Path to Enlightenment: Tibet WC VIP 0.4b

[Falconhurst]

I think it's time for the ultimate challenge of Victoria

WC with Hawaii.

Good luck with that one. Are you volunteering?

Considering that an uncivilized nation can only declared war on its neighbors, and that an island nation is considered to have no neighbors, that would be a tall order indeed.

When I tested out Japan, I couldn't even figure out how to DOW Korea -- right across the strait.

[Falconhurst]

I think it's time for the ultimate challenge of Victoria

WC with Hawaii.

Hawaii is absolutely the bottom of the bottomless pits.

One province. Only 103,000 people, or about 25,000 POPs -- one of the lowest POPs of any nation in the world. Starting with even a civilized nation that small is tough.

Uncivilized. No techs. No chance of techs. With no techs and no other provinces, there is nothing to trade to anyone for anything.

No borders with anyone, so no possibility to declare war on anyone as an uncivilized nation. That will make WC ... um... challenging.

A disastrously bad economy. The only source of income is a fishery with a rating of 1.5 -- far less than the 5.0 fisheries in more fertile parts of the world. And fish is worth very little as it is.

Daily income runs at about 0.3-0.4/day, with all expenses minimized, even with full tariffs after the initial pop reserves run down.

What a disaster. If anyone thinks there is a more pathetic nation anywhere on earth (in Victoria terms), speak now or forever hold your peace.

Okay, you're on. WC with Hawaii, no holds barred. The only stipulation is that I will pick my own party ideology. And you'll have to lock me in a box, chain my feet together, and throw me into the ocean if you think that Hawaii won't succeed.

[lifeless]

i would say good luck but after seeing what you did with tibet...

[TheFlemishDuck]

Hawaii is absolutely the bottom of the bottomless pits.

One province. Only 103,000 people, or about 25,000 POPs -- one of the lowest POPs of any nation in the world. Starting with even a civilized nation that small is tough.

Uncivilized. No techs. No chance of techs. With no techs and no other provinces, there is nothing to trade to anyone for anything.

No borders with anyone, so no possibility to declare war on anyone as an uncivilized nation. That will make WC ... um... challenging.

A disastrously bad economy. The only source of income is a fishery with a rating of 1.5 -- far less than the 5.0 fisheries in more fertile parts of the world. And fish is worth very little as it is.

Daily income runs at about 0.3-0.4/day, with all expenses minimized, even with full tariffs after the initial pop reserves run down.

What a disaster. If anyone thinks there is a more pathetic nation anywhere on earth (in Victoria terms), speak now or forever hold your peace.

Okay, you're on. WC with Hawaii, no holds barred. The only stipulation is that I will pick my own party ideology. And you'll have to lock me in a box, chain my feet together, and throw me into the ocean if you think that Hawaii won't succeed.

Not to hard.

-Hoard money to 5000$ (takes some time)
-build claim in 1 province colonie
-sell claim for money ,or trade for a province that has connection with other country's.-build more claims or conquer some land.

You can figure out the rest

Alternative is to have immigrants. (party editing huh?)

I think yeke offers more of a challenge.

[Falconhurst]

I think yeke offers more of a challenge.

Yeke? You must be joking...3 provinces, valuable resources (including tropical lumber), 10 times the population base of Hawaii (over 1 million), and vulnerable unciv neighbors? I could build claims (assuming I wanted to go that route) within 2 years with Yeke, whereas it took me 15 years to accumulate the 5000 L with Hawaii in a test game.

It looks like we need to come to a consensus here regarding a country. Hawaii is definitely a tough one, but I'm open to other suggestions.

What in your opinion is the toughest uncivilized nation in the world?

[Earth's Savior]

What in your opinion is the toughest uncivilized nation in the world?

Zulu!

[Falconhurst]

Zulu!

Is that a serious suggestion? 4 provinces, 750,000 people, rich provinces with tropical wood, unciv neighbor provinces with precious metal, and 7-10x the initial budget of Hawaii?

Believe me, I would much RATHER play Zulu or Yeke than Hawaii, as Hawaii is a lot harder and far more tedious. Yeke and Zulu both start with good military leaders as well. You don't really think that a one or two-time scripted war involving a great power will offset all those advantages?

[Earth's Savior]

Is that a serious suggestion? 4 provinces, 750,000 people, rich provinces with tropical wood, unciv neighbor provinces with precious metal, and 7-10x the initial budget of Hawaii?

Believe me, I would much RATHER play Zulu or Yeke than Hawaii, as Hawaii is a lot harder and far more tedious. Yeke and Zulu both start with good military leaders as well. You don't really think that a one or two-time scripted war involving a great power will offset all those advantages?

I play vanilla. Is Zulu different in VIP?

[lz14]

Hawaii is widely known as the best country to play a hands off game, meaning it sucks the most. Don't know if it's theoretically the worst nation but it certainly has the legacy for it. Another hands off game candidate was Bali, but it's a bit better than Hawaii and in VIP Dutch will declare war early which probably is a very good thing.

[Lurken]

Vote Hawaii

[Ciçatrix]

Hawaii would be very interesting, but doesn't it have a event series that triples it's population some time later in the game?

[Deo89]

I'd say... sikkim (Vip 0.4b)

[Falconhurst]

I'd say... sikkim (Vip 0.4b)

Sikkim has half the population of Hawaii (51,000) and is definitely weak economically (1.0 sheep). Nonetheless, Sikkim has a huge advantage. It is adjacent to two one-province minors, one of which (Nepal, pop. 1.5 million, produces tea) is very, very rich. Build 1 more irregular, whack Bhutan, build a third, whack Nepal, the Nepal has abundant manpower for the conquest of Tibet, Punjab, etc. just as in this Tibet AAR. Sikkim has both Tibetan and Nepalese state cultures. Much, much easier than Hawaii.

Hawaii has an event that gives a slight Japanese pop in 1885, either a "size 1" pop, or a "size 3" pop with an increase in everyone's militancy. I'm not sure how many people that is, but it seems unlikely that a tiny increase 50 years into the game would make any kind of a difference for WC. If Hawaii hasn't already annexed Japan by then I'd be surprised.

[Deo89]

Nepal, pop. 1.5 million, produces tea.

now i realize it but in my game it has 3.5 not 1.5

Well than other than hawai, i would say krakow than (without exploits)
You tried Krakow but not without exploits IIRC

[Lurken]

Krakow is still easier the Hawaii I think. It has landborders, it is civilized, though it is landlocked between Russia, Austria-Hungery and Prussia...

[Cinéad IV]

Krakow isn't a challenge! Hell, I've done great things with Krakow, which isn't saying much.

I'm going with Hawaii. Surely there canna be a crappier country than Hawaii?

That said, 15 years for one claim. We'll assume that you've built it in a relatively profitable province. Allowing another 5 years for it to be completed, you can then either sell it at a profit, or claim it and get the benefit of the population therein. That would boost your economy, allowing you to build more claims. Maybe, you could then go for the civilisation techs if you can get positive relations with a European country. Build up an army, guaruntee someone's independence so you can get into a war... things could be done. But it would require massive patience.

CMcU

[lz14]

There are one province colonies in west africa that borders some other weak African unciv. Once you get that claim you can attack those countries and it would be easy from there. Is that correct ? It would just take a lot longer.

[Coco]

Although Bdith did not quite understand why, he noted that his citizens base income instantly increased 2-3x after civilizing.

this i would assume is because pops not in states recieve 25% of their expected income, and im getting the impression that when you civilised, alot of areas became stated, increasing their income by 4x.

as to the hardest nation, i would have thought bali was harder or as hard (is it just 1 province in vip? it is in vanilla)

i dont think you will find any harder that low-pop 1 province island uncivs.

[Falconhurst]

this i would assume is because pops not in states recieve 25% of their expected income, and im getting the impression that when you civilised, alot of areas became stated, increasing their income by 4x.

as to the hardest nation, i would have thought bali was harder or as hard (is it just 1 province in vip? it is in vanilla)

i dont think you will find any harder that low-pop 1 province island uncivs.

Thanks for the tip about state income. I wasn't aware of that, or had forgotten.

Bali is a cakewalk. 2 provinces, over 1 million people, with one of the provinces producing expensive tropical wood. The other province produces fish at 3.0, twice the productivity of Hawaii. Result: 10x the population of Hawaii, and about 10x the income.

Hawaii is much harder than any of the other suggestions that have been put forth. So it is settled: WC with Hawaii, coming soon to a universe near you.

[Ciçatrix]

Hawaii is much harder than any of the other suggestions that have been put forth. So it is settled: WC with Hawaii, coming soon to a universe near you.

Now that will be worth reading.