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I'm sorry I didn't make it last night, I had every intention of coming. I just sort of passed out in my chair, exhausted from 9 hours of shovelling sand, part of a desperate bid to raise enough money to pay for my move across the country for grad school at the end of the month. Real life appears to have caught up with me at last, and I'm forced to resign this game as I can't know that I will be able to make future sessions.

Best of luck to you all :)
 
Nahh, Sweden still owns the sea by a vast amount, & with your leaders in Europe gone, it is only a matter of time before Sweden beats England. My fleet is two times as big, & after I take London it will be game over for England. With Russia winning in the Ottoman Empire, it will not be long before they can help me crush what is left of your armies, no way your getting China cots back. If Spain had been here it would have been even worse for England & OE.
 
Vendere Sacerdo said:
Nahh, Sweden still owns the sea by a vast amount, & with your leaders in Europe gone, it is only a matter of time before Sweden beats England. My fleet is two times as big, & after I take London it will be game over for England. With Russia winning in the Ottoman Empire, it will not be long before they can help me crush what is left of your armies, no way your getting China cots back. If Spain had been here it would have been even worse for England & OE.

Also would be harder if Prussia would be there for Sweden/Russia.

About negociations I am far from defeated this time HG. Your WS is an alliance one, not separately. And I retook Thrace (which means high WS) and still own your Persian provs. This time I'll fight till the end, unless you came with an excellent proposal.
 
Cas,

Your manpower's drained, your cannon in Persia was destroyed, I'm about to retake Thrace, sep. warscore is 51% with my Persian provinces still occupied and Thrace in your hands, and I have 80 MP standing with a good 100-120 raising. This is the end. The only reason I'm willing to make an easy-going proposal now is that the situation in the west isn't opportune for my allies.

Refuse it and I'm going for the jugular.
 
HolisticGod said:
Cas,

Your manpower's drained, your cannon in Persia was destroyed, I'm about to retake Thrace, sep. warscore is 51% with my Persian provinces still occupied and Thrace in your hands, and I have 80 MP standing with a good 100-120 raising. This is the end. The only reason I'm willing to make an easy-going proposal now is that the situation in the west isn't opportune for my allies.

Refuse it and I'm going for the jugular.

I'll be waiting.
 
All,

Good news. John has agreed to take over Spain for our final session(s).
 
AIed??? But FrankXIV said he was going to sub for me. What the hell happened Frank? If you werent gonna do it you shouldve atleast told me so that I could get another sub.
 
Cakravarti said:
AIed??? But FrankXIV said he was going to sub for me. What the hell happened Frank? If you werent gonna do it you shouldve atleast told me so that I could get another sub.

You should ask everyone else about that decision, not me.
 
HolisticGod said:
It's no different than Austerlitz

The French suffered 9,000 casualties and the Russo-Austrian army lost about 25,000 men, killed, wounded or captured

HolisticGod said:
Breitenfeld

Sweden-Saxony: 3,000 dead or wounded.
HRE: 13,000 dead or wounded

HolisticGod said:

Prussia: 6,382 dead or wounded
Austria: 10,000 dead or wounded.



Battle of Bujak (EU2):

Russia: 30,000 (or sth similar)
Ottoman Empire: 170,000 men dead.


You can call this realistic if you NEED so. But if you have any single objective judgement you'll admit that: "leaders are overpowered in EU2". What we'll need will be random leaders or edit DB's file to decrease UBBER-leaders stats for Americans 2.
 
Uh, I didnt know that Fraese couldn't make it last session.. so.. who hosted? so I can post the stats and moreover to check the situation and see if England can last longer :( as it seems that Sweden got us again :(....

Also, thanks HG for getting John (that's King John?) for that perm SPA, and good luck to Fraese on his task for raising money :)

Also, if our allies are up for continuing the war.. I guess England is up also :p well, I mean, this game is not gonna be on for Vicky or something else :p ... hmmm, btw, what year is it?
 
Cakravarti said:
AIed??? But FrankXIV said he was going to sub for me. What the hell happened Frank? If you werent gonna do it you shouldve atleast told me so that I could get another sub.
I guess that he subbed me since Sweden was absent too, and the rest thought that leaving ENG or SWE AI would have been criminal (specially for England ajem ajem lol).... but I hope that next session everyone will be up for it and we can continue the battle :D .. specially you Cak ;)
 
Cakravarti said:
AIed??? But FrankXIV said he was going to sub for me. What the hell happened Frank? If you werent gonna do it you shouldve atleast told me so that I could get another sub.
Cak, it was decided to put Frank in for TG in England, because the English sub, Cannon Fodder, nee Vendere Sacerdo, has become the Swedish perm, arcorelli having had to bow out. As between England and Prussia, the English were more important; Prussia was put off limits along with Spain for the session. Don't be too upset; Prussia ended up getting about 250 ducats in indemnity from England and France by shaking them down in wars they couldn't respond to! :rofl:

Wish we could have had a more full lineup; I agree that the dynamics of the war would have been different if Spain and Prussia had been present, especially since I know some inside info in that regard which shall remain unspoken by agreement. :D

One last note. Would EVERYONE who is going to be present next Wednesday please please please make a strong effort to show no later than 8:55 Eastern, 7:55 Central, 6:55 Mountain or 5:55 Pacific, ready to play? Once again, we ended up wasting almost a full hour without playing because we were waiting for others to show, or people had router troubles, etc. We will never get to the end of this game if we don't put in a full 3 and a half hours per session, as planned. :mad:
 
Caslu,

That's absurd.

If battle casualties in EU II were at that level, wars would never end. You have to consider the scale-and also that defeat in the real world meant heavy desertions, lost supplies, munitions and especially cannon, and tens of thousands of wounded who would never fight again. The point is not the numbers, as it's silly to compare EU II's to history. The point is that these decisive battles were carried by the tactical genius of great Generals, and they determined the course of whole wars and nations.

Also, I notice you completely ignored Jena-Austerdadt, in which Napoleon killed 25,000 Prussians to 5,000 French, most of whom were lost in Ney's mutinous attack on the center, and Davout, outnumbered nearly 3-1 and almost without artillery support killed 13,000 and captured almost all of the King's guns. 25-5 is 5-1, a slightly smaller ratio than Bujak. At Rimnik, Alexander Suvorov, outnumbered 4-1, inflicted 10,000 casualties to 1,000 Russians. That's 10-1.

More importantly, the OE was able to continue fighting after losing Bujak. After Jena, Prussia was badly defeated and lost half its territory. After Austerlitz, Austria was badly defeated and lost any authority over Germany and vast tracts of territory on the Adriatic. After Rimnik, sixty-five of the remaining ninety thousand Turkish troops went home against orders or defected to the Russian Cossacks. The OE lost the war as a result of that battle.

As I've said a half dozen times now, leaders, like manpower, wealth, etc., that the Turks have in abundance, are part of a nation's strengths and weaknesses. You weren't bitching endlessly when you had Selim, Suleyman, et al, and no one with even the slightest grasp of the game could argue Russia's file is superior to the OE's, much less that Russia is in a better position in all the other fields than the Turks. The argument you're making is that you shouldn't have to suffer any disadvantages, and that although it's perfectly possible for this OE, with its defensive depth, MP, money, naval superiority and total control of the Black Sea coastline, to win a defensive war against Russia with Suvorov, it's not your fault in any way, shape or form that it's losing.

Propaganda is understandable, but blatant inaccuracies are not. I've demonstrated that great Generalship was historically more decisive than it is in this game, not less, and that your casualty figures completely miss the point. It started out as a legitimate academic argument-now it's just petulance.

Make up whatever other excuses you like, but let's lay this dead horse to rest, shall we?
 
Um, guys, let's debate random leaders in a thread devoted to that, k? ;)


And I will admit that Caslu didn't do much with Suleiman, mostly because he had an NAP with Austria and he never really had to engage in full out war with Russia in that period. They fought a couple of relatively low-key wars around the north shore of the Black Sea, with, as I recall, no change of territory. Which is not to say that Cas shouldn't have been more active, though I admit I am glad he wasn't. :p
 
If you guys can use anyone for sub purposes next wednesday, i'll do my best to check ICQ and this thread somewhat regularly, so as to ensure my services can be used if needed. I'm using a different EU2 install now for MP, and i can get references attesting to its perfect performance while subbing in another game for 4 hours.
 
Gaius Marius I said:
If you guys can use anyone for sub purposes next wednesday, i'll do my best to check ICQ and this thread somewhat regularly, so as to ensure my services can be used if needed. I'm using a different EU2 install now for MP, and i can get references attesting to its perfect performance while subbing in another game for 4 hours.
Ok Gaius ;).. cool... most likely we'll need a (some) sub (s) ;)

btw, yes, let the discussion about that leaders or random leaders or whatever to ICQ, OTOH, if you can explain me a little bit about those random leaders.. I'm kinda ignorant on that issue.. so in order to put those in a second version, I'll need a better approach ;)
 
HolisticGod said:
Caslu,

That's absurd.

If battle casualties in EU II were at that level, wars would never end. You have to consider the scale-and also that defeat in the real world meant heavy desertions, lost supplies, munitions and especially cannon, and tens of thousands of wounded who would never fight again. The point is not the numbers, as it's silly to compare EU II's to history. The point is that these decisive battles were carried by the tactical genius of great Generals, and they determined the course of whole wars and nations.

Also, I notice you completely ignored Jena-Austerdadt, in which Napoleon killed 25,000 Prussians to 5,000 French, most of whom were lost in Ney's mutinous attack on the center, and Davout, outnumbered nearly 3-1 and almost without artillery support killed 13,000 and captured almost all of the King's guns. 25-5 is 5-1, a slightly smaller ratio than Bujak. At Rimnik, Alexander Suvorov, outnumbered 4-1, inflicted 10,000 casualties to 1,000 Russians. That's 10-1.

More importantly, the OE was able to continue fighting after losing Bujak. After Jena, Prussia was badly defeated and lost half its territory. After Austerlitz, Austria was badly defeated and lost any authority over Germany and vast tracts of territory on the Adriatic. After Rimnik, sixty-five of the remaining ninety thousand Turkish troops went home against orders or defected to the Russian Cossacks. The OE lost the war as a result of that battle.

As I've said a half dozen times now, leaders, like manpower, wealth, etc., that the Turks have in abundance, are part of a nation's strengths and weaknesses. You weren't bitching endlessly when you had Selim, Suleyman, et al, and no one with even the slightest grasp of the game could argue Russia's file is superior to the OE's, much less that Russia is in a better position in all the other fields than the Turks. The argument you're making is that you shouldn't have to suffer any disadvantages, and that although it's perfectly possible for this OE, with its defensive depth, MP, money, naval superiority and total control of the Black Sea coastline, to win a defensive war against Russia with Suvorov, it's not your fault in any way, shape or form that it's losing.

Propaganda is understandable, but blatant inaccuracies are not. I've demonstrated that great Generalship was historically more decisive than it is in this game, not less, and that your casualty figures completely miss the point. It started out as a legitimate academic argument-now it's just petulance.

Make up whatever other excuses you like, but let's lay this dead horse to rest, shall we?

Let end this... it'll lead to nowhere. You'll keep your opnion, very well funded, and I'll keep mine, still very solid in my mind.

BTW, it was never my intention take off or decrease a single peny of your merits to beat me in the first war. In my thoughts that I was invencible with this OE, I completely substimate your Russia and your capacity to afford and manage war.
 
Guys,

I must say im not too happy about what has transpired. The way i see it I had already set Frank up and then the rest of you guys just ad hoc decided to give him another country. While prussia may not be as important as England or Sweden I had already gotten myself a sub its not right that prussia has to pay because other country found itself without a sub. I think i should be entitled to some sort of compensation as a result of these events.

PS: tg could you please have the save up asap. I need to survey the tactical situation before making certain decisions.
 
Yes, that would be fine. It would help if Frank or someone would get the stats posted. :)