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Thread: Empire of Fu Manchu

  1. #2501
    Time Traveller seboden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon_Jester
    Churchill is going to be torn. On the one hand he was always a fairly strong America-sympathizer. On the other, he really didn't like the idea of losing the British Empire in the Far East. If we were talking about anyone else I'd say he had no idea what to do next. Since this is Churchill, he will undoubtedly come to a quick decision, but I'm not placing any bets on what it will be or whether it will be the right choice.
    But Churchill isn't Prime minister and has just been found out to have been controlled by Fu Manchu for the last 15 years, so I don't imagine he'll have much influence in this timeline.

  2. #2502
    The swastika behind Nicholas Cage in that pic might give some new readers funny ideas...

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    Leading the Mombotian Horde Lurken's Avatar
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    Hm...didn't know the logistics of the Wehrmacht was so crappy...I really do hope that the Wehrmacht gets their act together so they may supply Skorzeny and his troops...and all to other troops in Stalingrad...or it will indeed look bleak for our brave hero.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Yogi
    Meyer shrugged. The answer hung unspoken and ominous in the stuffy air of the command compartment.[/INDENT][/INDENT]
    I am so happy. Long live the Soviet Union!
    I am therefore officially rooting for a Franco-German strike on Russia, prompting the Soviets to strike back with their hitherto secret nukes. This will serve as a salutary lesson to all involved and leave everyone suitably chastened.-El Pip

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  5. #2505
    Quote Originally Posted by Faeelin
    I am so happy. Long live the Soviet Union!
    Boo!

    They both need to be destroyed by the Pan-Asians, who must inevitably be destroyed by the superior productivity and ingenuity of the United States of America!

    Oh, and I can't wait to see how Yamamoto avoids the inevitable purge of potentially treasonous IJN officers.

  6. #2506
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    It begins... Also, what's going on in Mexico? Is there any chance that they could enter the war on the American side, if just to stretch Pan-Asian forces/supply lines?
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  7. #2507
    not a beta for HoI3 Moderator Derek Pullem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon_Jester


    At least I know I expect the war on the American front to be over in the US's favor in another year or two. Given the force ratios and what I know about the two combatants, I honestly don't think it could last much longer than that.

    In this setting, there are no Desert Rats because the North Africa campaign never really got going.

    Churchill is going to be torn. On the one hand he was always a fairly strong America-sympathizer. On the other, he really didn't like the idea of losing the British Empire in the Far East. If we were talking about anyone else I'd say he had no idea what to do next. Since this is Churchill, he will undoubtedly come to a quick decision, but I'm not placing any bets on what it will be or whether it will be the right choice.

    Although by now, the Pan-Asians are in a position to wreck every port on the west coast of the United States, so it will be a long time before the Allies can threaten his naval superiority. They'll more or less have to build the seaports to capture the rear area bases to capture the forward bases that can even begin to threaten his territory. If we have to wait for "Victory at Sea," the war will run well into the late '40s and go nuclear before there's any chance of Pan-Asia falling.
    I'm not talking about Western Desert rats here - it's the future Mojave Desert rats I'm looking forward to

    It's Churchill - he'll probably be planning an amphibious invasion of San Francisco as we speak

    Actually.............. would solve a few problems as you rightly pointed out. But I'd also point out that those responsible for wrecking the port facilities are also likely to be the least reliable of Fu's forces right now
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  8. #2508
    Major Dinglehoff's Avatar
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    I am curious what kind of official recognition and power the Empress is granted by the western governments.
    Can she negotiate with America and Britian on behalf of some faction of mutinous Japanese forces? Her value as a propagandist alone is immense.

  9. #2509
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derek Pullem
    I'm not talking about Western Desert rats here - it's the future Mojave Desert rats I'm looking forward to

    It's Churchill - he'll probably be planning an amphibious invasion of San Francisco as we speak

    Actually.............. would solve a few problems as you rightly pointed out. But I'd also point out that those responsible for wrecking the port facilities are also likely to be the least reliable of Fu's forces right now
    That job can be carried out by ethnic-Chinese engineer units; ground forces are quite capable of blowing up drydocks and fuel tanks.

    A lot of the heavy machinery would have been destroyed by the Americans in the first place when the Pan-Asians took the coastal cities, too.

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    Woo hoo!! Marvelous, Yogi, marvelous. Now it's on, Fu!!

    As for Skorzeny - he and his troops practically raced through Russia that summer, so the infrastructure must be in a lot better shape than in OTL Stalingrad. It's still only August, the war started in... was it May? So they were going at over 400 km a month, from the Polish frontier to the Volga. The Russians just *can't* have destroyed more than a part of the locomotives and some bridges, there just wasn't any time. Now they have all summer to prepare, there will be a harvest in September and it won't be until November that the food situation at least will become bad.

    The Germans probably also captured immense supplies of fuel and coal when they overran the western USSR, so if they consolidate their lines along the Volga and east of Moscow, bring reinforcements and supplies from the Reich to the front, then they should be in a pretty good position to fight the eventual Soviet-Panasian fall offensive. Which by the way also can't be all that super... where will Stalin assemble his troops? Where does he get the heavy equipment for them, with all major factories west of the Volga in German hands, and most of his heavy forces overrun? And how will he get the ammunition and fuel stockpiles in place for an offensive? I don't see Fu having his army a thousand locomotives to spare, let alone have them carried by Yak and donkey over the Himalaya to help Stalin.

    No, Skorzeny is not in such a bad position at all, when you compare it to the OTL situation in the winters of 1941/42 and 1942/43. It's not France but he should be able to manage.

    How is Moscow, by the way? There's a thread in the History forum about how the Winter offensive 1941/42 would have played out had the Germans been able to shelter AG center in Moscow.

  11. #2511
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    My impression is that Moscow is the new Stalingrad. The Russians can't resupply the city. But they have so much stuff inside that the Germans are making progress only very slowly, having to blast the enemy out meter by meter.

    So, like the Soviet siege of Stalingrad, this could go on for a very long time and kill a lot of people on both sides.

  12. #2512
    Dad of two Korppi's Avatar

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    Nice update again.
    It will be interesting to see Britain and Germany on same side.

    Japanese troops changing sides on some areas might make thinks interesting too

  13. #2513
    Evil Genius The Yogi's Avatar
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    Derek Pullem: Britain seems to be making a tremendous effort at defending its Asian Empire - something in the order of twenty-twentyfive divisions, including at least one armoured division are deployed to India, Burma and Malaya. Of course Pan-Asia has close to sixty divisions in that same area. The deciding factor for the Asian campaign could well be air power. Pan-Asia has next to everything in America. If the UK sends most of Bomber Command to India, that could make a real difference. On the other hand, the RAF could be relatively quickly depolyed to America to reverese air superiority in that theatre. While the british interceptors (Spitfire Mk Is and Hurricanes) have a little short legs for American distances, their bombers could make a real difference.

    Agree on Churchill, BTW. If his real life plans are any guid, sending an invasion fleet through the Panama canal must seem like a very shrewd move to him right now.

    Simon_Jester: Regarding Indy's division, very perceptive of you. The US AI is in full "Shit-were-going-to-die panic" and pumping out infantry and militia like there's no tomorrow - which in truth there isn't. Militia might not be able to stand up even to Pan-Asian cavalry divisions, but they can advance where unopposed, and with no more than 39 Pan-Asian divisions in the United States so far (24 cav, 8 inf, 6 arm, 1 HQ), finally being able to build up some sort of continous front is going to have repercussions.

    The Moscow-Stalingrad simile is a good one. The Germans suffered heavily taking it, but with no supplies reaching the defenders (as opposed to what happened in Stalingrad), the outcome was never in doubt.

    Seboden: While you're right, this has obviously been kept secret - it would be tremendously damaging to morale and would cause paranoia on an Empire-wide scale. Lord Halifax knows, of course, and Nayland Smith's people but hardly anyone else. And would Churchill let such a thing stop him from stating his views vociferously?

    dublish:Hmm, didn't notice that... One wonders what Fu Manchu's role would have been in "Werewolf Women of the SS"... Stay tuned and you might just find out! America is in a sorry state right now and won't be doing much destroying by themselves right now. Even IF they manage to boot out the Pan-Asians, it will be quite some time before they can project much power overseas. For the forseable future, the Axis and the Commonwealth (perhaps with the support of the neutral block of France, Belgium and the Netherlands) will have to carry the brunt of the fight in Eurasia.

    Lurken:The bleak picture of German logistics is both historical and game-depicting. Historically, already by the time of operation Typhoon, the German supply system in Russia was more or less in shambles. Mostly captured civilian trucks were breaking down at incredible rates. Apparently, the maximum range of operations for the German motorised transport pool was around 250 km from railhead to front*, so the Germans divided what they had in two halves to be able to operate at double that distance. That took them more or less to the Stalin line. This was an important factor behind the plan to destroy the Red Army close to the border. In this story, because the Red Army was deployed mainly to finish of Finland, Southern Army Group has encountered only light resistance and as a result has been able to advance at a consistent rate of around 25 km per day from June 1st to the end of July, which took them all the 1.500 km to Stalingrad. Of course, this was impossible for their regular suppy system to handle and the Luftwaffe has been forced to fill in, flying the most basic needs in. By the same token, most of the AGS forces swung north soon after reaching Kharkov, to help in the encirclement and conquest of Moscow, and were thereby able to operate a bit closer to the railheads. Only a few motorized divisions (the LAH including) pushed on to Stalingrad. Game-wise, the German transport capacity is brutally overstretched by occupied territories and partisan activity. No unit in Russia is operating at better than 60% effective supply and the distant spearheads at much, much less.

    A more detailed account of the Eastern campaign will follow in a regular update soon, I think this needs clarifying.

    *Learnt this from Zebedee on the history forum, who in turn is using Glanz as a reference.

    Faelin: Good to see someone is rooting for Team Fu at least!

    GeneralHannibal:Mexico is at worse possible relations with Pan-Asia, so given that it is a democracy and Pan-Asian aggression levels are through the roof, a DW could conceivably happen at any time. Argentina already threw in it's lot with America.

    Dinglehoff:Right now the Empress is only that, a propaganda tool. IF a an armed rebellion gets going, it would be logical for them to consider the Empress their government in exile, but we aren't there yet.

    Leviathan07:Indeed, the forces at Stalingrad are going through a supply slump right now, but it's bound to get better as infrastructure levels improve. As for Moscow, it fell when the Germans used the Metro II lines to infiltrate forces into the Kremlin itself immediately after the adventure of Duhrn and Skorzeny there. This was mentioned in the post where Bond got his mission in the Dutch East Indies (with the protesters).

    I followed that thread on the history forum you mentioned with interest and posted a few thoughts myself, in case you didn't notice!

    Korppi: Yep, things are VERY fluid right now. Hard to predict the outcome anywhere.
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  14. #2514
    Evil Genius The Yogi's Avatar
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    Pan-Asian Flagship “Akagi”, Cam Rahn Bay
    Indochina, Pan-Asian Empire

    Tuesday, August 12th 1940




    The aircraft carrier “Akagi” was named after a mountain, because just as the American carriers “Lexington” and “Saratoga” she had begun her existence as a battle cruiser, and such ships were named after mountains in the Japanese navy. This had made her and her American counterparts the largest Fleet Carriers in the world. Now, with all the US carriers except the elusive USS Wasp sunk, the “Akagi” with a 42.000 ton displacement and 90 aircraft on board, retained the distinction of being the largest and most powerful carrier in existence. As such she was the natural flagship for the Fast Carrier Squadron of the Pan-Asian Imperial Navy which waited, moored in the former French Naval base of Cam Rahn Bay to begin operations against the British Royal Navy. Accompanying the “Akagi” were the four other fast carriers remaing to the Pan-Asian navy after the fight with the USN Pacific Fleet, and the accompanying cruisers and destroyers of the task force.

    Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto was pacing the deck of the bridge. Unusually for a leader who made a point of always showing calm and steadfast leadership, he was clearly on the verge of an outburst. But then the conundrum he was facing wasn’t tactical or strategic or even political, something that his long struggles with the army would have prepared him for coping with. It was related to honour and loyalty, the very cores of the ethos of the Japanese Samurai class which the officer corps considered itself descended from. At stake, in a real if philosophical sense was Yamamoto’s very soul, and that of all officers under his command.

    Kaigun Taishō-Sama, the other carrier captains have arrived at your summoning’, a lieutenant announced.

    ‘Very well. All other hands, abandon the bridge. NOW!’ Yamamoto allowed himself the relief of venting a little bit of his anger and discomfort. The Captains of the five carriers were the highest ranking officers he could see personally on such short notice. Immediate deliberations on a common stance in the matter were imperative, or the Fleet would come apart, not just because of officers picking different sides but because of the accusations of dishonesty and disloyalty would trigger nothing short of an inter-naval civil war fought by sword duels to the death.

    The five captains stood at attention before him on the vacated bridge, all resplendent in their dress uniforms. Without a doubt, they had all been expecting his summon and wished to tackle the issue with dignity. Off course, wearing a dress uniform also meant that they could carry their katana swords, which if of ceremonial purpose were also quite deadly weapons of war. Yamamoto too carried his ancestral blade. The issues at stake were THAT serious.

    ‘Gentlemen, I will not beat around the bush; I have brought you here because we need to find an agreement on how to handle this situation!’

    They all nodded. He didn’t need to mention what situation that was. As far as every Pan-Asian officer of Japanese nationality was concerned, today there was only one situation worthy of mention.

    ‘First of all, whatever the decision you are leaning towards, let’s all agree on one thing; we are ALL loyal to the death to the Emperor, and no one must be allowed to cast that in doubt. Do we agree on this at least?’

    Again, they all nodded with patent relief. Hands hovering close to sword grips relaxed visibly. The bridge would not turn into a scene of massacre, at least not today.

    ‘Second, I will present my view on how the fleet should act in accordance with such loyalty. I will permit you to voice your objections to these views, as long as my honour is not slandered.’ He deliberately rested his right hand on the hilt of his sword. The meaning was very clear; careless words would not be tolerated. The captain’s jaw muscles tightened and some of them swalloved. The atmosphere was as charged as before a lightning storm.

    ‘I concede that the Emperor’s TRUE WILL might not be clear at this point. However, the Emperor’s ORDERS are beyond doubt. In the absence of clear indications on what the true will of the Emperor is, we are bound by our oath to follow the letter of his commands. That is my view. You may speak.’

    The first among them, Captain Kusaka of the Akagi, cleared his throat.

    Kaigun Taishō-Sama, there are many who feel that the Emperor could never have agreed to the present state of affairs if he had been master of himself. Elevating this… this Chinese Hinin* to be his equal! It’s intolerable!’

    ‘And yet until yesterday you followed his orders without question!’ Yamamoto shot out, a little more sternly than he had intended. The last thing he wanted was to humiliate or mortify his officers.

    Kusaka paled with anger, but he too worked hard control his temper. ‘Yesterday, the Empress had not exposed this villain’s plans to the world!’

    Yamamoto nodded. ‘The Empress is in the hands of the British, with which we will be at war within less than 24 hours, unless they submit to our ultimatum. How can you know she wasn’t indeed kidnaped by the British and forced to tell propaganda lies as the Chinese Emperor claims?’

    ‘You’ve been to Britain for the London conferences, Kaigun Taishō-Sama. You have met the British. Does this sound to you like something they would do, with their obsession with “fair play” and gentlemanly behaviour?’ Kusaka answered.

    Yamamoto sighed, his shoulders slumping. ‘Admittedly, no. But we have been planning this war for some time now. IF the British learnt about it, who can tell what their desperation might lead them to do? They are not all noble and lordly – they have their spies, their agents too, and they are every bit as underhanded and without honour as ours are. In any case, this is far too tenous evidence to reject the direct orders of the Emperor, and he has ordered us to proced regarldess of the Empress statements.’

    Kusaka nodded. ‘Very well, Kaigun Taishō-Sama, we will do that. Until we can find more solild evidence to corrobrate the Empresses claims.’

    Now it was the Admiral who nodded. ‘Agreed. As a representative of the Navy, I will myself demand to see the Emperor, with my personal doctor in tow. Between four eyes, I will ask his permisson to take a blood sample, to ascertain if he is under the influence of any drugs or not. If I am denied to see the Emperor, then that will tell us something.’

    ‘And if the Emperor refuses you the sample?’

    Yamamoto threw out his arms in exapseration. ‘Then what can I do but obey? What can anyone of us do, but obey?’


    *Non-person – the lowest social class of classical Japan, encompassing criminals and travelling minstrels.
    Last edited by The Yogi; 20-10-2008 at 18:56.
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  15. #2515
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    Even after this blow Fu still seems to have the upper hand, no rebellion of Yamamoto and the Japanese fleet, if the British fleet is destroyed a later rebellion might be to late, and who knows if Fu isn't already planning some terrible accidents at sea that will destroy both the British and the Japanese fleets in one blow.

  16. #2516
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    Quote Originally Posted by yourworstnightm
    Even after this blow Fu still seems to have the upper hand, no rebellion of Yamamoto and the Japanese fleet, if the British fleet is destroyed a later rebellion might be to late, and who knows if Fu isn't already planning some terrible accidents at sea that will destroy both the British and the Japanese fleets in one blow.
    Oh dear, I just got an image of R'lyeh surfacing in the middle of the british navy...
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  17. #2517
    Leading the Mombotian Horde Lurken's Avatar
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    But the thing is that Yamamoto expressed doubts, time will tell if those suppressed doubts will come out in the open...
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  18. #2518
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Yogi
    The Moscow-Stalingrad simile is a good one. The Germans suffered heavily taking it, but with no supplies reaching the defenders (as opposed to what happened in Stalingrad), the outcome was never in doubt.
    I was thinking in terms of what happened to the Germans after they were cut off inside Stalingrad in turn, in the winter of '42-43. As opposed to the German offensive pushing into the city in the fall of '42.

    Seboden: While you're right, this has obviously been kept secret - it would be tremendously damaging to morale and would cause paranoia on an Empire-wide scale. Lord Halifax knows, of course, and Nayland Smith's people but hardly anyone else. And would Churchill let such a thing stop him from stating his views vociferously?
    Quite possibly. Churchill could keep a secret if he knew it was important. For example, he conspicuously did not put nearly enough emphasis on the role of codebreaking in his history of the Second World War. Why? Because the techniques by which the British cracked the Enigma code were still military secrets...

    I wonder if Fu has an unbreakable code of his own.

    Of course, this was impossible for their regular suppy system to handle and the Luftwaffe has been forced to fill in, flying the most basic needs in.
    Although I think some of the slack could probably be made up out of captured Russian supplies, given the pace of the advance. As others say, I expect that the Germans should have captured at least some Soviet rolling stock and railroads intact, and that stuff will work on the Soviet rail lines.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Yogi
    Kaigun Taishō-Sama, there are many who feel that the Emperor could never have agreed to the present state of affairs if he had been master of himself. Elevating this… this Chinese Hinin* the be his equal! It’s intolerable!’
    Fu Manchu as travelling minstrel... I like it.

    Quote Originally Posted by yourworstnightm
    Even after this blow Fu still seems to have the upper hand, no rebellion of Yamamoto and the Japanese fleet, if the British fleet is destroyed a later rebellion might be to late, and who knows if Fu isn't already planning some terrible accidents at sea that will destroy both the British and the Japanese fleets in one blow.
    If the British can defend themselves effectively, then the war gets prolonged. If the war gets prolonged, then the Empress's role becomes more significant.

    I was hoping for an outright revolt of the Imperial Navy, but even without that, the Empress's defection makes a major difference. In game terms, Fu just took a nasty dissent hit- the Japanese portion of his empire is now disaffected and discouraged. Rumors that the Emperor is drugged or controlled won't go away, and the simple fact that the Empress is alive and not dead undermines Fu's credibility and control.

  19. #2519
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    More specifically, even without a revolt of the Navy, this might make it easier for british agents to operate. There might be a significant temptation among the japanese (army and navy) to "go stupid" at crucial times.
    "Man is free; but his freedom does not look like the glorious liberty of the Enlightenment; it is no longer the gift of God. Once again, man stands alone in the universe, responsible for his condition, likely to remain in a lowly state, but free to reach above the stars.."
    -Jean-Paul Sartré

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    Field Marshal Faeelin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Yogi
    Faelin: Good to see someone is rooting for Team Fu at least!
    I'm cheering for the workers and peasants of the Soviet Union against another monster. In an ideal world, Skorzeny and Fu would die with strangling each other as Indie unleashes the Ark of the Covenant.
    I am therefore officially rooting for a Franco-German strike on Russia, prompting the Soviets to strike back with their hitherto secret nukes. This will serve as a salutary lesson to all involved and leave everyone suitably chastened.-El Pip

    Great War: The American Front: Can the United States defeat Britain and its Confederate Lackeys? Or will the CSA defend its freedom against the Yankee Menace?

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