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The Butterfly Effect: A British AAR

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Given your Francophile tendencies, I can only conclude that the great idea is that England decided that the Hundred Years War was a complete cock up and that maybe Napoleon was right after all so they decide to chuck it in and join with France in an early version of the EU. And in a Cameronesque coup, Britain decides that it is cheaper if they just rely on the French Navy and scrap all existing carriers and battleships. Yes?

Thanks for the update btw. I can just imagine the H35's crawling inexorably towards the dastardly Monarchists. The fine details were also great although it is amazing how long the French persisted with no hatch in the cupola. Tank design is evolutionary, as in nature, so you expect some blind alleys and misconceptions as designs are put to the test over time and there is no greater test than battle. However, you would think the first officer who went to get into the saddle would have arced up about the awkwardness of entering through the body.

In pursuit of my perfectly natural desire to find more tank porn, I mean, information on French inter-war armour, I found this article which seemd very Pippian in its forthright opinions and criticism with the benefit of hindsight. I hope it gives you some inspiration for future updates.
 
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Fine update El Pip - I giggled at the thought of a saddle inside the H35, and gasped in horror at the lack of an upper-turret hatch. Its worth bearing in mind that the first tank-vs-tank and tank-vs-dedicated anti-tank encounters post the Great War are likely to reveal in short order the simple fact that nobody has yet fielded a good working tank. At least not in Spain.

As for the A6M Zero being not particularly good, I'd say it depends who you ask. Get a couple of its pilots drunk on sake and in a conspiratorial mood, and they might allow that the lack of armour, self-sealing tanks, and low Tactical Mach number were all definite drawbacks. Interview the rare survivors of combat with it from the rest of the world's air forces, however, and you would hear something else again! ;)
 
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To clarify, that's not a quote of Hobart, but rather my summation of reality (from a doctrinist's perspective).

Vann
 
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Duritz - Hmm, and just were is France going to find the money to increase the defence budget I ask?

Plus of course the elephant in the room for France is the lack of the OTL nationalisations. Yes they were horribly disruptive and really should have been better managed, but things were terrible beforehand. As the French government would not let anyone fail no matter how bad a company was they would get a contract for something, and then bugger that up as well.

It was the worst of both worlds and needed to be fixed one way (nationalisation) or the other (letting the inept go bankrupt).

Davout - See above for the hatchless cupola. To keep APX in business (and to save money) most early/mid 1930s French tanks were lumbered with an APX turret despite the designers there refusing to fit a hatch. I doubt French tank designers would have chosen an APX turret give the choice, they just didn't get the choice.

A most interesting article and I like the term Pippian. :D

Vann the Red - Not Hobbos words? It didn't sound like him, I just hoped it was him being very frustrated. Still, it is a very nice phrase in any event. :)
 
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El Pip said:
Duritz - Hmm, and just were is France going to find the money to increase the defence budget I ask?
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You make a good point, I'm just hoping (wishing, praying, god damn it) that the Spanish intervention can kick start a greater French build up... and a couple of decent tanks.

Dury.
 
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El Pip said:
Chapter XI: Of War and Peace.​

Despite Churchill, John Simon, Austen Chamberlain and the other high profile members of the government focusing on the deteriorating international situation the work of government had to go on. The dominant domestic issues were the great depression and re-armament, a combination which seemed perfect. The depression had hit the industrial north of the country the hardest and it would be those same heavy industries that would be needed for re-armament.

Sadly such thinking was a oversimplification and missed several large problems. British Industry was not prepared or equiped for re-armament and would take several months to gear up to full production, until when employment levels would not rise. There was also the problem of the many workers not employed in armament related industries and how to help them. Finally there was cost, re-armament was expensive and the extra tax burden could damage the slight recovery which had begun in 1934.

The man tasked with overcoming these problems, Lord Beaverbrook at the Ministry of Production and Development, approached the problem by treating the British economy as just a very large company. To this end he determined what was need was some new ideas, as the old plans had not done much to lift the depression.

keynes7on.jpg
John Maynard Kenyes, Baron of Tilton and one of the most influential economists to ever live.​

Beaverbrooks search for the right man lead him to John Keynes, in particular his "General Theory of Employment, Interest and Money". Baron Keynes was a firm liberal, when he had been enobled he had chosen to sit on the Liberal benches in the House of Lords and was on good terms with leading National Liberals in government. Using these connections, and the force of his own personality, Beaverbrook was able to convince Keynes to work with his department on a new economic policy for the country.

The eventual plan called for a gradual build in the pace of re-armament and a series of large, but short term, public works. The idea was for the latter to provide employment and bridge the gap until the former was up to full speed. This new more interventionist approach would come to be called Keynesian economics and would be the foundation of British economic policy for decades to come.

While these policies would take considerable time to have tangible benefits, the effect on the public was far faster. As the plans for the constructions were published and people saw the surveyors out on site marking out foundations it was obvious that this plan would happen and that there would be jobs.

kgv1je.jpg
King George V, narrowly survived the night at Sandringham.​

The public mood was also lifted by the news that the King had survived a series of bronchitis attacks and was being nursed back to health by his beloved wife, Queen Mary. King George's personal doctor is said to have been astonished that he made it through such severe attacks, attributing it to the King's sense of duty and his unwillingness to 'abandon' the Empire during a crisis.


Up Next: Il Duce decides if Italy will back down or act over Abyssinia and the Suez Canal.
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why did you copy the name of a movie instead of creating your name?
 
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Because War and Peace is one of the if not the biggest classic of Russian literature and not a movie?
 
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Duritz - What the French needed was a better tank doctrine. That and more radios and less saddles. ;)

But if you were a French politician and had just put that upstart Hitler in his place over the Rhineland would you see the need for a big political build up?

forgorin - Why not? That and treks post.

trekaddict - Very true, sad that some people only know works from their adaptions. Personally I pity the people who only know War and Peace the Opera! :eek:
 
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trekaddict said:
Because War and Peace is one of the if not the biggest classic of Russian literature and not a movie?
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That and because "The Simpsons" didn't catch the mood of the chapter, methinks.

PS: Chapter XI... A hundred chapters ago, almost. Not bad.
 
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El Pip said:
trekaddict - Very true, sad that some people only know works from their adaptions. Personally I pity the people who only know War and Peace the Opera! :eek:
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Admittedly never having read the book (watched the mini-series once), this did compell me to re-read this AAR. :D
 
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Kurt_Steiner - To be fair it has taken me over five years to do not quite a hundred chapters.

On the other hand that is one and a half chapters a month on average, one every two and a bit weeks. Put like that it sounds far more impressive. ;)

trekaddict - And I hope you enjoyed those 180,00+ words the second time through as much as the first. :)
 
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El Pip said:
Duritz - What the French needed was a better tank doctrine. That and more radios and less saddles. ;)

But if you were a French politician and had just put that upstart Hitler in his place over the Rhineland would you see the need for a big political build up?
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Granted, but if you were a French politician who had made political gain out of putting that upstart Hitler in his place, and then looked like losing face to a bunch of Spanish Monarchists you'd try and protect your political investment. You don't want to get involved but you also can't afford to have your 'side' lose, otherwise Hitler is resurgent and your nationalistic credentials are nought!

Sure you wouldn't want to waste money on such an insignificant thing as foreign intervention in Spain but these things happen slowly; supplies, advisors, some more rifles, a shipment of petrol, a dozen tanks, another squadron of planes, ... and next thing you know the French have a million men south of the Ebro! :p

I believe you said it yourself, that countries will slowly get sucked in to this conflict... when pride is at stake you vote for the money to be spent and work out how to pay for it later... or blame the President!

I'm just hoping and praying the French get some decent tanks (plus radios and tactics as you rightly pointed out) from the whole experience... but I'm advocating the saddles remain for their aesthetic value. ;)

Dury.
 
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Dr. Gonzo said:
I agree with Dury, a France that has smacked down Hitler will be a more confident one keen to flex yet more geopolitical muscle, much as Britain has since the Italian conflict.
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Thanks for the support Comrade! ;)

Dury.
 
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forgorin said:
why did you copy the name of a movie instead of creating your name?
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To be honest, I don't even remember that update. :wacko:

Man, it feels like eons ago.
 
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Duritz - I think that's rather the point I was (badly) trying to make. France will get sucked into Spain and any modernisation of the armed forces will occur as a by-product of that. Even then that will require French equipped forces to get badly beaten while using French tactics, anything else will probably be blamed on the locals 'doing it wrong'.

As I see it in France's strategic position there is no obvious need to modernise and re-equip the French armed forces as an aim in itself. Designs, tactics, everything else will be influenced by French officers coming back from Spain, whether they learn the 'right' lessons is a different issue, but I don't think in a tight economy the French cabinet will see anything that makes it embark on a costly (financially and politically) reform programme.

Dr. Gonzo - That's how I see it. I just think the French will draw the conclusion that their current armed forces provide them with enough muscle to do that without needing fundamental reform or re-equipping.

Nathan Madien - Time flies when your reading the AAR with the worst game time:real time ratio of anything on the board. ;)
 
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El Pip said:
Duritz - I think that's rather the point I was (badly) trying to make.
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I see no problem with us continuing to argue, even if we are in agreement! :D

I agree with your logic but surely that means my S38 (or if you'd prefer S35B) idea is more, rather than less likely. Put aside tactical theory for a moment and think like a cynical French procurement officer... getting new toys, erm I mean weapons, out of those civilians in suits is the main aim.

Without planning and following feedback from their officers in Spain the French are likely to react and put through minor improvements to existing "tried and tested" designs. Sure the H35 isn't as good as the S35 but we can still pick up some points about engine maintenence or the benefit of radios.

Damn this idea of a new design though, we have the theory generally correct and our tanks are unstopable so all we have to do is tweak what we have. After all, improving existing designs is cheaper. Then they'll build a couple of new machines to the modified design, get a bit more money, build a couple more and so on and so forth until they have lots of shiny new tanks. And lets face it, an S35 with a radio is a match one on one for any early war Panzer you can name.

And now that we've got them... well, now we can think about how we should actually use them!

Dury
 
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Have to agree with Pippy on the likelihood of the Spanish experience leading to improved French equipment. It's validating the equipment in the eyes of the beholder. I will agree with Dury, however, that it could lead to small (i.e., less expensive) tweaks to that equipment. For example, the aforementioned radios and maintenance cycles. My sincere hope, however, is that the use of the equipment in a practical environment will lead to doctrinal advances which is where the French military is sorely lacking at the moment.

Hey, I said hope...

Vann
 
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