Admin problem really depends on the staff involved, good staff can make it work but average/bad staff really struggle.

Interesting point on Churchill's book, somewhat depressingly there were major post-Boer War reforms (Haldane Reforms) which aimed to fix most of the problems Chetwode has identified. Show up quite how bad things were back in the 1880s that the 1930s problems were still an improvement. :eek:

Vann the Red - He also plans to promote world peace and work with children and animals.
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KaiserMuffin - Britain's been struggling for decades with the regimental structure. For all it's many faults it is perfect for colonial policing, sending small detachments of great distances for long periods. It's also outstanding for morale and was (probably) the main reason the British Army didn't mutiny in WW1 while certain garlic munchers did. You don't muck around with such a system lightly.

Duritz - No need for a few thousands words from me it's already been done;
The Indescribably Exciting Tungsten Story

Davout - That's harsh! I'm predicting reaching 1943 somewhere around 2028 on my current rate of progress! :D

C&D - The RFC/RNAS got badly thrashed a few times in WW1 when new German aircraft left them badly outclassed. Mind you they also inflicted more than their fair share in exchange when the pendulum swung back towards them. This left the RAF with a good understanding that technology moves quickly and so do tactics, not lessons they forgot.

The Army meanwhile while occasionally surprised (Gas, Stormtroopers) and sometimes innovative (creeping barrage, tanks) never experienced a fundamental change. It's important to remember many of the battles at the end of WW1 were fairly standard infantry and artillery battles, merely refined versions of 1915/16/17 battles. There was no massive change to shake them out of their complacency nor the sting of defeat to prompt self examination.

trekaddict - Is is just a matter of scale? An air force or navy has relatively few people while an army is at least an order of magnitude larger, sometimes two orders larger.

To change an airforce doctrine you need only train a few pilots and maybe controllers and radio men, no-one else can affect doctrine. Conversely if you want to implement change in the army you have to train/equip almost everyone. In fact given the 'Everyone is a solder' attitude most forces have it is everyone. So not only is the army larger but they all have to change. That's big inertia.

Nathan Madien/Ciryandor - Vibrating tank phones? Never heard of that one and it sounds quite alarming. :eek:
 
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KaiserMuffin - It's also outstanding for morale and was (probably) the main reason the British Army didn't mutiny in WW1 while certain garlic munchers did. You don't muck around with such a system lightly.

Those events were greatly exagerated. There's a good book on the French Army in WWI called 'Fields of Glory' I think. Very informative and written by a Pom. Let's just say it's a lot mare believable than say, Haig's diaries...
or the Official British History (which were the same thing really.)

Duritz - No need for a few thousands words from me it's already been done;
The Indescribably Exciting Tungsten Story

Thus proving you should be careful what you wish for... ;)

Now, seems though you saved yourself 3000 words on Tungsten I expect to see more tank porn related updatery immediately.

Cheers,
Dury.
 
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General Service Corps. Hmmmmm. But I think I will rather wait and see. Maybe your idea lends itself more to my stealing it.
 
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Sir Humphrey - AT rifles all hit the same problem, as they're purely kinetic weapons there's a limit to how much punch they can have. A round can only go so fast and be so big. True AT capability against thick armour needs cunning use of explosives, which in turn means a warhead bigger than a rifle can realistically mount.

Duritz - If your going to start bringing facts into this I will be most upset. What is life without the chance to slur the French?

trekaddict - Fair enough. :)
 
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So does that mean we begin to turn towards the idea of a PIAT (spring based) or more along the lines of a rocket projectile launched from a tube? Or maybe just ditch it altogether and leave anti-tank capabilities to dedicated anti--tank guns (which I believe was much along the lines of French thinking at the time and resulted in French infantry lacking even ineffectual anti-tank capabilities) or bombs such as the Gammon, Thermos, Hawkins or Sticky type grenades.

Actually, maybe the development of the No.68 AT Grenade which seemed some possibilities (if the design is slightly revised) could provide some real punch (which could lead to something like an early version of the ENERGA).
 
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Offtopis: I have a question, and maybe this thread is the best for getting the answer. Recently I tried to get some books of english authors, but as I live in Croatia my quest was proven futile. The books I am looking for are Russell Grenfell: Main Fleet To Singapore, Stephen Roskill: Naval Policy Between Wars, B.B Schofield: British Sea Power and Paul Kennedy: Rise And Fall Of British Naval Mastery.

If anyone knows some site where those can be freely read or downloaded, or has it in ebook format, please help. Ofcourse, any similar book would interest me.
 
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AT rifles all hit the same problem, as they're purely kinetic weapons there's a limit to how much punch they can have. A round can only go so fast and be so big. True AT capability against thick armour needs cunning use of explosives, which in turn means a warhead bigger than a rifle can realistically mount.

Unless they are called Vera.

So are we going to get some tank porn soon because I'm getting kind of twitchy.
 
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Duritz - No need for a few thousands words from me it's already been done;
The Indescribably Exciting Tungsten Story

Funny point, despite the name being swedish in origin, it's not actually called tungsten in swedish... (the name being volfram for the element or scheelit for the ore)
 
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