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The Yogi said:
Faelin: Good to see someone is rooting for Team Fu at least! ;)

I'm cheering for the workers and peasants of the Soviet Union against another monster. In an ideal world, Skorzeny and Fu would die with strangling each other as Indie unleashes the Ark of the Covenant.
 
So cracks start to form in Pan-Asia. If the British, Americans and Germans and start to push back and maybe put Pan-Asia onto the the defensive then the tension between Japanese and Chinese elements as well as the resentment directed towards' Fu's leadership by the former will certainly grow. Now the Anglo-Americans just need to win some major battles, no problem right? :rolleyes:
 
Just curious, what exactly is the situation in France, Belgium and Holland? I don't think we've heard anything about them.

I know that they were knocked out of the war by Germany, but apparently aren't puppet states. Are they still Democracies? Will the Pan-Asians attack the DEI.
 
GeneralHannibal said:
Just curious, what exactly is the situation in France, Belgium and Holland? I don't think we've heard anything about them.

I know that they were knocked out of the war by Germany, but apparently aren't puppet states. Are they still Democracies? Will the Pan-Asians attack the DEI.
From what I understood, their exile governments were allowed to return and the countries were restored to their previous independent and neutral status. However I suppose an implicit condition of the armistice was that they would make no demands for reparations and in general stay quiet about their relation towards Germany. The war made it very clear that they stood no chance against the German military, and since Britain and France are not allowed to station any troops there, or negotiate military assistance, they are more or less Finlandized. (I.e. they have silently accepted that Germany is their big bad neighbour and that, even though Germany will not meddle directly in their politics, they will refrain from upsetting Germany in any way.)

Whether this agreement will still stand once the war against Pan-Asia is over, is something else altogether. France is going to have elections in 1941 (unless Petain finds a pretext for postponing them indefinitely) and then there might be a revanchist government seeking to turn the tables, rebuild the Entente and get Alsace-Lorraine back again.
 
Leviathan07 said:
From what I understood, their exile governments were allowed to return and the countries were restored to their previous independent and neutral status. However I suppose an implicit condition of the armistice was that they would make no demands for reparations and in general stay quiet about their relation towards Germany. The war made it very clear that they stood no chance against the German military, and since Britain and France are not allowed to station any troops there, or negotiate military assistance, they are more or less Finlandized. (I.e. they have silently accepted that Germany is their big bad neighbour and that, even though Germany will not meddle directly in their politics, they will refrain from upsetting Germany in any way.)

Whether this agreement will still stand once the war against Pan-Asia is over, is something else altogether. France is going to have elections in 1941 (unless Petain finds a pretext for postponing them indefinitely) and then there might be a revanchist government seeking to turn the tables, rebuild the Entente and get Alsace-Lorraine back again.

You're mostly correct, although note that the Netherlands were never involved in the war at all and remain traditionally neutral (although doubtlessly Finlandized into tacit cooperation with Germany). France and Belgium suffered amputations (Alsace Lorraine and the Bastogne area respectively) and France was also made to pay heavy reparations in excess to repaying the Versailles indemnities with accumulated interests. (This is simulated ingame with an uncancelable one-way trade deal between France and Germany) Both France and Belgium were made neutral by treaty (much like Austria was after WW2) but were allowed to be so jointly in a bloc, so there's a military alliance between Belgium and France (only way ingame to prevent them from joining the Allies). Pétain did hold elections already (they were due in the spring of 1940, which was convenient since this was a few months after armistice) and won by a landslide. So he'll be around until 1944 at least. In the meantime he's moving for a reform by referendum of the constitution to vastly increase Presidential power, ushering in a IV Republic. If so, he could be president a lot longer.
 
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Ah, ok. The Bastogne area taken from Belgium, is that just the region that was part of Germany before 1919, or also a greater part of the Ardennes region? Liège and the environs remains Belgian, right? (There was a plan in WW1 to annex everything east and south of the river Meuse, roughly a third of Belgium.)

And what's the status on Indochina? I just re-read some chapters of the story, and back when Yamamoto and Fu discussed plans to attack the USA, they also talked about Indochina. However no mention was made of an ultimatum. Did the attack on the US preclude this? Or did it already happen?

And what is the state of the French navy? If Indochina is still French, then the upcoming offensive would bring them into the Allied camp too, and the Marine National might serve as a useful ally in the Indian ocean. Maybe Hitler might relent on the reparation payments, if they do... a rebate of 1 penny for every bullet rifle fired at the Panasians, a shilling for every cannon shell, 100 goldmarks for every fallen Frenchman? :wacko:
 
Leviathan07 said:
Ah, ok. The Bastogne area taken from Belgium, is that just the region that was part of Germany before 1919, or also a greater part of the Ardennes region? Liège and the environs remains Belgian, right? (There was a plan in WW1 to annex everything east and south of the river Meuse, roughly a third of Belgium.):
That is exactly what has happened, everything east-south of the Meuse (HOI2 provinces Bastogne, Liege and Arlon. I didn't look at the map before answering, "Bastogne area" is pretty imprecise for an area including Liège. My bad. The Reich also annexed Luxemburg, but you knew that.


Leviathan07 said:
And what's the status on Indochina? I just re-read some chapters of the story, and back when Yamamoto and Fu discussed plans to attack the USA, they also talked about Indochina. However no mention was made of an ultimatum. Did the attack on the US preclude this? Or did it already happen?
It already happened, put apparently I've forgot to mention it - at least I couldn't find any mention of it as I browsed through old updates. Again, my bad.

Leviathan07 said:
And what is the state of the French navy? If Indochina is still French, then the upcoming offensive would bring them into the Allied camp too, and the Marine National might serve as a useful ally in the Indian ocean. Maybe Hitler might relent on the reparation payments, if they do... a rebate of 1 penny for every bullet rifle fired at the Panasians, a shilling for every cannon shell, 100 goldmarks for every fallen Frenchman? :wacko:
In all probability, the UK and Germany can agree to allow France to participate in the war, coordingating with Britain and the Netherlands. France wants Indochina back, so will be spoiling for a fight...
 
The Yogi said:
Pétain did hold elections already (they were due in the spring of 1940, which was convenient since this was a few months after armistice) and won by a landslide. So he'll be around until 1944 at least. In the meantime he's moving for a reform by referendum of the constitution to vastly increase Presidential power, ushering in a IV Republic. If so, he could be president a lot longer.
Well, a little longer. Pétain is a very old man.

Question: how autocratic is Pétain's government in this history, compared to Vichy?
__________

Re: France and the oncoming Pacific War

Yeah. Under the circumstances, with the minor West European nations' colonies all threatened or already confiscated by Pan-Asia, there's a good chance of Hitler deciding to form a "Pan-European League" or something with Britain to contain the Pan-Asian threat.
 
Simon_Jester said:
Well, a little longer. Pétain is a very old man.

Question: how autocratic is Pétain's government in this history, compared to Vichy?
__________

Re: France and the oncoming Pacific War

Yeah. Under the circumstances, with the minor West European nations' colonies all threatened or already confiscated by Pan-Asia, there's a good chance of Hitler deciding to form a "Pan-European League" or something with Britain to contain the Pan-Asian threat.

Seconding this, what is the status of the opposition in France. Are socialists like Blum still around (clearly the commies aren't). What about radicals like Daldier, or conservatives like Mandel? And the rest of the French parliamentary gang?

What's the status of the people who were pro-war in general?
 
Yeah. Historically, the Vichy government was kept under tight control by the Nazis, and the fact that a number of politicians refused to participate probably limited the political spectrum further.

It's interesting to consider what might have happened if Hitler had won quickly, and then left Western Europe alone instead of having to garrison it against the British and Americans.
 
yourworstnightm, Lurken: Yamamoto has serious doubts. But he doesn't want to see his command degenerate into infighting and doens't think there's enough evidence to warrant a rebellion - at least not just yet.

Arilou: Regarding R'lyeh; there's a cheery thought! :eek: Regarding "going stupid", yes, it's a problem and a big one if the troops are not sure they want to win. Combat efficency is going to take a dissent hit anyway.

Simon_Jester: The Germans have captured large amounts of Russian supplies and some rolling stock - mostly rail cars though, not many locomotives, and it does help - otherwise their supply system would most likely have collapsed entirely from an advance that took them to Moscow and Stalingrad in two months instead of historical four months to Moscow and a little over a year to Stalingrad. Historcially, they were unable to adequately supply their forces from september 1941 on, but managed to make do anyway.

Faeelin: Yeah, I know. I'm just baiting you! ;)

VILenin: The question is wether these cracks will help in winning such decisive battles or not. But however difficult the balance of forces is on the ground, the maritime balance of power is highly favourable to the Allies. The Royal Navy alone has eight carriers to the Pan-Asian six - add to that the indomitable USS Wasp and the first Kriegsmarine Carrier which is set to be launched in september. In terms of battleships and cruisers, the advantage is even greater.

GeneralHannibal, Leviathan07, Simon_Jester: Pétain is a lot less autocratic in this story, because he doesn't need to be. Because the occupation ended almot immediately, he's not seen as a collaborator but as a national hero who has saved France for a second time, this time as a statesman rather than a soldier. There is considerable French bitterness directed at the British for refusing to negotiate a joint peace with Germany and later striking a deal over the head of conquered France, and for not contributing much to the war in France.
 
Medan
Sumatra, Dutch East Indies

Tuesday, August 12th 1940


jungle_night.jpg


‘I can’t believe his home address was in the bloody phone book!’ Fah Lo Suee hissed, crouching with Bond among the moon-cast shadows and the foliage of the vast tropic garden of the Dutch Police Commissioner of Medan. ‘What were these fools thinking!?’

The garden, surrounded by a brick wall, covered almost an acre of ground, and was densely planted with exotic flowers, bushes and trees. There was even a pond with lotus flowers. The Commissioners large house was a typical early century colonial villa, basically a two story European house with a Javanese-style roof.

‘I’m not that surprised’, Bond whispered back. ‘The Netherlands is a very neat and orderly place. Crooks are expected to run from the Police, not seek them out. That would simply not be cricket. It’s much the same with us, actually. Our Police don’t carry guns, and as a consequence, neither do the criminals, well most of them anyway.’

‘The idiocy of the Europeans never ceases to amaze me.’ Fah shook her head slowly, as if disbelief. ‘And you think of us as inferiors? I might oppose my father - mainly because, thanks to you and Nayland Smith, he wants to kill me – but I can’t find any great fault with his intention to drive your Empires out of Asia and rule it himself instead. It would probably benefit the Asians as much as him.’

Bond shrugged, uncomfortable with the subject. ‘Be that as it may, the Empress will speak in a few hours and we have no time to loose – but do you suppose we can just waltz in there?’

Fah made a face. ‘The local Si-Fan must know that we would have no trouble finding the Commissioner, and interrogating him is our most logical move. The instant they realised we escaped they must have sent people to either kill or protect him.’

‘And I suppose we’re going in regardless?’ Bond said, checking his tiny Beretta. The policeman Fah had hypnotized into releasing them had been most helpful.

The daughter of Fu Manchu smiled, which reminded Bond of a tigress baring her fangs. ‘Of course.’ She drew her Kris, the same black blade that had killed Black Naga and which was now her weapon of choice.

They moved silently as shadows through the lush garden. There were no dogs, which was a bad sign. It would seem the Si-Fan did not want to scare away their quarry before the jaws of the trap closed around them. But as Doctor Jones, renowned tomb raider that he was, used to say, the first and most important part of avoiding a trap was to know it was there in the first place. Of course, the second part was not walking into it.

Fah used her knife, muffled by a handful of her dress, to break one small window pane at ground level, allowing her to reach in an arm and open the latch from the inside.

‘Wait a second’, Fah whispered, putting a hand on Bond’s arm as he was about to climb in through the open window. He handed him a masked electric torch. ‘Shine it into your eyes before you go in.’

‘It’ll destroy my night vision!’ he objected.

‘Precisely. Just do it!’ she snapped. ‘If they’re not waiting for us it won’t hurt and if they are…’

Bond shrugged and briefly stared into the bright light. Just as he’d expected, the world went more or less pitch black, with a brief localised flash of light in front of him as Fah Lo Suee repeated the procedure. Then suddenly the darkness was filled with the soft scent of Fah Lo Suee’s perfume, which as usual made his head spin. Before he knew it, her soft lips were pressing against his in a kiss that had nothing sisterly about it. He responded with a vengeance.

‘Just for luck, lover-boy!’ she whispered, panting slightly, and softly slapped his bottom. ‘In you go!’

Once the two agents had climbed inside, they sensed, more than saw, that they were in a large room, probably the living room. Almost at once, electric lights lit up as the Si-Fan sprung their trap.

‘SI-FAN!’

There were six of them shouting, tall dark men in loose, flowing silk pantaloons, embroidered vests and silk turbans, all brandishing Kris knifes – Malay roughnecks, the rank and file of the Si-Fan in these parts of the world. As soon as the lights went on, they charged Fah and Bond shouting terrible war cries. Unfortunately, their victims were not initially blinded by the bright lights and reacted with ruthless counter-attack. Bond’s little silenced pistol plopped twice, and two of the knife-fighters rolled on the thick carpet with small holes in their forehead before a third managed to close with the Englishman. Fah surprised the first comer with a vicious kick to his groin, followed up by a slash of her black blade across his throat as he bent forward in pain. Now sparks flew as blades clashed – Bond drew a combat dagger from a holster hidden under his jacket and parried a slash that would otherwise have disembowelled him. In addition to the flashing blades, kicks and punches cut the air with blinding speed. Fah Lo Suee had trained Shaolin Kung Fu since childhood, and Bond had picked up a lot during the time in Hong Kong. Their opponents, on the other hand, knew more than a little of the Sumatran fighting art of Silek. The explosive shouts and grunts of the combatants mixed with the crash of toppling furniture as the fight swirled through the living room of Lucius Van der Gelden.

****​

The lights went out in the living room windows.

‘Is it over? What happened?’ Lucius van der Gelden asked eagerly, leaning towards the windshield of his car, which stood parked at the gate in the wall.

Zhao Han, lieutenant of the Si-Fan and one of the few remaining diehards that had fought with Fu Manchu in the Boxer uprising, frowned, stroking his long but thin grey beard with long-nailed fingers.

‘It’s not easy to say, Honourable Commissioner. We shall soon see, however.’

A minute or two went by in mounting tension, until the front door of the villa opened and a single man clad in wide silk trousers, vest and turban walked out on the porch. Although half hidden in the moon-cast shadows, Van der Gelden and Zhao Han could see he carried a lifeless body, to judge from the dress belonging to a woman, over one shoulder. The man lifted her arms, showing them to be tied together with a piece of cloth.

‘I can’t believe it!’ Zhao shouted. ‘They’ve captured Fah Lo Suee alive! Fu Manchu will shower me with gold for this!’

‘Where are the others? There were six of them!’

‘Dead or wounded, probably. Between us, I didn’t expect them to defeat the fearsome Fah Lo Suee, but they must have taken her by surprise. Oh, what a catch!’

‘So it’s safe?’ Van der Gelden asked, frowning. ‘I can go back?’

‘Yes, yes, you fool! Quickly, drive us there now!’ Zhao shouted excitedly, rummaging through a leather suitcase placed between his feet in front of the passenger seat for a bottle of chloroform. ‘We must not let her wake up; she’s incredibly dangerous!’

The Dutchman snorted dismissively but engaged first gear and pressed down on the accelerator. His silver Mercedes 500K, pride and joy of the Police Commissioner, rolled slowly over the gravel path leading up to the main entrance.

Zhao Han jumped out of the car with a speed belying his age and ascended the porch stairs two at a time. When he looked up, he found himself staring straight into twin pools of true cat green which sucked in his very soul and left him paralysed and shivering – Fah Lo Suee’s head no longer hung limply, and Bond, clad in the clothes of one of the defeated Malays was gently putting her down on her feet. In his free hand, the Beretta was pointed straight at the flabbergasted Policeman, who was halfway to the house before he understood what had happened.

‘Come inside, Commissioner, please. And don’t worry, just do as you’re told and I promise you’ll live to see tomorrow.’

‘I’m not saying anything!’ the Dutchman said, nostrils flaring wide with fear. ‘They’d kill me!’

‘Ah, but you will, Lucius’, Fah promised in her most sultry voice. ‘And you’ll be delighted to do it. Come in now, let’s chat as old friends, the three of us.’​
 
The Yogi said:
yourworstnightm, Lurken: Yamamoto has serious doubts. But he doesn't want to see his command degenerate into infighting and doens't think there's enough evidence to warrant a rebellion - at least not just yet.

Arilou: Regarding R'lyeh; there's a cheery thought! :eek: Regarding "going stupid", yes, it's a problem and a big one if the troops are not sure they want to win. Combat efficency is going to take a dissent hit anyway.


VILenin: The question is wether these cracks will help in winning such decisive battles or not. But however difficult the balance of forces is on the ground, the maritime balance of power is highly favourable to the Allies. The Royal Navy alone has eight carriers to the Pan-Asian six - add to that the indomitable USS Wasp and the first Kriegsmarine Carrier which is set to be launched in september. In terms of battleships and cruisers, the advantage is even greater.
.

The maritime advantage is even greater given the strategic position of the attack on America. With enormously long supply lines the troops in the USA are going to be cut off.

I'm still betting on an amphibious invasion by the British - possibly from Fiji / Tonga on Hawaii or less likely from Vancouver on San Francisco.

I wonder if Yamamoto would risk the fleet in unfavourable odds to save Fu's armies. I suspect not.
 
Derek Pullem said:
The maritime advantage is even greater given the strategic position of the attack on America. With enormously long supply lines the troops in the USA are going to be cut off.

I'm still betting on an amphibious invasion by the British - possibly from Fiji / Tonga on Hawaii or less likely from Vancouver on San Francisco.

I wonder if Yamamoto would risk the fleet in unfavourable odds to save Fu's armies. I suspect not.

Except you are counting on a competent AI. What will actually happen is Fu will defeat them in detail.
 
Faeelin said:
Except you are counting on a competent AI. What will actually happen is Fu will defeat them in detail.

I do remember Yogi saying that he would flip sides at one point. ;)
 
Three cheers for Bond and the indefeatable Fah Lo Sue!! :D The corrupt Dutchman will soon regret his treasonous association with the Fu's henchmen.

Derek Pullem said:
The maritime advantage is even greater given the strategic position of the attack on America. With enormously long supply lines the troops in the USA are going to be cut off.
Depends, actually. If the Japanese get the drop on the Royal navy, then the vastness of space will not be a disadvantage to the Japanese because there will be no Royal Navy left to take advantage of it. :p

The vastness of space between the nearest US base (Panama) and the Pan-Asian Pacific routes is actually not that much of an advantage to the US Navy, because the enormous distance they need to cover means that the IJN picket line can be far south of San Diego. The Mexican pacific ports are exposed and useless except for refueling because the dockyards are too small to handle even cruisers, and there is no air cover available. US raiding will be terribly ineffective, and if the air units protecting the Panama canal are pulled back into the US mainland then the US bases in Panama are actually quite vulnerable to IJN strikes.

The British have no advantage either, they operate from the Indian Ocean and need to fight the Japanese in the confined waters around Malaya and the East Indies. They may be able to operate some squadrons from Australia, but not their main fleet.

Actually, a while ago I saw a list of the British drydock capacity around the world during WW2. It was in one fo the threads either in the History forum or here in the HoI2 AAR forum. There really weren't that many drydocks capable of taking in aircraft carriers or battleships - and Singapore had the largest drydocks outside of Britain. There are no drydocks for carriers and battleships anywhere between Singapore and Alexandria, that means that the main British battle fleet cannot actually operate at top efficiency any more in the Indian Ocean if it loses Singapore. Their rebasing to Alexandria was prudent given the danger from a Panasian surprise attack, but it put them very far away from the theatre.

I don't see, by the way, how Vancouver can play any large role in this war. It's unlikely that there are any major Commonwealth units based there, and the Japanese can strike at it at will from their bases in San Francisco and San Diego. If the Commonwealth troops can provide air cover to Vancouver and keep the Panasian armies away from the city, then it might support submarines and some fast units, but for big ships it's probably too exposed.

Of course if Fu loses his dominance of the Pacific then everything will change, and all those exposed bases will become thorns in the side of the Japanese. I don't want to be in the Panasian American armies' situation when that happens. :D
 
Fah certainly comes in handy as a traveling companion. Intelligent, a capable fighter, and easy on the eyes too. :D

Her take on the Europeans and their sense of "fair play" was great.
 
Leviathan07 said:
The vastness of space between the nearest US base (Panama) and the Pan-Asian Pacific routes is actually not that much of an advantage to the US Navy, because the enormous distance they need to cover means that the IJN picket line can be far south of San Diego. The Mexican pacific ports are exposed and useless except for refueling because the dockyards are too small to handle even cruisers, and there is no air cover available. US raiding will be terribly ineffective...
Submarines? The US Navy doesn't have a reputation for it, but they were arguably on par with the Germans in terms of using submarines as commerce raiding.

Of course, at this point in the war a US Navy submarine has limited firepower because its torpedoes are junk. I believe there was at least one occasion when the torpedo went in a circle and would have destroyed the firing submarine if the captain hadn't ordered a crash dive.
 
This is now truely a World War. (is it II or III now?) With the Petal Throne and the Soviet Union versus Germany, The United States, and The United Kingdom, it is going to be very epic. While the Soviets might not be outright allied to the Petal Throne, I have a feeling that Fu will eventually take it over just like he did Japan.

I also think that I have noticed a trend. I remember that Yogi has stated that he plans his massive Fu epic to be a trilogy. So far he has:

Master Plan of Fu Manchu (HOI 1)
Empire of Fu Manchu (HOI 2)

Does this mean the third part will be a HOI3 AAR?