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Considering the relative poverty of the West as well , it could be a tenuous enterprise if they want to enter into a kind of relationship with the East unless there's an early Renaissance in the West , I think . As far as Pope and Patriarch , I trust that Mettermrck will have sufficient ways of realizing the problem .
 
It is good to see that Remus has taken his rightful position in Rome. But so many enemies lay in every direction. I hope that Rome don't overstretch its limits and don't loose all the success it has gained so far.

And I was looking forward to that historical overview. Made things more clearer.

Keep on the good writing!
 
It's good to be able to diverge from history. The Bishops who are barbarian lands might try to arrange it so they are in a position to challenge Rome's religious authority. Certainly Mediolanum inside the Empire would as would Carthage were that brought back in. Neither of the two players has an Emperor who sees eye to eye with them. Monks were typical thugs and it was not uncommon for meetings between bishops, in dispute, to be end in open fights between theirs.

Constantine moved the Imperial Capital to the City. Remus isn't going to move it back by fiat. He may resume some of the religious authority that Constantine definitely used - a throwback to the practice of deifying late Roman Emperors (those who couldn't wait to die before attaining divinity were not thought well of) and since Heliogabalus every Emperor including Constantine was Head Priest of the cult of Sol Invictus (by the late third century the only difference that educated pagans could find between Chrisitans and Sol Invictus worshippers was that the Christians worhipped on the Sabbath, whilst those of the Sol Invictus worshipped on the day of the Sun [Sunday]).

The historical Vandals had forts only around their capital; the game's not likely to make it that easy for Remus and Selenus.

Comes was a higher rank than Dux in the old Empire. It would appear that Remus has reversed that. A Comes had free range , the Dux was static. They don't needas many ships. Just wait til Crosica and Sardina revolt and all the Vandals will go off to put them down. Then slip in and take the capital - at least it worked for Belisarius.

The Burgundians look as though they'll be the first to feel Remus' wrath.
 
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canonized said:
Considering the relative poverty of the West as well , it could be a tenuous enterprise if they want to enter into a kind of relationship with the East unless there's an early Renaissance in the West , I think . As far as Pope and Patriarch , I trust that Mettermrck will have sufficient ways of realizing the problem .

Well, maybe Rome does not quite need a renaissance.

They have most of the knowledge, it's just scattered and hard to access. Peace will probably ensure an easy spread, so that western Rome can rise again, as the phoenix it is proving to be.


But peace, I think, is the best thing that can happen to Remus right now. Gallia and Italia can be wealthy provinces, IF given the chance to develop. Of course, the blocking that is Burgundy is a problem, since that means trade is slightly more difficult between the two.
 
Very interesting to see the situation in the world around the beginning or Remus’s reign. The world might be at peace at the moment, but in this world with so many enemies and so many “friends” that wants to fight for revenge and freedom I am certain we shall soon see more warfare. It is good that the two Roman Empires have started to co-operate though, I think the world needs to have Roman peace, stability and friendship if the barbarians are to be stopped in their expansion and evil plans…
 
Well, the game is afoot. Remus and Anastasius can either choose to hang toghter or hang seperately.

Let's see what will come up next.
 
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Fulcrumvale: Indeed, in an age where one has to fight to thrive...

Plushie: Though the game doesn't always compare well to the story, yes they're both vassals. They're tied to Rome now, but it's possible they might try to slip the leash.

VILenin: I think the Emperors will try to hold the Bishops down and resolve this schism, though that might be difficult from a civil point of view. I think they'll try to keep it from widening. Yes, Remus has a vested interest in controlling any attack on Africa, and I think this is balance by the East's interests in any Balkan campaign. I think for now Remus is in Rome, but no guarantee he could shift as time goes on. Romulus' restoration helps make Rome a practical place to begin.

CatKnight: We'll see. I think a revived West makes the East nervous, sure, though for the moment Anastasius finds Remus useful.

canonized: I think an East-West settlement of sorts, if not really binding, could at least neutralize their common border, like two fighters standing back to back, free to punch in their respective directions. We'll see how the schism progresses. I think the historical record will be influenced by the secular development in the West, certainly.

Lofman: Certainly on the list! The Suevi have held their own quite well, an in-game element I plan to use in the story. They could be useful if Alaric II tries to seek revenge or Remus comes against them.

Spothisto: Thanks! I like the historical overviews, too, it gives me a chance to take stock of my story.

Chief Ragusa: Yes, your suggestion really got me researching the many bishoprics of this era and I've run into a few nice historical figures I'd like to use. I think the clerical balance will be heavily influenced in how the West's development continues. Viator hangs on to both titles, Comes and Dux and he has a bit more political autonomy than a regular Prefect. He's loyal to Rome, of course, but Dalmatia is more of his "fief". The Burgundians will look for any opportunity to jump on Remus' back when it's turned.

Avernite: Peace is certainly desired, but I think the West needs more warfare to stabilize their position. I think even if Remus chose not to keep fighting, it would be thrust upon him.

Lord E: They'll need that cooperation for the moment. But woe betide Europe if both Empires revive to become powerful rivals.

Darks63: Awww, the Emperor keeps his eye on the bishops, fear not. :)

Vindicare: I think the alternate history in the West will help give the history in the East a boost, certainly.
 
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”Another, Prefect?” Remigius gestured to the table where the pitcher remained easily two-thirds full.

Medone, knowing the bishop’s penchant for austerity, wisely refused. ”I know my limits, tua gratia.” He tried to ignore the hard surface of the wooden chair and its effect on his back, avoiding another such sign of weakness. Of course, the bishop was quite aware of all his struggles, which is why his sparse living quarters in Reims was such an advantage to him, as was Medone’s choosing to visit him in his home city. It was a mark of deference which did not go unnoticed, the Roman Prefect of Gaul journeying to call upon the Bishop of Reims.

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The hard stone walls around them were roughly hewn, the old basilica having survived the recent Frankish sack with moderate damage. Remigius had chosen to repair yet not improve, disdaining his peers who were picking opportunities to add comforts to their small sees. His spirituality was harsh on some yet it drew in a measure of respect throughout the region, making him perhaps the senior prelate in all of Gaul. Having his brother Principius installed as bishop of the provincial capital, Soissons, also helped. This independence could be seen in how he ran his church, preferring a more Gallican liturgy, which reflected a regional character distinct from its Ambrosian or Celtic counterparts, for example. Remigius was known to conduct the readings with slow dignity and with an intensity that withered visitors to the church, sinners all. He also frowned on such innovations as the use of a choir or schola singing hymns during the gathering. All of this contributed to his conservatism and suspicion of some of his rather enthusiastic peers.

He had less suspicion reserved for the Prefect, naturally. Medone was a vital servant, dedicated yes, perhaps with a bit lack of understanding, yet he was loyal and very useful. He may not truly grasp the importance of their work, but he knew its value to the bishop and to God, and that was enough. And it was the work that was the reason for their latest meeting. With the border with the Franks loosening, thanks to the recent settlement, the bishop and his brother had eagerly begun pushing forward the bounds of the church. The boundaries between Roman Gaul and the Frankish Kingdom were always in flux due to constant raids and warfare and now with King Clovis’ defeat, they naturally drifted east once more, absorbing empty tracts of land on the northern coasts and down to the rich lands surrounding his own see at Reims and Sparnacum. The newly open lands meant new subjects to tend to. Eastward went zealous brothers with fear only for God, and they were soon to be followed by churches to guide the new converts on their journey of faith. Arras, north and west from Reims, was becoming a center of this pious effort, and Remigius wanted to mark its elevation with a new church. Despite the generosity of Christian aristocrats and a friendly Prefect, there were simply not enough funds to pay for its construction and for the men to erect the humble structure. Having appealed to Medone, the emperor’s hand-picked governor in Roman Gaul, and finding his funds wanting, the bishop had then turned to the commander of the army, Calvus, who rebuffed him stiffly. The rebuilding of Laudanum and even the bishop’s own city were of greater priority, he was mildly rebuked.

So it was back to the Prefect. ”It’s the honey,” he said with a confident smile. ” Makes the drink go down softer. So, if you’re content, then perhaps I can touch on some matters of import. I wanted to convey my displeasure at the general’s latest rejection. If you are in difficulties providing enough funds for the project, Prefect, I simply must draw the manpower from the army instead. You have influence with General Calvus, yes?” He drew his hands together in contemplation, starting with direct questions to which he already knew the answer. It was a useful method to gauge the other’s mood before they moved into more sensitive topics.

”We served together and that is the limit of it, I’m afraid.” Medone glanced to the tiny window, the only glimpse he had of the outside world. Already it was growing dark, typical of late winter evenings in Reims. The Vidula would threaten to freeze in the coming weeks, making travel more hazardous. Perhaps, he thought for a moment, he wouldn’t make this trip for a little while. Realizing the Bishop was staring at him, he shifted with a touch of guilt. ”I simply have no say over the use of the army. The Dux Gallias takes his orders directly from the Imperator and the Magister Militum. I can assure you from personal experience that the emperor hasn’t the scope of mind for religious matters, and Claudius even less so.”

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”I confess I thought as much,” Remigius replied, looking away from the governor with a dismissive flick of his eyebrows. ”Very…regrettable…” he said idly. Regrettable that power in the province had returned to Rome, when Syagrius had been so malleable. He longed to bring the faith to the fallen tribes, the ones polluted by Arius’ heresy. And even more so, to the pagans in the east, the Franks especially, the Saxons, the Alemanni. There was so much to do. Why did no one see this? The Prefect here was willing but the spirit was weak. And how was a bishop to render unto God when everything around him was being rendered to the new Caesar?

”We must simply have faith, Prefect. And I can sometimes produce a little more faith among my colleagues when needed. I am putting stylus to parchment on a few letters to my friends in the south. They’ve been huddling nervously after Macrinus captured Rome and now we’re all anxiously awaiting our newest father. Perhaps a call to faith can rattle the scattered shepherds back to our own necessary affairs. To our own flocks.”

Medone nodded blankly, finding himself missing the days past, when he had ridden on the dash to Burdigala. The physical dangers were so very real and exciting, and now they were masked by soft words and inquiring looks. He had always known his true path, however, and now that he was in a position to hold power in some measure, he would place it at the feet of God as he had vowed so long ago. ”I understand. I will do what I can with the resources I can muster. Perhaps I overlooked some coin in one of the local treasuries. And I can send my own letter to Bishop Aeonius in Arles. He was acquainted with my father.”

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Smiling benignly, Remigius stood awkwardly, producing enough noise to summon one of the brothers to his side. ”A meal for the Prefect here and perhaps a little soup for myself, nothing more.” His manner became friendlier and with a hand on Medone’s shoulder, he began guiding him to the door to the communal hall. ”Your efforts are not going unnoticed, my young friend. Together, we will do great things in bringing God’s kingdom to fruition. Finishing the church in Arras is only the first step! Now come, you can join me for my evening prayers.”
 
Ahh , one of my favourite past times , bringing the faith to the heretics and heathens . Though seems things are starting to look up , one could hope that stability at the core of the Empire might also trickle to the outlying regions .

I always thought about the stability of a Roman state resting on the Christianization of its neighbors . Justinian tried to do it , as I recall . Bringing civilization out to them . I wonder if things like that might work here .
 
Medone had better get his priorities sorted. if he does write to the Bishop of Arles asking for money, Alaric II is not going to believe it's all innocent on the part of his Bishop.

Viator sounds more like a Vicar of the Diocese of Illyricum than Comes or Dux. it would have been rare to combine all three posts in one person in the late empire, though Viator does have a good Gothic reason. I'm surprised he wasn't named as Prefect of Italy, Africa and Illyria.
 
While I think it is very good that the Church it trying to take care of heretics and heathens, I fear that this church will be more trouble than Remus will like. I have no trouble understanding that both Remus and Claudius have no interest for the church; after all they are men of war and not of religion. But they will need to adapt to the church and its workings if they are to secure Remus’s grip on power and his support from the people, the church might create a loft of trouble… I guess we can just hope that Remus will take control of everything and stop the priests before they do anything silly.
 
An independant Bishop from Gallia trying to mix religion and politics? Oh dear... Remus won't like that at all if it turns out bad.


Then again, isn't it always that way?
 
Attempting to “purify” heretics is a very good way to alienate a population into treason. In Egypt, a decade of persecution meant that the Copts actively supported the Muslim invasion….

Religious persecution is bad, m’kay?
 
Then again, religious unity brings stability.

Plus, what does the Church care for stability? It cares for saving the misguided, and although this is usually easier in stable times, you sometimes need to create some instability to achieve lasting stability.


Also, nice plotting going on. I suspect Claudius will be called to Gallia to recover order, then go on to Avalon ;)
 
I'm going to be the optimist here . If there was one thing the Roman Empire bequeathed to the European world its that a single universal Church breathes stability into the life of the population . Aside from being a partisan for the Church , guilty as charged , I also hold out that without the Church having to suffer through the harshness of being without Imperial protection , it might actually flourish side by side with the Empire . A lot of the reason Church troubles in the Early Middle Ages was such a problem , I posit , was due to the increased threats from Barbarians and Arians which left the Latin Rite without a Defender of the Faith thus forcing the hierarchy to fend for itself which included managing secular affairs .

If this historical course was changed -- that is , if the Empire fosters and sponsors the Church , it is entirely possible that the kind of labyrinthine and Byzantine (no pun intended) politics of clergymen and noblemen etc might have been avoided .

let us also remember that part of the reason for the aristocratic air of the clergy was that in the Barbarian kingdoms , the bishops were mostly chosen from the literate Aristocracy . If a meritocritous policy is implemented by the Empire , we could see much less politicization of the Latin Rite .
 
We wouldn't want to avoid the labyrinthine and Byzantine politics of clergymen and noblemen. What else would Mettermrck have to write about?

I think you're looking at Early Church history with too much rosy hue.
Remus isn't going to tolerate any one playing politics, he has his own ideas about stability.
 
canonized: It's interesting the desire of the bishops to Christianize will be within an imperial framework, so one wonders if Remus will encourage or perhaps restrain and control this religious impulse.

Chief Ragusa: Definitely, that Arles/Provence region is loosely controlled by the Burgundians, desired by the WRE and also watched by the Visigoths. Could be a nice focal point. Ah, Vicar! I remember you mentioned that title. So far I have Viator as a titular Dux with an unofficial understanding that he's given some civil reign in his province since he ruled it for so many years. Maybe Vicar will be a good dignity to bestow upon him...

Lord E: That is very true. In all my studies of church history, I have to keep it in my head that in the 490s, these bishops were reacting to a Ostrogoth king by now, and the imperial civil framework was missing at the highest level. I have to forge a new path, though probably not too detached from the old.

Vindicare: Of course! No utopian happiness in my stories! :)

Fulcrumvale: I hear ya, of course Remus doesn't always listen to me hehe.

Avernite: It'l be an interesting mix. The Church has the missionary impulse, with an Emperor trying to bestow stability from above.

alex994: In the long-term, yes, affairs in Gaul will bring a greater awareness of Britain to the Romans. I haven't talked much about the situation on the island, though I have been polishing a timeline to try to reconcile the ancient/Arthurian/my stories into a plausible whole.
 
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