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Thread: Historical Improvement Project

  1. #1561
    First Lieutenant Aidan's Avatar
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    New resources first impression: With the changes to money it seems oil and rares are a bit too cheap. I can trade 10 oil for $15 with the US and 20 rares for $5 with Netherlands (as GER). I was running with +$420 so I found it pretty easy to pre-war stockpile. With the Swedish/German Iron ore purchase events I didn't need to trade for that at all. Overall better than pre 6.6 because if I made no trades I'd be in serious rares/oil deficits.

  2. #1562
    Nuke the site from orbit. hellfish6's Avatar
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    I'm playing the latest version. How come Warsaw isn't the capital of Poland anymore? Also, as Germany I'm still having no problem acquiring resources. I haven't bought any ore from Sweden yet.
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  3. #1563
    Quote Originally Posted by hellfish6
    How come Warsaw isn't the capital of Poland anymore?
    Look at a real map and compare the terrain (comparing the river position helps) . You'll notice that Warsaw simply isn't located where the Warsaw province is located in the game. It is located in the Radom province.
    As much as we dislike the fact that we can't rename those provinces, we also wanted to let Poland's capital have the correct position on the map, since that position changes a few things, strategically spoken.

    About the ressources. The UK is under a lot more pressure right now than Germany, that's correct. We will try to adjust the prices and will probably also deactivate the automated Iron Ore deliveries from Sweden.
    We are also still working on a dynamic adjustment of the resource amount on the map every year. Especially near the end of the scenario there should be a little to few resources around. We'll try to improve this fruther. But we are glad that you think this is an improvement over pre-0.66 already.


    Quote Originally Posted by Aidan
    New resources first impression: With the changes to money it seems oil and rares are a bit too cheap. I can trade 10 oil for $15 with the US and 20 rares for $5 with Netherlands (as GER). I was running with +$420 so I found it pretty easy to pre-war stockpile. With the Swedish/German Iron ore purchase events I didn't need to trade for that at all. Overall better than pre 6.6 because if I made no trades I'd be in serious rares/oil deficits.
    First version of adjusted prices with your examples:

    10 oil for $23
    20 rares for $8.8

    Better?
    Last edited by KeldorKatarn; 01-08-2006 at 22:37.

  4. #1564
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    Playing 0.65 (wanted to finish game before downloading new version). Forced the UK into a negotiated peace. Forced Soviet Union into the Bitter Peace. Not at war with anybody before in nearly 1943 before modernizing my forces and going out again.

    Former puppet governments in Poland and in the Soviet Union. Only thing is, they were not puppets and they were not allies. This needs to be fixed.

    Because I based out of Poland, Poles got control of Ukraine and there's no way under the game systerm to change that except if I go into the autosave file. They weren't even building garrisons, so partisans were running around until I did it for them. They when the Bitter Peace came, the area went back to the Soviet Union. I'm going to have go to into the savegame file to change that. That territory should somehow be controlled by Germany right off.

    Formed puppets out of England, Scotland and Wales. Won't do that again. Now they exist alongside the UK, and I don't know how to bring them together again. I need to look and see if there is an event I can manually trigger.

    Italy gets screwed out of any territories at a surrender. She didn't even get Malta.

    Egypt should be made into a viable state in case of a surrender. Right now they have two pieces of desert split by UK territory.

    Can't access your dowload site right now...
    Robert Glaub
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  5. #1565
    First Lieutenant Aidan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KeldorKatarn


    First version of adjusted prices with your examples:

    10 oil for $23
    20 rares for $8.8

    Better?
    Good question. I dunno if my current stockpile it too much yet. I think the best way to balance Germany's resources should be for Germany to be able to stockpile enough oil to last through '43 with historic oil usage. At the moment I have near 100k oil in early '40 so I think it may be too much, but I don't know for sure. I do a historical build so I'll let you know where my oil reserves are at in '43 and '44.

    My current game took an ahistoric turn with a 1940 Comintern v. Allies war so I'll probably have to restart. Commies are already starting to stack 20 divisions per province on my border so an ahistoric Barbarossa wont give me very good test results.

  6. #1566
    Quote Originally Posted by rwglaub
    Former puppet governments in Poland and in the Soviet Union. Only thing is, they were not puppets and they were not allies. This needs to be fixed.
    The next version will fix a few issues with liberating countries.
    Slovakia and Croatia will be puppets again. The Ex-Soviet Nations will join the axis and making them puppets will work now.
    All those nations including the Polish puppets have StartUp events now, so they will also have a small military to start with. They will also all be fashist nations.

    Formed puppets out of England, Scotland and Wales. Won't do that again. Now they exist alongside the UK, and I don't know how to bring them together again. I need to look and see if there is an event I can manually trigger.
    This I didn't understand. Did you puppet them by event (shoudn't be possible yet) or manually? Manually they do of course exists alongside the UK unless you annexed all of UK before you do so.
    We are planning a few improved surrender events for the UK which will have a better solution for this, than puppet them manually.

    Italy gets screwed out of any territories at a surrender. She didn't even get Malta.
    At a UK surrender you mean? As I said, we will improve the UK surrender events.

    Egypt should be made into a viable state in case of a surrender. Right now they have two pieces of desert split by UK territory.
    Same as above


    Quote Originally Posted by Aidan
    Good question. I dunno if my current stockpile it too much yet. I think the best way to balance Germany's resources should be for Germany to be able to stockpile enough oil to last through '43 with historic oil usage. At the moment I have near 100k oil in early '40 so I think it may be too much, but I don't know for sure. I do a historical build so I'll let you know where my oil reserves are at in '43 and '44.

    My current game took an ahistoric turn with a 1940 Comintern v. Allies war so I'll probably have to restart. Commies are already starting to stack 20 divisions per province on my border so an ahistoric Barbarossa wont give me very good test results.
    I suggest you wait with starting a new game until 0.67 comes out. It will feature changed (higher) resource prices as well as a dynamically changing resource amount.
    Also the Iron Ore Trading Event with Sweden and the Oil Trading events with Romania and USSR will be deactivated.

  7. #1567
    v0.67 is out
    (checksum: ZQZO)
    • Fashist Poland and fashist Ex-Soviet Nations do now have startup events, army,
      and puppeting them and letting them join the axis works now
    • Croatia and Slovakia are now German puppets again
    • Resource prices revised
    • German events for Swedish iron-ore, Romanian oil, USSR oil deactivated
    • Resource amount will change dynamically every year now.
      (This is done with >3000 additional events so expect a little longer loading time. We are trying to find a different solution
      for this)
    • Minor graphics changes

  8. #1568
    Keep up the excellent work!

  9. #1569
    Captain TheGreatRadish's Avatar
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    Lol, I Can't keep up with you guys!

    Fantastic work - the best mod out there by a mile.
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  10. #1570
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    I triggered the puppeting of Wales, Scotland and England manually, because I didn't want to have to build the 21 divisions necessary to garrision the islands.

    What was funny was that England had an enclave in Alexandria and the UK did nothing about it, so I was able to sail fifteen divisions into it and take Egypt and the Canal.

    I invaded Britain with a hasty invasion when recon flights showed the British forces stacked in Plymouth, and no one in Dover. So a quick paradrop to secure the port, and just a couple of naval transport missions to get the troops across.

    You probably know this, but Wales and England have no ministers, and puppet Poland has no military leaders.

    I would like to see it where instead of building corps of one divisions, your allies actually concentrate their troops, so they stop having corps of one division with no leaders. I would also like to be able to integrate loaned troops with your forces, but that's probably hard-coded.

    Quote Originally Posted by KeldorKatarn
    The next version will fix a few issues with liberating countries.
    Slovakia and Croatia will be puppets again. The Ex-Soviet Nations will join the axis and making them puppets will work now.
    All those nations including the Polish puppets have StartUp events now, so they will also have a small military to start with. They will also all be fashist nations.



    This I didn't understand. Did you puppet them by event (shoudn't be possible yet) or manually? Manually they do of course exists alongside the UK unless you annexed all of UK before you do so.
    We are planning a few improved surrender events for the UK which will have a better solution for this, than puppet them manually.



    At a UK surrender you mean? As I said, we will improve the UK surrender events.



    Same as above




    I suggest you wait with starting a new game until 0.67 comes out. It will feature changed (higher) resource prices as well as a dynamically changing resource amount.
    Also the Iron Ore Trading Event with Sweden and the Oil Trading events with Romania and USSR will be deactivated.
    Robert Glaub
    rwglaub@yahoo.com

  11. #1571
    Major PanzerMike's Avatar
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    Playing 0.67

    Started a new game to test 0.67 (currently in april 1940). Some findings:

    - it looked like the event after the fall of the checoslovakia that gives you the two armor divs refused to fire. IIRC it fired almost instanteneously after annexation. After a few weeks, I fired it manually

    - same thing for Weserubung. Fired it manually. It had still not triggered in March 1940. Am I missing something

    - for Germany it still is no problem to collect oil. I scrounge the world market for oil and do business with everybody (including the USA, Netherlands, etc.). Managed to amass 130K in early 1940 and despite fighting a war I still gain some 50 oil a day.

    - getting enough metal ore is pretty difficult. I loose like 50 a day now.

    - lone raiders fairly succesful, allthough once intercepted in big trouble. Two of my three raiders almost sunk (I try to have three permanent raiders at sea at any time, the three BC36's)

    - loaded as UK to see what state they were in in april 1940. Oi They only have something like 7K of oil and are loosing oil daily at an alarming rate! Looks like they will be in trouble very soon once the battle for France begins. Maybe because I import all the oil from over the world, they get the short end? If that is the cause, than maybe the USA and other nations 'unfriendly' to Germany should be less willing to trade oil with me?

    That's all for now
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  12. #1572
    [QUOTE=PanzerMike]Started a new game to test 0.67 (currently in april 1940). Some findings:

    - it looked like the event after the fall of the checoslovakia that gives you the two armor divs refused to fire. IIRC it fired almost instanteneously after annexation. After a few weeks, I fired it manually

    - same thing for Weserubung. Fired it manually. It had still not triggered in March 1940. Am I missing something[QUOTE]

    We didn't change anything regarding those events. If your keep getting this keep us posted, we'll look into the matter. In my hand-off games Germany keeps doing Weserübung, but sometimes a little later, sometimes even at the same time as Fall Gelb, meaning April 1940.

    - for Germany it still is no problem to collect oil. I scrounge the world market for oil and do business with everybody (including the USA, Netherlands, etc.). Managed to amass 130K in early 1940 and despite fighting a war I still gain some 50 oil a day.

    - getting enough metal ore is pretty difficult. I loose like 50 a day now.

    - lone raiders fairly succesful, allthough once intercepted in big trouble. Two of my three raiders almost sunk (I try to have three permanent raiders at sea at any time, the three BC36's)

    - loaded as UK to see what state they were in in april 1940. Oi They only have something like 7K of oil and are loosing oil daily at an alarming rate! Looks like they will be in trouble very soon once the battle for France begins. Maybe because I import all the oil from over the world, they get the short end? If that is the cause, than maybe the USA and other nations 'unfriendly' to Germany should be less willing to trade oil with me?

    That's all for now
    Ok, we'll try to make Allied oil delivering countries a little less happy to trade with Germany. What do you think, would further increasing the price for oil help?

  13. #1573
    Major PanzerMike's Avatar
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    Oil

    What I do is to make trade deals with virtually all oil producing nations (USSR,USA,Romania,Venezuela,Netherlands). I don't know what trading partners Germany had historically. Did Germany import huge quantitities of oil from the America's for example? I can hardly believe that, but I don't know for sure. Did they even have the ships for that? I hope somebdy knows who the traditional trading partners were. Maybe by restricting the countries that wish to trade (oil) with Germany, it can be prevented that the UK runs out of it. I don't recall that the Allies were ever short of oil.

    Buying oil is pretty cheap IMO. The cash flow of Germany is no problem. Money pours in by the hundreds daily. So sparing a few bucks to buy the black gold is no problem. No idea if the oil is TOO cheap though.
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  14. #1574
    Major PanzerMike's Avatar
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    Interesting

    Read this:

    German oil supplies came from three different sources: imports of crude and finished petroleum products from abroad, production by domestic oil fields, and syntheses of petroleum products from coal.

    In 1938, of the total consumption of 44 million barrels, imports from overseas accounted for 28 million barrels or roughly 60 percent of the total supply. An additional 3.8 million barrels were imported overland from European sources (2.8 million barrels came from Romania alone), and another 3.8 million barrels were derived from domestic oil production. The remainder of the total, 9 million barrels, were produced synthetically. Although the total overseas imports were even higher in 1939 before the onset of the blockade in September (33 million barrels), this high proportion of overseas imports only indicated how precarious the fuel situation would become should Germany be cut off from them.2

    At the outbreak of the war, Germany’s stockpiles of fuel consisted of a total of 15 million barrels. The campaigns in Norway, Holland, Belgium, and France added another 5 million barrels in booty, and imports from the Soviet Union accounted for 4 million barrels in 1940 and 1.6 million barrels in the first half of 1941. Yet a High Command study in May of 1941 noted that with monthly military requirements for 7.25 million barrels and imports and home production of only 5.35 million barrels, German stocks would be exhausted by August 1941. The 26 percent shortfall could only be made up with petroleum from Russia. The need to provide the lacking 1.9 million barrels per month and the urgency to gain possession of the Russian oil fields in the Caucasus mountains, together with Ukrainian grain and Donets coal, were thus prime elements in the German decision to invade the Soviet Union in June 1941.3

    The smallest of the Russian oil fields at Maikop was captured in August 1942, and it was expected that the two remaining fields and refineries in Grozny and Baku also would fall into German hands. Had the German forces been able to capture these fields and hold them, Germany’s petroleum worries would have been over. Prior to the Russian campaign, Maikop produced 19 million barrels annually, Grozny 32 million barrels, and Baku 170 million barrels.4

    Grozny and Baku, however, were never captured, and only Maikop yielded to German exploitation. As was the case in all areas of Russian production, the retreating forces had done a thorough job of destroying or dismantling the usable installations; consequently, the Germans had to start from scratch. In view of past experience with this type of Russian policy, such destruction was expected, and Field Marshal Hermann Göring’s staff had begun making the necessary preparations in advance. But a shortage of transport that was competing with military requirements, a shortage of drill equipment as well as drillers, and the absence of refining capacity at Maikop created such difficulties that when the German forces were compelled to withdraw from Maikop in January 1943 in order to avoid being cut off after the fall of Stalingrad, Germany had failed to obtain a single drop of Caucasian oil. Nevertheless, the Germans were able to extract about 4.7 million barrels from the Soviet Union, a quantity that they would have received anyway under the provisions of the friendship treaty of 1939.5

    Even before the Russian prospects had come to naught, Romania had developed into Germany’s chief overland supplier of oil. From 2.8 million barrels in 1938, Romania’s exports to Germany increased to 13 million barrels by 1941,6 a level that was essentially maintained through 1942 and 1943.7 Although the exports were almost half of Romania’s total production, they were considerably less than the Germans expected. One reason for the shortfall was that the Romanian fields were being depleted. There were other reasons as well why the Romanians failed to increase their shipments. Foremost among these was Germany’s inability to make all of its promised deliveries of coal and other products to Romania. Furthermore, although Romania was allied with Germany, the Romanians wished to husband their country’s most valuable resources.8 Finally, the air raids on the Ploesti oil fields and refineries in August 1943 destroyed 50 percent of the Romanian refinery capacity. Aerial mining of the Danube River constituted an additional serious transportation impediment. Even so, Romanian deliveries amounted to 7 million barrels in the first half of 1944 and were not halted until additional raids on Ploesti had been flown in the late spring and summer of 1944.9

    Even with the addition of the Romanian deliveries, overland oil imports after 1939 could not make up for the loss of overseas shipments. In order to become less dependent on outside sources, the Germans undertook a sizable expansion program of their own meager domestic oil pumping. Before the annexation of Austria in 1938, oil fields in Germany were concentrated in northwestern Germany. After 1938, the Austrian oil fields were available also, and the expansion of crude oil output was chiefly effected there. Primarily as a result of this expansion, Germany’s domestic output of crude oil increased from approximately 3.8 million barrels in 1938 to almost 12 million barrels in 1944.10 Yet the production of domestic crude oil never equaled in any way the levels attained by Germany’s other major supplier of oil, the synthetic fuel plants.

    Inasmuch as natural oil deposits in Germany were so few, long before the war efforts had been made to discover synthetic methods of producing gasoline and oil. In view of the country’s wealth of coal, it was logical to look in this direction for a solution. Both coal and petroleum are mixtures of hydrocarbons, and the problem was how best and most efficiently to isolate these elements from the coal and transmute them into oil. By the time Hitler became chancellor in 1933, four methods of achieving this were either available or in early stages of perfection.

    The source of this info: http://www.airpower.maxwell.af.mil/a...aug/becker.htm
    In the rear with the gear.

  15. #1575
    The biggest problem is probably that you can't limit the ammount one can buy from another country. It seems unlikely a country would sell all their oil just to one other country. In the game however you can do that.
    I guess you could call it an exploit the human player can easily take as an advantage. I am not sure yet how to prevent this. I'll probably try to limit the countries' cash flow a bit and increase the price for oil and decrease the USA's willingness to trade to Germany for reasonable prices. A total embargo is out of the question since that was simply historically not the case.

  16. #1576
    Major PanzerMike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KeldorKatarn
    The biggest problem is probably that you can't limit the ammount one can buy from another country. It seems unlikely a country would sell all their oil just to one other country. In the game however you can do that.
    I guess you could call it an exploit the human player can easily take as an advantage. I am not sure yet how to prevent this. I'll probably try to limit the countries' cash flow a bit and increase the price for oil and decrease the USA's willingness to trade to Germany for reasonable prices. A total embargo is out of the question since that was simply historically not the case.
    But there was a blockade:
    "Although the total overseas imports were even higher in 1939 before the onset of the blockade in September "
    So maybe an overseas country is WILLING to trade, the UK would prevent the resources from reaching Germany. So as long as Britannia rules the waves it will be impossible for Germany to actually receive anything from overseas! Agreed?
    In the rear with the gear.

  17. #1577
    Quote Originally Posted by PanzerMike
    But there was a blockade:
    "Although the total overseas imports were even higher in 1939 before the onset of the blockade in September "
    So maybe an overseas country is WILLING to trade, the UK would prevent the resources from reaching Germany. So as long as Britannia rules the waves it will be impossible for Germany to actually receive anything from overseas! Agreed?
    We will increase the prices further, so that no country is able to buy the entire market. We also will decrease the USA's willingness to trade with Germany.
    About the blockade, that we try to increase anyway.. the ability to block a country. same is true for Germanys uboats trying to blockade the UK.

    So if we get that to work it will improve both those aspects.
    We don't want to put in an automatic ai-embargo for all overseas countries we want the UK to actually block the trades with its navy. Hopefully we'll get that to work. Loki is right now completely redesigning the battle of the atlantic including the navy tech tree. We will combine his efforts with further balancing in the resource amount and prices.
    We probably won't release another version of HIP until that is done in a satisfactory way. If you feel the current version is too unbalanced, feel free to just copy the resource_values.csv and province.csv and the 1936 scenario main file from an older version Those are the only files which we changed to affect the resource amount.
    If you want to deactivate the resource update event, just comment out the line loading resources.txt in the db/events.txt file.

    We are working hard on this and hope to get it right for the next version although it might take a little longer this time until you get a new version.
    So you might get a little time to enjoy the latest version of your choice in a longer game this time Take your time playing as we'll take our time trying to improve things further
    We are of course still open for any further suggestions on how to improve things.

  18. #1578
    Major PanzerMike's Avatar
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    Resources

    Yes, it definately needs work. In my current 0.67 game I have reached august 1940. The UK only has 2K oil left and is loosing 185 oil a day. In a few weeks time they will be out of oil

    Very ahistorical I'm afraid. It should be possible for Germany to stockpile a decent amount of oil before the war starts, but not to buy every barrel of oil on the planet. Once war breaks out, Germany should be largely dependent on oil from the continent (USSR, Romania). They stepped up oil production the best they could, but oil was scarce still. Trying to take the oil in the caucasus was a logical way of thinking, but just beyond the power of the wehrmacht. Germany should have oil troubles later in the war.

    The way it is now, the allied AI can only survive if the human player restricts himself on the oilmarket. Otherwise the UK is doomed

    I am very much looking forward to your next try. Rome was not built in a day
    In the rear with the gear.

  19. #1579
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    Forced Britain into a surrender, and now they have no IC. Absolutely none. I have absolutely no idea how that happened. They have 0/367 for IC. They have plenty of transports and escorts, and lots of resources out there.
    Robert Glaub
    rwglaub@yahoo.com

  20. #1580
    Quote Originally Posted by rwglaub
    Forced Britain into a surrender, and now they have no IC. Absolutely none. I have absolutely no idea how that happened. They have 0/367 for IC. They have plenty of transports and escorts, and lots of resources out there.
    How did you force them into a surrender

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