• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Preliminary Fascist OOB: (just for people to provide some input)

Fascist Britian
(kept the designation HMS out of tradition, but instead of referring to "His" or "Hers" as in the royal family, it nows means "Her Majestry's Ship, and Her referring to the concept of Greater Brittania or The Motherland)

North Sea Fleet
HMS Greater Brittania (ahistorical) ----- Lvl III BB
HMS Fascisti (ahistorical) ----- Lvl III BB
HMS United (ahistorical) ----- Lvl III BB
HMS King Arthur (ah) ------ Lvl II BB
HMS Lancelot (ah) ------ Lvl II BB
HMS Guinevere (ah) ------ Lvl II BB
HMS The Black Prince (ah) ------ Lvl II BB
HMS Lighting (ahistorical) ------ Lvl II CV
HMS Pursuit (ahistorical) ------ Lvl II CV
HMS Renown ----- Lvl I BC
HMS Repulse ----- Lvl I BC
HMS Edinburgh (ah) ----- Lvl III CA
HMS Southhampton (ah) ----- Lvl III CA
HMS Plymouth (ah) ----- Lvl III CA
HMS Birmingham (ah) ----- Lvl III CA
HMS Ceres ----- Lvl I CL
HMS Coventry ----- Lvl I CL
HMS Curacoa ----- Lvl I CL
HMS Measureless ---- Lvl II CL
HMS Regardless ----- Lvl II CL
HMS Endurance (ah) ----- Lvl III CL
HMS Resurgance (ah) ----- Lvl III CL
HMS Disturbance (ah) ----- Lvl III CL
HMS Elegance (ah) ----- Lvl III CL

Channel Fleet
HMS Revolution ----- Lvl I BB
HMS Revival ----- Lvl I BB
HMS Panther ----- Lvl I BB
HMS Tiger ----- Lvl I BB
HMS Leopard ----- Lvl I BB
HMS Conquest ----- Lvl I CL
HMS Cleopatra ----- Lvl I CL
HMS Comus ----- Lvl I CL
HMS Birkenhead ----- Lvl I CL
HMS Chester ----- Lvl I CL
HMS Cambrian ----- Lvl I CL
HMS Castor ----- Lvl I CL


Irish Fleet
HMS Charger (ahistorical) ----- Lvl II CV
HMS Galahad ----- Lvl II BC
HMS Lionhearted ----- Lvl II BC
HMS Resolution ----- Lvl I BC
HMS Resistance ------ Lvl I BC
HMS Dauntless ---- Lvl II CL
HMS Limitless ---- Lvl II CL
HMS Boundless ---- Lvl II CL
HMS Selfless ---- Lvl II CL


Transport Fleet
5-8 Transports
1. Destroyer Flotilla - All Lvl II
2. " "
3. " "
4. " "
5. " "
6. " "

12 BB
3 CV
6 BC
4 CA
20 CL
 
Sarmatia1871 said:
Many thanks! Only point is that Britain isn't really fascist - it's more Socialist/Syndicalist at the start. This would only affect the renaming of ships, which I quite like doing anyway, so no problem at all!

my two cents worth. I think the 'British' ships should drop the HMS designation. The Canadians will be the 'new' Royal navy (and should probably keep the title of HMS) whereas the Socialist Brits change it to something else.

What that something else is, is the question. Something like:

SS (Socialist Ship)
BSS (British Socialist Ship)
PSBR (People's Ship of the British Republic)
RBS (Republic of Britain Ship)

something like that. Berlichingen, your 'fascist' named ships will have to be changed as well to more Socialist names, can I suggest at least one:

Consul John MacLean (or just Consul MacLean) - In real life he was made Soviet Consul of Britain by lenin (the only one) and was a major force in Scottish (and British) Communism (I think he founded the Communist Party of Britain - but not sure, will get back to you on that). As Communism does not exist here (in the sense of Soviet communism) and seeing that Britain is a leading 'Socialist' state, the leading figures of the Communist party and Independent Labour Party could be major figures in this Socialist State.

Unfortunately John Maclean died before 1936, though there are still a few figures that can be prominent for Britain. I will post some figures later that can be considered.

Ayeshteni
 
T-hiddemen said:
Would you like me to submit some propaganda posters for you to look at ?

If you've got some already, certainly! If not, just the pictures would do, as they're not that tricky to make.


Ayeshteni said:
What that something else is, is the question. Something like:

SS (Socialist Ship)
BSS (British Socialist Ship)
PSBR (People's Ship of the British Republic)
RBS (Republic of Britain Ship)

something like that. Berlichingen, your 'fascist' named ships will have to be changed as well to more Socialist names, can I suggest at least one:

....

Unfortunately John Maclean died before 1936, though there are still a few figures that can be prominent for Britain. I will post some figures later that can be considered.

Ayeshteni

Ah yes, are these your Scottish ministers?

For the navy, I was thinking more along the lines of 'RNS' ('Republican Navy Ship'), but RBS sounds quite good as well!

Other possible ship-names could be:

* Well known historical lefties (possibly just using the surnames though...), eg. Watt Tyler, John Ball, John Lilburne, Charles Bradlaugh, George Odger, Henry Hyndman, Fergus O'Connor, Robert Owen, William Morris, William Godwin...
* Popular movements/Rebellions, eg. People's Charter, Rebecca, Captain Swing, General Ludd, Leveller, Digger, Land and Labour....
* Battles or locations of interest/commemoration - Peterloo, Naseby, Tolpuddle...

That's off the top of my head, but I should be able to come up with some more later.

But names are very easy - the more important thing is the OOB!!!


EDIT: Oh yes, another thing I've remembered - for Germany, I'm putting von Seeckt as Chief of Staff and von Mackensen as Head of the Army (I could swap them round though if there is a major uproar!). In line with this, who would be good air-force and navy chiefs?

(Preferrably someone from the earlier list of Royals!)
 
Last edited:
Sarmatia1871 said:
In line with this, who would be good air-force chiefs?

(Preferrably someone from the earlier list of Royals!)

What about Manfred von Richthofen? Red Baron roxx the skies! :D
 
I suggest you putting Ludwig Reuter as Chief of Navy or if you want a Royal then Prince Adalbert of Preussen would be one of the perfect chose. Ok for Chief of Air Force you pick someone of the Richthofensquadron, maybe Manfred or Lothar Richthofen, also Ernst Udet would also be good! There are some more distinguished Flyers in the squadron, if you want I can look into it!

There wouldn't be any royal flyers till maybe 1938, cause till then Louis Ferdinand would have graduated from the flight school, as he did in real life and by then he woldn't be made an air minister, maybe by mid 1940 well he be ready! Also Hubertus Prinz von Preussen, his brother, also graduated from a flight school, so there will be two royal flyers by 1940!! :D

As we are on the topic! How come Göring got banished to Mittelafrika? :confused:
 
Gen.Schuermann said:
What about Manfred von Richthofen? Red Baron roxx the skies! :D

Hmmm, okay then, if there are no major complaints about this!

Zauberfloete said:
I suggest you putting Ludwig Reuter as Chief of Navy or if you want a Royal then Prince Adalbert of Preussen would be one of the perfect chose. Ok for Chief of Air Force you pick someone of the Richthofensquadron, maybe Manfred or Lothar Richthofen, also Ernst Udet would also be good! There are some more distinguished Flyers in the squadron, if you want I can look into it!

There wouldn't be any royal flyers till maybe 1938, cause till then Louis Ferdinand would have graduated from the flight school, as he did in real life and by then he woldn't be made an air minister, maybe by mid 1940 well he be ready! Also Hubertus Prinz von Preussen, his brother, also graduated from a flight school, so there will be two royal flyers by 1940!! :D

As we are on the topic! How come Göring got banished to Mittelafrika? :confused:

Ah, thank you for the Royal flyer information - I'll look for a picture of Hubertus and add him in. Please send more anything more you know about the rest of them - I can't really face trawling through the biographies of the Kaiser's family much more in the near future!

Becoming the official in charge of developing the glorious settlement colonies of Freistaat Mittelafrika isn't really banishment - it's a reasonably presitigious appointment, in a bit of an unproductive backwater, whose holder won't be able to make too much of nuisance of himself in everyday German politics!

Lettow-Vorbeck was a bit too obvious as a leader and would be about 65 years old by this time. So I was imagining that Göring would be quite likely to become involved as a figurehead or prominent figure in some sort of rightist political group within Germany, which was ostensibly pro-Government, but a bit too radical for the Prussian leadership. So, after serving a useful purpose and garnering votes for the Reichstag conservative block for several years, he was appointed Staatsverwalter of Mittelafrika as a reward for his loyal services to the European Kultur, thereby stopping him from getting too popular and becoming too much of a threat.

And plus, I want to give him a chance to go a bit 'Colonel Kurtz' while he's down there....
 
Sarmatia1871 said:
Ah yes, are these your Scottish ministers?

For the navy, I was thinking more along the lines of 'RNS' ('Republican Navy Ship'), but RBS sounds quite good as well!

yup (not all of them are Scottish, some are English).

GUY ALDRED

m5610408yc.png


Guy Aldred was an anarchist and communist who believed that socialism was a fundamentally libertarian phenomenon. Although English by birth he moved to Glasgow in 1912 and established the Glasgow Anarchist Group, which in 1921 joined forces with the Glasgow Communist Group to form the Anti-Parliamentary Communist Federation.

Politically, Aldred engaged in such diverse causes as that of Indian independence, the distribution of birth control literature, and anti-war and anti-conscription agitation during both world wars.

At various points between 1910 and his death in 1963, Guy Aldred edited five Glasgow based anarchist periodicals - The Herald of Revolt, The Spur, The Commune, The Council, and The Word.

Possible roles being Minister of Security or Foriegn Minister

DAVID KIRKWOOD

m5610395jp.png


David Kirkwood was born in Parkhead in the east end of Glasgow in 1873 and worked in Beardmore's steel forge in Parkhead from the age of 14 until his election, aged 49, as Independent Labour Party MP for Dumbartonshire in 1922. He was converted to socialism while still an apprentice at Beardmore's and became active within the Amalgamated Engineering Union, helping to organise a number of engineering disputes in the Clydeside area before becoming chief shop steward at Beardmore's and helping to establish the Clyde Workers' Committee in 1914. Kirkwood also became involved in Labour politics in Glasgow, joining the ILP around 1909 where he worked closely with John Wheatley, James Maxton and Emanuel Shinwell. Kirkwood became one of the leaders of the Clyde Workers' Committee and was arrested during the riot in George Square on 31 January 1919, which became known as Bloody Friday. Kirkwood was found not guilty while William Gallacher and Emanuel Shinwell were each sentenced to five months imprisonment. Kirkwood was later elected as a Labour MP and became Lord Kirkwood in the 1940s.

He would make a good Armemants minister or Apologetic clerk foreign minister

EMANUEL SHINWELL

m5610419vg.png


Although born and bred in London, Emanuel Shinwell was an active participant in the political life of Glasgow during the Red Clydeside period. He was chairman of Glasgow Trades Council between 1916-1919, and was also on the executive committee of the Clyde Workers' Committee during the 40 hours strike in 1919. Following the events of Bloody Friday in 1919, Shinwell was arrested and imprisoned for three months. He was elected to parliament in 1922 as Labour MP for Linthlithgow, and served as parliamentary secretary for the Department of Mines in the first Labour government of 1922. After the second world war he served as Secretary of State for War and Minister of Defence, and from 1964 to 1967 was chairman of the Parliamentary Labour Party. He was created Baron Shinwell in 1970 and died aged 101 in 1984.

Another English born, he could be a politburo Chieff of staff (politican rather than military) in which case he would be school of psychology. Or forign minister.

HELEN CRAWFURD

m5610445sk.png


Helen Crawfurd Anderson was the wife of a presbyterian minister and a devout Christian, but this changed in the early 1900s when she was attracted to the cause of women's suffrage. She fully endorsed the militant tactics adopted by the Women's Social and Political Union (WSPU). Her political activism and involvement in radical politics entered an intense phase in 1914 when she joined the Independent Labour Party (ILP) and then began to organise Scottish women in a campaign to oppose Britain's involvement in the first world war. Throughout the 1920s she was heavily involved in the Workers International Relief Organisation (WIR), an organisation set up to aid economically distressed regions of Soviet Russia. In 1946 she was elected the first woman councillor on Dunoon Council, a position she held for two years until ill health forced her to retire.

Firebrand of a woman she was a campaigner for womens rights and domestic issues (I have her as an ideological crusader foreign minister myself) but she may not be suitable for HoI2 position.

PATRICK DOLLAN

m5610388ng.png


P. J. Dollan was a prominent member of the Independent Labour Party (ILP) in Scotland who eventually became Lord Provost of Glasgow in the 1940s and received a knighthood in the 1950s.

Patrick Dollan made his political reputation in Glasgow in the 1930s, 1940s and 1950s, firstly as ILP councillor and then as Labour Party leader of Glasgow District Council. Dollan's wife, Agnes Dollan, was one of the leaders of the 1915-16 rent strike who also became a prominent Labour politician within Glasgow.

Security minister (man of the people)

SIR WILLIAM WEIR

m5610422ip.png


It was during the First world War that William Douglas Weir rose to national prominence. He had come to the head of the family engineering business some time between 1910 and 1912 but it was during the war that he first attracted the attention of the government as a brilliantly successful manager. Weir was appointed Scottish Director of Munitions in 1915 and was responsible for overseeing the implementation of the 'dilution scheme' on Clydeside. In 1915 he was appointed Controller of Aeronautical Supplies at the Ministry of Munitions in London and in 1918 he became Secretary of State for Air in Lloyd George's cabinet and was responsible for combining the naval and army air services into the Royal Air Force. He was made a Knight in 1917 and a Baron in 1918. He was to become a Viscount in 1938.

an armaments minister for sure (probably air to ground proponent) possibly even a head of government contender.

WILLIAM GALLAGHER
William Gallacher was leader of the Clyde Workers' Committee (CWC), and in his role as CWC chairman was imprisoned for sedition in 1916 and again for incitement to riot after the events of Bloody Friday in 1919. After attending the Third International in Moscow in 1920 as a CWC delegate, Gallacher converted to communism, and on his return to Britain played an influential role in the formation of the Communist Party of Great Britain. In 1935 Gallacher was elected as Communist MP for West Dunfermline and served this constituency as MP until 1950

he is already in the Scotland minister file as ideological crusader foreign minister. But he is also a contender for a head of state/head of government position.

Ayeshteni
 
Last edited:
Sorry about the confusion of Fascist Britian, I like RNS, it rolls off the tounge well. I've tried to stick to many British naming convetions, they had a fetish with ships ending in the same phrase, like the Darmouth, Plymouth, Yarmouth, etc, or the Glorius, Courageous, etc.

I'll change around some ship names, add a few, here is my basic plan:

- Communist France ---> Completes some uncompleted ships and pursues a powerful fleet program, 1) to be able to take out their royalist opponents in Algeria and 2) to be able to control their chunk of the Mediterranean and influence its affairs.
- Royalist France ----> lack of suitable naval construction harbors constrains major construction plans, Royalist France concentrates on lighter, cheeper vessels for coastal security and a powerful sub/escort fleet for her extensive trade and supply convoys

- Socialist Britian ----> Undergoes a major naval expansion for obvious reasons, security, and engages in a naval race against the Royalists in the colonies. Concentrates on more traditional naval warfare.
- Royalist Britian ----> Undergoes a major naval expansion and arms race with their Socialist opponents as well, but recognizes the importance of aircraft carriers and produces several very powerful carriers as the focal point of their fleet, also well develop a submarine fleet to help strangle Socialist Britian.

Any comments?
 
- Communist France ---> Completes some uncompleted ships and pursues a powerful fleet program, 1) to be able to take out their royalist opponents in Algeria and 2) to be able to control their chunk of the Mediterranean and influence its affairs.

I thought the idea was to essentially strip France of it's navy. (having Her focus on the army instead) It could probably be justified by the germans taking/sinking some of it and the rest defecting to the Royalists.

In fact, I could see Royalist France as a kind of latter-day barbery pirates. Attacking French vessels from the "usurpers" and generally being a nuisance with a navy that far outstrips their actual industrial base.
 
Arilou said:
I thought the idea was to essentially strip France of it's navy. (having Her focus on the army instead) It could probably be justified by the germans taking/sinking some of it and the rest defecting to the Royalists.

In fact, I could see Royalist France as a kind of latter-day barbery pirates. Attacking French vessels from the "usurpers" and generally being a nuisance with a navy that far outstrips their actual industrial base.

yeah, but they would have to be old decrepid ships as they will not have good naval facilities. So the Royalist French player will have to try and conserve her fleets as they will be hard to replace.

Ayeshteni
 
Ayeshteni said:
an article on JOHN MACLEAN you may find interesting to use him as background material for Socialist Britain. I definately feel he should have some important role in it.


http://gdl.cdlr.strath.ac.uk/redclyde/redclypeobyemle.htm

Ayeshteni

Ah, 'tis all brilliant! I'm now inspired to find some more British ministers today following on from this - I don't really like the default cabinet and I'm thinking that Wales deserves some prominent government figures as well!

I'm sure Maclean can be fitted somewhere into the backstory. I've also just found a collection of his writings, which could be useful to this too:

http://www.marxists.org/archive/maclean/index.htm


Berlichingen said:
Sorry about the confusion of Fascist Britian, I like RNS, it rolls off the tounge well. I've tried to stick to many British naming convetions, they had a fetish with ships ending in the same phrase, like the Darmouth, Plymouth, Yarmouth, etc, or the Glorius, Courageous, etc.

I'll change around some ship names, add a few, here is my basic plan:

- Communist France ---> Completes some uncompleted ships and pursues a powerful fleet program, 1) to be able to take out their royalist opponents in Algeria and 2) to be able to control their chunk of the Mediterranean and influence its affairs.
- Royalist France ----> lack of suitable naval construction harbors constrains major construction plans, Royalist France concentrates on lighter, cheeper vessels for coastal security and a powerful sub/escort fleet for her extensive trade and supply convoys

- Socialist Britian ----> Undergoes a major naval expansion for obvious reasons, security, and engages in a naval race against the Royalists in the colonies. Concentrates on more traditional naval warfare.
- Royalist Britian ----> Undergoes a major naval expansion and arms race with their Socialist opponents as well, but recognizes the importance of aircraft carriers and produces several very powerful carriers as the focal point of their fleet, also well develop a submarine fleet to help strangle Socialist Britian.

Any comments?

British navy ideas are great - esp. the idea about Royalist aircraft carrier development! I probably agree with everyone else about the French fleets - Communard France would rather have a big army, National France doesn't really have the facilities for a large naval buildup, and if either has too powerful a navy, then the feasibility of two states existing across the Mediterranean becomes a bit stretched!


CCurio said:
W...wh..what about MAF? And AOG!?

In naval terms I'd suppose that they'd rely on the German fleet for protection, much like the British colonies were defended by the Royal Navy throughout the 19th c. So, probably only very small token forces for immediate coastaline protection and defence.

***

Oh yes, on a (sort of!) related note, while I'm setting up this gigantic 'British Imperial Taiwan' in Canada, I'm wondering what would be the likely reaction of actual Canadians to all this? I'm already giving Quebec quite a strong syndicalist movement, drawing inspiration from France and so mobilising behind both a sense of linguistic/national seperation and political ideology, but what about English-speaking Canadians?
 
I found some pics of the childern of the Crownprince!



Ok here is Hubertus of Preussen, the son of Crownprince Wilhelm. He would be a good air fleet commander in the late 1940s (he graduated from flight school in early 1940).

I have a question though, as we now the eldest son of Crownprince Wilhelm was married to a normal, bourgoise woman and thus he must renounce all his claims to the throne. So instead of him Louis Ferdinand, his younger was next in line to the throne!

I assume that in the Kaiserreich timeline this also happend!

Also Wilhelms passion was always the army, but in OTL he was forbidden to serve in the Weimar Republic. But in the Kaiserreich he would have a very distingiushed carrer. Maybe you could make him a general of some sort! A minister should also be perfect, though certainly not under his grandpa or his father! :D

Will look for a pic of him!
 
Ah found a pic of Wihelm the Son of Crownprince Wihlem!!!



A yes forgot to mention, that Wihlem was very popular with the people! When he fell in WWII 50.000!! people came to his funeral!
 
Zauberfloete said:
Ok here is Hubertus of Preussen, the son of Crownprince Wilhelm. He would be a good air fleet commander in the late 1940s (he graduated from flight school in early 1940).

I have a question though, as we now the eldest son of Crownprince Wilhelm was married to a normal, bourgoise woman and thus he must renounce all his claims to the throne. So instead of him Louis Ferdinand, his younger was next in line to the throne!

I assume that in the Kaiserreich timeline this also happend!

Also Wilhelms passion was always the army, but in OTL he was forbidden to serve in the Weimar Republic. But in the Kaiserreich he would have a very distingiushed carrer. Maybe you could make him a general of some sort! A minister should also be perfect, though certainly not under his grandpa or his father! :D

Will look for a pic of him!

Thanks for this - all useful!

To my eternal shame, I didn't know about this complication in the succession of Crown Prince Wilhelm's sons. If this still happened in the Kaiserreich timeline (which would really be a bit of a disaster for Hohenzollern prestige!), then this could lead to a bit of a tricky political situation - particularly if Prinz Wilhelm's marriage is taken up as a cause celebre amongst German liberals wanting to end aristocratic dominance over society....
 
Sarmatia1871 said:
In naval terms I'd suppose that they'd rely on the German fleet for protection, much like the British colonies were defended by the Royal Navy throughout the 19th c. So, probably only very small token forces for immediate coastaline protection and defence.

Hmmm, so no great sealane fleets of BCs and CLs...all the more challange for me, Stathalter! :p ;)
 
Hey, I got a flag for that, erh, Chinese Kingdom of Heaven. :p

millenarists.gif


I figured that an aspiring national populist movement wouldn't have the resources to do really fancy flags...though I would have loved to put the movement's name (in chinese with chinese alphabet of course!) on the flag but eh, I don't know any chinese...

Also, I hate to do this but I wonder if it would be possible to redo the Legation Cities flag...? :eek:o

legation_cities2.gif


I got really unhappy with the screaming yellow color and I changed it to something bit more natural...

Also, perhaps Sudetenland could belong to Austria...?

Curse the FOTW for being down, I would have done Galizia-Lodomiria and Qing Empire next! :mad:
 
Last edited: